MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !

Hi everybody !The MARIAS-KOOTENAI is now available in the File Library:mp3k-1.zip to mp3k-5.zip !!!Those who have not heard of it before can view it's Picture Gallery at:www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/mp3k-galleryThere is also a hefty 100 Mb mp3kcons.zip containing improved Rolling Stock for those with BROADBAND / DSL and less fortunate can get it in three smaller Zips from:www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/downloads/mp3k-trains-1.zip
www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/downloads/mp3k-trains-2.zip
www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/downloads/mp3k-trains-3.zipThey are direct replacements for existing MSTS default items and a couple of Freeware ones, having had their physics updated and wheels made to run of top of rails ! They also contain my favourite Route Inspection greyhound, the 250+ mph SANTA FE EXPRESS, made for by Kurt Kaminer: I am also going to upload my growing selection of 55 Trackbed and Rails Textures AcleanTrack1 & 2 tracks.zip shortly, some pictured below which should help to give your Routes a new lease of live. Hope your are going to have lots of FUN with all this. Take Care, O t t o.

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MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now ! [View All], OTTODAD, 11:29 AM, Oct-17-04, (0) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, USRailFan, Oct-17-04, 12:05 PM, (1) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, HarleyMan, Oct-17-04, 12:16 PM, (2) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, OTTODAD, Oct-17-04, 12:20 PM, (3) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, Claude350, Oct-17-04, 12:36 PM, (4) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, OTTODAD, Oct-17-04, 03:14 PM, (7) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, cbblackard, Oct-17-04, 12:54 PM, (5) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, HarleyMan, Oct-17-04, 01:03 PM, (6) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, yulbrynner, Oct-17-04, 03:45 PM, (8) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, cnw8717, Oct-17-04, 04:12 PM, (9) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, OTTODAD, Oct-17-04, 04:33 PM, (11) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, OTTODAD, Oct-17-04, 04:21 PM, (10) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, yulbrynner, Oct-17-04, 04:45 PM, (12) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, HarleyMan, Oct-17-04, 07:03 PM, (13) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, yulbrynner, Oct-17-04, 07:20 PM, (14) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, OTTODAD, Oct-17-04, 07:45 PM, (15) My Review of the route..., Macster, Oct-17-04, 08:05 PM, (17) RE: My Review of the route..., seern, Oct-17-04, 09:08 PM, (20) RE: My Review of the route..., OTTODAD, Oct-17-04, 09:56 PM, (21) RE: My Review of the route..., SP_Frank, Oct-17-04, 10:39 PM, (23) RE: My Review of the route..., Macster, Oct-17-04, 11:00 PM, (24) RE: My Review of the route..., seern, Oct-18-04, 01:42 AM, (27) RE: My Review of the route..., OTTODAD, Oct-18-04, 06:48 AM, (29) RE: My Review of the route..., USRailFan, Oct-18-04, 04:46 AM, (28) RE: My Review of the route..., OTTODAD, Oct-18-04, 06:59 AM, (30) RE: My Review of the route..., rd4man, Oct-18-04, 06:05 PM, (45) RE: My Review of the route..., OTTODAD, Oct-18-04, 06:38 PM, (48) RE: My Review of the route..., rd4man, Oct-18-04, 09:14 PM, (53) RE: My Review of the route..., OTTODAD, Oct-19-04, 07:05 AM, (62) RE: My Review of the route..., rd4man, Oct-19-04, 03:25 PM, (68) RE: My Review of the route..., Curious142, Oct-19-04, 06:09 PM, (75) RE: My Review of the route..., USRailFan, Oct-19-04, 04:23 AM, (61) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, rd4man, Oct-17-04, 07:57 PM, (16) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, OTTODAD, Oct-17-04, 08:10 PM, (18) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, rd4man, Oct-17-04, 08:27 PM, (19) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, yulbrynner, Oct-17-04, 09:57 PM, (22) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, jamesmoore, Oct-17-04, 11:14 PM, (25) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, Claude350, Oct-17-04, 11:37 PM, (26) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, john finney, Oct-18-04, 10:06 AM, (31) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, Macster, Oct-18-04, 12:02 PM, (32) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, OTTODAD, Oct-18-04, 12:28 PM, (33) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, dcushing, Oct-18-04, 12:37 PM, (34) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, USRailFan, Oct-18-04, 01:07 PM, (36) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, OTTODAD, Oct-18-04, 03:19 PM, (39) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, USRailFan, Oct-18-04, 04:38 PM, (42) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, OTTODAD, Oct-18-04, 06:10 PM, (47) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, USRailFan, Oct-19-04, 04:15 AM, (60) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, OTTODAD, Oct-18-04, 06:03 PM, (44) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, Curious142, Oct-18-04, 09:58 PM, (54) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, OTTODAD, Oct-19-04, 07:15 AM, (63) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, frankoburns, Oct-18-04, 01:04 PM, (35) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, SP_Frank, Oct-18-04, 01:10 PM, (37) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, wiscentral, Oct-18-04, 02:47 PM, (38) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, OTTODAD, Oct-18-04, 03:45 PM, (40) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, Emu Farmer, Oct-19-04, 00:03 AM, (57) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, Emu Farmer, Oct-19-04, 00:05 AM, (58) RE: MARIAS-KOOTENAI Route Available Now !, OTTODAD, Oct-19-04, 07:20 AM, (64) Xtracks installed after running the MP3K Installme.bat, OTTODAD, Oct-18-04, 04:03 PM, (41) RE: Xtracks installed after running the MP3K Installme., dcushing, Oct-18-04, 05:11 PM, (43) RE: Xtracks installed after running the MP3K Installme., OTTODAD, Oct-18-04, 06:08 PM, (46) RE: Xtracks installed after running the MP3K Installme., john finney, Oct-18-04, 07:03 PM, (49) Marias-Kootenai, soo8513, Oct-18-04, 07:26 PM, (50) RE: Marias-Kootenai, Emu Farmer, Oct-18-04, 07:48 PM, (51) RE: Marias-Kootenai, john finney, Oct-18-04, 07:58 PM, (52) RE: Marias-Kootenai, soo8513, Oct-18-04, 10:32 PM, (55) RE: Marias-Kootenai, Emu Farmer, Oct-18-04, 11:34 PM, (56) RE: Marias-Kootenai, Archer01, Oct-19-04, 02:33 AM, (59) RE: Marias-Kootenai, OTTODAD, Oct-19-04, 07:40 AM, (65) RE: Marias-Kootenai, OTTODAD, Oct-19-04, 07:51 AM, (66) ATTENTION OTTO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, chucksc, Oct-19-04, 12:28 PM, (67) RE: ATTENTION OTTO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, CPR_Malice_96th, Oct-19-04, 03:45 PM, (69) RE: ATTENTION OTTO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, OTTODAD, Oct-19-04, 04:55 PM, (70) RE: ATTENTION OTTO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, ssw, Oct-19-04, 04:59 PM, (71) RE: ATTENTION OTTO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, OTTODAD, Oct-19-04, 05:13 PM, (72) RE: ATTENTION OTTO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, pwillard, Oct-19-04, 05:34 PM, (73) RE: ATTENTION OTTO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, OTTODAD, Oct-19-04, 06:18 PM, (76) RE: ATTENTION OTTO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, chucksc, Oct-19-04, 05:35 PM, (74) RE: ATTENTION OTTO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, OTTODAD, Oct-19-04, 06:19 PM, (77) MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, OTTODAD, Oct-19-04, 06:41 PM, (78) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, SP_Frank, Oct-19-04, 07:00 PM, (79) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, OTTODAD, Oct-19-04, 07:08 PM, (80) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, ssw, Oct-19-04, 07:10 PM, (81) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, Macster, Oct-19-04, 07:15 PM, (82) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, kmanc21, Oct-19-04, 07:46 PM, (83) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, downside, Oct-20-04, 04:37 AM, (102) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, chucksc, Oct-20-04, 07:19 AM, (103) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, Curious142, Oct-19-04, 07:53 PM, (84) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, CPR_Malice_96th, Oct-19-04, 08:24 PM, (85) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, Curious142, Oct-19-04, 09:03 PM, (86) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, SP6307, Oct-19-04, 09:24 PM, (87) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, Claude350, Oct-19-04, 09:33 PM, (88) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, SP6307, Oct-19-04, 09:34 PM, (89) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, Macster, Oct-19-04, 09:34 PM, (90) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, sinclair97, Oct-19-04, 09:41 PM, (92) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, SP9800, Oct-19-04, 10:00 PM, (95) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, Curious142, Oct-19-04, 10:44 PM, (97) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, cnw8717, Oct-19-04, 09:36 PM, (91) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, Claude350, Oct-19-04, 09:44 PM, (93) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, drjoe, Oct-19-04, 09:55 PM, (94) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, SP6307, Oct-19-04, 10:07 PM, (96) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, Emu Farmer, Oct-19-04, 11:31 PM, (98) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, CPR_Malice_96th, Oct-19-04, 11:55 PM, (99) RE: MP3K Rolling Stock Withdrawn !!!, Dash9_Man, Oct-20-04, 00:22 AM, (100) RE: WE HAVE AN INTRUDER IN OUR MIDST, sinclair97, Oct-20-04, 01:00 AM, (101)

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Doesn't look like the file library is gonna be updated today

Leiv Eiriksson was first - Christoffer Columbus used a Viking map!

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It's there just do a Seacrh for Marias Kootenai under Routes I looked for just Marias.Now I am donwloading 1 Of 5

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You can also find it by putting mp3k*.* into the File Library "Search by File Name" box.O t t o

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Are the new consist files required to run the route?Claude Debnam NS Piedmont Division Raleigh East

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Hi Claude !The included CONSISTS files are not required and will do no harm being copied into your TRAINS\CONSISTS folder. Any of your's will do in EXPLORE Mode.They are my idea of creating Consists, using the MSTS default Rolling Stock everybody has, which has been improved by me in the separate mp3kcons.zip download.Have Fun, O t t o.

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Looks like the "All Nodes Currently Busy" message is going to be displayed a lot the next few days! But, after 30 tries, I'm in and am downloading now!Can't wait to check this out!Thanks, Otto.CBB

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I'm still on 1 Of 5,now and I was going to have all 5 Downloads going at once. But my Internet guy say's it is better to do one by one Then having all going at same time.Ya I Cannot Wait till I ahve up and Running.

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I tried more than 50 times, and I cannot login so far.
Maybe before the 100 I can do it.This happens often whenever there's a new route uploaded to the libraries, for the files are very large, and people must spend a longer time to download.Regards...

Eduardo

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Why in this world would you upgrade default rolling stock. With 3 years of add-ons youd think everyone would be past using default crap.

Brock Hansen

TKW Paint Shop

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-04 AT 04:37 PM (EDT)

Brock, this Rolling Stock I am referring to is not the 3 years old MSTS "Crap" default any more and don't think has an equal considering their present appearance ! The US2 Freight waggons have since been improved by ENOCELL, OKRASA and more by myself, them and the MSTS Locos and some included Freeware ones having had their Coupler Physics improved, Bounding Boxes raised and all wheels made to run on top of the rails, not floating above or sinking into them, sadly lacking with most of the Add-Ons I have aquired over the years !O t t o

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Hi Eduardo !Try again after our American friends have gone to bed ! B.t.w., has my test overland mail CD arrived yet ? COPY the Ttype.dat and the MSTS SOUND folder from it after you have installed the downloaded MP3K version ! Take Care, O t t o.

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Hi, Otto:By any strange reason, I didn't receive yet your CD.
It should be arriving this week; but I find it strange to be delayed.
I'm waiting for it; and I'm worried.What shall I do about the versions?
Download it all from the libraries?
Or may I use the testing version when it comes?.Anyway I'm downloading now.I'll wait for your news...

Eduardo

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Well looks like it is gonna be a long night at the File Section. I have been trying since 2:00pm,now it is 4:10pm.I dout I'll be gettin in tonight.But keep on trying eventually you all will get in sooner or later.Looking forward to the Route once I get it Installed.But I got the 1st folder download.

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Yes, the same do I:I just downloaded the first Zip.
I could do it very fast, but when I had to re-login, I had to stop and wait a long time;...
We'll have to wait until they're all sleeping.
But I'm afraid we will all do the same.After all, we shouldn't hurry too much.
Let's think how many hours we will spend playing, exploring, and creating activities.Tomorrow we'll be happy enjoying Frank's & Otto's work.Greetings

Eduardo

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Hi Eduardo !You really don't need my CD any more to run the MARIAS-KOOTENAI once you got all the Zips downloaded and the route is installed.But there are one or two goodies on it I shall tell you more about after you have E-Mailed me that the MP3K is up and running and you have received the CD.Overland Mail, in your case over the sea, could take weeks to get to you if it is on a ship. Just thought I would try sending it that way to find out how long it would take. Air-Mail from now on ! Talk to you later, O t t o.

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Well it took 3 hours to download and install. I wanted to see if they took any of funnelfan (Ted Curphey) and my advice on trackwork and such...They didn't.First I will start off that it is a good route, if your not looking for the actual prototypical route. This is a good rendition of it, but it could have been so much better if the time was given. The first thing I noticed that the signals are in KM instead of miles.. this is the US, not the UK Starting off at Athol, ID, the track to a good start. 2MT CTC from Athol to Cocolalla.. then this is when things started to go wrong.West Algoma and East Algoma sidings are incorrect.. by saying incorrect, it should be 2MT CTC, no sidings up until about 0.4 miles before the big bridge across the lake. There is a brief section of single track mainline through Cocolalla...Coming into Sandpoint, the bridge is incorrect, though at first I thought it was right until I saw the other bridges. If the first bridge was there and the rest were girders it would have been correct. Sandpoint Jct. just isn't there. There is no MRL connection, there is no bridge across the river, there is no diamond for the UP right after the mission bridge. The station is also gone and replaced by a wayward platform that looks more like a japanese platform. The station in Whitefish 3 is prototypical, however the tracks are off yet. *I will be fixing that here shortly*Boyer is spelled Boyol? And there is also a town called Westword that is before or after Cocolalla.. never heard of that town whatsoever in my 5 times being out there in person...Out of all the time and effort spent into this route, combaining, etc. There Is STILL no passenger speed limits on this route!! I will have a full review in the next couple of days on my website with pictures from the real deal and comparing WF3 and WF/Marias.Till then...

______________________

http://Evergreentracks.tk

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Install went without a hitch. I have to agree with Macster on some detail problems. Coming out of Athol there is a signal right in the middle of the road. I initially thought that the mp were too close together until I noticed its was km not miles. The trains speed in the track monitor is mph though. Ottodad had said earlier it was a rendition and not a prototypical route. Well as I explore on, will see.

Sharon Evans
Glen Allen, Virginia
Activities are what makes MSTS run.

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I shall have words with the guy who was supposed to fix things like this, me ! Is this the signal ? Lets hope that some of the passing traffic moves is off the road ! As for being an accurate replica of the real Whitefish to Athol route, don't waste your time proving it. We never pretended it to be "Prototypical" and had more fun beating all the challenges an extension to an existing route creates than wasting a lot more man hours on satisfying the in the know purists ! The average user would not know the difference anyway and is more concerned with getting a route which installs easily, is enjoyable to drive in and does not fall over now and then.I think we have achieved that ! And don't forget to check out the seasonal environments. O t t o

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>The average user would not know the difference anyway and is
>more concerned with getting a route which installs easily,
>is enjoyable to drive in and does not fall over now and
>then.
>
>I think we have achieved that ! And don't forget to check
>out the seasonal environments.
>
>O t t o
You certainly have. I ran a few miles east from Athol tonite and it runs well, installed without and hitch and I thank you. So the route may have a few minor issues here and there, it's still a handsome job. Thanks to everyone involved in its development.

_______________________________
Unless you're the leading dog, the view is always the same.

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Yeah I realized that after seeing Whitefish yard....I'm not gonna bothering doing a review on it.... Those that do download it i'm sure will enjoy it.. those looking for a prototypical route would probably go for WF3.

______________________

http://Evergreentracks.tk

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Ottodad, That is it. Also the next crossing the gates didn't drop. Another issue I have as an activity builder, the sidings don't have the names showing. This makes it very hard to set up switching activities. It is a simple fix to set the names up in the AE then issue a patch to set them in place.

Sharon Evans
Glen Allen, Virginia
Activities are what makes MSTS run.

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Hi Sharon !As you know, making changes to interactive track objects after a route has more or less been completed is a big NO NO ! Just touching some of the tracks to level the terrain underneath them got me numerous "Send...." and had to resort to using short straights next to the tracks to do it with.Not sure how to get new Siding names into the AE now and will ask Frank Carver about that. Especially for the by me extended 8 WYEs, I thought would also be ideal to spawn AI Traffic from and end in them.Frank also mentioned before that some of the Road Level Crossings seem to have a mind of their own, not dropping their gates for an approaching train. There again this is something which can not be corrected now and am not looking forward to some compensation claims from vehicle drivers getting hit by trains ! But otherwise I hope that all who have downloaded the MP3K enjoy riding their trains on it and as soon as Activities for it surface them as well !!! Take Care, O t t o.

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In real-life, there'd also be modern three-light signals on the entire stretch, I think? And conrete ties in stead of wooden...Other than that, the scenery looks nice.. And I think Whitefish is now at least in roughly the correct location geographically?

Leiv Eiriksson was first - Christoffer Columbus used a Viking map!

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I have just uploaded my selection of 55 Trackbeds and Rails textures Acleantrack1 and 2 to the File Library: tracks.zip. These are just some of them:There are a number of Concrete ties options in it, some with a Snow version, users of the route could replace the existing with.I knew from a recent article I read somewhere that the real MARIAS route, like many other main line ones, had it's tracks modernised with welded rails and concrete sleepers but is seems that many prefer the appearance of wooden ties ?Have Fun with the Route, I am ! O t t o

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OTTO:Having a great time trying out your really nice roadbeds/tracks. Having my routes in individual folders allows me to have different roadbeds/rails on different routes. Thank you for a fine job. One question: it appears as tho my "wavy line" thingie is somewhat worse now. I'm sure I don't have the right switch in my shortcuts. I cannot find them. Could you give me the proper switch to fix the anti-aliasing, etc?Thanx-

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It does not matter where you got your routes, in the default MSTS ROUTES folder or in individual MSTS MINI routes folders. Each Route's TEXTURES folder has it's own Acleantrack files, not interfering with those in other Routes and you can change them daily like your shirts to make your routes look different ! Here is my Desktop shortcut Target Line:"C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Train Simulator\train.exe" /anisotropicthe " quotes are required.For a MINI ROUTE like the MARIAS-KOOTENAI it could look like this:G:\MP3K\train.exe /anisotropicThis time " quotation marks are not required there not being any blank spaces in the Folder Names !AntiAliasing I do not use because my RAILDRIVER does not like it !It also depends on your type of Graphics Card and it's Advanced Properties Anisotropic settings. My nVIDIA TI-4600 with the 30.82 driver uses 8x and I get no "Moire" shimmering no matter what the ties spacings or textures are. Any higher and menus text starts getting fuzzy !Also depends on the type and make of Graphics Card installed and your monitor's and MSTS Options Display resolution. I use 1024 X 768 for both.A lot of trial and error adjusting Card properties settings, using a suitable for MSTS Graphics Card Driver will, usually produces results ! Have Fun !O t t o

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OK.....thanx for that info. I have added that switch and it seems to helped the "moire" some. I have the RADEON 9100 Series Video Card. I cannot, however, seem to get into the settings area that would allow me to make any adjustments to the anti-aliasing settings. Perhaps you could lead me in that direction.Thanx.....

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Right-Click in an empty part of your Desktop to bring up the Display Properties window. Select Settings / Advanced and you should see a Tab with the name of your Graphics Card on it.Clicking on that should display more options, like with my nVIDIA TI-4600 an "Additional Properties" button for tweaking all sorts of things, Antialiasing and Anisotropic settings included.RivaTuner.exe is another more direct method of tweaking Graphics Cards settings. Designed for nVIDIA cards I am not sure whether it would recognise ATI-Radeon settings ?Take Care, O t t o.

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Ya.....I've done all that, but still can't find anywhere to change Antialiasing or Anisotropic settings. I can get to the window you mention, but can't get any further. ?? Does not seem to be any place to make those kinds of changes. The window that comes up after Settings/Advanced DOES have my card name on it with five tabs: General/Adapter/Monitor/Troubleshoot/Color Management. None of those have any further adjustment buttons relating to what we're talkin' about.Back to the drawing board, I guess!

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RivaTuner has them. PowerStrip has them. I'm sure that there are more programs than those that you can use to adjust FSAA and anisotropic filtering.CB

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>this is the US, not the UK The UK also uses miles

Leiv Eiriksson was first - Christoffer Columbus used a Viking map!

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Are any activities included with this route?

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Nope, but Chris Bogley is working on one and no doubt there will be others.The potential for Activities in this long Route and the Rolling Stock and Loose Consists which may be preferred by individual users is beyond the scope of what Frank and I were prepared to do.Adding such a huge extension to an existing route was a tough enough job without creating Activities for is as well ! O t t o

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OK.....thanx. No complaint; just curious.

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-04 AT 09:59 PM (EDT)

No doubt several activities will be created and uploaded soon.Here the important fact is that the uploaded activities can run in all our routes, as far as the required rolling stock is installed.
Once they are tested OK, they will be at hand.Freight activities offer a wider range for our imagination.

Eduardo

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installed ok but got the train world failed thing,what am i doing wrong.i have xtracks latest edition installed,am i missing some thing
thanks james

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Run the install.bat.Got to read those instructions dude.Claude Debnam NS Piedmont Division Raleigh East

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This is a very touchy route, i got a lot of errors right from the start and if it hadn.t been for route control taking care of the problem i wouldn,t have known what to do. It all has to do with the
rolling stock zip. I haven't got to run this route yet but its going to be my favorite route. I tried putting in the MLT sigview, and got all kinds of errors, anyone who tries this i would like to know if they have any problems.

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John,Go and reinstall the route.. you must've done something wrong and also forgot to run the installme.bat file...

______________________

http://Evergreentracks.tk

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Hi John !After you WINZIP extracted the mp3kcons.zip into a temporary folder you will see a folder called mp3kcons in it. That folder contains a sub-folder called TRAINS. All you got to do is to COPY / PASTE that TRAINS folder into your Train Simulator folder and being asked "Do you want to overwrite ?" accept.After WINZIP extracted the 5 mp3k-1 to 5.zip files into five folders called mp3k-1, 2, 3, 4, 5 they will all contain a sub-folder called MARIAS-KOOTENAI. You COPY/PASTE all these five MARIAS-KOOTENAI folders into your MSTS ROUTES folder and after the first COPY/PASTE has created a new ROUTES Folder for it you will again be asked you "Do you want to overwrite ? and again accept every time.All five MARIAS-KOOTENAI folders pasted into the ROUTES folder you then run the Installme.bat in the ROUTES\MARIAS-KOOTENAI folder.If you have Xtracks installed then the Route will load and let you select any Consist you have got installed, not just the ones which came with my Rolling Stock Zip !O t t o

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Ok, I downloaded and installed all five zip files. I ran the Installme.bat and got no errors. I started the route and let the route generate the new terrain files, then when I try to run the route I get 6 missing shape files. I do have the latest Xtracks installed, but all the missing files seem to be track files. Missing files = A3t250r20d.s, A3t250r10d.s, A1t3000r5d.s, A1t3000r1d.s, A1t45mStrt.s & A2t90MStrt.s. Route Riter also shows these missing with no alternate available. Any ideas on how to correct the problem will be helpful.

Duncan

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I also get reports that these files are missing

Leiv Eiriksson was first - Christoffer Columbus used a Viking map!

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-18-04 AT 03:55 PM (EDT)

Ole Peter and Duncan !Having read the MARIAS-KOOTENAI-README did you make sure that you have the latest Xtracks-3.11 and the Tsection.dat 00025 which comes with it installed ?O t t o

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I have both Xtracks 3.11 and the newest Tsection.dat
No problems with any other routes requiring XTracks 3.11, such as LGVMed 3
Are you sure you haven't by chance snuck in a piece of Ytracks or something?

Leiv Eiriksson was first - Christoffer Columbus used a Viking map!

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No underhanded tricks ! Read my message # 44. Could be you pasted Xtracks 3.11 somewhere else ?O t t o

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Turns out that what I had installed was the 3.10 version. I had downloaded 3.11, but never installed it. After installing it, and then putting smoother tracks back, it seems to work just fine.

Leiv Eiriksson was first - Christoffer Columbus used a Viking map!

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Hi Duncan !Frank Carver passed your E-Mail to me and I replied. I repeat here what I said because I made a similar mistake once others could also make, Installing Xtracks to somewhere else other than GLOBAL\SHAPES !Here is part of Xtracks 3.11 with some of the files you say are missing:Do a Search Files for one of them to find where you installed them too ! The 00025 Tsection.dat which comes with Xtracks 3.11 must be in the GLOBAL folder.O t t o

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RouteRiter came up with the same list of missing files for me. I found out that they're in xtracks 3.11, but didn't get installed into the global folder for some reason. So I "installed" xtracks into a spare folder completely separate from MSTS and manually copied the missing xtracks files to the global folder in MSTS and everything is running like a charm now.CB

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Charles, do a "Search for Files and Folders" looking for one of those previously missing files to find the folder you Pasted Xtracks 3.11 into.Good Housekeeping to delete them and free disk space ?O t t o

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A mighty fine job you all have done with this route, Otto...install went without a hitch and I have done a bit of exploring on it....no file errors yet...Every freeware route is apt to have small errors, if we were experts at route building, we would be earning a living at it...to me, I'll always appreciate the fact that there are folks out there who care enough to take on a route project to release as freeware, for I don't have those skills. Thanks, Frank

Remember the MOP
http://www.geocities.com/frankoburns/Mopac1.html

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>A mighty fine job you all have done with this route,
>Otto...install went without a hitch and I have done a bit of
>exploring on it....no file errors yet...Every freeware route
>is apt to have small errors, if we were experts at route
>building, we would be earning a living at it...to me, I'll
>always appreciate the fact that there are folks out there
>who care enough to take on a route project to release as
>freeware, for I don't have those skills. Thanks, Frank Amen to that. I've tried routebuilding before and the amount of work to put together even a small section of town is astounding. It's one thing when problems crop up with payware; but when someone spends months or even years at a project, totally on their own nickel and a few glitches show up, it's not the end of the world for crying out loud. And if every single road, cafe or pebble that appears on the prototype doesn't appear on the route, for God's sakes, so what. Enjoy the simulation and stop the petty bitching.These people do a fantastic job and should be appreciated. From a railfan and trainsim buff, a big thank you.

_______________________________
Unless you're the leading dog, the view is always the same.

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It's one thing when problems crop up with payware; but when someone spends months or even years at a project, totally on their own nickel and a few glitches show up, it's not the end of the world for crying out loud. And if every single road, cafe or pebble that appears on the prototype doesn't appear on the route, for God's sakes, so what. Enjoy the simulation and stop the petty bitching.I agree fully 100%. Otto, I never ran the real route and could care less if one bridge or singles are not right. I would never know or care. Its a very enjoyable route. The winter texture are the best I have scene. Which is nice coming from someone like me that lives in Wisconsin. Thank you greatly for your time and skills.

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Thanks guys, we appreciate your comments !!! My very good friend Frank Carver from Perth, Australia who started the KOOTENAI extension shortly after MARIAS-3 was released got me involved, having no end of problems with it, mainly due to having stitched it on to the MARIAS-3, not an easy task as many route builders know, the rule being that once a route is finished no more tracks, interactive track objects or signalling should be added or interfered with.Not a fan of routes like the M.&.M. and CASCADES I got hooked on the potential the route's terrain and it's scenery offered and got to work on enhancing it, mopping up problems as I went along, missing a signal placed in a road, etc ! Just had my Track Maintenance crew out mopping up 70 small grass and soil patches on trackbed ballast edges, caused by my MSTS "Generating Terrain Buffers" spilling some on to them which were not there before. I am also not sure whether different computer specs also play a role in creating these variations.Now that I am hooked on it and can't stop running my trains along it and being an Activities FREESTYLER will start messing with AI and switching Activities which will keep me busy for some time to come, come Rain or Snow ! Let's have FUN on the MP3K !!! O t t o

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Hi Guys Some guys said that Sandpoint was missing a Bridge and a 'Y' on to this missing bridge, I decided to have a look and this is what I found, I would be interested to know what the local's of Sandpoint have to say about this map, as my route does follow this map shown
Frank Carver

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/4174907311ed186e.jpg

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sorry about the two pictures Frank

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Frank and others, if you paste this line into your message and then Cut and Paste the uploaded image file after it you will not see the "Attachment...." line under the picture in the message ! http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/ There is an "Underscore _" between User and Files !O t t o

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Checking on guys reporting missing track shapes which come with Xtracks I realised that Mark Hyams Smoother Tracks are not part of it yet, I supplied as part of the MP3K Install.Anybody having installed Xtracks after running the MARIAS-KOOTENAI Installme.bat should run the latter again to get the benefit of the these greatly improved smoother curves ! O t t o

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Ok, I reinstalled Xtracks and re ran the installme.bat, and then ran route riter. Still get the same 6 missing files.

Duncan

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Sorry Duncan, replied to the earlier post of your's !Read my message # 44.O t t o

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OTTO:
I would like to thank you for a outstanding job and all the other people as well. It's a great day for MSTS to have a route like this
and theirs bound to be bugs and i'm sure they'll get worked out!

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Installed as noted in doc (have installed many other routes with no issues) but after texture build get message that WORLD will not initialize. All other routes continue to operate.Can anyone help - would love to get operating on this route after the above great posts.Thanks

Doug Little
Mississauga, ON

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Hi Doug Did you run the Install-me. bat.
You also must have all the default routes in your MSTS folder Frank Carver

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I've had problems but i have the route working fine and even got the MLT sigview working. Here's how i done it and it works. first download all 5 files, use win zip and extract them starting with the #5zip to the desktop then with each zip you will be asked to overright, answer yes to all, when your done place the folder in the
routes folder run the install me bat, get some coffee and when it's done it will say press any key to continue, then its bset to check the route with route riter and then route control. You should be fine
make sure to have all 6 defult routes the latest x-tracks and t section.

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Mmmm.Have all default routes, X-Tracks 3.11, and latest t section.But, I unzipped #1 thru #5, not #5 thru #1.ran install.batMmmm.Q: Should I delete Marias 3.1 prior to install?

Doug Little
Mississauga, ON

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Doug MP3.1 has nothing to do with my route. my route is called MP3K and will load along side of MP3.1 on my computer I have

MP3K
MP3.1
MP3
and Marias Pass default.
plus all the other routes. As every one else is loading the route easily enough I can not see why yours is not. Frank Carver

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-04 AT 02:39 AM (EDT)

Thanks for the great route Otto !I ran entire route with the Santa-Fe Express with no errors , and average FR . The (5) view is cool .Currently running an intermodel train from end to end with no errors , and excellent FR up to Troy .Archer01

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/4174b50f6326399d.jpg

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I am glad you like it Lloyd !I have run the MP3K so many times now, improving and testing it, that I am beginning to think I know every tree in it personally ! But most of the credit must go to EMUFARMER Frank Carver from Perth, Australia, who retired like myself battled with the RE for many months, eventually helped a bit by me until I got hooked on it and decided to put some sparkle into it, have my Route maintenance crews go along it with a fine toothcombe looking for anything needing fixing or improving. That was another 3 months of around the clock non-stop work, sometimes until 4 AM ! There will be a small Terrain Tiles update patch, fixing minor glitches such as grass growing over the edge of the trackbed ballast, which may not be noticeable on some computers, caused by MSTS "Generating Terrain Buffers" in a haphazard fashion.Have FUN !O t t o.

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Doug,it makes no difference in which order you download the Zips nor how you then COPY/PASTE the five unzipped MARIAS-KOOTENAI folders into the Train Simulator\ROUTES Folder.What matters is to have Xtracks 3.11 installed into GLOBAL\SHAPES and it's Tsection.dat into the Root of the GLOBAL folder, overwriting anything that may be there already and then finally run the MARIAS-KOOTENAI\Installme.bat !That's all there is too it ! O t t o

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OTTO YOU NEED TO CONTACT ME OFF LIST ASAP RE:REDISTRIBUTING NALW FILES WITHOUT A LICENSE BOTH HERE AND YOUR SITE! (and yes I am shouting since you have been ignoring messages going on a 2nd day!)
Chuck Schneider
Chief Cook, Bottle Washer and (Virtual) CEO

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>OTTO YOU NEED TO CONTACT ME OFF LIST ASAP RE:REDISTRIBUTING
>NALW FILES WITHOUT A LICENSE BOTH HERE AND YOUR SITE!Oh oh !!LaterTim Kent – 96th_Malice - Winnipeg CanadaProud member of the - NO TRAIL CN SD60 - club !!

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Sorry Chuck, but this is the first I heard about it, you got my E-Mail address ?Been a while since I downloaded them and there not being anything in their TRAINSET folder to remind me where they came from and not being PAYWARE I did not think their creators would mind me improving them, their origin being specified as NALW in the Download FILE_ID.DIZ. I forgot that it was associated with you, thinking that NALW was the name of their original manufacturer ! The File Library version has been withdrawn and shall take your improved by me UP-BIGBLOW units out of the Downloads on my Web Site unless you would like me to carry on to make them available.It's not my loss so I don't care one way or the other ! It's the Community Members you would be deprieving of your work !O t t o

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I think Chuck's point is that you violated their EULA. not something they take lightly.Bradley Linda
Waco, Texas

TKW Paint Shop

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Yes Brad, Chuck has got a point, but I like many others never read a EULA and just click on "Accept", don't you ? As far as I am concerned and the same goes for Frank Carver, the more our work is being spread and modified with or without our permission the happier we shall be ! Just don't blame us for screwing it up ! Would be evidence that users think our work is good enough to be modified to suit their purpose ! Now it it were PAYWARE then I would bare my fangs too ! O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-04 AT 05:37 PM (EDT)

Now it it were PAYWARE then I would bare my fangs too !" Ahh, I see. Since many of us decide to share our work for free... it means that our work is not "worth" anything. The price "FREE" means you do not respect it. Is that the way you want it? 50% of the TRAINZ developers ask for money. Is that what we should be doing so you give us the respect we deserve?
With the "no respect for freeware developers" attitudes like this... you wonder why I no longer upload my work to the file library? Yeah... I guess you can figure that out...Don't think we didn't notice you included stuff from OUR team too.Pete Willard

http://www.trainsimstuff.com

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You are applying a twisted interpretation to FREEWARE which I did not make but originated in your mind !To me FREEWARE means just what is says, it's FREE and can be shared by all without payment. But by how many depends on how good it is and in the case of developers like NALW and others the proof of that is in their download figures.As far as the MARIAS-KOOTENAI is concerned, which I did not create and only enhanced, Frank Carver made it quite clear that there were far too many he borrowed ideas and stuff from, thanking all, starting with KUJU, the main contributors and creators of the MARIAS-3 and countless others, right down to the track textures I used I can not even remember where they came from.If there were no respect for FREEWARE contributors and the quality of their creations then nobody would bother downloading them.O t t o

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OTTO
Take it down! End of Story!You've been on here a long time and you and everyone else who has been on here for more than 5 mins. knows we have a EULA and that we enforce it. For you to say what you did about it is pretty disingenuous IMO! You modified and distributed without asking for permission! That's a clear violation.You just went through the whole process with the BNSFLady package so it's not like you didn't know...And frankly my dear I don't give a tinker's damn about what you would or would not do if you were us! You aren't! It's our models! If you want to use them then play by our rules! OH, and FWIW we get plenty of distribution right on here!
IIRC over 7000 downloads of our original package and over 15000 downloads of various re-skins and never a complaint that our textures needed upgrading and so I'm wondering what, if anything, we are really denying the community!And yes you have me a bit POed about this whole thing as it looks like you were ducking us....I e-mailed you at least twice about this before I went public so don't start that... And if you had a PM enabled on here I would have followed that.... I feel you forced me into a spot where this became public and ugly and that disappoints me!
Chuck Schneider
Chief Cook, Bottle Washer and (Virtual) CEO

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No problem, Chuck !Like I said, it's no loss of mine !O t t o

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Following objections from Chuck Schneider (NALW) about me including their UP-BIGBLOW in the mp3kcons.zip and on my Web Site I have withdrawn all !Another objector, KURT KAMINER of KLW who I thought was a friend and I paid $ 100.00 for creating my special SANTA FE EXPLORER and a long time ago asked for permission to distribute it to all who want it, to which he agreed, asked Nels to withdraw this download containing it, totally unjustified and for reasons best known to himself.I am sorry, but it seems that FREEWARE is not FREE in the sense that it can be used without restrictions. The greatly improved by Enocell, Okrasa and myself set of MSTS Default US2 Freight wagons is still available at:
www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/downloads/us2-pack.zip
and so far I have had no objections from Microsoft, KUJU, Enocell or Okrasa !O t t o

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>The greatly improved by Enocell, Okrasa and myself set of
>MSTS Default US2 Freight wagons is still available at:
>www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/downloads/us2-pack.zip
>and so far I have had no objections from Microsoft, KUJU,
>Enocell or Okrasa !
>
>O t t o
Ahem . . . Uh huh, yes, yes . . . I see . . . but . . . you don't understand, the default rolling stock from Kuju is Fisher-Price quality, sir . . . OK . . . just one moment, please . . . Bill Gates on line 2, Mr. Wipfel.

_______________________________
Unless you're the leading dog, the view is always the same.

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Would I love to have a chat with Mr. Gates and tell him what I think about Microsoft discontinuing MSTS ! Anyway, he would have to talk to Enocell and Okrasa first ! O t t o

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>I am sorry, but it seems that FREEWARE is not FREE in the
>sense that it can be used without restrictions. That's entirely correct. Freeware is free in the sense that it is provided at no charge. Restrictions to use/modification/redistribution can and often do apply Otto. Most freeware content in the file library here has some restrictions on modification and redistribution. If anyone bothered to read the included documentation, it's usually in the readme.txt files, or if in a more "professionally" done product, in the EULA that most people don't read. This has all been discussed here at great length before. I'm sure Chuck rembembers that one, with the differences between public domain and freeware and all. Went on for a couple of weeks, grew to more than 100 replies. Kurt hasn't allowed any of his stuff to be in the file library here for a year or so now. Bradley Linda
Waco, Texas

TKW Paint Shop

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Just for everybodies info, this will be locked at 100 posts.

______________________

http://Evergreentracks.tk

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I tend to be a lurker here, although I am here everyday, and have a few thoughts to share. The bickering towards the end of this thread is what gives Train-Sim a bad rep in many other MSTS communities (in fact on a couple of other boards it is refered to as Flame-Sim) and has driven more than one talented person away from here. I'm not talking about violating EULA's or what is "freeware" vs "payware", I'm talking about the semi-childish (trying to be kind) behavior that seems to erupt on these boards from time to time. In this particular case, if a person uploads someone elses intellectual property and the original author objects and they cannot reach the person who uploaded, send a note to Nels explaining the situation and ask him to take down the file - it is as simple as that. I know that in the past Nels has acted swiftly to correct wrongs. All this whining and arguing back and forth serves no purpose other than to feed the egos of some of those involved. I guess the best way I can express what I am trying to say is to grow up and act like reasonable adults. Just my one and a half cents worth. Ken

How did I survive before MSTS

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>In this particular case, if a person uploads someone elses
>intellectual property and the original author objects and
>they cannot reach the person who uploaded, send a note to
>Nels explaining the situation and ask him to take down the
>file - it is as simple as that. I know that in the past Nels
>has acted swiftly to correct wrongs.
Correct but not feasible when the items can also be downloaded from a person's own website.

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-20-04 AT 07:24 AM (EDT)

>>In this particular case, if a person uploads someone elses
>>intellectual property and the original author objects and
>>they cannot reach the person who uploaded, send a note to
>>Nels explaining the situation and ask him to take down the
>>file - it is as simple as that. I know that in the past Nels
>>has acted swiftly to correct wrongs.
>Correct but not feasible when the items can also be
>downloaded from a person's own website. And they do not answer E-Mails and PMs...I did not just get up one day and decide to embarrass Otto!
We have had similar instances with other folks in the past and 90% of the time it is handled off-line by a PM or E-Mail and you folks never see it. By the time of the Original post in the General forum I had been trying to contact him for at least a day. I was unable to PM him and my e-mails were going un-answered while he was continuing to post on here so I knew he was still alive.... You'll note the original post just asked for ET to Phone home and gave no specifics... When that was not responded to for about 24 hours then I went public.I wish this could have been avoided but I do have a responsibility to our members (NALW) to protect their intellectual property!Chuck Schneider
Chief Cook, Bottle Washer and (Virtual) CEO

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>Just for everybodies info, this will be locked at 100 posts.Good idea. Most (but not all) of this thread has turned into a pi$$ing contest anyway. We need a good copyright lawyer to visit these forums. I would like to know if something is really copyrighted just because the creator says it's copyrighted. What's the legal status of that situation? Does something have to be registered with the U.S. copyright office to be legally copyrighted? I'm sure that books and magazines and things like that aren't copyrighted just because the publisher says that they're copyrighted. Just curious.CB

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85 !
Tim Kent – 96th_Malice - Winnipeg CanadaProud member of the - NO TRAIL CN SD60 - club !!

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And counting !

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87Fred

http://www.anarchist-cookbook.com/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm

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88 bottles of beer on the wall.Claude Debnam NS Piedmont Division Raleigh East

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damn, lets take them down and have some fun! Sounds like a winner - I have some stout that is just begging to be drunk!89
Fred

http://www.anarchist-cookbook.com/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-04 AT 09:37 PM (EDT)

90

______________________

http://Evergreentracks.tk

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The bottom line here is that both Otto and Chuck have enriched the trainsim world with their many, many contributions, so they are the valuable contributors here. It is therefore regretful that such a misunderstanding has occurred: I know how both men tick, and if one goes tock when the other goes tick then we get bang! Chuck (and rightly so) asks to be accorded the respect of having "his permission" for any of his works to be used; not to do so, would be seen--quite naturally-- as a mark of disrespect for him.Otto has so many irons in the fire: too busy helping others that he "does" simply forget--so much so--that sniper (where is sniper?)has got him out of many a scrape in the past. I can assure you Otto does not do it intentionally.It is indeed ironic that both these old timers in their own way have fought to stave of the Russians in time of need. All I can say is that both are the salt of the earth.Mike

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-04 AT 10:02 PM (EDT)

>>Just for everybodies info, this will be locked at 100 posts.
>
>Good idea. Most (but not all) of this thread has turned
>into a pi$$ing contest anyway. We need a good copyright
>lawyer to visit these forums. I would like to know if
>something is really copyrighted just because the creator
>says it's copyrighted. What's the legal status of that
>situation? Does something have to be registered with the
>U.S. copyright office to be legally copyrighted? I'm sure
>that books and magazines and things like that aren't
>copyrighted just because the publisher says that they're
>copyrighted. Just curious. Works are generally protected under copyright--regardless of registration or even an explicit notice--upon their creation. Registration does, however, increase the amount of damages that can be collected following infringement.http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#hlc

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What's the legal status of a EULA? Are EULA's, as used with the file library stuff here grounds for actual legal action? Or are they just grounds for raising a fuss (I'm not saying that it's not justified) on the forums? Just curious.CB

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>Another objector, KURT KAMINER of KLW who I thought
>was a friend and I paid $ 100.00 for creating my special
>SANTA FE EXPLORER You actually paid a 100 bucks for that hunk of crap? Hope you kept the receipt.

Brock Hansen

TKW Paint Shop

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-04 AT 09:45 PM (EDT)

Dang Brock you went for the juglar. #93.Claude Debnam NS Piedmont Division Raleigh East

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I am adding this so it will get to 100 sooner!
Too many uncalled for remarks starting to get in here.

Joe Morris CRR #2
Senior Engineer
Vice President, Equip. & Physics, OVS
Gen. Manager, OVS Shortlines
http://or4c.com/OVSTS//ShortLines.html

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You are truely a legend in your own mind. And you loyal sycophnats are just icing on the cake. He helps ppl - what a joke. I have found a lot faster and easier ways to do things from tutorials at 3dtrains and the steam4me site. Otto's are way over blown and complicated. All this route is an attempt at otto to be important. I wonder if he dislocated his arm patting himself on the back?Fred

http://www.anarchist-cookbook.com/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm

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Hi All re; this copyright thing,there are programs made by a lot of people to change things around, are we all doing wrong in using these programs and making the items different. what happens if I release a route with the distance changed from 2000 to 500, or making a model smaller by a well known program. is that going against the copyright of the model maker, if so I can see Lawyers crawling through many of these Routes looking for copyright violations. I see this (PRE) thing in a lot of routes, so a lot of Route builders are changing things around before release. Can someone enlighten me on the use of these programs, or is this the end of Freeware Frank Carver

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-04 AT 11:57 PM (EDT)

What number is Wayne GretzkyOh ya99LaterTim Kent – 96th_Malice - Winnipeg CanadaProud member of the - NO TRAIL CN SD60 - club !!

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100. Killed. Grow up, people.
-Sam

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Hi Fred??? (6307)Would you like to tell all the good folks who you really are, or would you like me to tell em. Poor Brian has not caught onto you yet, but Mr Bossman know all about you.Mike

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