GM&O Route Reports

The previous thread was just getting WAY too big to download so let's start fresh...Please use this thread to leave comments, bug/error reports, etc. to Team GM&O.Thanks for your continued support!Jim Duncan
Paul FowlerTeam GM&O

Jim Duncan
Team GM&O

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RE: GM&O Route Reports, buttercup, Apr-18-03, 11:03 AM, (1) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jester116th, Apr-18-03, 04:14 PM, (2) RE: GM&O Route Reports, dphorton, Apr-18-03, 05:07 PM, (3) RE: GM&O Route Reports, buttercup, Apr-18-03, 07:16 PM, (4) RE: GM&O Route Reports, dphorton, Apr-18-03, 07:19 PM, (5) RE: GM&O Route Reports, Claude350, Apr-18-03, 07:43 PM, (6) RE: GM&O Route Reports, GMOF3A, Apr-18-03, 08:24 PM, (8) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jtsdadinaz, Apr-18-03, 07:48 PM, (7) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jdtrainman, Apr-18-03, 09:57 PM, (9) RE: GM&O Route Reports, sniper297, Apr-18-03, 10:52 PM, (10) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jtsdadinaz, Apr-19-03, 07:43 AM, (11) RE: GM&O Route Reports, bebob, Apr-19-03, 12:35 PM, (12) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jdtrainman, Apr-19-03, 01:00 PM, (13) RE: GM&O Route Reports, bebob, Apr-19-03, 09:44 PM, (14) RE: GM&O Route Reports, sniper297, Apr-19-03, 10:09 PM, (15) RE: GM&O Route Reports, GMOF3A, Apr-19-03, 10:35 PM, (16) RE: GM&O Route Reports, bebob, Apr-20-03, 00:40 AM, (17) RE: GM&O Route Reports, sniper297, Apr-20-03, 00:50 AM, (18) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jdtrainman, Apr-20-03, 02:41 AM, (19) RE: GM&O Route Reports, cnw8717, Apr-20-03, 11:36 AM, (20) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jdtrainman, Apr-20-03, 12:09 PM, (21) RE: GM&O Route Reports, sniper297, Apr-20-03, 01:25 PM, (22) RE: GM&O Route Reports, SD80MAC, Apr-20-03, 02:00 PM, (23) RE: GM&O Route Reports, sniper297, Apr-20-03, 02:48 PM, (24) RE: GM&O Route Reports, Coonskin, Apr-20-03, 03:27 PM, (25) RE: GM&O Route Reports, oldiedaddy, Apr-20-03, 03:53 PM, (26) RE: GM&O Route Reports, sniper297, Apr-20-03, 04:35 PM, (27) RE: GM&O Route Reports, rgarber, Apr-20-03, 05:08 PM, (28) RE: GM&O Route Reports, sniper297, Apr-20-03, 06:35 PM, (29) RE: GM&O Route Reports, rgarber, Apr-20-03, 07:55 PM, (30) RE: GM&O Route Reports, oldiedaddy, Apr-20-03, 07:57 PM, (31) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jdtrainman, Apr-20-03, 09:15 PM, (34) RE: GM&O Route Reports, GMOF3A, Apr-20-03, 08:51 PM, (33) RE: GM&O Route Reports, GMOF3A, Apr-20-03, 08:48 PM, (32) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jdtrainman, Apr-20-03, 09:18 PM, (35) RE: GM&O Route Reports, sniper297, Apr-20-03, 10:37 PM, (36) RE: GM&O Route Reports, MikeSimpson, Apr-25-03, 00:22 AM, (39) RE: GM&O Route Reports, oldiedaddy, Apr-26-03, 08:53 AM, (40) RE: GM&O Route Reports, wdq4587, Apr-29-03, 03:29 AM, (44) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jtsdadinaz, Apr-24-03, 09:50 PM, (37) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jdtrainman, Apr-24-03, 10:06 PM, (38) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jpmurd, Apr-28-03, 09:57 PM, (41) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jdtrainman, Apr-28-03, 11:05 PM, (42) RE: GM&O Route Reports, jleslie, Apr-28-03, 11:12 PM, (43)

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Got it up and running last night. It sure is a fps killer but definitely worth it.Comments on download.gmo01b - bad files birdbrazilmock.sms; birdcaw.sms; birdmorningdove.sms (found them in zsounds.zip available in file library). Files CP_Cantilever.sd; JP2RubSkpWh.s; .sd had partial path indicating sound folder. (Put the in shapes folder)gmo0d1 - bad files 7apartment.ace; WT_White.ace (used files from other folders).gmo0d2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 - bad file 248mac.ace (used file in springsnow folder)I also got a "failed to create sound object" which I'm still trying to chase down.The sceniced parts are fantastic worth every dialup hour.RegardsEric

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i got it workin but im missing a bridge where i started the explore route i was suprised that it was so short but i like it very much thx for your hard work and sharing this with us, lookin for the next version

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GM&O Group,Great Route. Thanks for developing it. Even wires on the telephone poles and Electric too. I was wondering what are the computer spec that you guys use. I have a Geforce 3 Video Card but I can see I must need something better. I am using a Sony Vaio 1.6 with 512 meg of memory and have 120 Gig Hard drive. Can't wait until the route is finished and some activities are available. Again Great Job.Dave Horton

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I have a pentium IV (1.8mh) with a gforce4 4800 w/128mb.I'm getting about 5-6fps in the built up areas with all sliders to the max without shadows.
RegardsEric

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EricThat is about what I am getting with the same settings. So I think I will just hang on with what I got for a while longer. Thanks for the information.Dave Horton

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I get about 3 fps in built up areas.I'm using a p3 800mhz with the gforce2 mx400 card 64megs of ram on board.

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What you have will run it Dave. I have almost the same as you. 7 to 10 FPS at the worst. The lesser machines and drivers will give less.
Thanks for your support..P.

Paul...
www.mstsgmo.com

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I sent ya the bucks, have you mailed the CD?

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What is the name/email that you sent the funds under? With the problems that we were having with the files on the download I have been double-checking the master zip files before I burned the CDs...They will be going out over the next 2-3 days now....JBD

Jim Duncan
Team GM&O

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I was hunting for your email, but couldn't find it. I've been hacking since I downloaded, so far I got the installed route down from 1.15gigs to 624 megs, and I'm not halfway thru yet. The only error message I got when I first installed was failed to create .sms object, probably the crossing gate bells. Haven't looked into that yet, since my first priority was trying to figure out why it's so big.I dunno how I can be more polite than this, your packaging sucks. There is no \Terrtex\Springsnow, and all those building ace files don't belong in the \Textures seasonal folders. Obviously you guys haven't been paying attention to my tutorials.http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=4559&forum=DCForumID6&archive=yeshttp://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=3982&forum=DCForumID6&archive=yeshttp://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=5862&forum=DCForumID6Shoot me an email with your snail mail address, and once I get the little beggar packed tighter I'll see if I can burn it onto a CD for ya. Oughtta be able to cut the download size to about 1/3rd or less.

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Joe Smith, bandit1921@cox.net using paypal.

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After getting route to work didn't seem to be a problem until I saw the missing bridge. I figured I would go to the route editor to check it out and all I got was an endless list of missing shapes that are not in the default routes. That explanes all the warnings.

http://www.theburds.org/bebob

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Where are you guys finding this missing bridge?JBD

Jim Duncan
Team GM&O

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I started on top of it in or near Ridgely using explore route. There are a lot of missing shape files,sd files and texture files from what I found that I did not find in the default routes OC60ftBridge.s is one. But according to route editor there are a lot more. This info is coming from the ref file in the route. Hope this helps.

http://www.theburds.org/bebob

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I got the same thing when I opened it in the RE using the ref file that came with it, but not in the sim. That indicates objects that were added to the ref file but not installed on the route. I dunno about the bridge, but the one at Ridgely does look like it's MIA.Since the bridge itself is missing, makes it kinda hard to tell what the file is supposed to be! I'm having a fit with the latest version of Route Riter, I'm gonna hunt up and install the version I packaged PO&N6 with. So far I got the zip down from 364 megs to 140 megs, gonna be a few more days before I get it down to minimum size.

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That bridge was never installed. It was being created by Trouble Pryor, but I have not heard from him in over a month.No bridge is placed there yet. BETA BEH-TAH ..means "not full release"..and then some. Test..test..not complete...it's all in the read-me and on the initial installation information in the lybrary Jim.It will come..all in due time. Patience... patience.BTW...when are you gonna become a team member? Jim D. can use the help!

Paul...
www.mstsgmo.com

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At the begining of this thread it did ask for comments,bugs/errors etc did it not.

http://www.theburds.org/bebob

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Hee-hee, I don't need to be a team member to give you a hand with packaging, all I gotta do is find a way to send stuff back and forth. I got my first ever CD burner last week, still haven't tried it out yet. This is gonna be a big download even with efficient packaging, you guys got a lot of custom objects in there. I currently have the zip down to 135 megs with a bulletproof installme.bat (installed size 489mb), but I can't take more than 9.5 megs in my email inbox, and even if you got a better ISP package than I do I doubt you could receive 135 megs in an email attachment. I could split it into 5 smaller zips and upload it as a replacement, or if you got another website I could upload it to that would work too. The only thing is, as you continue working on it and adding to it we'd still have to find a way to transfer it back and forth. Ottodad isn't around at the moment, maybe we could find someone else to host the beta files. Probably the simplest, shoot me an email jwarde@ameritech.net , and I'll send you back my snail-mail address, so you could burn what you do in the future onto a CD, and I could either package and upload from here (I got DSL) or send another CD back with the zips.One funkadelic thing I ran into, a lot of these TSM objects generate a requirement for a "blank.ace", and usually the blank.ace doesn't show up anywhere on the object (being in the cutout areas). So to save space, one of my usual tricks is to delete blank.ace and add a line to the batch file to copy \Global\Textures\imcarsp.ace to \Textures\Blank.ace. Apparently your telephone wires DO actually skin with blank.ace from some angles, so I gotta find another way to do that!

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Sniper:Was it you that sent us all the corrected shape files? If so, I need them again. I blew away the email that Paul forwarded to me.Please re-send to jdbandman@earthlink.net. Thanx...JBD

Jim Duncan
Team GM&O

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Right now im missing lots of shapes. Is there going to be a DL to fix this or can some1 e-mail them to me.Thanks.cnw8717

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You MUST have all SIX default routes that came with M$TS installed in order to have the shapes needed. To get these shapes into the route you must first run the install.bat file which is found in the GM&OP0 directory. This batch file will copy over the files you need from the default routes.If, after running the above, you are still missing shape files, PLEASE make a full list of those shapes and post them here.Thanks.
Jim Duncan
Team GM&O

Jim Duncan
Team GM&O

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Nope, wasn't me, I've been offline for a few months, had a major system crash back in January. Most likely culprit is Dick van den Hoven, he was the guy who fixed all the default KUJU .sd files for stuffitpack.
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d7f41c5199c3094.zipThat's stuffitpack2a, has all the corrected default sd files in it, and this;
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3ea2cc872a627135.zipis a zip with the sd files that Route Riter found errors in from GM&O. There's only 12 of them, the rest appear to be OK, altho it will probably take some digging to get all the SD files that have ESD alternative texture 2 or 257 with no snow or night textures. Teemu makes some great buildings, but he gets a little sloppy sometimes with the extended shape data. That's strictly an efficiency issue, it don't cause error messages.FYI, this gets rather confusing, if you have a tree that has only a single texture and you plant it as individual trees, the ESD should be 0 (no alternative textures), and you only need the ace texture in the main \Textures folder. Example, the poplar tree:SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0t1t______shape ( Poplars.s
ESD_Detail_Level ( 4 )
ESD_Alternative_Texture ( 0 )
ESD_Bounding_Box ( -19.632658 0 -17.03938275 19.389591 31.8006 15.758672 )
)The "ESD_Alternative_Texture ( 0 )" means that Poplars.ACE only needs to be in the main texture folder, and noplace else.Where it gets wierd is when you add that tree to the forest.dat file, and then plant poplars as forest regions. Any forest region is hard coded to ESD 252, so to avoid seasonal errors, Poplars.ACE has to be copied into all the subfolders except \Textures\Night. Since that poplar tree only came with one texture, if you really want to put the effort into having different appearances for different seasons, you could change Poplars.sd to ESD_Alternative_Texture ( 252 ), then add some lines to the batch file. Closest default tree to the poplar would be JP2Tree3.ace, so:call copy ..\Japan2\Textures\Spring\JP2Tree3.ace .\Textures\Spring\Poplar.ace
call copy ..\Japan2\Textures\Autumn\JP2Tree3.ace .\Textures\Autumn\Poplar.ace
call copy ..\Japan2\Textures\Winter\JP2Tree3.ace .\Textures\Winter\Poplar.ace
call copy ..\Japan2\Textures\Snow\JP2Tree3.ace .\Textures\Snow\Poplar.ace
call copy ..\Japan2\Textures\WinterSnow\JP2Tree3.ace .\Textures\WinterSnow\Poplar.ace
call copy ..\Japan2\Textures\SpringSnow\JP2Tree3.ace .\Textures\SpringSnow\Poplar.ace
call copy ..\Japan2\Textures\AutumnSnow\JP2Tree3.ace .\Textures\AutumnSnow\Poplar.aceWith those lines added to the batch file, and Poplars.sd changed to ESD 252, the Poplars.ace would be seen in summer clear (or summer rain), and the JP2Tree3.ace would show up instead in all other seasons and/or in snow.
cnw8717, it's possible you may have to wait for the next version. I've been screwing around with computers since 1978 (I was a US Navy Avionics tech), and I was here with the first pioneers back in June of 2001 when MSTS first came out, and I was one of the guys who helped hammer out how we were gonna distribute add-on routes to begin with. I was able to install the GM&O route only because I know what goes where, I can't imagine anyone who isn't computer savvy being able to get it to run as is. Remember, they said it was BETA, and the word BETA means "as is, no guarantees, abandon hope all ye who enter here".That said, the problem you're probably looking at is the way the paths were stored or not stored in the zip files. Try making a temp folder, unzip all the zips into that. Then, starting from that temp folder, take all the loose files named whatever.s and whatever.sd, and move them into the \GM&OP0\Shapes\ folder. After that you should be able to copy or move the GM&OP0 folder into \Train Simulator\Routes, then run the installme.bat. Worth the effort if you can get it running, the scenery is absolutely stunning.

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Hi Jim!I'm not sure if anyone else has this problem,but the 3-way crossing signals have no "base" to them(see pic).I get 1-17 FPS on my machine...all that detail is gonna cost ya...but I like it!Exceelent job ya'all!

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Yeah, I'm getting that too. Looks like those crossbucks were designed to hang from an overhead gantry or something, but right now they're just suspended in midair. I didn't mention it cuz I thought it was me:From certain angles on the exterior views I'm getting buildings, objects, bushes, and upside-down trees overtaking me and flying out ahead of me in the sky. I suspect that's probably this new ATI Radeon 9700 PRO, gonna have to hunt up a new driver for it. I shoulda stuck with Nvidia.Jim, James, Paul, we're trying to sort out some questions with the latest Route Riter;http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/9163.htmlMike wants to know if one of you guys did something to some of the default files that changed the internal CRC checksum without changing the date. I noticed there are a few files;
JP1ShinjukuSt.S.bak
That's in Japan1\Shapes, but this;JP1ShinjukuSt400.maxDon't appear in any of the default routes. Some kind of TSM/3Dcanvas file?BTW, you guys are gonna have to start yet another thread on this, we're cluttering this one up with pictures!

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Nice pics guys. Nice looking route. GM&O Team: Stay with it, you'll get the hitches worked out.Paul: What did you use for your autumn textures? Really nice looking.In all: Wonderful looking.Andre

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I have it down to 113 MB so far, zipped of course...But I'm not finished yet, as I need to integrate the WEEDS routine, remove/batch some objects which RR overlooked, and eliminate/batch the duplicate Day/snow textures...The numerous tiles (counting, zipped, for 62.1 MB) are not compressible, right ? but why supply tiles for areas which your train can't reach anyway beyond broken rails ?Hope to get below 100 MB...It's just for the exercise, as the route, with this crazy orgy of objects, is surely very nice to view (at 1/2 FPS), but just not decently playable. A real pity for the hard work it must have been to make.Once again, the "better" was the enemy of the good...By the way, all the cornfields were messed up, correcting with the original files...
no need to bother for poplars, tamaracs, willows, as they are not in forests and all identical, just set ESD Alternative to ( 0 ).And many other errors, should be frustrating for the third party authors to see their work rendered in such a poor way, sorry to say. Oh, RR still signals one only error: "A1t500r5d.q" _spelling correct_ cannot be found. Which entry calls on this, could not find it...
Love and Peace

OldieDaddy from Alsace

Visit also www.the-train.de !

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-03 AT 04:36 PM (EDT)

Yeah, I got the same thing, A1t500r5d.q sounds like an Xtracks object, but the route isn't Xtracks dependent (I don't currently have Xtracks installed), and what the hell is a .q extension?! Don't affect the running tho, whatever it is.
"I have it down to 113 MB so far, zipped of course...But I'm not finished yet, as I need to integrate the WEEDS routine, remove/batch some objects which RR overlooked, and eliminate/batch the duplicate Day/snow textures..." I DID do the weed routine (one thing you gotta watch for, Route Riter takes \Textures\Wintersnow\weeds6.ace out because it's not in the \World files, but it's necessary for the batch file to copy from if you place weed forest regions), and I only got down to 135mb. If you have a working copy at 113mb, maybe you oughtta be helping these guys with packaging!"The numerous tiles (counting, zipped, for 62.1 MB) are not compressible, right ? but why supply tiles for areas which your train can't reach anyway beyond broken rails ?"No, they're not compressible, and as for having a bunch of blank tiles, bear in mind that it's a work in progress, them blank tiles will eventually be full.I'm getting fairly decent framerates in explore mode, but again I got a screamer rig, P4 266, 1gig RAM, ATI 9700.Forgot about the cornfields, the ace files were missing from \Textures\Winter and \Textures\Wintersnow, I just downloaded Scott's latest corny attempt (a city slicker making cornfields?!) and copied the shape & texture folders from that into the route, worked fine.I dunno if you got to the terrain textures yet, what I did there was hunted thru some of the defaults (been doing this so long that I recognized them as defaults right away) and found that the normal terrain.ace is US2Forest.ace, and the snow terrtex is JP1Grass.ace. So I deleted them, and added the lines:call copy ..\USA2\Terrtex\US2Forest.ace .\Terrtex\terrain.ace
call copy ..\Japan1\Terrtex\Snow\JP1Grass.ace .\Terrtex\Snow\terrain.aceI've been trying to burn a CD (my first attempt), I went out and bought a pack of Jensen CD_RW discs, and I get "there's no disk in the drive" when I try to write the zip file to the CD-RW. What I got is a LITE-ON LTR-48246S DVD/CD, WinXP home, on a Gateway E-6000 (it was a gift, dunno anything about it). MS website isn't very helpful as usual, so if anyone knows what I'm doing wrong gimmee a shout.

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-03 AT 05:09 PM (EDT)

Hey Jim!We're quite a ways from the old days when everyone was trying to figure out why after creating a route there was nothing but white, ain't we? Rich Garber
edit spelling

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"edit spelling" indeed, you better edit it again. I have it on good authority your name is spelled R-A-G-M-O-P.http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=687&forum=DCForumID6&viewmode=allSo, having done that and Ohio Rails, when are you gonna come up with a GOOD route?!

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Very cool!! I didn't know any of those old posts survived the upgrades here. Yeah, ragmop was my panzer commander (SSI) nick when I used to drive tanks as a beta tester. Even more funny when you look at that old post, a buddy of mine pointed out to me, NO ONE ANSWERED!!!! Here's another old pic from back then, when that small route crashed two days before I finished it.oops... wrong picture... lemme try that again....So, having done that and Ohio Rails, when are you gonna come up with a GOOD route?! Don't know anything about making routes, wouldn't have one. Rich Garber

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-03 AT 08:36 PM (EDT)

Hi, Sniper !Now down to 92.8 MB, still in progress...
Could get well below 90.
Still weeds (have your archive), ENVFILES & a few SNOW textures to sort out.Looks like we are using very similar methods.
What I do, too, is DXT1 when possible, and when there's no image deterioration (careful with griddy textures)
Had already done Unterland2.4, Alpentransit1.03a, Poland3, a few more to come.Surprisingly, DXT1 is sometimes LOOKING bulkier, but once zipped it's ALWAYS smaller.
Reinstalled a few of 7-Teemu's original snow textures, which had been replaced by Day textures, some objects really weren't respected !I'm working with a tool which allows me to search within all decompressed .S at once, tracing the "image" entries to identify superfluous night/snow textures.
Also useful to compare CRC's for duplicates.For communication, I will upload to a non-public server corner, and let you/ the chaps know.Love and Peace

OldieDaddy from Alsace

Visit also www.the-train.de !

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Points to think about....I have not YET converted this route over to X-Tracks so I can't imagine why we would have a possibility of a call to an x-t object. What I'm going to do is to replace the offending piece of track if at all possible with a piece of dynamic track for the time being or try to find out what's wrong with the piece I used.The question was asked why we were supplying tiles where there are no rails and I believe the answer is fairly straight-forward.... In order for several people to be building parts of the same route it is necessary to have the same, identical set of tiles in the hands of each route builder.If we were only to release the route without all of the tiles then people will be constantly having to completely re-install each time we do a new release, or at least that's my gut-wrenching feeling about it.Again, the reminder caveat: it's a beta-build, NOT the final release. Once all rail and associated scenery is laid I expect that we will eliminate any tile that is not absolutely essential to the route.The operating thoughts here, I believe, are to be able to write activities which will allow AI trains to interact at crossings and for joint operation. Therefore, where there are junction points we are adding enough tiles to cover several miles of the adjoining railroads. I foresee this as being a getting-off point for other designers that want to build routes which will integrate with the GM&O for future multi-operator online sessions such as we are beginning to see with the guys doing MarPass and NEC the past few days.My gut tells me that M$TS-II will probably include some form of multi-route/multi-player operation which would allow us to literally run multiple railroads and coordinate movements/signalling/etc. I think that would be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY KEWL!!!!Where it will REALLY get interesting is when these routes meet at major terminals such as Kansas City, St. Louis, or Chicago and trains can literally be handed off to other routes via an online "interchange" where whole trains move from yard to yard/computer to computer. Wouldn't THAT be amazing?My ideas along this line are driven by what I've read (so far) about the National Yard Simulation thing in another area of Train-Sim.comHonestly? I think we're more than just one generation of M$TS away from true interchangability, but I would think that an online multi-op on the SAME route isn't too far out of the art of the possible in the very near future. It should be fairly easy to exchange files on the fly and to coordinate timing on the various end-player platforms. A file with the consist of a train you're meeting would be downloaded to your computer automatically well in advance of the anticipated meeting time and actually be running on BOTH (or more!) machine simultaneously.In reality, once you transmit the train consists to each participating player, small "control" packets (much like packet radio or ATCS text messages!) could be sent down the network to set signals, start/stop/affect trains movements, etc. Yes, there would be some residual lag-time but imagine having 50 people out there operating as levermen, dispatchers, train crews, yard crews, etc. etc. etc. all working together (just like the big boys!) to run the entire railroad!!! How cool is THAT??!?!?!?I foresee hardware or software that would come on the market to allow people to dispatch or operate interlockings, etc. as a result of all of this.Now, I'm VERY careful to add that I am an ACTIVE model railroader and I LOVE to guest operate and thoroughly enjoy getting together with a group of MR's of an afternoon or evening to operate so I hastily add that I would NEVER want an online game scenarios to replace or even take away from the actual comaraderie of a bunch of model railroaders getting together face-to-face and running a railroad!WOW! Where did all THAT come from???? Knowing what I've watched happen in the online world since the early days of Compuserve and the online CB mode and seeing the rapid development of real-time internet auto-racing (Rick Rideout of L&N Henderson Sub and RixProducts fame is a BIG online racing afficiando!), why couldn't it happen in Train-Simming, too????I believe that this past weekend has seen the dawning of just such a move in that direction and am excited about the possibilities especially with the help of to software gurus out there!All Aboard!!!!Markers,
JBD

Jim Duncan
Team GM&O

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Interesting O.D., I get 7 to 12 FPS in the worst areas. You may want to check your PC specks and drivers, sounds like you have a bottleneck somewhere.

Paul...
www.mstsgmo.com

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Don't know what Jim D. did there Jim... I can tell you though, that the bases were gates, and since they are signals, they crash the sim when the trackwork is changed, thus I removed them for that reason (or you all would linch me because your TDB's would all be corrupt.)They will be replaced when we can do it without crashing the sim.

Paul...
www.mstsgmo.com

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I didn't mess with ANYTHING in Springfield! Swear to God!!!! <SEG>Paul: What do you think about restoring the signals through Springfield and doing a route update for those that want to experiment with it?JBD

Jim Duncan
Team GM&O

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AHA!, OldieDaddy! You're using the old manual compression trick rather than letting RR do it for you, I didn't know it made a difference. Scott "Igor" Miller has a thing about uncompressed files, apparently compressing them destroys his remipit, so I didn't screw around with his corn. There's a kind of tradeoff there anyway, having the corn appear realistically in each different season is rather cool, but it makes for fatware with 8 different sets of ace files. The big trick is the mipmapping, if compressing the corn ace files destroys the remipit, how does that affect the cornfields when viewed from different angles on different video cards at different resolutions, not to mention FSAA and anisotropic filter settings? And the track textures are the same, that one looks like one of Scott's track textures, if that were compressed there's a really cruddy looking distant tinting effect on the ballast & ties. I cheated on Rusty Rails and 3Dtracks by reducing the image to 256x256 from the default 512x512, even uncompressed it's a smaller file, and the loss of quality from the stretching is more than compensated by the remipping. Tradeoffs.
Interesting observation about the DXT compression, my understanding was that anything with an alpha channel uses ZLIB compression, and checking the DXT box doesn't seem to change the size on most ace files with 8 bit alpha channels. It never occurred to me that it might COMPRESS smaller in a zip, I'll have to try that.As far as the envfiles, it's simple but confusing. Mike Simpson being an Aussie, he tends to write everything upside down, so when you go to "Write Bat" with Route Riter, a button pops up asking "Do you wish to include the Envfiles?", you should click NO. When you do it that way, it deletes all the files in \Envfiles and \Envfiles\Textures, and adds the line;call xcopy ..\..\template\envfiles\*.* .\Envfiles\ /s /yto the batch file.The only reason you would click "Yes" would be if you have a customized \Envfiles folder, which the GM&O does not, it uses the default one from \Template that was created when it was extracted.

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Hi Jim,When RR compresses files, it just uses the standard zip type of compression, not .dxt compression, so does not get the same amount of compression. However .dxt is a 'lossy' compression method like .jpg for pictures compared with .gif which gives better pictures but not as good compression.One other method I have used to compress routes which have winter textures is not to include any Terrtex\Snow textures, just include a batch file which copies over a single snow texture from one of the default routes e.g. US2TarGnd.ace and rename it for each of the summer Terrtex textures.Mike

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Hi RR Mike,Well, you are absolutely correct !
DXT1 is lossy, indeed.
Now, the decision is a different one for each specific texture : some "griddy" textures get nearly demolished, some others do not suffer of any VISIBLE quality loss. It's a matter of getting a decent compromise: no point in using 1024*1024 with nearly black grey alpha tones for a basic road lorry texture, when 256*256 trans DXT1 does it.
You can jump from maybe 1100 KB (zipped!)down to 43 KB (possibly as little as +/- 25 KB zipped), that is worth it quite often !DXT has another drawback: when you compress via TGATool2, you call on MakeAce, and this tool defaults to the Mips of Kuju. (Nothing to do with DXT1 itself).
So a remipped texture would loose its improved mips.Now, there is a trick: compress with DXT1, then remip (RemipIt), then save from RemipIt as Zlib. You will have gained substantial space, and still enjoy the remip feature, as far as you didn't degrade the picture quality VISIBLY !As I already told Sniper297, DXT1 LOOKS sometimes bulkier (when the color info is simple), but once ZIPPED, it is ALWAYS more compact !Another hint for "packers": be VERY careful when applying DXT1.
It can badly damage 8bit transparencies. When your texture looks like having only a basic "Trans-" black & white Alpha channel, check with your graphic editor that the black is RGB 0 0 0, and not a dark grey like RGB 0 0 16 or so. I confess having messed up a few textures recently..., you never stop learning !Love and Peace

OldieDaddy from Alsace

Visit also www.the-train.de !

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>DXT has another drawback: when you compress via TGATool2,
>you call on MakeAce, and this tool defaults to the Mips of
>Kuju. (Nothing to do with DXT1 itself).
>So a remipped texture would loose its improved mips. Does you ever try my suggest method using TView?
I don't know it's MipLevel are correct or not?
In my test it's quality are absolutely better than makeace using DirectX software compress. (I don't have try video card driver DXT compress because my Radeon 8500LE not work for makeace under Win98).>As I already told Sniper297, DXT1 LOOKS sometimes bulkier
>(when the color info is simple), but once ZIPPED, it is
>ALWAYS more compact ! Not always. For simple color texture, zlib compressed .ace file size can much less than DXT1 compressed. And also ziped size can less than DXT1 ziped. It depend on how it simple. And I think you can ignore these small resolution and simple color textures whether using DXT compress can save or not save package size.>Another hint for "packers": be VERY careful when applying
>DXT1.It can badly damage 8bit transparencies. When your texture
>looks like having only a basic "Trans-" black & white Alpha
>channel, check with your graphic editor that the black is
>RGB 0 0 0, and not a dark grey like RGB 0 0 16 or so. I
>confess having messed up a few textures recently..., you
>never stop learning ! DXT can not apply to 8 bit alpha. But I guess there are still some .ace files which using 8 bit alpha are in fact 1bit alpha. (e.g. alpha channel are only two value 0 or 255, or as you said 16/255). But it's need take more times to check and correct.
BTW. I can visit thetrain.de about a month ago. Thank your effort.Other things is if GM&O's tree object have good LOD setting. It may double the FPS (in low FPS part). Does anyone can modify that?

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How about a list of all of the files required for the missing shapes that ARE NOT part of the default routes. GO the CD today. Installed, missing a LOT of shapes and textures.

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I'm still working at the list....Somebody was SUPPOSED to be generating that and forwarding it to me but haven't received it yet. Obviously my system has the files but we still need a list to pass around....JBD

Jim Duncan
Team GM&O

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Installed from the Cd I got in the mail. Got it running no problem.. Seems to run fine with no errors in the Regular Mode.
I do get the error reports from Route Riter, but it looks like they are all signal files, and winter file textures. Except for the A1t500r5d.q of course.
However When I tried to create an activity running from Top to Bottem, I could get only about a third of the way before I ran into bad track sections. I found about 8 bad sections of track in the bottom 2\3 s of the route. IE. If you put a start point at the top, the green line only goes to a certain point before you get a stop point automatically. Is this a known problem? Has anybody else tried to build an End to End Activity?
OtherWise Love the Route... 1-5 fps on my system in the heavyduty areas. John

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All I did outside of Springfield was to lay track and place some objects. I haven't "named" any sidings, etc. That MAY be the problem and I'm not REALLY sure how to go about doing such things....Still learning....Hoping I can find the Abacus Route Building Book someplace (hard to buy if you don't use plastic!)....I would be MOST appreciative if somebody would volunteer to assist me with a transfer from PayPal in order to get hold of this asset...JBD

Jim Duncan
Team GM&O

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Just got GM&O up running after downloading it over several days due to really crappy D/L speeds here at Train-Sim. I'm talking 2400 baud modem speeds, like 5 kps. I have cable too, I can get 300k right now from ZD Net, so I know it's not me.Anyway, I got a TON of missing shape files, and when I run the INSTALLME.BAT file it only runs for about 45 seconds then stops. Yes I have all 6 default routes installed. NJC installs just fine, but GM&O has major problems. Out of the box, the GM&O only puts a little over 1000 files into the \SHAPES folder. The \SHAPES folder for my own route has over 5000 files in it, so I just copied that but I'm still over 300 shape files short. I click through all the notices for "missing .S file" and finally I'm in.No wonder we are getting crappy frame rates - in one of the Springfield tiles there is over 4500 objects!!! I don't care what your system is, with that much in a tile expect single digit framerates. Sitting in the yard at Springfield, I'll be at 5 fps looking in external view down the track in front of me, but when I rotate the view to an oblique angle it jumps back up to around 20 fps. I think it's cool that you can squeeze all that detail into a scene, but I'd rather have better framerates.Anyway, the Springfield area looks real cool, I'll probably steal some scenery ideas from this route for my own. Jeff L

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