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sniper297 (170 posts)
Aug-10-01, 10:11 PM (EST) "Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a can of Raid?" Port Ogden and Northern route install, EZstuff.bat, Stuffit.bat. Gonna have to change my online name from "Sniper" to "Bugs". There is a bug in all three that somebody else on this forum discovered, and Jim Stevens, who has been working his butt off to try to get us route developers something that we can actually make GOOD routes with, says that it probably isn't a good idea to use the batch files to copy into routes. I've been finding that out myself the last couple of days, because the first three systems I tested it on it worked fine, but yesterday I tried the install.bat from port ogden on a K6-2 450 with 64mb of ram and it missed a whole bunch of files. Something about so many CALL commands overloading the memory, or going too fast for it. If you are going to continue to use the batch files, at your own risk of course, it would be a good idea to fix them. I'm not going to upload any kind of patch for STUFFIT.BAT, because EZSTUFF.BAT was designed to replace it,
and I'm not going to patch EZSTUFF either until I hear from Jim Stevens. If you want to fix either one of them yourself, it's fairly easy to do. Right click on the batch file (or shift right click, depending on your setup) and select "open with", and open with wordpad. In the wordpad toolbar, click on FIND then REPLACE. In the FIND box type " autumn*.* " . (Notice there is no space between "autumn" and "*.*") In the REPLACE box type " autumn\*.* " . (Yup, I left out the backslash, and of course every time I copied and pasted that section the typo went with it. You didn't think I typed that all out by hand, did you?) Then click REPLACE ALL and that will fix it as good as it's ever going to get fixed.
For those of you who haven't been following the topic of the monumental task that Jim Stevens is working on, this program has thousands of different objects in it, some of which are unique to one route, and many of which are duplicated in another. When I created the batch file I figured that anything that was overwritten by a file of the same name wouldn't matter, because when I was manually copying and pasting whole folders it didn't seem to affect anything. But apparently there are a whole bunch of objects in some routes that use the exact same filename as objects in other routes that have different shapes or textures. So I guess in the early days when some people, like myself, were having success with comboref, and others had nothing but trouble, it was because it depends heavily on what order you copy the files in as to which ones are overwritten. PORT OGDEN AND NORTHERN. The worst trouble with trying to create a route based on only one of the stock routes that came with the game is that there are a lot of objects in each of the stock routes, but the one you need is always in another. Just in bridges alone, there are two from Japan2, one from USA2, and one from Europe1. And I got a UN melting pot of industrial buildings in there. So I created the PO&N using all the objects from all the routes, and it was 445 megabytes total. After I finished the route, I was thinking about some of you guys with the low end systems and limited hard disk space, so I spent about a week chopping and hacking to try to get the finished size down as small as possible, something like 265 megabytes. So if you're having trouble installing it, the quick and dirty way is to copy everything from every route, which will ballon it up around 450 to 500 mb, but the best way if you are fairly adept with computers is to copy all the shapes and textures from all the routes except europe2, and make a batch file by copying the following off your screen, pasting it into wordpad, and saving it as fix.bat or something,and run it from the Port_Ogden folder.call xcopy ..\..\TEMPLATE\sound\*.* .\sound\*.*
call xcopy ..\..\TEMPLATE\Envfiles\*.* .\Envfiles\*.*
call xcopy ..\..\TEMPLATE\Envfiles\Textures\*.* .\Envfiles\Textures\*.*
call xcopy ..\..\TEMPLATE\terrtex\terrain.ace .\terrtex\
call xcopy ..\..\TEMPLATE\terrtex\microtex.ace .\terrtex\
call xcopy ..\..\TEMPLATE\terrtex\SNOW\terrain.ace .\terrtex\SNOW\
call xcopy ..\..\TEMPLATE\terrtex\SNOW\microtex.ace .\terrtex\SNOW\
call xcopy ..\europe2\TerrTex\oemountm.ace .\Terrtex\
call xcopy ..\europe2\TerrTex\SNOW\oemountm.ace .\Terrtex\SNOW\
call xcopy ..\europe2\TerrTex\oemountd.ace .\Terrtex\
call xcopy ..\europe2\TerrTex\SNOW\oemountd.ace .\Terrtex\SNOW\
call xcopy ..\usa2\TerrTex\us2scrub2.ace .\Terrtex\
call xcopy ..\usa2\TerrTex\SNOW\us2scrub2.ace .\Terrtex\SNOW\
call xcopy ..\usa2\TerrTex\us2tarmac.ace .\Terrtex\
call xcopy ..\usa2\TerrTex\SNOW\us2tarmac.ace .\Terrtex\SNOW\
call xcopy ..\usa2\TerrTex\us2tarmacscrub2half.ace .\Terrtex\
call xcopy ..\usa2\TerrTex\SNOW\us2tarmacscrub2half.ace .\Terrtex\SNOW\
call xcopy ..\usa2\TerrTex\us2tarmacscrub2quart.ace .\Terrtex\
call xcopy ..\usa2\TerrTex\SNOW\us2tarmacscrub2quart.ace .\Terrtex\SNOW\
call xcopy ..\usa2\TerrTex\us2tarmacscrub2quart2.ace .\Terrtex\
call xcopy ..\usa2\TerrTex\SNOW\us2tarmacscrub2quart2.ace .\Terrtex\SNOW\If you're hard pressed for disk space that's the best way to do it, because there are no sound regions so all you
need are the default template sounds, and I only used the above 7 terrain texture tiles, so I didn't see any point in using 168 megabytes of terrtex files. So there are a bunch of different workarounds, but keep giving me feedback on how you're doing. One thing I'd like to know, since this is my first distributed route, is if everyone is getting US2scrub2.ace as the default texture, or if some of you (or all of you?) had the doggone thing go and change back to the green grass terrain.ace? Let me hear from you! Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a... JMSteven_W98 Aug-10-01 1 RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a... sniper297 Aug-11-01 2 RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a... JMSteven_W98 Aug-11-01 3 RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a... sniper297 Aug-11-01 4 RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a... ChckHbrt Aug-11-01 5 RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a... PcKiller Aug-11-01 6 RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a... sniper297 Aug-11-01 7 RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a... trainee Aug-12-01 8

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JMSteven_W98 (274 posts)
Aug-10-01, 10:54 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a can of Raid?" LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-01 AT 10:55 PM (EST)Well, actually I don't think the "Orkin Man" has the power to fix the Train Simulator Route editor. Stable - yeah that's where we keep the horses - it's not a general term for the editor.....I'm testing a C++ program that reads both Unicode and Ascii text files that will let us handle the route objects. This will release us from the operating system specifics that I mention in my own ReadMe files for the archives I posted and from issues with batch commands that may not work for everyone.The interface uses two "tree list" views. One view is the "source" and the other the "destination".Drag and drop and multiple selection are enabled. The current build produces a Kuju-style listing that another module reads to create these files:CARSPAWN.DAT
FORESTS.DAT
route.ref
SSOURCE.DAT
TTYPES.DAT
I'm working on the signal logic now or you would see SIGCFG.DAT and SIGSCR.DAT in the list too. The first beta should be next week and will manage the full twelve config files.A co-worker who destroyed my "Combat War Cow" tonight in "Unreal" suggested I create checkboxes for options.I'm trying to keep the EXE size small since this is only a utility program. (Currently 32 kB Win 32 GUI EXE - no additional DLL's)The specifications will be posted Saturday night.
Jim Steven, MCSE
Sr Microsoft Windows Application Developer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sniper297 (170 posts)
Aug-11-01, 02:13 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a can of Raid?" What I'm curious about is why somebody can't hack the game engine to include a path to search for a file in any of the subdirectories under it. Then you could classify the objects according to type, put all the bridges, for instance, in something like \bridges\shapes and \bridges\textures so you wouldn't need shapes textures or sounds for any of the routes - it would all be global. I know YOU have a bigger problem tho - trying to figure out what and where everything is. Your Allobjects made it considerably easier to hunt for the kind of building I want, the original ref files didn't have anything in a logical order. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
JMSteven_W98 (274 posts)
Aug-11-01, 03:00 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a can of Raid?" I thought I had something three months ago when I tweaked all game files in the "template" folder so they had fully qualified path names. I dumped all texture files into the Template\textures and sub folders.Most objects worked well until it became night. Then the engine searched the new route's \Textures\Night folder and failed to find what it needed.The engine even does a function call to get the current directory when it starts up so it can be restored on exit. That's why you can use a command line like "D:\TrainSim\TRAIN.EXE" while logged onto some other drive.Since the MS C++ runtime library imports other path and directory functions into the EXE when you use any one of them, I thought Kuju would at least have logic to search the system's path.For some O.S. it works and for others it fails. They abandoned the idea. Any game should be allowed to create paths like that.I worked on some of the "Tales of the Sword Coast" with Black Isle studios (Baldur's Gate) and that game uses a bunch of folders. They did hard code some folder names in there, but they created a folder called "overrides" that is included in the search. If the system finds something it needs in there, it won't look in the usual places.Jim Steven, MCSE
Sr Microsoft Windows Application Developer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sniper297 (170 posts)
Aug-11-01, 03:22 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a can of Raid?" LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-01 AT 03:36 AM (EST)LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-01 AT 03:26 AM (EST)Well, I know you guys are doing your best. I get ticked at MS a lot because I've been using their stuff since I bought DOS 3.1 for a tandy 1000tx back in '85 (remember when computers came without operating systems, and you had to buy one seperately?) I got so disgusted with 4.0 that I didn't even try 4.1 - went to linux about 6 mos, then DRDOS 5&6. Went back to msdos 5.0 because of incompatibility with a few programs, especially the one I wanted to run the most, and would never work on DRDOS -
F-15 Strike Eagle 3. But as much as I complain about this one, the king of all buggy programs, wizards and warriors, still has MSTS beat by a wide margin.
Anyway, I learned a lot of lessons from this route, and I've already started the next, but before I even start laying track I plan to pick out all the objects form the routes I want to use and write down the name of each file, because I've discovered that there are literally hundreds of objects I have absolutely no use for. And I'm going to use USA2.ref as a template, add a few objects, and set a batch file to individually copy each set of files. I still don't understand what it is about the batch that makes it drop all the refernces to japan1 on the slower machines - I even tried breaking it into 4 sections, running one batch at a time to let that old 64mb K6-2 450 catch it's breath, but it ends up missing the same files from japan1 anyway. Why would it work on one AMD and not another? Memory overflow? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ChckHbrt (174 posts)
Aug-11-01, 04:47 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a can of Raid?"
A can of Raid won't help. You need to go on bug hunt. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
PcKiller (13 posts)
Aug-11-01, 08:57 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a can of Raid?" LAST EDITED ON Aug-11-01 AT 08:58 AM (EST)So, is there a way to repair this route or not? If not, then I will delete it till it is fixed in a later version. What I did see, looked nice. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sniper297 (170 posts)
Aug-11-01, 11:50 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a can of Raid?" Port Ogden and Northern - progress report. Or maybe I should say lack of progress. I uploaded gitstufd.zip a few minutes ago, with stuffit2.bat and ezstuff2.bat, with all the typos fixed in both. Anyone still having problems with the install for Port Ogden and Northern can download the zip, and paste either one of the batch files into the root of Port_Ogden and run it. This will increase the finished install size to 441 megabytes, so you guys with the old 2 gig hard disks who are pressed for space are going to have to wait until I can figure out what the problem is. Again, the only difference between the two is that EZstuff2 is primarily meant to be used as a template for a customizable install batch file for distribution with homegrown routes, and contains an IFEXIST error switch to check for the presence of train.exe two directorys up, making it next to impossible to run it anywhere other than in a route. Be advised, if you paste it into one of the existing routes, it WILL find Train.exe two directorys up and happily copy 438 megabytes into that folder. My mistake (other than the typos) was trying to customize it too much to get the final installed size of the route down to a reasonable size. My son is visiting his mother this weekend, so I took his computer apart, pulled the ram out and put in an old stick of 32 mb pc-66 ram, and reset the jumpers on the motherboard to UNDERclock it to 350 mhz, but still couldn't duplicate the problem, so I gave up going at it from that angle, and I'm making a list of everything that I used in the route to try to get a workable install bat that will keep the size down to 200 mb, or preferably less. Until then, run ezstuff on it and let me know if you have any other problems.Jim Ward Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
trainee (6 posts)
Aug-12-01, 11:10 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Bugs, Bugs, Bugs. Anybody got a can of Raid?" Oh Oh, wait till your son comes back from his mothers,I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.
Tore his computer up "OUCH" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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