Do we need a new site identical to this one?

With all due respect to the new forum's founder(s) and call me dense if you will, but would someone please explain to me why we need a new MSTS site which for all intents and purposes looks like this one? (Except of the all upper case, which looks bad and discouraged in Print Style 001.)Why would anyone want to double the time spent on trying to find pertinent information on an piece of software poorly documented from the gitgo? If it were dedicated to a specific topic like "MSTS Signal Usage and Development" I could see a purpose. The few different topics couldn't be handled here? If it's the founder's desire to find new participants, what will make the new site any easier to find than this one? The only purpose as I see it now is place for someone to go if they get miffed here. That's simply childish.Why does the founder have only several posts? If they've participated here what was their stage name here so we can vet this person's credentials to run a new site? How do I know this new site isn't the product of a management vendetta?After reading through the announcement thread, I found the lack of words complimenting the folks who have given of their time to run this site very disappointing.None the less, good luck. Thanks, but no thanks, I have a home.Hank Sundermeyer

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RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, pwillard, Jan-03-03, 10:06 AM, (1) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, LAHDPOP, Jan-03-03, 10:41 AM, (2) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, calr, Jan-03-03, 10:44 AM, (3) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, Bing, Jan-03-03, 10:55 AM, (5) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, YoungLIRR, Jan-03-03, 10:53 AM, (4) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, rdamurphy, Jan-03-03, 10:58 AM, (6) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, cn_bayview, Jan-03-03, 05:20 PM, (20) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, bobs, Jan-03-03, 01:17 PM, (7) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, richb, Jan-03-03, 01:27 PM, (8) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, MSG Redleg, Jan-03-03, 02:19 PM, (12) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, pipey, Jan-03-03, 02:10 PM, (9) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, calr, Jan-03-03, 02:19 PM, (11) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, pipey, Jan-03-03, 03:07 PM, (15) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, fwwr2005, Jan-03-03, 02:15 PM, (10) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, dcmorris, Jan-03-03, 02:28 PM, (13) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, Rail4Pete, Jan-03-03, 03:04 PM, (14) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, Steamman, Jan-03-03, 04:04 PM, (17) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, OTTODAD, Jan-03-03, 03:34 PM, (16) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, pstraten, Jan-03-03, 04:05 PM, (18) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, JohnCS, Jan-03-03, 04:23 PM, (19) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, jm1941, Jan-03-03, 05:58 PM, (21) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, Magick_maker, Jan-03-03, 06:50 PM, (22) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, calr, Jan-03-03, 07:12 PM, (23) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, West_Coast_Railroader, Jan-03-03, 08:15 PM, (24) RE: Do we need a new site identical to this one??, kyleh24, Jan-03-03, 10:00 PM, (25)

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Yes, the big question is:Why?If it differenciated itself in some way... the way most other MSTS sites have, it might generate some interest... By duplicating something that already exists (and only adding a few more forums) there is very little reason for people to migrate in large numbers.IMHO: It needs to be different to add value.Pete Willard

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Unless we all run over there and join, it won't be identical. And I'm with you; I do NOT want to spend even more time searching through forums for info I need. This one, and a couple others, suit me fine. No offense meant to the efforts of the creator, but I'm stretched thin enough as it is. I'll continue to call this home.
Pop

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DITTO!Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
cal.rasmussen@verizon.netColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track completed. Taking a TSM break!)

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I don't get it either and good to see I am not the only person who feels that way. We can always use good add-ons. The Spittler site is an example and there are others. A duplicate of the Train-Sim forum, which has served us so well, is difficult to understand - unless there are ads and other things which come with the new site. Bing

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-03 AT 10:54 AM (EST)

I very much so agree with you. however one up-side to this new site that I see is another file library. Possibly one that I can get into with less than 40 tries.....The library here is always busy, maybe this can help even it out.

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I'm with you guys, I will stay here, and continue to attempt to answer questions of which I have knowledge, and ask questions that I don't know and spar with Fozzie over the best 3d proggy to use Rob

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The problem is what if no one uploads there? you can get in quicker BUT not have the same amount of stuff as you'll find here.
I'll call this place home no matter what.

Rob.
Mile 21.0 CN Oakville Sub.

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Hank, I've with you. As far as I'm concerned, this is the "official" site and that's that. It has been a quality place for almost 2 years now, we've gotten additional forums as the need has become apparent, and Nels is doing a great job running it.The new one just doesn't look very professional, more like something someone wants to play with. Typos and all caps just don't do it for me.Bob Siederer
Co-author of Marias Pass 3.1

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Agree, agree, agree! However one thing that would be nice is a mirror site for train-sim.com files, maybe in Europe.Rich

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This site is by far the "One-Stop" source for good information on the systems and excellent download materials. I see now reason to search all over the net for information.I would hate to see us break off into "special interest groups" such as "Europe" or "Narrow-gage" etc. That would only dilute the content and scatter the knowledge we've gathered over several locations. The program problems one group has may affect others. Let's support Nel's efforts here and add more forum subjects rather than another site.Is it time we looked into creating an organization to look at standards, improvements, etc such as the National Model Railroad Association ?? ( www.NMRA.org ) That has been the guiding factor in the quality of modeling systems and products for use modelers.

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The real question is, where was MSTS when all the problems of the Sim started showing up? Answer- nowhere; now they start up a forum with all the knowledge gleaned from this one no doubt! and if it's a success- they will take all the kudos: I feel sorry for all the people that have made this exellent forum a success. My advice to all who like and admire T/sim, stay and be loyal to the one that has served us very, very, well so far!

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I think you got the wrong idea. The new site is doesn't have anything to do with Microshaft. It is run by a private individual (pdave1).Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
cal.rasmussen@verizon.netColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track completed. Taking a TSM break!)

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Cal: Thanks for putting me right; my mistake why didnt I see that? to much TS I guess- must be really dead on the law!

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I must also agree with you msts-online looks alot like train-sim.com I belive this guy is just trying to copy nels anderson. I mean look at it it is almost identical!

stephen

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Maybe we do and maybe we don't. There is an old adage that applies here-"the proof of the pudding is in the eating". Let's see how it shakes out. I for one, am going to give it a try. Having said that, I can not see myself abandoning this site as it has too much history, too much great information and too many great contributors to walk away from.
D. C. Morris

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If we consider the fact that some peoples can't afford to pay $30 US per year to access the file library anytime, why not ? It's not a competition there is no $ to win. We all appreciate to have alot of choice when we go to the grocery or when we want to buy a car or whatever we want..so why complaining about that? If some wanna go they can go, if they wanna stay they can stay, and if someone want both, there they are. That's all!Pierre Veilleux

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>If we consider the fact that some peoples can't afford to
>pay $30 US per year to access the file library anytime, why
>not ? It's not a competition there is no $ to win. We all
>appreciate to have alot of choice when we go to the grocery
>or when we want to buy a car or whatever we want..so why
>complaining about that? If some wanna go they can go, if
>they wanna stay they can stay, and if someone want both,
>there they are. That's all!
>
>Pierre Veilleux I have to agree with this totally. I dont know what all the
fuss is about. It seems some people just dont want change.
Theres at least 3 or 4 Flight Sim web sites, all offering
downloads and forums, and no flight simmer seems to have
a problem with it. As a matter of fact each seems to be doing
well in its own right.
As far as going to another, so called duplicate, site. I have no
problem with that. After all, whats it take ? A click on a link
that I've bookmarked in my browser. If the DLs are faster and
access is easier, so much the better.But each to his own I guess...Jim

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Since joining this Forum last year I have also looked at others, mainly European, only to find that ours has the MOST to offer to ALL Railway Enthusiasts of ALL ages.A bit of competition never does any harm. It helps to make us more aware of what we already have, THE BEST MSTS FORUM ON THE PLANET !!!, read by more than just the 8500+ members !

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Hmmm. Competition is prety much supposed to be the "American Way," isn't it? Unless we found out that they are being subsidized by our tax dolars, I don't think anyone has any call to carp about whether there should be another trainsim site or not. The point is, there is one, and it will either prosper or perish on its own merits.PaulS

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It two sites certainly don't seem to be the same to me, as one appears to prohibit discussion of certain topics.A thread made 'over there' questioning the need for that forum was deleted shortly after posting.

JohnCS
dem_ex@hotmail.com
visit the DEMEX website:
http://www.dem-ex.com

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Well I've been coming here since well BEFORE MSTS hit the shelves. One of Train Sim Com's (TSC) very first's participants. I have watched and participated here at TSC as it grew to the great site it is now. Okay a few hiccups along the way, but life is full of hiccups.I often wonder by the enormous participation here now, how some have any time to sleep, or even seriously play with MSTS, let alone frequent other sites. Okay, yes one may find tit bits on other Forums. In those early days I use to look at another MSTS Forum site, but soon gave that away as I noted here at TSC hundreds of times, those tit bits soon appear in the TSC Forums by someone on this site who did the leg work. So buggered if I need to look elsewhere, just wait patiently and it usually turns up here, if not first. So why WASTE my little precious time I have. TSC will do me just fine.I've been retired from the Railways (yes a life long railwayman) and my time now is my own in these now twilight years (better saying twilight than saying old) and by the time I come here, read and participate the local news, have a laugh, and at times nearly cry, get ruffled occasionally, shake my head in utter amazement, and I also learn something new everyday here. Then do my chores and have play with MSTS, the days nearly done. WHY go anywhere else, unless (I even dread the though) TSC goes bust.Nel's you have a great site here and us old die hard TSC's, will stick with Train Sim.com Forums thank you very much. I'm also happy the way the Forum is at present. PS. Of course, granted everyone to their own Forum(s), mine happens to be only the TSC Forum.

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I guess, the thing I might suggest would not to look and say "Oo it's a mirror of MSTS" but rather let the place grow. It could easily die like some do. But, if I'm not mistaken, everything that uses DCforum tends to look similar. I'm joining there, if nothing else for research and to mess around. I'm also a member of uktrainsim.com (gosh) *for those that don't understand that, there was a big flap a few months back where uktrainsimmers got angry at train-sim posters, and made a real mess.* (I am SOOOOO over simplifying.

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I have seen the other side and I'll think I'll stay here. I would like to see a couple of additional forums for TSM and GMAX on this site.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
cal.rasmussen@verizon.netColumbia Gorge Route (Phase 1 track completed. Taking a TSM break!)

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We must recognize that there will be multiple "forums" on certain things.look at auto racing the are a number of forums some linked to a particular sanctioning body,magazine or just an independent site.Train simming is no different,some may be just a forum site like MSTS-online.Here at Train-Sim.com its a complete site with product news from developers,forums and the ever popular file library where we can find oodles of add-ons for our simulators.As others have said news sites pop up then die on the vine and some may grow if given the time, no one person or group can hold the rights to an idea, and if the are opportunities to spread out the resources and make them available in more locations then thats good for the train-simming community.Personally this is my train sim home I'm also a member at MLT's site since I do purchase their products, and besides the forums are mostly aimed at MLT's products as far as the forums go.
Nothing wrong with that because it helps in customer feedback and users help other users out with the specific product.Here its Whatever it is that has to do with MSTS yuo're sure to get some sort of help and, besides you can talk about railroading and railfanning here too.Keep up the good work Nels.

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Maybe it's someone who wants to be their own Moderator

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