Canada's newest sub disabled off Irish coast

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3717906.stm|Article>Yet another case of the Upholder/Victoria class living up to it's usual stellar reliability.I swear, these lemon-boats are going to get some Canadian sailors KILLED someday, and it's not like they were trouble free when in service of the RN either, whom I suspect dumped them for more than just the official reason that they wanted to go to an all-nuclear submarine force...And I thought the screwups with Australia's Collins class were bad.Jonathan Nikiforovs.
Milepost 180, CP Belleville Sub.Repainter for Yonder Locomotive Works.

"A crictic is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge the work of creative men. There is logic in this; he is unbiased - he hates all creative people equally." - Lazarus Long

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RE: Canada's newest sub disabled off Irish coast..., davereage, Oct-06-04, 10:36 AM, (1) RE: Canada's newest sub disabled off Irish coast..., JonN, Oct-06-04, 06:01 PM, (2) RE: Canada's newest sub disabled off Irish coast..., davereage, Oct-06-04, 11:53 PM, (3) RE: Canada's newest sub disabled off Irish coast..., pstraten, Oct-07-04, 01:03 PM, (4) RE: Canada's newest sub disabled off Irish coast..., JonN, Oct-07-04, 05:28 PM, (5) RE: Canada's newest sub disabled off Irish coast..., chucksc, Oct-07-04, 05:35 PM, (6) RE: Canada's newest sub disabled off Irish coast..., JonN, Oct-07-04, 05:45 PM, (7) RE: Canada's newest sub disabled off Irish coast..., Gixxer86g, Oct-07-04, 05:52 PM, (8) RE: Canada's newest sub disabled off Irish coast..., davereage, Oct-07-04, 06:08 PM, (9) RE: Canada's newest sub disabled off Irish coast..., CGW409, Oct-07-04, 06:25 PM, (10) RE: Canada's newest sub disabled off Irish coast..., Paul1953, Oct-08-04, 09:06 PM, (11)

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When the British Navy shows up to tow it, I suggest they tow it back to England and leave it there!At least between these subs and the Sea Kings (the previously the Labradors), the Canadian Forces must have the best maintenance personnel on earth!! Dave Reage - Beta Tester
Halifax, Canada

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>I swear, these lemon-boats are going to get some Canadian sailors
>KILLED someday...And it looks like my prophecy has been fulfilled sooner than I expected: One of the injured sailors died while being airlifted off the boat...Jonathan Nikiforovs.
Milepost 180, CP Belleville Sub.Repainter for Yonder Locomotive Works.

"A crictic is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge the work of creative men. There is logic in this; he is unbiased - he hates all creative people equally." - Lazarus Long

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It's a tragic loss, my thoughts go out to his family. Knowing it was someone who lived in my hometown (the subs are stationed here) makes it even more sad.The thing that makes me angry is that the military tried to brush it off like none of the sailors were seriously hurt, they even went as far as to tell all their families that they were alright.Not good.Dave Reage - Beta Tester
Halifax, Canada

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It is indeed sad news--I read about that Canadian Lieutenant on the BBC last night. It looks as though the Canadian Navy didn't get much of a "bargain" in leasing those subs.It may be another lesson in trying to fight, or prepare to fight, wars "on the cheap." We are beginning to see down south where that has gotten us in Iraq.PaulS

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Well, this whole thing wuth the Upholders just confirms what I already believed: Never buy weapons from Britain, they tend to suck big time.I noticed that the preparation of the boats was done by British Aerospace (BAe). Well, maybe that explains some of the problems: This is the same BAe screwed up the construction contract for the RN's new Astute-class SSNs so badly (thank to their utter incompetence, nothing worked or fitted properly hell, even the hull plates didn't even fit properly), that the British government had to find other contractors to help BAe get the project moving again, and now General Dynamics Electric Boat Division has practically taken over the entire project...Jonathan Nikiforovs.
Milepost 180, CP Belleville Sub.Repainter for Yonder Locomotive Works.

"A crictic is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge the work of creative men. There is logic in this; he is unbiased - he hates all creative people equally." - Lazarus Long

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-04 AT 05:37 PM (EDT)

The interesting thing is that the CanForces stepped right over a proposal to lease US Built Nukes that were newer than that Diseasil powered Junk based on "political guidance" from Ottowa....
H*ll it was my understanding that they actually gave more consideration to French Nukes.... (20 knot SOA answering forward bells, 30 knot SOA answering astern bells and 2 torpedo tubes in the bow and 6 in the stern )Think of these as Submersible Jaguars (Pre-Ford) with Classic Lucas Electric Electronics.....
(and yes I know all about ultra stealth - but these aren't them)
Chuck Schneider
Chief Cook, Bottle Washer and (Virtual) CEO

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-04 AT 05:47 PM (EDT)

>The interesting thing is that the CanForces stepped right
>over a proposal to lease US Built Nukes that were newer than
>that Diseasil powered Junk based on "political guidance"
>from Ottowa.... Don't nuke boats have pretty steep crew requirements (100+)? And what type of SSNs are we talking about, retired Sturgeons? Flight 1 LAs? I think our needs would be better served by new diesels (even though they're essentially nothing more than mobile minefields in modern naval warfare) like the German type 212, which cost about $400 million USD apiece, comes with all the goodies of modern diesels like AIP drive, and has a low crew requirement (about 30), and despite the fact that the purchase of 4 of those would cost us over $2 billion, it would probably save us alot in the long run. Also, the Upholders aren't that old, being comissioned between 1990-1993, but they always had problems, and I suspect Britain's reasons for getting rid of them were more than just the oficial line about the RN wanting to go to an all-nuclear submarine force.
Jonathan Nikiforovs.
Milepost 180, CP Belleville Sub.Repainter for Yonder Locomotive Works.

"A crictic is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge the work of creative men. There is logic in this; he is unbiased - he hates all creative people equally." - Lazarus Long

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-07-04 AT 05:56 PM (EDT)

That's a sin.These are first-class sailors and they deserve first-class equipment.Canada's not a third world country,they shouldn't be equipped like one.I wouldn't even sell those to the Chinese.

"Hold tight,feel the drivers bite,hear the whistle moan.Engine rockin' to the left and right,vibratin' in my bones.Once the locomotive steals your soul,you got a Casey Jones!"---Ian"Lemmy"Kilmister

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>These are first-class sailors and they deserve
>first-class equipment.Canada's not a third world
>country,they shouldn't be equipped like one.I couldn't agree more. Too bad the Canadian government doesn't see it that way (although supposedly they are chaning their minds)! It's one thing to make the decision not have a huge, US style military, it's another thing to not give the existing military the money the need to do their jobs properly and safely! Dave Reage - Beta Tester
Halifax, Canada

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Dave
Have to agree with you on this one,it's one thing for a sailor to die in combat,training or just a service related accident but unforgivible for one to die because they were supplied with what appears to be a shoddy built piece of crap sub purchased on the cheap.
The US may have disagreement about deployment but we try our damndest to make sure our guys are the best equipped, the Canadian armed forces deserve that much as well.Gary S

43 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

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The greatest danger to the Canadian military is the Canadian federal government! Paul Watson
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I hear my train a comin'--Jimi Hendrix

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