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svante (327 posts)
Jan-01-02, 02:34 PM (EST) "Articulated well cars" I've had a number of requests for articulated 3-car and 5-car sets of well cars so I thought I'd give it a try. And the pictures show what I've come up with. What you see are 3-car and 5-car articulated ribside well cars (count the number of trucks in the pictures...) where the trucks work/turn just the way they should and that could be made to carry any and all containers I've made. The only problems with them are a) it would be a logistical nightmare to make them in different liveries and with different loads, and b) the average MSTS user can't handle them since the sets are made up of four different cars that have to be put together in a specific order in the consist editor (A-B-C for the 3-car sets and A-B-D-B-C for the 5-car sets).They will not be available for download for quite a while, so there's no use bugging me about it, because I need to make new textures for them and I also have to fix the couplers so they use CouplerUniqueType and can't be connected to anything else because that would look real odd. Plus there's a lot of the standalone well cars waiting to be uploaded.



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Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Articulated well cars Splatter Jan-01-02 1 RE: Articulated well cars wbgx Jan-01-02 2 RE: Articulated well cars svante Jan-01-02 3 RE: Articulated well cars jeffmorris Jan-01-02 4 RE: Articulated well cars shadowr434 Jan-01-02 5 RE: Articulated well cars Macster Jan-01-02 6 RE: Articulated well cars CPR_Malice_96th Jan-01-02 7 RE: Articulated well cars CNBALA Jan-01-02 8 RE: Articulated well cars rdamurphy Jan-02-02 10 RE: Articulated well cars svante Jan-02-02 14 RE: Articulated well cars jeffmorris Jan-02-02 15 RE: Articulated well cars svante Jan-02-02 16 RE: Articulated well cars henry3 Jan-03-02 20 RE: Articulated well cars svante Jan-03-02 21 RE: Articulated well cars CPrailman Jan-02-02 11 RE: Articulated well cars svante Jan-02-02 13 RE: Articulated well cars CPrailman Jan-01-02 9 RE: Articulated well cars ace6879 Jan-02-02 12 RE: Articulated well cars Starlight Jan-02-02 17 RE: Articulated well cars svante Jan-03-02 19 RE: Articulated well cars svante Jan-03-02 18 RE: Articulated well cars sd90mac Jan-03-02 22 RE: Articulated well cars svante Jan-04-02 24 RE: Articulated well cars svante Jan-04-02 25 RE: Articulated well cars svante Jan-04-02 26 RE: Articulated well cars sd90mac Jan-04-02 27 RE: Articulated well cars sixman Jan-04-02 28 RE: Articulated well cars ace6879 Jan-04-02 23

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Splatter (136 posts)
Jan-01-02, 03:24 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Articulated well cars" Very,very impressive work to say the least.I got your new smoothsides today and they are top notch.Keep up the outstanding work,it is greatly appreciated Freddie A. Huff
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wbgx (71 posts)
Jan-01-02, 03:50 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Articulated well cars" Once again you have elevated the notch for the rest of us. Great job!!Boomer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
svante (327 posts)
Jan-01-02, 03:56 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Articulated well cars" Two 3-car sets on a road test... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (428 posts)
Jan-01-02, 06:29 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Articulated well cars" I know that NYC BMT subway system had articulated subway cars built between 1925 and 1940. The BMT Triplex and (I think) Multi-Section cars were in regular passenger service. The Green Hornet, stainless steel Zephyer, and Bluebird trains were experimental trains. The Bluebird trains were based on PCC streetcar design. How can I create an articulated subway train using TSM? Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
shadowr434 (55 posts)
Jan-01-02, 09:50 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Articulated well cars" great job as always,if you get them to work to the point that the rest of us can understand then perhaps you could tackle the articulated autoracks.if anyone could you could.anyway again great job. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Macster (285 posts)
Jan-01-02, 10:02 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Articulated well cars" Hey Svante,You probably might have already known this, but the articulated well cars are lettered like this,A - Front Well Car - Coupler
E - First Well Car - Bogie
D - Second Well Car - Bogie
C - Third Well - Bogie
B - Rear Well Car - CouplerWhy they do it like this, I haven't got the slightest idea, but each Double Stack train I have seen has them lettered like that. (shrugs)
Brian E. Bundridge
BNSF Scenic Subdivision MP 1.77
Seattle, Washington Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CPR_Malice_96th (414 posts)
Jan-01-02, 10:05 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Articulated well cars" Oh my God !!Very nice work !!Tim Kent
CPR_Malice
Winnipeg, Canada Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CNBALA (21 posts)
Jan-01-02, 10:09 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Articulated well cars" One question to ask about three or five car sets with the TTX numbering. I did not have any idea at all about the numbering of the cars. For example: with DTTX 27000 is only one car attached to three or five car set or all the same numbers with DTTX 27000 in three or five car set. Please explain about this. I should have known better about this but got confused about this. ThankyouCNBALA Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rdamurphy (186 posts)
Jan-02-02, 00:00 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Articulated well cars" This goes back to railroad rules which are outdated. There are two ends to ANY rail car, the A end and the B end. What's the difference? The B end has the Brake Wheel! So, you have to have an A end and a B end on the articulated cars, also. So, they took the B car out, stuck it on the end and then called it a day. Just as a suggestion, don't letter them, make the C, D, E sections identical, make the A with a coupler and the B with a coupler and two trucks, then we could mix and match the C, D, and E sections to get lots of different container combinations, and I don't think too many people would notice the tiny abcde lettering as being MIA...Rob Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
svante (327 posts)
Jan-02-02, 04:04 AM (EST) 14. "RE: Articulated well cars" >Just as a suggestion, don't letter
>them, make the C, D,
>E sections identical, make the
>A with a coupler and
>the B with a coupler
>and two trucks, then we
>could mix and match the
>C, D, and E sections
>to get lots of different
>container combinations, and I don't
>think too many people would
>notice the tiny abcde lettering
>as being MIA... It can't be done that way because of restrictions in MSTS. The front car has one real truck and one invisible phoney truck (which is needed for two reasons, one being to make the car symmetrical, that is the same distance to both ends from the centre of the car, the other being that the phoney truck makes the car behave the way it should, and follow the tracks properly). The center cars also have one real truck and one phoney, but there are two different center cars, with vastly different lengths (not the length of the visible shape, that one is the same for both of the middle car types, but the length given in the wag-file and the sd-file) so that the articulated sets look right and ride right. And the rear car has a brake wheel and two real trucks. In the game the phoney invisible trucks are superimposed on real trucks and they ride together resulting in the proper behaviour of the cars and the correct visual appearance. The cars use unique couplers which can only be connected to other articulated well cars, and cannot be uncoupled in the game (except for the end cars which have one real ordinary coupler each. So when doing some switching only complete 3-car and 5-car sets can be switched, not individual cars, just like in real life. The unique coupler "trick" could also be used on my standalone cars in order to simulate sets of drawbar connected well cars that can only be switched in complete sets. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (428 posts)
Jan-02-02, 12:14 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Articulated well cars" How can you create "invisible" phony trucks? Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
svante (327 posts)
Jan-02-02, 12:33 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Articulated well cars" By declaring the material as TransNorm and texturing them with a transparency (using the alpha channel of the ace file). They're there but you can't see them, like the Invisible Man.So the sim thinks that each of the cars has two trucks, and moves them accordingly, but you only see one of the trucks. I've done it this way since it seems to me to be the best way to make everything move and act the way it should. If anyone feels like testing the articulated well cars there's a 5-car set painted as APL Stacktrain and carrying an assortment of APL containers available for download from http://www.wendel.nu/msts/. But don't forget to read the "readme" file in the pack. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
henry3 (421 posts)
Jan-03-02, 11:56 AM (EST) 20. "RE: Articulated well cars" LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-02 AT 11:57 AM (EST)Svante,Downloaded the APL set and took a spin on the Flatlands route late last night. The cars looked great and handled well. I didn't have any problems with them at all.I'll probably get a chance to run them on the PO&N or EMRR later this week. I'll let you know if I see anything out of the ordinary.Thanks for the new cars!HenryBTW, is this a good time to mention the original Southern Pacific "bulkhead" stack cars? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
svante (327 posts)
Jan-03-02, 12:51 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Articulated well cars" >BTW, is this a good time
>to mention the original Southern
>Pacific "bulkhead" stack cars? No. I'm going to finish the remaining paperwork (wag-files and sd-files mostly) for my remaining standalone well cars and do a few sets of articulateds (TTX with Oriental containers, TTX with European containers and a couple of different sets of TTX with US/Canadian containers).After that I'll do some repainting (finishing the SD-45s and a few SD-70M) and a loco or two. So there's no time for any bulkhead stack cars. Besides I'm sort of fed up with stack cars and containers by now... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CPrailman (300 posts)
Jan-02-02, 00:03 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Articulated well cars" LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-02 AT 00:04 AM (EST)Macster, wouldn't it be easier like this....Or is this what you mean... I am not sure.

I was thinking about that one.
Thanks,
CPrailman
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svante (327 posts)
Jan-02-02, 03:51 AM (EST) 13. "RE: Articulated well cars" >Hey Svante,
>
>You probably might have already known
>this, but the articulated well
>cars are lettered like this,
>
>
>A - Front Well Car - Coupler
>E - First Well Car - Bogie
>D - Second Well Car - Bogie
>C - Third Well - Bogie
>B - Rear Well Car - Coupler
>
>Why they do it like this,
>I haven't got the slightest
>idea, but each Double Stack
>train I have seen has
>them lettered like that. (shrugs) I've noticed that they're lettered like that. The A-B-C and A-B-D-B-C that I wrote only indicates in which order the models that I've made should be connected to each other in order to look right.One of the problems with the articulateds as compared with my standalone well cars is that I have to make all new textures since the articulateds need different left and right sides, the standalones use the same texture for both the left and the right side. So new textures and new texture mapping. The 3D-shapes for the four cars used by the articulateds have been "kit-bashed" from my standalone ribside (by editing points) so once I figured out the theories behind MSTS and articulateds it only took a couple of hours or so to make those.But I have a few hundred standalone well cars to make and upload first.I might make a single articulated set, probably a 5-car TTX set with "K" Line containers (both red and bare metal), to still the hunger of those craving articulateds. Such a set could, if nothing out of the ordinary happens, be ready for download in about a week or so. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
CPrailman (300 posts)
Jan-01-02, 11:50 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Articulated well cars" Svante! Svante! Svante!~~~~~~The crowd goes wild!!!
YAY! Just what I prayed for.
Thanks and Happy New Year,
CPrailman
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ace6879 (517 posts)
Jan-02-02, 01:07 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Articulated well cars" Hi All,
Just curious, On the upgraded ribsides, did anyone notice the sideframes on the trucks are friction bearing instead of rollerbearings?
Did Svante make a mistake or is it just me?? Did I miss something here? Not complaining, just wondering!!! ThanksKelley Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Starlight (35 posts)
Jan-02-02, 08:19 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Articulated well cars" hmm..slightly off topic here, but could someone consider creating some of those odd ttx cars where you have two cars connected by drawbar, and the trailers are actually bridging the gap?

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svante (327 posts)
Jan-03-02, 08:32 AM (EST) 19. "RE: Articulated well cars" >Did Svante make a mistake or
>is it just me?? Did
>I miss something here?Neither. I know it's a Bettendorf but I like the texture. So live with it or make a better car yourself.... But it could have been worse, it could've been an arch bar. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
svante (327 posts)
Jan-03-02, 08:17 AM (EST) 18. "RE: Articulated well cars" Coming soon:




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sd90mac (85 posts)
Jan-03-02, 09:56 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Articulated well cars" Svante:One small bug in your new articulated cars. The wag files point to file names with a "K" as the last letter.TAP
Locomotive Engineer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
svante (327 posts)
Jan-04-02, 02:49 AM (EST) 24. "RE: Articulated well cars" In what way is that a bug? The cars work, you can make consists of them in both the standard consist editor and in ConBuilder (which is why the K is there, to easily identify the cars by name in ConBuilder), and AFAIK they run without any glitch in the simulation. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
svante (327 posts)
Jan-04-02, 03:07 AM (EST) 25. "RE: Articulated well cars" Just proving that the cars work "as advertised" and that the way they're named is no bug:
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svante (327 posts)
Jan-04-02, 09:40 AM (EST) 26. "RE: Articulated well cars" Even though I have no problems with the TTX set others might get error messages about missing wag-files. So I have made a set of new sd- and wag-files and made it available as a fix from my web page. The new files have been included in the complete set of K-Line TTX cars, so the fix should only be downloaded and applied by those who have previously downloaded the cars and who get error messages.http://www.wendel.nu/msts/ Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sd90mac (85 posts)
Jan-04-02, 06:00 PM (EST) 27. "RE: Articulated well cars" Svante:Let me further clarify. After installing your TTX K Line articulated cars and creating a consist with the Activity Editor, the editor would not save the consist because it would report missing wag files. I then ran the Consist Builder program and checked for consist errors and on my consist using your cars it would report missing wag files.Upon reviewing the wag files here is what I found. Your wag files are named SW-art5ttx1.wag, SW-art5ttx2.wag, etc. But the wag files themselves have the following lines: (Note: I have removed the brackets that surround the SW in this message becasue the forum system erases what is in between the brackets thinking they are html commands. The brackets are there in your files).Wagon ( SW-art5ttx1K
comment ( parts of .wag-file modified by Bob Boudoin )
Type ( Freight )
name ( "SW TTX K-Line #1 articulated" )
WagonShape ( SW-art5ttx1.s )
Size ( 3.04m 6.05m 20.76m)
comment( 24.0 empty, 100.0 full )Notice on the very first line the file has a "K" as the last letter. Only when I changed the actual wag file names to include the "K" was I able to use the consist I created without any errors. For example the file is now named SW-art5ttx1k.wag. And after that change everything works fine.If your naming system works for some and not others then I'm stumped.Anyway like I said I have them working and I noticed your fix mentioned above so I just wanted to clarify what was happening.Thanks for the great cars that you have created!TAP
Locomotive Engineer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sixman (66 posts)
Jan-04-02, 08:33 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Articulated well cars" Don;t know why you had probles because the consist editor does not look at the name on the 'WAGON (...' line of the trainset. The important names are the ones preceding the .s name and the actual file and folder names. Good to hear you got them working. I tried out a long string of cars (12 five platform sets) on the Tehachapi Route, and they looked great.Svante, thanks for the great looking cars. You are a ture artist when it comes to making these. I need to learn your secrets so I can make my own in the future. BTW, what programs do you use to create the .ace and .s files? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ace6879 (517 posts)
Jan-04-02, 00:24 AM (EST) 23. "RE: Articulated well cars" Svante,
I am glad to see you do the K line. The UP-CNW-CR use to run a train called "the land bridge" several years ago. With these containers, I can duplicate the train now!!! Thanks!!!Kelley

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