Corrupted setup.exe file install continued

I followed this post for the following reasons:1. I am completely baffled as to why the previous thread was locked--at least an explanation please!2. Neither Tim nor Chuck (valuable contributors)could be considered trouble makers on this forum--so why lock?3. The thread was both constructive and informative on a particular subject, and therfore to lock it gives the impression of censorship.4. I ain't had my say yet, which is yer have ta give the guy the benefit of the doubt at the end of the day. Thank you.Mike

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RE: Corrupted setup.exe file install continued...., OTTODAD, Aug-14-04, 05:54 PM, (1) RE: Corrupted setup.exe file install continued...., Hack, Aug-14-04, 06:39 PM, (2) RE: Corrupted setup.exe file install continued...., OTTODAD, Aug-14-04, 08:47 PM, (3) RE: Corrupted setup.exe file install continued...., whleighton, Aug-14-04, 09:46 PM, (4) RE: Corrupted setup.exe file install continued...., Hack, Aug-15-04, 03:08 AM, (6) RE: Corrupted setup.exe file install continued...., Hack, Aug-15-04, 03:05 AM, (5) RE: Corrupted setup.exe file install continued...., zhivago47, Aug-15-04, 04:33 AM, (7) RE: Corrupted setup.exe file install continued...., OTTODAD, Aug-15-04, 07:43 AM, (8) RE: Corrupted setup.exe file install continued...., westerngy, Aug-15-04, 11:02 AM, (9) RE: Corrupted setup.exe file install continued...., Hack, Aug-15-04, 02:21 PM, (10) RE: Corrupted setup.exe file install continued...., whleighton, Aug-15-04, 04:32 PM, (11) RE: Corrupted setup.exe file install continued...., Swissie, Aug-16-04, 03:04 AM, (12)

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Mike,I think it was my post asking a simple question about how MICROSOFT COPYRIGHT affects developers who use and modify MSTS proprietary stuff without permission, perhaps deemed by a Mod to be the seeds of WW-III ? We had to get permission from Chuck Schneider and others in order to make Cyndi's customised NALW Cab Views of the BNSFLADY available in the Forum !O t t o

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Gee-wiz, Otto. Have you not even read the content EULA?Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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I have read the EULA1.rtf but can not see a specific reference on the subject of parts of MSTS being used and modified by others, be they Free- or Payware Add-On vendors.Creators of Add-On Routes or Rolling Stock are more specific about what can or can not be done with their products, like in the case of the 3D-Trains License.txt forinstance.As a past creator of commercial Accounting Software I know that it can not be modified in any shape or form without my agreement and my Software can only be used in accordance with specific licensing terms on a client to client basis.O t t o

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Guys,It doesn't matter whether Neil is a nice guy and that he is a legal owner of a legimate copy of MSTS and has had the misfortune of a scratched, dirty or broken CD. It is illegal to transfer any portion of the software to a third party. Yes, I am certain that Microsoft will not do a seek and destroy on Derek for giving away the executable, but it's a matter of principle and ethics. If it's OK to give away a "small portion" of copywrited software, where does the definition a "small portion" end? Or is it acceptable simply because it mega-monster Microsoft? Chuck is right, you know. A copyright is a copyright.Bill

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>It is illegal to transfer any portion of the
>software to a third party. Not true. Read the provisions in the ContentEULA.rtf.Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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Otto, you're looking at the wrong one. From the ContentEULA.rtf:"Personal Use: Subject to the following, you may use, edit and modify the Software Product solely for use in Microsoft Train Simulator and limited to personal, non-commercial use on your home computer. You may share the Software Product with family or friends, provided they accept the terms of this EULA, but you may not sell or otherwise distribute the Software Product in exchange for monetary or other value or in any commercial manner."Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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Well that pretty much answers the question as far as I can see. To me that says that Derek can send the gentleman in question the setup.exe file if he wants to as long as he doesn't sell it to him and as long as he agrees to the eula. First off, I didn't notice that this thread was deleted. Thanks for pointing that out Michael. For what reason I don't know. Seems we are quick on the trigger in some cases and not so quick in others but that is neither here nor there. The point is, one setup file is not going to give this gentleman an entire game. No matter what you believe. Sure he can get in touch with Microsoft and perhaps get another disk but how long is that going to take. I see no harm and no foul in Derek's doing this. His only foul, in my opinion, was not just sending a PM to the gentleman with the problem and offering it to him there where it wouldn't cause all this controversy about Eulas and stealing work, etc. No one would have known about it then. Seems Mr. Schneider has always got to stick his nose in here when there is anything to do with any kind of copyright question. Worry about NALW's stuff Chuck and let the rest go ok? The fact is this has nothing to do with NALW and in fact according to the EULA posted by Marc above, Derek can do what he wants to do. And even if he couldn't , despite Bill's worry about what's perceived as what is right and what is wrong with this, I don't see the harm here. It's only one file out of a hundred that is required to get the game working correctly. I don't see the harm in helping someone out here. It is hurting no one. It certainly is not hurting Microsoft if the gentleman in question purchased the game and now cannot get it to work because of a corrupted file. Look, I believe in copyrights. I always follow them, but there are cases when ethics has nothing to do with it. There's a copyright on all of my books, but if someone is missing a page from the same book, and would like it, I am going to make a copy of it and send it to him. It's the same thing! Chuck's problem, and rightly so is that he is touchy about the subject because he has a lot of his stuff being stolen, but this has nothing to do with his copyrighted stuff. Worry about your own stuff Chuck. Go payware and then you won't have as much trouble. Your product is good enough to be payware. Either that or monitor it a little closer and do something about it instead of just complaining about it. I will back you up 100 percent if you find someone doing that. This is all so ridiculous. Derek, do it but next time don't broadcast it so we have people like Chuck and Bill spouting off about breaking copyrights. Ethics be damned. This is a guy with a bad file. Nothing more. I would hate to be broken down somewhere and have one of you two driving by because I know I wouldn't get any help from you. On the other hand, Derek would stop and help me out. Ridiculous. This is not the same thing at all gentlemen as the stealing of Chucks or anyone else work. This is an entirely different scenario here.
Oh what's the use. You will never get it anyway. Tim"May the great BNSF 38 pumpkin carry you to your new home, Cyndi and may you engineer her for an eternity"

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-04 AT 07:45 AM (EST)

Well, here are the relevant paragraphs from what my MSTS calls EULA2.rtf:. GRANT OF LICENSE. This EULA grants you the following rights:
· Installation and Use. You may install and use a copy of the Software Product.
· Personal Use: Subject to the following, you may use the Editors to modify the Train Simulator
Content provided that your use of the Train Simulator Content is limited to
personal, non-commercial use on your home computer. You may share the modified
Train Simulator Content with family or friends but you may not sell or otherwise
distribute the modified Train Simulator Content in exchange for monetary or
other value or in any commercial manner.
· Commercial Use. You may use the Editors to modify and add functionality to Original Content,
provided the Original Content is not derivative of the Train Simulator Content
or other materials found in the Software Product. You may use and/or
distribute the Original Content for both personal and/or commercial purposes.
· Whether for Personal Use or Commercial Use, you are not granted any rights to distribute the
trademarks, logos or train designs found in the Software Product, even in a
modified form.
3. COPYRIGHT. All title and copyrights in and to the Software Product (including but not limited
to any images, photographs, trademarks, logos, train designs, animations, video,
audio, music, text, and "applets" incorporated into the Software Product or other
Train Simulator Content), the accompanying printed materials, and any copies of
the Software Product are owned by Microsoft or its suppliers. The Software Product
is protected by copyright laws and international treaty provisions. Therefore, you
must treat the Software Product like any other copyrighted material.Open to some interpretation, none of it a concern of mine not being a supplier of ADD-ONs.It appears that distributing Original content is permitted but any modifications to the Original MSTS content are not.O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-04 AT 11:12 AM (EST)

You guys could go back and forth figuring each of you is correct in your interpretation of the EULA.
I think it comes down to ones conscience.Its a software one has bought,there for the only right to use that software is by the person who purchased it and as it reads family and friends.The first explains itsself..family..Friend well that is open to what some people call friend or aquantance.
Again those two words can open up another topic. This thread could go on and on Just Rollin Down The Tracks

Dale

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It would appear - at least to me - that one EULA conflicts with another. I vote to side with caution. Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-15-04 AT 04:34 PM (EST)

Otto,Read it again...Original in this case means your original content, (a loco, freight car, building, etc. that you, yourself created) not Microsoft's original content. Giving away any portion of Microsoft's original content constitutes distribution, which is expressly prohibited.If this isn't so, why are so many little kids being taken to court for downloading music from Napster?Bill

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-16-04 AT 03:18 AM (EST)

Hi guys,of course, it's legalese and that can be twisted any way... But before speculations go havoc, may I risk putting myself into the line of fire and have a closer look at the points mentionned?That, and using some common sense, my 2c at the above-mentionned EULA excerpts are:@ Otto's original concern
Microsoft is the one who
a) has provided us with the "samples" folder, with some tools (..utils/makeace.exe, the Route Editor, just to start with two examples) and also instructions on how to modify the default trainsets from the beginning, and
b) even encourages us to repaint and to modify default routes (go to the screen where you select among the editors, and see what it tells you with regard to the purpose of the Route Editor...). @ the passage on trademarks which really needs some interpretation: "Whether for Personal Use or Commercial Use, you are not granted any rights to distribute the trademarks, logos or train designs found in the Software Product, even in a modified form." This passage does obviously refer to the trademarks, logos, and designs - i.e. every other element of the appearance, namely the color scheme, the fonts, lettering as far as it is not already protected by their trademark - of the railroad companies whose equipment is depicted in the default installation. Which is logical, as these are and remain a third parity's intellectual property for the use of which Microsoft had to obtain a license also. In a layman's terms it means that despite the fact that Microsoft uses these trademarks, logos, and liveries (designs) on its default equipment the rights protecting them still apply to everybody else. Nobody can come and say: "Well, MSTS distributes the BNSF Heritage scheme on the Default Dash9, so I can paint about any MSTS model into that scheme and need not observe the trademark of BNSF anymore". Or I repeat in legalese "you are not granted any rights to distribute the trademarks, logos or train designs found in the Software Product, even in a modified form." Just imagine another situation: If it were UP instead of BNSF that MSTS ran by default, UP's explicit licensing policy would still apply, i.e. you'd still have to get a license for your repaints in UP liveries, despite the fact that there was already some UP stock in MSTS. Of course, there is enough food for lawyers in the wording of the above-mentionned paragraphs, and unless a litigation took place, we can only speculate - or make educated guestimates - as to which extend & content the provisions would be interpreted by the Court.Lukas a.k.a Swissie

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