ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?

Had no choice but order the Train Sim Modeller from them, having sworn a long time ago never to buy anything from them again.Paid for SPECIAL AIR MAIL Delivery, costing $ 25.00 extra. The parcel was franked $ 8.90, not a bad Profit ! Was Date Stamped: 1. April, got it today the 8. April, acceptable.Also said on the Customs Declaration that it contained a "Book" ?When my Postie gave the "Book" size carton to me I thought it was rather light to contain a "Book" ? Opened it to find that all it contained was 2 CDs and some leaflets. One was the TSM-CD and the other a "Giveaway" Roundhause. Did the same with that one I did when I purchased the original way back and you can guess what that was !So where is the MANUAL ? It's a PDF on the CD which took 274 pages 1 hour to print on my not slow EPSON Color Ink Jet 900, almost emptying the half-full Color Ink cartridge. The characters print oversized, the Top and Bottom margins are wasting between 1 and 2 inches and there is NO INDEX POINTING TO PARAGRAPH NOR PAGE NUMBERS, pointless anyway as there are none printed on any of the pages. Sensible Formatting could reduce the volume considerably, saving a few trees in the bargain !The printing of course leaves the bundle with the last page print uppermost. So what, re-sort them all to get them in the right order, starging with the first page ?Lucky for me a got a friend who has a Printing and Stationeries Business with a machine which can number the pages in "reverse order" and doing so leave the pages in the right order, Pages 1 - 274 !Apart from this DEFINITIVELY BEING THE LAST TIME ABACUS got money out of me, it is also the LAST TIME I shall buy Complicated Software NOT SUPPLYING A PRINTED MANUAL and suggest that you all do the same.This is the only way to get the message across to the Software Vendors !!!O t t o

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RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, OTTODAD, Apr-08-03, 02:54 PM, (1) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, bjrhatigan, Apr-08-03, 02:58 PM, (2) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, pwillard, Apr-08-03, 03:24 PM, (3) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, DTA, Apr-08-03, 03:33 PM, (4) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, taracer, Apr-08-03, 04:38 PM, (5) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, rgh69, Apr-08-03, 05:13 PM, (6) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, BaltoOhioRRFan, Apr-08-03, 05:58 PM, (8) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, OTTODAD, Apr-08-03, 06:47 PM, (10) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, OTTODAD, Apr-08-03, 06:39 PM, (9) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, pwillard, Apr-08-03, 06:58 PM, (11) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, Vulcan Foundry, Apr-08-03, 11:11 PM, (16) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, OTTODAD, Apr-09-03, 04:38 PM, (18) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, black5, Apr-08-03, 05:29 PM, (7) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, CSXALine, Apr-08-03, 07:12 PM, (12) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, CGW409, Apr-08-03, 07:13 PM, (13) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, John 136 6000 GO, Apr-08-03, 09:26 PM, (14) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, patm41, Apr-08-03, 09:45 PM, (15) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, rgh69, Apr-09-03, 08:49 AM, (17) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, OTTODAD, Apr-09-03, 04:52 PM, (19) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, beadyboy, Apr-09-03, 09:52 PM, (20) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, OTTODAD, Apr-10-03, 06:12 AM, (21) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, downside, Apr-10-03, 09:31 AM, (22) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, bjrhatigan, Apr-10-03, 12:55 PM, (23) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, pwillard, Apr-10-03, 03:05 PM, (25) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, JensChris, Apr-10-03, 02:08 PM, (24) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, CSXALine, Apr-12-03, 02:19 AM, (26) RE: ABACUS - Printed TSM Manual ?, MJ_MC, Apr-23-03, 07:04 PM, (27)

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So after 3 hours of my time valued at £ 150.00, Printing, Numerating-Sorting, Perforating, Scanning 274 pages for Subject Header Page Numbers and manually entering them next to the Contents Summary at the front, I now have a useable TRAIN SIMULATOR MODELER MANUAL.Never again !O t t o

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Ottodad-
I 'Learned' the hard way about Abacus with Combat Flight Simulator.
(Actually, it took me two times, he said with a red-face)
And I'm sure other people have their disappointment/horror stories too!Anyway, here's hoping there is something worthwhile on that CD.

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Had to? After spending that much you could have had 3D CANVAS.

Pete Willard

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Well Otto, you have got yourself to blame there. We have both been saying how much Abacus is rubbish, and you buy some?Shame on you!David

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Well, I'm happy with my online purchase of this manual. I don't think I could build my route without it. Buying online was good because I got it right away. I will admit that it may take a little more time to use it this way, but the results are worth it. I just print out pages as I need them, 3 or 4 pages at a time. All pages are numbered, so I just put them in my binder in the proper order.I don't print the table of contents. I click on the thumbnails to find the information I need then print that.My route is coming out great, thanks to this book and DEMEX.

Modeling ex-NYC Hudson Line, Albany-Rensselaer to NYP.

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3e9333434707a6b4.jpg

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Abacus..... yeah, I'm still patiently waiting for a cd promised me way back in 2002. The LTV Erie thingy, a bonus cd or bonus route, whatever. I wonder how they run that business, they must be....... very busy......Best regards,
Richard.ps. those dots are moments of silence.

Best regards,
Richard.

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Abacus.......great service for me donno bout to rest of ya i lost my bouns disk...wrote em an e-mail with all proof i bought the add-on and told em i sent in the registration form thing.....3-5 days later i got a envelope from Abacus with the LTV Erie disk in it. all i have to say the rest of thier add-ons dont look to interesting to me next thing i will buy from them is if they come out with a B&O add-on. CYA!

BaltoOhioRRFan

HELP OUT THE B&O Roundhouse Restoration Fund at www.borail.org
E-Mail Me if you would like a B&O & C&O & WM Steam Engine Repaints

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LTV-Erie, Dick ?I bought it last year, was one of ABACUS better MSTS offerings, probably the only one ! Surplus to my requirements now.Send me an E-Mail using the "Send E-Mail" Icon above, mine works, with an address to Airmail the CD to.O t t o

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Pete, GMAX 1.2 Downloads for FREE ! Needed TSM to learn the Basics relating to MSTS.O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-03 AT 06:59 PM (EDT)

RE: Pete, GMAX 1.2 Downloads for FREE ! Of course... if you have the patience to learn it with very little guidance. I am using it... and I need more patience, I guess.RE: Needed TSM to learn the Basics relating to MSTS. The TSM route is the hard and expensive way if you just want to learn how to create content for MSTS, IMHO. I bought, tried it for a week, learned nothing useful about MSTS... disliked it imensely... and finally bought 3D Canvas. Some may disagree, but to me 3D Canvas it is a better cad program for MSTS than either GMAX or TSM.Honest, I realize that my opinion on this is rather well known so sorry in advance if I offend anyone with my opinion.
Pete Willard

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I'm with Pete. 3D Canvas also in my opinion is a better all round product when taking all things into account.

Models currently building:
Westrail P Class (GE CM25-8)
Queensland Rail 1300 Class
Queensland Rail Diesel Tilt Train
Tasrail ZC Class
Tasrail Z/ZA/ZB Classes
Tasrail D/DQ Classes

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I would like to give 3D Canvas a try, but my problem is that nowhere can I find any clues or info about how to create my own Tracks ! It's not that I did not ask before, I forget how many times, here and in the Routes Forum. No replies !Having had 24 hours to browse through the TSM, nothing ! So yes, that was a waste of money ! O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-03 AT 05:58 PM (EDT)

Software vendors just look for maximum profit....(starting with Microsoft)...the rest is just customers being a nuisance.
WE have the POWER...don't buy their products..ever..even if you think you want it.
As long as we keep putting money their way for bad products or service we will only get bad products or service. They either improve or go bust.
Guys..the choice is yours...
Georges from London.

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I am Officially a GMAX Convert, This is a Hobby Patience is needed - Besides i never could get 3DCanvas - Jason Webb
Http://www.scl-aline.com

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Otto
Do you have 1.0 or 1.1?(if you have a library with centercab switchers and doodlebugs you have 1.1) if not get over to Abacus's site and DL the upgraded version(you might as well have the latest version with the known probs corrected)
Though I'm a bit PO'd at Abacus not upgrading the documentation to 1.1 and most of those library locos are loaded with UID errors.
Since nothing new has been posted at TS World I'm currently assuming that Abacus is bailing on Trainsim altogetherGary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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Is there another place to get Rich Garber's Activity Guide and/or Mike Vone's Route Building book?I've been waiting for about 4 weeks now to hear from Abacas after placing an order for the Activty book so I don't really want to try them again, especially after seeing the problems you others are havingCheersJohn

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All you guys bitch and complain about products from Abacus .. remember Abacus dont make all the products , they are just a vender
for about almost half of what they sell.. some one else created the software all they do is package and market it... Complaining about how buggy TSM is , well Abacus didnt make the software , Louis Sinclare did...So bitch to him !!

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It's not the products we're bitchin' about, it's abacus after sales service we're bitchin' about.
@OTTO, to be honest I just bought that set for the 3D-trains F9. I'm very pleased with that one! Thanks for the offer though.Best regards,
Richard.

Best regards,
Richard.

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Pat, if you go into a store and buy something and you are not happy about what you bought, who do you "bitch about" to, the store or the manufacturer who made the goods ? It's up to the Vendor who sold you the goods to deal with your complaints. Most stores would not sell goods which have not passed their buyers quality control, having been one myself many years ago in Supermarkets, being considered by them fit to be sold in their stores !Why do you and a lot of other people think that buying SOFTWARE is subject to different rules and Vendors reputations do not matter, M$ excepted ?O t t o

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I followed the 3 tutorials that came packaged with TSM and built a completely new transport system for msts, a levitating train with guideway, and found it very easy to learn and use. An excellent starting tool for 3d modellers.PDF files are readable with Adobe Acrobat. This software has nothing to do with Abacus. If you can't print it, it's your problem, not theirs. I've had no problem printing the route editor manual also in pdf format and was well aware of the ink 190 pages might have consumed. I printed mine in full colour.My package also had 'book' on the invoice slip... so what. I knew exactly what was inside. I've never regretted a purchase from Abacus and will continue to do so when something interests me.

Craig Scott
cscott02@optushome.com.au

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-03 AT 06:20 AM (EDT)

Craig,If you read my message #2 you will have noticed that I color-printed, numerated and indexed all the TSM 274 pages myself, neatly placed into a Ring Binder for quick reference, the same as I did with Mike Vone and Rich Garber's Guides. There again, Mike Vone's Guide only shows "Paragraphs" in it's Contents Summary, not quoting the page numbers where they can be found, had to insert them manually, whereas Rich Garber's does tell you the appropriate page numbers ! What good is an "INDEX" without telling you where to find what ?ABACUS do not mention that buying the "Special Delivery" version does not include a printed Manual. If I had known, I could have saved myself $ 25.00 by Downloading it instead, the same as I did with the other Guides ! Anyway, I am going to be absent from the Forum for some time now, the end of my Clients Accounting Financial Years giving the "Accountant" part of me plenty to do for a couple of months and loads of new programming jobs having dropped into my lap as well ! No more point doing any more MSTS developements of my own until after the release of the next version and I know what has changed ! Got a Graphics Specialist lined up to give me a hand should I have time to do some more MSTS stuff ! But my creations will NOT be FREEWARE ! Quality comes at a price ! Anybody wants to ask me a question, use the E-Mail Icon in any of my posts.Adios Amigos !O t t oEdit-P.S.If anybody has a lead about where to find information about designing and making MSTS Tracks in the existing format, please E-Mail me as I am not likely to read messages in any Forum for a while !

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-03 AT 09:32 AM (EDT)

>But my creations will NOT be FREEWARE ! Quality comes at a price !So you are saying the routes, rolling stock and utilities by the likes of Sniper, Rich Garber, NALW, Svante, Kip Crawford, Derek Morton, Mike Simpson, Tony Formoso, Carlos Gomez, Etienne Cardot and a host of others are not quality?Looks like you have just managed to upset all the freeware modellers, developers and authors in one crass sentence.

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Ottodad -
Sorry to see you go -
Bye for now.
BJ

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But my creations will NOT be FREEWARE ! Quality comes at a price !Knowing Ottodad as we do in this forum... this is not a surprise. Lots of luck carving out a niche in an already small niche market...Pete

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LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-03 AT 02:09 PM (EDT)

Who needs Manuals ?
I only did the first tutorial in TSM...I learned everything myself...
And I think I can say I mastered it at least a little bit...Jens-ChrisEDIT : Spelling corrections

16 years old, from Germany, MSTS 3D Add-on maker and repainter ---- Jens-Chris ----

-- "Power for You" --

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Ohhhh here we go - well if he waits until Abacus produces another TSM well then he might have to wait a bit, Now for one i would never buy something from someone who thinks he is punishing us by charging for something - tsk tsk on that oneJason Webb
Http://www.scl-aline.com

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Don't get me started on ABACUS! I could never get over how bad LTV ERIE MINING CORP was. Such a promising idea ruined by poor development.Kind Regards,
Jay

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