P&WV 2 - problems and fixes

I started it up and got a load of errors, but they are easily fixable for many.1. Missing blank.ace - copy from might folder into the main texture folder.2. Many unable to open s file. What I did was fire up route riter and go into the shapes folder and compress the s files. For some reason it did not want to read uncompressed s file. And there are a lot of them. A rule or thumb, if over 30k, compress. I had RR and explorer open together and went back and forth.After doing both of the above I had no more error messages.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, NW_611, Oct-05-03, 12:56 PM, (1) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, njineer, Oct-05-03, 01:27 PM, (2) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, BLW_1946, Oct-05-03, 01:27 PM, (3) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, gdwrench, Oct-05-03, 01:33 PM, (4) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, Richard, Oct-05-03, 02:40 PM, (5) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, dcrano, Oct-05-03, 04:47 PM, (6) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, Richard, Oct-05-03, 05:10 PM, (7) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, dcrano, Oct-05-03, 07:18 PM, (10) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, Richard, Oct-05-03, 08:27 PM, (11) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, longislandmike, Oct-05-03, 05:15 PM, (8) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, rckambach, Oct-05-03, 05:36 PM, (9) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, njineer, Oct-05-03, 09:28 PM, (12) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, mquist, Oct-05-03, 10:07 PM, (13) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, Richard, Oct-05-03, 10:21 PM, (15) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, kevarc, Oct-05-03, 10:18 PM, (14) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, Richard, Oct-05-03, 10:23 PM, (16) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, kevarc, Oct-05-03, 10:34 PM, (17) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, mquist, Oct-06-03, 00:24 AM, (18) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, JBrownCS, Oct-06-03, 02:30 AM, (19) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, dx5517, Oct-06-03, 09:32 AM, (20) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, kevarc, Oct-06-03, 09:56 AM, (21) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, Claude350, Oct-06-03, 10:25 AM, (22) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, kevarc, Oct-06-03, 10:52 AM, (23) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, Claude350, Oct-06-03, 11:49 AM, (24) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, longislandmike, Oct-06-03, 05:32 PM, (25) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, kevarc, Oct-06-03, 10:53 PM, (26) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, Claude350, Oct-07-03, 12:08 PM, (27) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, dx5517, Oct-07-03, 04:55 PM, (28) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, kevarc, Oct-07-03, 04:59 PM, (29) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, dx5517, Oct-07-03, 05:20 PM, (30) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, kevarc, Oct-07-03, 05:25 PM, (31) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, Claude350, Oct-07-03, 07:01 PM, (32) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, Richard, Oct-07-03, 10:51 PM, (33) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, BLW_1946, Oct-08-03, 00:58 AM, (35) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, dx5517, Oct-08-03, 04:58 AM, (37) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, dcrano, Oct-08-03, 05:35 PM, (39) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, JBrownCS, Oct-08-03, 00:23 AM, (34) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, dx5517, Oct-08-03, 05:16 AM, (38) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, BLW_1946, Oct-09-03, 00:10 AM, (40) RE: P&WV 2 - problems and fixes, UJJJJJJJ, Oct-08-03, 01:36 AM, (36)

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Thanks! I'm downloading this route (Norfolk & Western and Penn Central; I can't lose!) right now, and I'm certain that I would have been befuzzled by these issues you mention.Is RouteRiter's compression essential, or can I get by by doing the same with SFM?

____________________________________________________________________
Norfolk & Western’s Radford Division, Pulaski District: Who needs the Marias Pass?

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Thanks for the advice as I too was getting all those error messages and was puzzeled. Will give it a try and see what happens.I'm OUT!CSK

Highball

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got disconnected by my isp after about 2 hours of download time - will have to try again overnight.thanks for the heads up on the errors...Tim

Tim Baldwin
Buffalo NY

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-05-03 AT 02:33 PM (EDT)

All I did is install the Blank.ace and all worked ok. I did not do anything with the .s files. Also I think you need X tracks installed or at least the latest Tsection. The route would not even show up with the default Tsection.Ps, I really like the route. Thank You for shearing your work with us.

Fred... "Mr. Goodwrench" a General Motors Technician in Kingman Arizona.

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WOW!, I do not understand this. I checked the route with route riter before compressing it and route riter said all was fine. Also sorry, I forgot to mention in the readme file, you do need the latest version of xtracks and tsection.dat files.Take care,
Rich S.

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A little more info on my install of P&WV;Running a P4, 2.4gig, 2 gig of memory, and WinXPXtracks ver 3.7, and build 20 of Tsection.datThe 'Installme.bat' would not run automatically, even with the check box checked. I simply went into the route folder and double clicked, it appeared to run fine.Loaded the route, ran a few explore routes and all seemed fine, MSTS had no problems setting up the viros.When I run RR on the route, it shows the following errors:Texture file CI_GRScant1.ace referred by CI_GRSCANT1.S is missing from your route, no alternative is available in the default routes.Don

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Hello Don,
This is very strange, that file should not have been deleted from the install, as it's not in the default routes. I have Windows Me and that is the operating system I used to check the install program. At this point I'm not sure why the batch file is not being called from the Windows Xp operating system. I'm going to try and post the missing ace file to this message, if for some reason this does not work, the name of the zip file in the file library is "ci_xing2.zip" Simply unzip the file in a temp folder, then copy the CI_GRScant1.ace to the P&WV\Texture folder. This file is used for the crossing signal at Gladden. Thanks for the feedback and sorry about the missing file.Take care,
Rich S.

Attachments
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3f80878c2fa71cb2.zip

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Rich,First the attachement worked just fine, copied over to the texture folder, and now RR has no complaints, says all is well. Again Thanks.Also should note: on my sys here the bat file is sitting in the P&WV route folder, not the default routes. When the extractor runs, then gets to the check box window, when I hit finish, I can see the cmd window open, then it closes almost instantly, the that is the end of the install at that point. I would guess at this time, if for some reason the bat file was supposed to be somewhere else, other then \ROUTES\P&WV\, that is the reason it did not run.But with all said and done, the route looks great, seems to work great, have already run some explore modes with some of my exsisting consists, and am about to install the required add-ons for the act that is included.I have installed routes that were shall we say, a little bit more of a pain, that is for sure. So even with the glitch of the bat not running, I was glad to find it in the P&WV folder, and when it worked was even happier. As far as I am concerned, it was all well worth. Just about every year the wife and I take the Pittsburg over night excursion with the Orville group, and run by the W&LE over this same route from Ohio to Rook yard, so it is going to be fun to sim the same run.Again, thank you for the missing ace, and grats on a job well done.Don

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Don,
Thank you for the feedback and compliments on the route. You will probably notice places on the route that no longer exist. Just some that come to mind, the W&LE pulled up most of the passing sidings, removed just about all the signals, the Montour at Southview and Venice are gone along with the Morris Mine, that you can see along the Westland Branch. Also you will not find the four lane Route 50 that runs from Gladden to Bridgeville, that was added after the time period I choose to model. One last tip, the activity included is an introductory train ride that can be found under the introductory train ride menu option. If you would like to run the piggyback train, simply go to the "P&WV\ACTIVITIES" folder, open the file "p&wv_itr.act" using WordPad (not Notepad) and change the
mode ( 0 ) line to mode ( 2 ) save and you'll be set.Take care,
Rich S.

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I did the RouteRider compress and I then went looking through my route folders for the CI_GRScant1.ace, which I found in ConrailIndy. Rechecked with RR and all is ok.Mike

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Kevin (and all),Now .. this thread is what the forums are all about !! Thanks Kev .. for starting it .. and to all who added helpful pointers. The route is on my to-download list, and you can bet that this thread is bookmarked.Thanks again, Bob Kambach

"Home" is about 500 Yds. from the famous "Pequest Fill" on the abandoned "DL&W Cutoff"

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Well I put the blank ace. in the main texture folder and compressed the s. files in RR anyway. I am pleased to say coal trains are running amuke on the route. Beautiful route and I am enjoying very much. Thanks for all your hard work.Later,CSK

Highball

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I figured I had better d/l this after encouraging Richard to post it. I had pretty much the same problems as the rest of you. After looking for the shape files that weren't loading an finding all of them I turned to the blank.ace and found it missing. found a copy in kingsport and loaded it. By the way it appears that tne blank.ace is only missinf in the root textures folder the seasonal folders seem to have it. After loading this ace it seems that all the problems have gone away. Perhaps all of the shapes that failed used that ace file?I am having trouble with the supplied activity. I have d/l'd all the equipment and they all seem to be OK but the activity does not show up on the list. There is an error message when unpackaging the activity that it was created with an older track database build than the current one. If there were any significant changes to the track database that is probably the problem. Perhaps Richard could check on that an repost a new version of the activity. Anyway I broke out my Fairmont speeder and I am making my initial map of the railroad. So far it looks pretty good I'll drop another message here if I have further troubles. After d/l'ing all those cars I guess I could create an activity or two once I get a map of the critter.Be Seeing you.
Michael

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Hello Michael,
Thank you for downloading the route. The activity is a introductory train ride and can be found under the introductory train ride menu option. To convert this to a usable activity refer to post #11 above. Thanks for the feedback and enjoy the route.Take care,
Rich S.

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Needs a TRAFFIC folder, also.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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OH Boy, I missed that too. It seems that the install program is not building empty folders.

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I uploaded a first beta activity for it. It is in my forum.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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Richard:After exploring some I found one more missing texture. It is "CI_GRScant1.ace" and as a result several shapes also don't load. This occurs on by one of the lumber mills on the PC branch line. I am running out of time and I just shut down so I'll look into this further. Otherwise it look pretty good. There is a lot of relativly undeveloped PC trackage. Are you planning to add to that? Otherwise it seem like you put an auful lot of effort in laying all that track.Be Seeing you.
Michael

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I did the fixes suggested in this thread but I was getting Send/Don't Send. Turns out I needed to create a dummy activity to make the explore route mode work.
This route does look good but it's a real frame rate killer. I only get 13 fps and I'm running a P4 2.4ghz with a TI-4600 card.

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-03 AT 09:38 AM (EDT)

>I started it up and got a load of errors, but they are
>easily fixable for many.
>
>1. Missing blank.ace - copy from might folder into the main
>texture folder.
>
>2. Many unable to open s file. What I did was fire up
>route riter and go into the shapes folder and compress the s
>files. For some reason it did not want to read uncompressed
>s file. And there are a lot of them. A rule or thumb, if
>over 30k, compress. I had RR and explorer open together and
>went back and forth.
>
>After doing both of the above I had no more error messages. Hi mate...Mighty odd there... I had similar problems to you after the route tried to run following the initial buffer creation which is usually normal in most cases. The RunMe.bat file finished it's work a lot sooner than I thought it would, but once the buffers were done, I got this little window telling me about the Blank.ace file missing, and then several .s files as well.I said "No" to the continue, and closed MSTS, then went to Windows Explorer and did a search for the filenames I wrote down following the messages onscreen. Strangely most of these filenames were actually where they should have been in the P&WV folders, NOT missing at all. All I really did was take a "Blank.ace" file from elsewhere and put in the Textures folder in P&WV. Then re-started MSTS and loaded the route. It started perfectly without one single missing shape or texture file message.Now for the crunch. Nice-looking route alright... but none of the train movement was enjoyable at all, as the frames per second rate was sitting on 5 fps ! Very first time this has happened to me. My computer is a PIII 866 with 64 Mb of video ram and 512 Mb of system memory. Mostly very adequate for MSTS in a lot of cases. But not this route. This slow fps rate continued over the 4-5 miles I drove my BN Alco C-425 and it finally dawned on me that the reason for this very slow and unrealistic framerate was mostly entirely due to the probably very high-poly telegraph poles stretching along the entire route quite possibly. They're good poles and look far more realistic than the FBL poles which seem like matchsticks, but are OK for framerates easily.I think maybe but for these high-poly poles on this route, it would allow better framerates by a long shot. The only way I could get smooth movement at all was when I panned the headout view to the side, like looking straight out the engineer's window, and this worked fine but I couldn't really see the road ahead without the slow stuttering framerate re-appearing again. I wonder if it's at all possible for the author of this excellent route, to offer a patch of sorts for those of us who can't run his route with those poles, because of our slower machines, and maybe this patch could change all the hi-poly poles into much lower poly ones so we can at least enjoy this route to it's full extent ?There was absolutely no warning in the ReadMe file about the possibility of these poles causing serious slow-downs on slower machines, so I had no idea at all. I probably would not have bothered wasting all this time downloading this route if the File_id.diz had explained on the download screen where the route file was located, that a certain minimum-specification CPU was needed to allow trains to run on this route smoothly. Bummer, eh ?Regards...Jim McDermott

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Never said the were not the other than the blank.ace. But while I was in explorer I noticed that tehy were uncompressed. So I fired up Route Riter and compressed them. It is just as I was there I may as well fix that also. Then I fired up MSTS and all the messages have gone away.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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Jim you could go thru and delete the poles.But it's very time consuming.I pretty much have the same setup as your machine and was very disappointed in the framerates.I'm almost to the point of deleting it until I can afford a better machine.

Claude350 Piedmont Division Raleigh East
cdebnam@bellsouth.net

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Claude, swap out the posles ro other lower poly ones.You can do this one of two ways:1. This is common for both methods. Get the low poly poles you want to use. You will need the s, sd, and ace files. Copy them somewhere for the time being.
Method 1
2. Open the RE and the route. Find a telephone pole. In the one wondow, click on the house with the arrow, it stay depressed. Now left click on a ploe to select it. Then left click to get the properties of it in a window. Write down the s file name (I think that is what is listed.). Close the RE, answaering no to save changes, that way you do not screw up things by mistake. (I did and had to reinstall a route one time - lesson learned)
3. Check in the shapes folder for the route to make sure that is there.
4. Rename the files from step one so they are the same as the ones you want to replace and copy them into the right folder, overwriting the ones there.
Method 2
2. Troll around in the texture folder to find the ace file. TGAtools can be used to check to make sure you have the right pole.
3. Rename the files from step one so they are the same as the ones you want to replace and copy them into the right folder, overwriting the ones there. That should do it.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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Thanks Kevin.i think I'll try this method.I like the route and I'm not ready to get rid of it just yet.

Claude350 Piedmont Division Raleigh East
cdebnam@bellsouth.net

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Kevin, I just downloaded your activity. I'm sorry I'm posting this here, for some reason your site will not take my sign in or send me my password. Anyway, I swapped out the player engines for the NW Alco 628s that were in today's files (long live ALCO!), and that was sneaky to have that dwarf signal change as you're bringing out the 1st cut of cars! Also, That bridge at the end of the yard is unbelievable! What detail, I felt like I was going to get a nose bleed from the height.Mike

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-03 AT 11:17 PM (EDT)

Did you email Marc, he is real good about getting people hooked up. That is the way it is, in fact I think it is a bit furthur than it is in the route. When you head out the Parkway from downtown, you can get a really good look at the yard from it.Really the SD40-2 shouldn't be on that line to the mine. It probably should be a 40 or an 38.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-03 AT 12:09 PM (EDT)

Well after doing some testing with the telepoles in the route I've found out that it's not just the poles but the building in the route also contribute to the slow framerates.Some of the building have high poly counts.I did replace the poles and still had framerate problems.

Claude350 Piedmont Division Raleigh East
cdebnam@bellsouth.net

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>Well after doing some testing with the telepoles in the
>route I've found out that it's not just the poles but the
>building in the route also contribute to the slow
>framerates.Some of the building have high poly counts.I did
>replace the poles and still had framerate problems. Well, that fixes it for now I guess. I won't be able to run this excellent-looking route on my machine after all, unless I want to see generic framerates throughout eh ? I still think the author, if he made the route on a very high-end machine, and other authors as well, have to remember that not everyone out there can afford a whizz-bang 3 Ghz P4 or whatever the CPU brand is, for various reasons. So the alternative to post a warning clearly in the File_id.diz that this such-and-such route is not worth downloading if you don't have anything over a P4 2.4 Ghz etc. Thius is considered fair by myself, to save wasting time & HDD space downloading something that's not going to look nice while running it on your pathetic 866 Mhz machine.I'm completely sure that a lot of persons creating routes and the necessary objects could well take into account those of us with slower machines than they might have, and make objects as low-poly as they possibly can without making them look shoddy. Take for example, the default freight cars for the original (and version 1.2 as well) MSTS. The cement and refrigerator cars are able to allow you to have even as many as 50 or more cars on a train without framerates being too low... that's how I reckon freight cars and passenger cars etc. should be made at all times, because I'm not fussy about how good or bad vehicles are, to a certain low point though. The default cars and even the replacements in the file US2Repl.zip are excellent, and sensible, so that almost anyone with a computer even as low as 466 Mhz where the CPU comes in, can run a certain number of these cars nicely.... that's what I feel is the crucial point where enjoyment of MSTS comes in, or goes out... the poly count of buildings and objects or rolling stock.There ARe those around who want nothing short of perfection in models, but I say that they can still look good without compromising frame rates, by a long shot. Take for example, the Full Bucket Line set of a goodly number of riveted passenger cars in orange and white. They look truly excellent, albeit slightly "European" in flavour, but nonetheless really, really good. They also allow me to run ten or more of them smoothly and easily and view them outside with no hassles whatsoever. Yet the series of passenger train sets with locos that've appeared on the Train-Sim site in recent weeks, all have the habit of dropping my framerates to about 10-11 and they don't view outside as smoothly as you might desire, at least on my 866 Mhz machine. To cap it all - I say that modellers can definitely still make objects and whatever, that are low-poly, but still very acceptable to the majority of us out there, who just want to RUN MSTS and drive over routes that look nice but let your train run nicely as well, without stutter, except maybe, in the case of thick forests, which makes stutter even in faster machines. Well, maybe MSTS 2 will have a more optimised platform, but maybe then, my 866 Mhz machine won't run things as nicely either. Well, folks, that's progress... even if it IS a little disappointing, after having to wait over half my life for something like MSTS to appear and let me drive trains like I dreamed of most of the time... and only to find that "progress slows you down" - literally !Regards...Jim McDermott

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There isn't much out there that will not run like junk on that machine, it way past time to upgrade.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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>There isn't much out there that will not run like junk on
>that machine, it way past time to upgrade. Then maybe you don't have to worry too much about finances as I have to ? Maybe you don't have a disabled partner to care for day in and day out, and survive on a Govt. benefit because you're unable to work full-time, having to be there for your partner, and not having as much free time to yourself except late at night maybe, after she's gone to bed ? We don't all have as many options as you seem to. The only time I'll be able to afford the ultimate computer is when my elderly father passes away and I get money from the sale of his home and property... being an only child, this is all mine but I don't like to think of things like that until they do happen, but that's my only option currently. There's a lot that runs on my machine for that matter, and quite well in fact. Or do you upgrade your machine everytime your framerates drop by 5 fps ? Regards...One of the "Have-Nots"

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Sorry, didn't realize I was going to get your life story, not that I care. All I made was an obervation that is was past time to upgrade. No, I don't upgrade often, maybe a piece a year.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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Jim you could also move the slider to the left so as not to have alot of objects showing,reduce the distance at which objects appear.You could also mplay around with the texture sliders.last resort would be to open the RE and delete some of the building in th conjested areas such as around York.

Claude350 Piedmont Division Raleigh East
cdebnam@bellsouth.net

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Hello Jim,
Don't let a slow machine stop you from running my route. I only have a PIII 866 and I created the route. I wanted to add a lot of detail for a selfish reason; it brings back happy child hood memories. Usually I run my route with the visibility slider set between 750 & 1000, this gives me pretty good frame rates. I also like using the number 2 view looking down at the lead unit at an angle, see attached screen shot. I'm not an artist, so everything you see in the route was downloaded from the file library, with the exception of the telegraph poles. I don't know anything about poly counts and LOD's, I'm just a model railroader converted to Train Sim route builder. Like you I do hope MSTS 2 allows faster frame rates on a low-end machine, but if the rest of the gaming community is any sign of things to come, I doubt it. We will probably be forced into upgrading to a faster CPU, more memory and a faster video card. Anyway thank you for downloading my route, my hope is maybe you can get a little enjoyment from it Take care,
Rich S.

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3f837aec2ae63436.jpg

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well, even though my machine is the lowest of the low - PII 350 - I downloaded the route because the scenery reminded me so much of western PA. It's definitely a keeper for me...Thanks Rich, for sharing you time and effort with us. On this end, it is much appreciated...Tim Baldwin
Buffalo, NY

Tim Baldwin
Buffalo NY

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>Hello Jim,
> Don't let a slow machine stop you from running my route.
>I only have a PIII 866 and I created the route. I wanted to
>add a lot of detail for a selfish reason; it brings back
>happy child hood memories. Usually I run my route with the
>visibility slider set between 750 & 1000, this gives me
>pretty good frame rates. I also like using the number 2 view
>looking down at the lead unit at an angle, see attached
>screen shot. I'm not an artist, so everything you see in the
>route was downloaded from the file library, with the
>exception of the telegraph poles. I don't know anything
>about poly counts and LOD's, I'm just a model railroader
>converted to Train Sim route builder. Like you I do hope
>MSTS 2 allows faster frame rates on a low-end machine, but
>if the rest of the gaming community is any sign of things to
>come, I doubt it. We will probably be forced into upgrading
>to a faster CPU, more memory and a faster video card. Anyway
>thank you for downloading my route, my hope is maybe you can
>get a little enjoyment from it
>
>Take care,
>Rich S. Hey, well, that was decent of you, the person whom I appeared to be "complaining" about in the first instance, actually replying to my post... gee, thanks for that I'll heed your idea regarding the visibility slider in the properties area, and see what that does, or doesn't do for me. If you have more or less the same CPU as I do, then created that route using that machine, well, I'm just curious as to what your reactions to the slow framerates were, even though you apparently enjoy the route itself ? If you do get the sort of better framerates as you say, then it can't be quite so bad then. Any port in a storm I say. And regarding a faster CPU, it will of course, mean having the motherboard upgraded as well, and the faster CPU added, and this normally means about $750 or around that much for an upgrade. A lot of money for persons in our situation, but that would have to wait until some of our credit card is paid off before we can afford that much, or my father goes first, whichever is the closer, but I can't live with myself thinking of things like that you know. Here's hoping your idea re visibility slider will bear fruit eh ? Cheers !Regards...Jim McDermott

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Jim,I have been runing the P&WV on both a P4 2.4 gig machine with 2 gig of memory and ATI vid card, and a PIII 550 with 512 meg of memory and TI card.On the P4 I can turn on everything, and max everything out and still get around 15-30 fps with out any problems. On the PIII 550, with distance set to 750-1000, spectacular lighting off, and dynamic shadows off, I can pull over 15 fps for most of the route.I would suggest you start with making sure both lighting and shadow are unchecked and set the distance somewhere between 750-1000, then if still needed start to lower some of the other sliders and see if you can get a frame rate you can live with.Do not get me wrong, the P&WV does eat up the graphics, as a comparison only, with the P4 and same settings, I typically get 55 fps with the D&H route. But want to also let you know that even at 15-30 on the P&WV, it is still smooth enough to be enjoyable, and even on the PIII 550 with graphics settings adjusted it is also enjoyable, but for some reason on it, I run into the old ' Great White Void' every now and then. But still love the route, lots of memories, and it is so well captured to boot.
Don

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Don't feel to bad, it ran at 9 fps on my 2.4ghz P4. -- JBrownCS

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>Don't feel to bad, it ran at 9 fps on my 2.4ghz P4.
>
>-- JBrownCS Heh... Well, now, that DOES make me feel kinda better, you know.
Regards...Jim McDermottP.S. - And the guy who produced the route in question actually did it on a PIII 866 - the same specs as mine - although I don't know what his video card's memory quantity was - mine is 64 Mb, and I have 512 Mb of system ram, and fat lot of good that did

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then I guess my 1-4 fps will make everybody else feel grand. still I love the route, and I'll tolerate a little herky jerky action to view that scenery until the time comes that i can afford a better machine...
Tim Baldwin
Buffalo NY

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Thanks Kevin
Never would have got it going without your post.
Joe

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