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geezah (8 posts)
Feb-03-02, 05:21 PM (EST) "Svante" LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-02 AT 05:22 PM (EST)Svante,
Hi mate. Just writing this to let you know i am behind you 100% with the website thing but i do have to say, your work (mainly the euro containers) have given me (and my friends) hours of enjoyment. You and your work will be sadly missed. Like i always say, it is a few who spoil it for the rest. I am a re-painter (help ianm42 of uktrainsim.com) and i ALWAYS credit the people who have helped me. Even if it was to say good work i would quote them and say thanks for the comments. I have never done Anything with your work other than pull the standard versions behind locos. I was planning to do a few more container companys (for the euro ones you made), but since this has come up i will not do it. Not that i dont want to, its just you have taken your work offline (for all the right reasons i maight add) and i dont want to cause any more trouble. I am the sort of person that likes people to know who has been involved and i ALWAYS ask for concent before uploading ANYTHING. Anyway, I feel that this is getting a bit long so i will sign off now. Anyway, keep up the good work (even if its only for personal use) and take care mate.Andrew Bootles
'Geezah' on uktrainsim.com forums
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Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Svante LawrenceKellie Feb-03-02 1 RE: Svante geezah Feb-03-02 2 RE: Svante 1802ta Feb-03-02 3 RE: Svante geezah Feb-03-02 4 RE: Svante svante Feb-03-02 5 RE: Svante woodman Feb-03-02 9 RE: Svante Starlight Feb-04-02 13 RE: Svante svante Feb-04-02 14 RE: Svante dgauci Feb-03-02 7 RE: Svante dgauci Feb-03-02 6 RE: Svante Rhennar Feb-03-02 8 RE: Svante joha107 Feb-03-02 10 RE: Svante Sleepwalker Feb-04-02 11 RE: Svante geezah Feb-04-02 12 RE: Svante liberal Feb-04-02 15 RE: Svante Kuchinator Feb-04-02 16 RE: Svante dgauci Feb-04-02 17

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LawrenceKellie (1225 posts)
Feb-03-02, 05:25 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Svante" LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-02 AT 05:25 PM (EST)I don't understand your post, specifically, "Just writing this to let you know i am behind you 100% with the website thing."You're behind him "punishing" the entire MSTS community because of a conscious or unconscious act by one person?It's not just Mark who is suffering from this, but you are too? And you're behind Svante doing this to you, too?.
Lawrence
Tapiola now here at Train-Sim.com
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geezah (8 posts)
Feb-03-02, 05:27 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Svante" Good point. I could have wrote it a bit better. But you get the gist of what i mean in the WHOLE message Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
1802ta (228 posts)
Feb-03-02, 05:29 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Svante" I gotta agree with Lawrence. This will affect everyone. If people like Svante are allowed to scare off talented authors because of a minor mistake for wich apology has been given, then there will be a hell of a lot less people who would even dream of making a freeware addon for all, including you, to enjoy. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
geezah (8 posts)
Feb-03-02, 05:34 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Svante" Yes i agree guys (not trying to start a arguement) I have had the same thing happen to me. I made a model for fs98 and it was freeware (bell helicopter) the next thing i know someone is selling it for $5 as his/her own work. True thats the way life is sometimes, but i only put this here because i want to hear from him and only him (note the subject name) one the issue. but then again its a pubic room so feel free to post. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
svante (475 posts)
Feb-03-02, 05:52 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Svante" LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-02 AT 06:17 PM (EST)It was not a minor mistake, it was a major theft. Go make a close inspection of my textures and Mark Toland's and you'll see for yourself. And he did apologize, but it was a half-hearted apology that tried to portray it as a minor thing by saying that he'd only used my textures for spacing. Well it was far more than that.But I bet that not a single individual who has criticized me has even tried to see for himself how much of the texture was really stolen.Take a close look at the picture below. The top half is Mark Toland's bare metal Genstar texture. The bottom half is one of my bare metal APL textures that has been softened slightly. Anyone who still believes that he used my textures just for spacing? I could make my texture a little darker and they would look even more alike...

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woodman (125 posts)
Feb-03-02, 11:17 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Svante" Time to put a sock in it, guy. You've made your point to the point of nausea. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Starlight (120 posts)
Feb-04-02, 12:23 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Svante" Heh, Personally I don't quite understand the problem.Given those two containers look similar; it's no more theft than my using the original lines on mark's sw1500 for my CNW one.
Technically, modifying the texture even in the slightest; renders it a new texture. Therefore, one could do as mark must have :darken the texture, improve on it (mark's look better to me personally) and publish it as new work; only requiring a note about the source for the original tex.However, if they were copied exactly then it'd be theft.Lastly, the whining needs to end. An apology was asked; and one was given. But it would seem from all I've read that the complaintent wants more. Come on now...Quit beating a dead horse. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
svante (475 posts)
Feb-04-02, 12:40 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Svante" >Heh, Personally I don't quite understand
>the problem. I can see that. Th enext time you might want to read the posts to see what it's all about before making your comments...>to me personally) and publish
>it as new work; only
>requiring a note about the
>source for the original tex. But he didn't give me credit for my work (note the source of the origin), which is what this is all about. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dgauci (464 posts)
Feb-03-02, 06:36 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Svante" >I gotta agree with Lawrence. This
>will affect everyone. If people
>like Svante are allowed to
>scare off talented authors because
>of a minor mistake for
>wich apology has been given,
>then there will be a
>hell of a lot less
>people who would even dream
>of making a freeware addon
>for all, including you, to
>enjoy. What about everyone else now trying to scare off a talented author like Svante because he was justly wronged by Mark Toland. I read Marks public apology, and he did try to understate his obvious guilt in the matter. Why should anyone be treated as a "sacred cow" when they are obviously wrong. I don't consider the very obvious lifting of Svante's textures a minor mistake, they are a major component in the models being disputed.These posts would have ended very quickly if the "Community" hadn't started the attacks on Svante.Svante is very blunt I agree, but there has been enough bad behavior and blame on both sides to go around. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dgauci (464 posts)
Feb-03-02, 06:27 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Svante" >You're behind him "punishing" the entire
>MSTS community because of a
>conscious or unconscious act by
>one person? I'm not looking to start a fight with you, but there are two sides to this. Mark Toland was the first to announce that he was pulling his involvement in the Train-sim community, as well as Svante pulling his site. Both are very talented.
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Rhennar (107 posts)
Feb-03-02, 11:03 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Svante" This is just as boring as the other site.
Go to bed.
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joha107 (4 posts)
Feb-03-02, 11:21 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Svante" I would like to announce the beginning of the Anti-Svante Fan Club. Anybody can join so long as they pay me p.s. get a life everybody, your gonna make all the good artists leave with this BS. don't leave mark. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Sleepwalker (39 posts)
Feb-04-02, 06:40 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Svante" Ok my two cents worth (oh and this will probably sound very contradictary)I can see Svante's point of view, His work used by some one else without a mention, but do you hear from KUJU here bitching that no one mentions them when someone re-skins a dash 9 or an Acela or hears them moaning of no mention when some one uses THEIR utilities to create new routes or activities for THEIR routes.Any way Svantes stuff will be sorely missed top kit Geezah R.I.P. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
geezah (8 posts)
Feb-04-02, 11:11 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Svante" Yes i do agree it has gone on too long and is getting stupid, but what i was trying to say was that i understand his p-o-v. like i said before someone sold some of my fs freeware as thier own for $5-10 so i can understand what he means but i think we should all end it now and start a new conversation/arguement about how M$/Kuju have not been involved alot in MSTS. What is done is done, but we can change the future. I am saing no more on the matter. I hope everyone else does the same because, like Marco, This will kill off this great site and i for one dont want to see that happen. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
liberal (52 posts)
Feb-04-02, 01:34 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Svante" We all paid for msts and microsoft's reasons to not push for credits is because skinning or addon based on the original kuju locos only makes msts popular, It ensures that future versions of MSTS will rake in $$$$$.The trend now is use someone elses work as basis for your work and have an amnesia and don't give the original author the credit.When the original author takes the effort to pin point it to the community, one can say very conveniently sorry and things are all rosy again.And BTW if the original author does not put his point the copymaster can claim to be the sole developer for the new work.As a community we keep saying "oh my pls dont leave", "OH WELL DONT BITCH ABOUT IT". I am sure Mark will be now very happy to see people having their work based on his and then have an AMNESIA atack. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Kuchinator (585 posts)
Feb-04-02, 05:45 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Svante" people make mistakes, doesnt seem fair to remove all your stuff just because someone made a mistake. its time for some people here to grow up. this single incident has gone way too far. is it too hard to just forgive and forget? ive seen things like this happen many many times here and in other places, and it never turned into this. lots of people make the mistake of changing a texture and not realizing its just an edited version of someone elses work and or forgetting to put the proper credit in the readme, and the 2 people are able to resolve the problem fairly and peacefully without all this. from what i see in the 2 textures, it would be very easy to just use the ribs as a template and fill in the rest with a straight gray and apply half a dozen filters and have it coming out nearly identical to the original. i dont know if this how it happened, but its very easy and possible to do. seems kind of selfish pulling everything due to 1 incident, but if thats what you want to do then so be it. just my opinion.
-Christopher-

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dgauci (464 posts)
Feb-04-02, 11:06 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Svante" >people make mistakes, doesnt seem fair to remove all your stuff just because someone made a mistake. its time for some
>people here to grow up. this single incident has gone
>way too far. That's the understatement of the year from this community, for defending Svante's work we got the full scorched earth treatment. Now that the community realizes that they cut off their noses to spite their faces, now the statement "someone made a mistake". Yes, quite a few regular posters on this board do need to grow up and chill out. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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