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I was thinking about buying The Cajon Pass Route and i was wondering is it a good route

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RE: Cajon Pass, kevarc, Oct-23-02, 09:58 PM, (1) RE: Cajon Pass, SVTS, Oct-23-02, 09:58 PM, (2) RE: Cajon Pass, Kip, Oct-23-02, 10:02 PM, (3) RE: Cajon Pass, SVTS, Oct-23-02, 10:08 PM, (4) RE: Cajon Pass, akajim, Oct-25-02, 11:25 AM, (12) RE: Cajon Pass, SVTS, Oct-25-02, 12:00 PM, (13) RE: Cajon Pass, MasterChief, Oct-24-02, 04:38 PM, (5) RE: Cajon Pass, SVTS, Oct-24-02, 04:51 PM, (6) RE: Cajon Pass, bnsf4794, Oct-24-02, 05:27 PM, (7) RE: Cajon Pass, kevarc, Oct-24-02, 05:30 PM, (8) RE: Cajon Pass, SD40T_2, Oct-24-02, 06:34 PM, (9) RE: Cajon Pass, bnsf4794, Oct-25-02, 01:25 AM, (10) RE: Cajon Pass, SD40T_2, Oct-25-02, 05:08 AM, (11) RE: Cajon Pass, woodman, Oct-25-02, 02:14 PM, (14) RE: Cajon Pass, bnsf4794, Oct-25-02, 05:18 PM, (15) RE: Cajon Pass, brucek, Oct-25-02, 05:54 PM, (16) RE: Cajon Pass, DTA, Oct-25-02, 06:05 PM, (17) RE: Cajon Pass, brucek, Oct-25-02, 06:22 PM, (18) RE: Cajon Pass, SVTS, Oct-25-02, 06:28 PM, (19) RE: Cajon Pass, DTA, Oct-25-02, 07:15 PM, (20) RE: Cajon Pass, brucek, Oct-26-02, 01:16 AM, (23) RE: Cajon Pass, kevarc, Oct-25-02, 10:26 PM, (21) RE: Cajon Pass, SD40T_2, Oct-25-02, 11:35 PM, (22) RE: Cajon Pass, gp3804, Oct-26-02, 01:52 AM, (24) RE: Cajon Pass, DTA, Oct-26-02, 08:55 AM, (25) RE: Cajon Pass, kevarc, Oct-26-02, 09:04 AM, (26) RE: Cajon Pass, DTA, Oct-26-02, 02:04 PM, (28) RE: Cajon Pass, kevarc, Oct-26-02, 11:39 PM, (32) RE: Cajon Pass, DTA, Oct-27-02, 03:29 PM, (35) RE: Cajon Pass, kevarc, Oct-28-02, 10:10 AM, (43) RE: Cajon Pass, DTA, Oct-28-02, 03:47 PM, (45) RE: Cajon Pass, kevarc, Oct-28-02, 04:10 PM, (46) RE: Cajon Pass, DTA, Oct-28-02, 05:03 PM, (47) RE: Cajon Pass, kevarc, Oct-28-02, 05:07 PM, (48) RE: Cajon Pass, DTA, Oct-28-02, 05:22 PM, (49) RE: Cajon Pass, kevarc, Oct-28-02, 04:28 PM, (50) RE: Cajon Pass, DTA, Oct-28-02, 06:18 PM, (51) RE: Cajon Pass, kevarc, Oct-28-02, 11:18 PM, (52) RE: Cajon Pass, bob hahn, Oct-26-02, 01:58 PM, (27) RE: Cajon Pass, DTA, Oct-26-02, 02:33 PM, (29) RE: Cajon Pass, gp3804, Oct-26-02, 09:40 PM, (31) RE: Cajon Pass, dgauci, Oct-26-02, 08:14 PM, (30) RE: Cajon Pass, bnsf4794, Oct-27-02, 02:39 AM, (33) RE: Cajon Pass, dgauci, Oct-27-02, 10:40 AM, (34) RE: Cajon Pass, SD40T_2, Oct-27-02, 07:07 PM, (36) RE: Cajon Pass, dgauci, Oct-27-02, 07:33 PM, (37) RE: Cajon Pass, SD40T_2, Oct-27-02, 07:46 PM, (38) RE: Cajon Pass, SVTS, Oct-27-02, 08:45 PM, (39) RE: Cajon Pass, SD40T_2, Oct-28-02, 03:43 AM, (40) RE: Cajon Pass, ASR_Q301, Oct-28-02, 07:59 AM, (41) RE: Cajon Pass, SVTS, Oct-28-02, 09:24 AM, (42) RE: Cajon Pass, jvizoso, Oct-28-02, 10:54 AM, (44) RE: Cajon Pass, 3DRailHound, Oct-29-02, 04:06 AM, (55) RE: Cajon Pass, kevarc, Oct-29-02, 09:15 AM, (56) RE: Cajon Pass, rabid_david, Oct-29-02, 11:43 AM, (57) RE: Cajon Pass, SVTS, Oct-29-02, 11:57 AM, (58) RE: Cajon Pass, dgauci, Nov-01-02, 09:24 AM, (59) RE: Cajon Pass, SVTS, Nov-01-02, 09:36 AM, (60) RE: Cajon Pass, Hack, Oct-29-02, 01:54 AM, (53) RE: Cajon Pass, SD40T_2, Oct-29-02, 02:02 AM, (54) RE: Cajon Pass, woodman, Nov-01-02, 09:36 AM, (61)

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YesThe activities need a little work in the AE and they will work fine.Kevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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It is a outstanding route. Early buyers had and maybe still do, have problems with some of the activites, but the newer CD's will have the updates already. Aside from a few problems with a few activites, it is well worth the $38.Over 240 miles of smooth tracks, accurate grades, and realistic terrain and scenery. New rolling stock and locomotives from the F units to the SD 70 and in bewteen, as well as lots of great activites.Check out their website at www.3dtrainstuff.com for more info and screenshots. They also have a forum where you can talk to team members.You really can't go wrong with this route. I just got done alpha testing a follow up to Tehachapi, and this is sure to be a hit when it is released early next year. Those who have the original version won't believe the difference in TP 2.ChrisIt's not a game, it's a way of life.

http://groups.msn.com/tehachapi

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-23-02 AT 10:03 PM (EDT)

Tootin' my horn here...Yes. Cajon Pass is a good route. Probably one of the best. You also get quite a bit of new stock. In the near future it's "sister" route, Tehachapi (full version) will be released. When, I'm not sure, but soon.Kip
3DTS Route Developer
3dtrainstuff.com
The Priest River Railroad "...it's so fictional, it's almost real"
PRRR Wesite Coming very soon: PRRR's Hoodoo Pass Route Beta 1.5

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Kip, When I met with Brad at the loop, he indicated around February. From what I have seen thus far, the aplha version is so much better that the developers edition. ChrisIt's not a game, it's a way of life.

http://groups.msn.com/tehachapi

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Yes. Cajon Pass is a good route. Probably one of the best. You also get quite a bit of new stock. In the near future it's "sister" route, Tehachapi (full version) will be released. When, I'm not sure, but soon.Kip
3DTS Route Developer
3dtrainstuff.comKip, When I met with Brad at the loop, he indicated around February. From what I have seen thus far, the aplha version is so much better that the developers edition.
ChrisI'm sure there are others who, like me; purchased the developers edition of Tehachapi.I have been pleased with the "Bare bones" running on this route, and I'm pleased to see that there is going to be a full version available soon. But wouldn't it be nice to also put out an upgrade patch for those of us with the original; even if for a nominal fee!Oh yes, and as for the original reason for this thread; I too would recommend "Cajon Pass". Two thumbs up !!! Ron K of Rockford

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You can't do a upgrade patch for TP 2, take my word for it. I won't go into any details, because I am limited as to what I can say under the agreement I have with 3DTS, but it is a completly different route, and once you see it, you won't believe it.And don't hold me to the February release date, I don't work for them, it could be earlier, it could be later. Keep checking thier site for any more info on the route.ChrisIt's not a game, it's a way of life.

http://groups.msn.com/tehachapi

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Not everyone is totally enamoured with it...

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You can't please everyone. Did you expect perfection with close to 30 or 40 activites? I assume you are referring to the activity problems. They are working on trying to make things better, and if thats good enough, than wait for the new activity pack to be released, with close to 30 new activites. You have to look at the scope of the project. People say the MLT don't have these problems, but look at their routes...point a to point b more or less.Cajon was intened to be Barstow to San Bernardino, that it. Halfway thru, they decided to add the UP line from WC to Mojave, and BNSF's sub to Mojave. Other than the activites, I can't see why anyone would dislike this route.Any no I don't work for 3DTS, but I do happen to be friends with Brad up there, and I know from speaking to him that him and his team are aware of the activity flaws and are working to fix the last few that the previous updates did not address.Cheers,ChrisIt's not a game, it's a way of life.

http://groups.msn.com/tehachapi

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Not to nit-pick, but The Cajon Pass Route had always been intended to be both BNSF and UP lines. It wasn't until further into development that it was decided to add the Barstow-Mojave run.John Greenstone
Cajon Pass Route Designer
3DTrainstuff

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I got both Sandpatch and Cajon. After getting into the guts of each route, I have found Cajon to be superior to Sandpatch. Yes there have been problems with both, but 3D has responded and patched most of the problems. And those that they didn't patch are easily fixed in the Path editor. The more I tried to create activities in Sandpatch the more disappointed I became with it. MLT has done little to fix the route, one patch that really didn't do a thing. The signalling is screwed up, you choose the wrong path at either end of the route you get the red that never ends, even though there is nothing there. The sidings are not isolated with signals so that if a train starts at the end of a branch it throws a red on the mainline. If you drop your helper at SA tower you get game over, forgot to blow your horn even though there is not a bridge or crossing near where you are and I could find nothing the RE to give a reason for it. Things like this that need to be cleaned up and have not been addressed.Kevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-24-02 AT 06:35 PM (EDT)

dude cajon rocks, other than the crossing at Blue Cut being off by a about a few hundred feet, it's practically perfect, I've spent most of my railfanning years there, and it surpassed my expectations as to it's accuracey. Anyways it's Worth the money, i would suggest buying it. Now if they only made the Colton to Indo route, as perhaps an update for the route, that would be the icing on the cake.

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Boy, you guys don't miss anything... Yep, the bluecut crossing is off a bit, I had to do that for logistical reasons though. If only I had more terrain-polys to play with... a guy can dream right?? John Greenstone
3DTS Route Designer

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hey i don't have a problem with it, you did do a great job. what's next on the SO CAL route list? maybe the San Diego to LA route? i'd pay for that.

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There is someone working on the line Mojave, Palmdale, Saugus, Los Angeles. I don't know if it's freeware. This will allow Metrolink ops to Lancaster and freight drags up and down Afton Canyon. I understand that his plan is to go all the way to LAUPT. I would hope that he models Taylor Yard as it was before being torn out.After a couple of false starts to get good DEM merges, I'm slowly doing the Saugus, Fillmore, Montalvo; Santa Paula Branch. This was the original Coast mainline until about 1906. I'm setting it in the late 50's when it was still an active shipper of citrus and sent out long reefer blocks from either end, many with mainline power routed directly to their destinations. It also served as an emergency mainline in case of problems at Santa Susanna. This could mean the Daylight, Lark, reefers and even stock cars all moving over a train orders branch in a very rural area. Don't look for it very soon since I'm working glacially, as time allows, and dealing with the learning curve.

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SD40T_2, no problem, I wasn't upset. I chuckled when I read your post though, I figured nobody in the world would have noticed that grade crossing. Yep, SD to LA would be cool, and we were actually considering it for quite awhile. But we found out that somebody else already took our idea and ran with it. But there's plenty of other routes to be made, and we've got some neat things coming up in the near future!John G
3DTS Sr. Route Developer
www.3dtrainstuff.com

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-25-02 AT 06:16 PM (EDT)

In a word, "yes".
It is a magnificent route - the most comprehensive NORTH AMERICAN ROUTE we've yet seen from a commercial third-party developer.You will not regret spending one cent of the piddling amount being asked for it.For a (small) example of the accuracy of 3DTrainStuff's surveying, click on
Cajon, 1970Bruce.

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A lot of this is subjective nonsense. "The most comprehensive we've seen from a commercial 3rd party developer" ?It has already been established that some of the activities do not work. Try German Railroads volume1. Of the 61 activities included, I have only found one with any errors.In Protrain1 and 2, all the activities work. In short, if you are selling a product, all of it should work, Including MSTS original.David

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Quote: A lot of this is subjective nonsenseI've edited my post to include categorisation - something which I inadvertently omitted in the first place.Happy now, or do you still find some objection to the use of the words "most comprehensive" in this context?Bruce.

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There will always be a few that can't be pleased. It is for those lost causes that we must just get on with it, and enjoy what we have, instead of complaining about what we should have.And you didn't have to edit your comment Bruce, becuase while German Railroads is sweet, it is roughly a quarter of Cajon's size, and while Protrain 1 and 2 are also sweet routes, and just as long, Cajon has far better scenery and is more of a challange for true railroad buffs. I should know, I've run them all at least once.Once and for all, get over the activites with Cajon. Most have been fixed, a few are still being worked on, and maybe a few more you'll just have to deal with the inperfections and play with the 40 or so other activites.ChrisIt's not a game, it's a way of life.

http://groups.msn.com/tehachapi

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I still think it is somewhat subjective. We all like to think we live in the perfect world. and that applies to all Countries. The US main routes are long by definition, as it is a big country, while European routes tend to be smaller, but mostly double tracked. Obviously, we like to play routes that we have been brought up on, as they are what we conceive as typical.While I enjoy activities on Marias, and love the NEC route, it is nothing I have any real experience of.Leaving aside those considerations, I still consider a commercial route with major errors, to be unjustified.With the majority of MSTS users in the USA, any US commercial route will probably outsell anything produced in Europe. But it does not mean they are better.David

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-26-02 AT 01:19 AM (EDT)

Quote: "I still think it is somewhat subjective. "Well, of course it is, David!
Every opinion, bar none, is a subjective comment.
Maybe I should have included the words "in my opinion" in my initial post, but I took that as being read.And if you care to look at the original post, mate, the person is asking for opinion. ("Is is a good route?", he asks. The interpretation of what is "good" rests with the individual.)
He probably got all the objectivity he needed directly from the Cajon Pass reference page, which lists the features of the package.Satisfied now, or is there still something that you wish to chastise me about concerning my "subjectivity"?Bruce.

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If it is not European, DTA will not like. That is all there is to it.Kevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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i hear that hehe.

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>In short, if you are selling a product, all of it should
>work, Including MSTS original.
>
>David You haven't been around have you mate? I can look at almost any software title I've purchased and at some point it's been patched;
MS OFFICE,
MS Windows,
Easy CD Creator
Swat 3,
Star Trek Bridge Commander,
Star Trek DS9,
Trainz,
Falcon 4,
The Sims,
And the list goes on and on. 3DTS isn't the only company that didn't get it right the first time, but they've made a very good and prompt effort at putting it right, which is more than some companies with a lot more $$ do.
The true test of a good company isn't if their software is 100% the first time around, but rather how willing they are to make it right when the errors are found.Jim.

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Hardly fair Kevin, when I specifically stated I liked both the default US routes, and the Boddidly is my favourite route bar none.Just a mention to Jim: I said products, not computer products. Can you think of any other producer of goods, that would get away with selling goods the way software is sold? They would never get away with it. David

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Yes it is. To the best of my recollection every time addon payware routes are talked about you rip the US routes and talk about how much better the European ones are. Yes some of the US ones have some serious problems and as I have got into the guts of some of them designing activities I have so said on this forum and others. Of the three US payware routes that I have; KHP, Sandpatch, and Cajon, Cajon has turned out to be far superior. The problems that it had were quickly addressed by 3DTS, except for a couple of paths that were easily fixed. Maybe if I had the European routes talked about I would be able to make a comparison between the them and the US. I have seen some of the European routes in the computer stores and am seriously thinking of getting a couple once I have finished the activities I am working on for Raton and Cajon. We shall see.Kevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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Ok, so you are not subjective, despite creating activities for some of the US payroutes, and also with no knowledge of the European stuff.I am unfair, on the other hand, for having all the routes (not the bucket line).Well, that sounds completely logical, perhaps you should get a job as a politician, as most of them talk out of their posteriors!David

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Excuse me, I never made any comments comparing US verses European Routes. All I said was that you are obviously biased towards european routes. Nothing more nothing less. You must be the politician, talking without a clue what the other person said.Kevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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I only make comments on the US routes, because I can compare them with others I have. In my honest opinion, they are not as good as the European stuff, in terms of content, quality, errors, activities, and cost. Re the latter, this is partly due to shipment costs from the US compared to Europe. You originally made a blanket statement, that I hated all US routes, which I definitely do not, and you have been modifying your stance ever since, while never admitting you were wrong in the first place.Let it rest.David

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I am not wrong, look at you posts - you have continuously put down US payware routes. I have not changed my views on anything. I still think you are a biased fool. My only statement that I made was that you are biased; nothing more, nothing less. Before you make unfounded statements you should really read what a person said, not what you imagined he did. Kevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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So what is unbiased about your message 21 then? It is a sweeping statement, and factually incorrect. In other words it is a lie. Perhaps you forget what you said yourself.David

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No, it is true, I have not seen a favorable statement from you concerning any US payware route. You are heavily biased towards the european routes. That is FACT!Kevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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Do you look at what you write? Your original statement (21) says all US routes. There is nothing about payware there at all. You are making yourself look like an idiot.David

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-02 AT 05:09 PM (EDT)

Better read it again, don't forget your glasses? Don't see the phrase "all routes" in there.Kevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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So anything non European, is US payware routes? Your logic is pathetic.David

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-02 AT 04:41 PM (EST)

No, your english is. You want to try again? You statement makes no sense at all. And if I understand what you are trying to say, that makes even less sense.Lets try it this way -
Was not the original post here about payware? Not freeware? You are the one who made the leap from payware to all routes. I had assumed that since the thread was about PAYWARE that in Post 21 I did not need to qualify what I was talking about, I only added payware to later post to try to bring you back to the TOPIC. But that obviously didn't work. I guess you need a jackhammer to get it through your skull that was what I was talking about. I made no jumps from one to the other - you did.Kevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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I didn't make the leap, you did. You are really getting desperate now!For a start you did not even have to post a message in the first place, except you are biased towards stuff you have written activities for, so you just made a sarcastic comment.You don't have any European payware, so you have no justification in saying I am biased towards it. On the other hand I have most of the payware routes, so I can compare them, with no bias whatsoever. Having seen them, I think the European routes are better in all respects, and certainly in lack of faults. They are cheaper too!I don't need a jackhammer, you need a brain.Basically, you are not worth talking to, judging by your sarcastic help to newbies in the past, so I will no longer bother.David

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HIP HIP HOORAYKevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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>Can you think of any other producer of goods, that
>would get away with selling goods the way software is sold?
>They would never get away with it. Well, yes they would get away with it, and they do, because people understand that some things are just waaaay too complex to get everything right, all the time. Prescription drugs are an obvious example... every one of them has known side effects that appear in some people, and sometimes no one even knows why. Most drugs work for most people, most of the time, but there are times when the best of them causes a "crash," and there are some people in whom they simply do not work at all. This occurs even though drugs are put through some of the most exhausting testing procedures known to man. This goes on because the full complexities of the human body, in all its variations, are unknown. We accept this about drugs because it is the way things are. We don't stop trying to get better, but perfection is a long way off.The same thing happens with MSTS. No one outside Kuju really knows what goes on inside the "brains" of MSTS. Some things have been deduced experimentally, but much remains a mystery. Plus there is a problem similar to that with drugs, in that individual variations in users' configurations can cause something that works over here to not work over there. The big obvious groupings can be tested for, but there is always going to be some guy out there with the off-brand sound card and the USB web cam that interact in some funny way that no one could anticipate, hosing up other perfectly innocent applications and making them look like culprits.None of this is meant to excuse sloppy, untested code, but let's recognize that there is a level of complexity here that makes perfection virtually impossible to achieve. The real issue is how vendors react when people find problems.

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Good points, Bob, but I won't get drawn in to conversations about drugs or general healthcare, which is more akin to alchemy than anything else! There are always changes in "what is good for you" every few months, so I stick to the the premise that a little of anything is Ok.David

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>Good points, Bob, but I won't get drawn in to conversations
>about drugs or general healthcare, which is more akin to
>alchemy than anything else! There are always changes in
>"what is good for you" every few months, so I stick to the
>the premise that a little of anything is Ok.
>
>David I don't think Bob was making a point to get drawn into a discussion on health care or prescription drugs, but rather making a point in regards to you earlier comment that no one else gets away with selling a product which doesn’t work 100% of the time.
As for other companies that sell things that need to be fixed, I can think of many examples in day to day life, and don’t relate to health care. Ford and Bridgestone are an example that come to mind, plus other car companies often have to fix problems on their cars, Bombardier sold trains to Amtrak that need to be fixed, Samsung made a batch of DVD players that didn’t read all the codes for DVD’s. The point is that not all products are perfect when they are first released and fixes are needed to make them work properly, as Bob was pointing out, the problem is not unique to software developers. Companies work hard to produce something, but it doesn’t always work the way they want it too. So the answer to your question is yes, we’ve often encountered products that don’t work and most companies work hard to fix those problems, much as 3DTS have worked hard to fix the problems with their route.
So the original question in the post was, is Cajon Pass worth getting and the answer is yes, it’s a great route with a lot of detail to it and 3DTS have done an excellent job capturing the essence of the route. Were there problems with the route? Yes there were, but 3DTS have also tried very hard to fix those errors and make the route work the way they intended. Jim S.

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Very well written, the practice of medicine is mostly evidence based science with trial and error approaches. Software development is not that dissimilar. What usually works in a certain combination may not always work the same with all combinations.

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So how about that Cajon route? (Sorry, didn't mean to change the subject...)

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I'm in the crowd that own Kicking Horse Pass, Sandpatch, The Modern Tehachapi and Cajon Pass. While I like them all, I think that the Cajon Pass is the best value and route of them all.

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i'm curious as too who decided to run with the SD Coastline route, i remember last year someone was doing it but i tried to contact him and he never responded, anyways, cajon rocks, bottom line it's worth every penny, and i'm not to fond of payware.

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Ditto on the LA to San Diego route, I would buy that one as payware.

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i'll be willing to sell my soul for it. i've been waiting since i got this game almost 2 years ago.

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Well, get your soul ready, and as for not being fond of payware, you better start taking a likeing to payware, because it is a company doing the Surfliner Route, not a person. I won't give any info away any further, you'll just have to wait a little longer.As said above, 3DTS was working on it, but has since axed the idea, and has several other projects they are working on, and again, i'm not in the position to go into details.The bottom line, good things are coming, just sit tight, and soak up Cajon. It's not a game, it's a way of life.

http://groups.msn.com/tehachapi

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we'll my card is ready to be charged. i'm egarly awaiting more info.....

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being a 16 yr old at high school - with a girlfriend and cricket player - is there any chance 3D trains is going to realease the Flared Union Pacific SD70M's - the ones with the SD45 style radiator wings for free? - i think 3D trains did an excellent model of this locomotive (one of my favorites) and is there any way of 3D trains realesing it for free - just the SD70M - the other way is buying the entire cajon pass route - which is 70 bucks australian!! :Slolcheers
mike

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First of all, don't get too confused with names. 3dtrainstuff did the route, the rolling stock, the activites, and the modern diesels. 3dtrains, did the older diesel units, such as the F Units. Two different companies that worked closely together for a awesome product. Though I don't work for 3dtrainstuff, I imagine his answer to your question would be, "If you want the locomotive, you gotta buy the route."The price is a bit high, $38US, but it is so worth it! X-Mas is coming up soon, better start making that list.ChrisIt's not a game, it's a way of life.

http://groups.msn.com/tehachapi

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All I ask is that we have some sound regions in the next one OK? ) The desrt shouldn't be silent as it is on Cajon ...
How easy is it to add sound regions after the event ? I'd quite like crickets and stuff while I wait at red signals. Apart from that quibble , I loved Cajon , excellent rolling stock, miles of desert just a bit silent . jv

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>How easy is it to add sound regions after the event
>?Hi folks,Thank you everyone for all the kind words, and constructive comments regarding the Cajon Pass route. I also want to say that I too have enjoyed many of the other routes out there that are available from all over the world, infact, since msts came out over a year ago, the sim has opened up a whole new world of great railroading experiences for me.And jv, its not that hard to add sounds to a route from one of your other favorites, just search the forum or read one of the great tutorials available. Just keep in mind, the Cajon Pass route with its steep grades, three twisted mainlines, and distant mountains, we figured that we were already pushing the boundry on users framerates with this route as it was. The other thing we had/have to consider when doing routes like this, is that alot of times, three locomotives are just not going to cut it in getting a long manifest up this pass, and using more locomotives mean bigger hits on framerates..so finding that happy medium was/is not easy.Regarding the SD70m's, there is an CN and SP versions with our cabs (their old versions though) somewhere up on Nels server, and permission was given for that so go find them and enjoy! And yes, Marc did an excellent job on the stuff he did for Cajon, and so did many others on the 3DTrainStuff team, it was truly a major team effort that got the project out the door so people could enjoy taking a train over that Pass in Train Simulator.And as Chris pointed out earlier, we did axe the San Diego to LA project as too many people are already working on it or sections of it, we didn't see a need for three LA Union Staions out there We will concentrate on taking the existing Cajon Pass mainlines east in the near future..I will release more on this later.Ok, time for me to get this coal train out to Oro Grande.
Best regards,
Brad Brownwww.3DTrainStuff.com

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-02 AT 09:16 AM (EST)

Abo Canyon? I have two or three good articles on this line. This will make for some great activities.Kevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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Just out of interest will this extension be a seperate route or incorporated into a new version of the Cajon Pass?David>
>We will concentrate on taking the existing Cajon Pass
>mainlines east in the near future..I will release more on
>this later.
>

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Read the last part there David.... " I will release more on this later". 3DTS is much like MS, they like to keep things protected until they are ready to release more info about it. It wasn't untill about 2 or 3 weeks before Cajon was ready to be released that we found out about it.ChrisIt's not a game, it's a way of life.

http://groups.msn.com/tehachapi

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>It wasn't untill about 2 or 3 weeks before Cajon was
>ready to be released that we found out about it.
>
>Chris They had mentioned in these forums they were working on a Cajon Pass route a year ago when they released the Tehachapi Loop Developers edition, I had been looking forward to it for most of the year.

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At one point last year, they had a small preview for Cajon on thier site, but took it off, and not much was said untill near the release date. Nobody had much of a clue as to what all was going to be included, except for the Barstow to Riverside portion. I think the rest caught everybody by surprise. We all knew it was coming, but they kept a good lid on the project until they were ready to release it.ChrisIt's not a game, it's a way of life.

http://groups.msn.com/tehachapi

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FWIW, I did 75% of the modern diesels, including the flared radiator'd UP sets. I also did the passenger cars, the SP and ATSF cabooses (cabese), ATSF mech refers, San Berdoo station, parts of the yard lights, and a few other odds-n-ends. Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series Super Packs

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and you did a great job, keep up the good work Hack.

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The Super Chief, with its' polished sides,crisp decoration and detailed cars, is absolutely the best work done so far for MSTS. Marc just keeps setting the bar higher and higher.

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