Route Fails to Load at "Establishing World Space and Co

Tried this on the Route Developers forum without response yet, so I thought I'd check the larger audience on this forum. (Can't find any previous threads.)After the latest changes to the route I am developing (Old Colony-Newport), I can no longer get it to load for testing. All other routes (stock and freeware) load and run successfully. The load fails at the "Establishing World Space and Content" step. I have laid only track at this point, no buildings, bridges, signals, etc. When I first got the problem, I ran a track database rebuild, which finished successfully, but did not solve the problem. Any help, pointers, suggestions, would be appreciated. I really hope they don't involve reverting to my back-up copy, because I like the way the Fall River Yard looks after the latest changes. Charlie
Newport, RIps: My MSTS computer has been shakey lately, but this problem does not seem to be related to that one (which was a video problem).

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More info on....Route Fails to Load at "Establishing Wo, CharlieB, Jun-01-03, 10:00 AM, (1) RE: More info on....Route Fails to Load at "Establishin, CharlieB, Jun-01-03, 10:33 AM, (2) RE: Route Fails to Load at, OTTODAD, Jun-01-03, 01:12 PM, (3) RE: Route Fails to Load at, sniper297, Jun-01-03, 02:10 PM, (4) RE: Route Fails to Load at, CharlieB, Jun-01-03, 02:45 PM, (6) RE: Route Fails to Load at, OTTODAD, Jun-01-03, 05:36 PM, (9) RE: Route Fails to Load at, CharlieB, Jun-01-03, 02:24 PM, (5) SOLUTION! RE: Route Fails to Load at "Establishing Wo, CharlieB, Jun-01-03, 03:26 PM, (7) RE: SOLUTION! RE: Route Fails to Load at, OTTODAD, Jun-01-03, 05:27 PM, (8) RE: SOLUTION! RE: Route Fails to Load at, sniper297, Jun-01-03, 11:12 PM, (10)

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On more checking, I've found that I can get Explore Route to load and run, if I choose my starting point some distance from where I've been working on the track. I can run Explore Route up to the point where I begin to approach the area where I've been working, then it freezes up and gives me the "phone home" message. I haven't been able to determine if this is a tile boundary yet, but I'm working on it. None of my test activities will run because they all start closer to where I've been working. Maybe that will give someone an idea. Charlie
Newport, RI

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Yup...MSTS crashes just before the test engine crosses over into the next tile. This is a tile where the track runs right along the eastern edge of the tile. Charlie

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Difficult to give you a straight answer because what you are doing is something nobody else has done, encountering similar problems !I would suggest you rip up the track you laid last until you get to the point where everything works as should and then gingerly relay the track, piece by piece, checking your progress by running a new TEST Activity every step of the way.Until the Route is finished I would not bother with any but ONE TEST Activity, re-created after every change of Track Laout !O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-03 AT 02:17 PM (EDT)

Yup, pretty much gotta go with Ottodad on this one, you're not getting answers cuz there ain't none. I saw your post in the RE forum, but I don't know the answer either. Welcome to the route developers club, hope your mental health insurance is paid up."I can no longer get it to load for testing. All other routes (stock and freeware) load and run successfully. The load fails at the "Establishing World Space and Content" step."Fails as in lock up, crash, send/don't send? Any error messages that might give a clue?
"I have laid only track at this point, no buildings, bridges, signals, etc."How about roads?"When I first got the problem, I ran a track database rebuild, which finished successfully, but did not solve the problem."
Rebuilds can APPEAR to be successful and screw everything up. Five files in the root folder of your route, substitute whatever your route is called for "RouteName":RouteName.rdb
RouteName.rit
RouteName.tdb
RouteName.tit
tsection.datIf you have no roads you shouldn't have a RouteName.rdb (the road database, gets rebuilt along with the track database), and with no interactive objects you shouldn't have either of the .tit or .rit files.So you should see;RouteName.tdb
tsection.datalong with some .bk files. .tdb is the snap track sections, tsection.dat is the dynamic track sections, and all the visual position, elevation, & direction info for both is in all the \World files.
For a proper rebuild, the RouteName.rdb (if any) and RouteName.tdb files plus the associated .bk files should be deleted first. If you have no interactive objects, but somehow got the .tit or .rit files anyway, delete them. Then run the TDB rebuild and it won't try to take shortcuts. If all else fails, the TDB rebuild takes all of its data from the \World\1234567-9876543.w files, so:Delete the .tdb (and .rdb, if any) files. Open the route editor without doing the rebuild, and fly over to the bad area (without the .tdb all those track sections are just static objects, so it should let you). Examine the track, particularly looking for things like switches that don't have something attached to the base of the switch, and delete whatever track sections you think you can do without. Save, exit, ALL THE WAY BACK TO DESKTOP (important, RE doesn't release RAM properly), then relaunch the editors, open the RE, select your route, and run the TDB rebuild again.Shortcut, delete all the above files, then if you can find which .w file has the bad track on it, delete that and run the rebuild.Good luck with it, altho I strongly suspect you're gonna have to restore from a backup anyway.http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=4559&forum=DCForumID6&archive=yes

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Sniper...Thanks for getting back to me on this...when no one answers, you don't know if you're being ignored or if there is no answer, as is apparently the case here. In response to your question about exactly what "fails" means:If I choose a test that starts near where I've been laying track, when the load gets to the "Establishing World..." step, it stalls, but MSTS keeps trying for a while. Eventually, the "send/don't send" message appears and MSTS closes. If I choose a test that starts some distance from the problem area, MSTS completes the load and I can drive the engine until I approach the tile I've been working on. Then MSTS stops (freezes the screen) and sometimes shows the "send/don't send"; other times I must reboot. In response to your question about roads:No, I've never placed any roads on this route. There is no OldColony.rdb file. The only thing other than track that I have placed on this route is the stock tree, which I use to mark where I want to lay track. With regard to the track database rebuild:Didn't know to delete the .tdb file, so didn't do it. Will try that and let you know if it helps or not. With regard to the .w files:That will be a last resort. As you may be aware from a recent thread in route design, I know a little bit about how these files are named, so should be able to find it. The trouble is, a "little bit" of knowledge can be a dangerous thing, so we do that one last. Once again..thanks for the info.Charlie
Newport, RI

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Hi Jim !>Delete the .tdb (and .rdb, if any) files. Open the route
>editor without doing the rebuild, and fly over to the bad
>area (without the .tdb all those track sections are just
>static objects, so it should let you). Aha, I thought, perhaps doing this I can access and see all there is in one of the N.&.J.C.'s damaged World Tiles, not showing me any tracks. But going into the RE with the *.tdb Renamed I get all sorts of Error Messages about missing "Markers", Sidings, Car Spawners, etc.O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-03 AT 02:26 PM (EDT)

Otto...Thanks for your comments. Thought I'd try a few things before I started ripping up the tracks I just laid. (In fact, if it comes to that, I may just revert to my last good back-up and start over.)Tried cutting back to one test activity. Just to be safe, I manually deleted all the activity, service and path files, and created a single new one. In the path editor, I placed the start point on a spur near where I have been working on the track. As usual, the path editor automatically ran a path to the farthest point on the track and set an end point there. I left the end point where it was set, because that is where I would have set it anyway. When I tried to save the path, I was informed that the path had a problem and the service was labeled with the "(broken path)" notation. I can isolate the stretch of track that has the problem by moving the end point, but... On inspection of the track in RE there appears to be nothing that would cause a broken path there. (Remember, the path editor thought everything was OK in that stretch when it set the start and end points automatically.) So the question is: What would cause the service editor to reject the path, when both the path editor and RE show it as good? And...as a corollary, why does that cause the load to fail?Charlie
Newport, RI

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Hey Sniper!Hidden in your comments was the phrase: "switches that don't have something attached to the base of the switch". Well, I was pretty sure I had all my switches connected properly, but I took one last look, after trying to figure out why the path problems were occurring in AE. Lo-and-behold! The very last piece of track, the place where path editor wanted to place the end point, was a switch with nothing beyond it. That's where I stopped laying track and wanted to test things out. I added a 50m straight (arbitrary choice) to the base of the switch and eveything now works! No more bombing out at the "Establishing..."Thanks to you and Otto...some times just trying to explain the problem leads to the solution. Charlie
Newport, RI

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There again, Charlie, if it wasn't for SNIPER some of us would be going round in circles forever ! O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-03 AT 11:21 PM (EDT)

With apologies to Tigger, "goin' around in circles is what snipers do best!"Hee-hee, yeah, I mentioned it in passing since it's one of those well known things among the pioneers, but newbie route developers oughtta get it tattooed on their foreheads,
NEVER NEVER NEVER LEAVE THE BASE OF A SWITCH UNCONNECTED FOR ANY REASON.
There are some threads buried in the route design forum archives somewhere, "avoiding track problems" or something.Typical scenario, I'm laying double track, make a crossover, and since the track splits here I'm gonna keep laying track on the left, I'll get back to the right hand track later. I can create a path on the left track going either way, but if I'm driving from lower left to upper right on that lefthand track and throw that switch, the path tracer looks for an end-of-the-line blue pole and don't find one, crash-bang-boom send-don't send. Running a path into that unconnected switch base in the activity editor will also trash that so it can't be opened again for any route until that .pat file is deleted, and of course rebuilding the TDB with one of those is the end of the TDB.Important safety rule, if you're just laying out switches connect a temporary 10 meter straight section to the base, you can delete it later when you add the real track. The track database and path tracing are probably two of the most fragile, unstable buggy subroutines in the entire program, so avoiding the triggers is a must.Otto, "But going into the RE with the *.tdb Renamed I get all sorts of Error Messages about missing "Markers", Sidings, Car Spawners, etc.", see that link for the route folder structure. The reason I say successful TDB rebuilds are extremely iffy when there are any interactive objects at all is because that info is entered into three different files;RouteName.tdb
RouteName.tit
\World\~.w fileCarspawners would be in the .rit and .rdb, and a grade crossing (BR. "level crossing") will be in all four files, rdb, rit, tdb, tit, (LevelCrItem) plus the .w file for the quad it's located on. That's why it's strongly suggested to lay all track first and make sure it's perfect before adding any interactive objects.I have tried deleting the .tdb and .tit together and running the rebuild, so far that's resulted in only losing the signals and siding markers and whatnot. If you want to go into the RE to delete buggy track sections, you have to rename or move both the .tdb and .tit, that turns all signals, siding markers, etc. into static objects. Then after getting rid of the track you move the .tit back in and pray before running the rebuild. Garber claims eating fresh pineapples beforehand helps keep the "out of synch" demons away. I can't argue with him, he might be right.

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