Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47

Found these while dumping years of accumulated crap......Classic Early Cold-War strategic bomber, the Boeing B-47. Anyone remember its' moniker? Renton, Washington, 1968:
My Dad inspects the outrigger bay.

What a profile.-back to diggin....Tim

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RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, DRGWK36, Aug-12-04, 03:23 PM, (1) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, tryagin, Aug-12-04, 04:09 PM, (2) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, CGW409, Aug-12-04, 06:56 PM, (4) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, tryagin, Aug-12-04, 07:03 PM, (5) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, CGW409, Aug-13-04, 05:51 PM, (11) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, tryagin, Aug-13-04, 06:19 PM, (12) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, shadowr434, Aug-22-04, 04:53 PM, (30) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, Erick_Cantu, Aug-12-04, 04:13 PM, (3) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, CPR_Malice_96th, Aug-12-04, 08:32 PM, (6) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, tryagin, Aug-12-04, 08:38 PM, (7) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, DRGWK36, Aug-13-04, 10:40 AM, (8) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, Erick_Cantu, Aug-13-04, 11:43 PM, (13) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, KeltikSylk, Aug-13-04, 03:39 PM, (9) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, tryagin, Aug-13-04, 04:04 PM, (10) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, KeltikSylk, Aug-14-04, 08:24 PM, (14) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, tryagin, Aug-14-04, 09:03 PM, (15) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, BeaverMon, Aug-14-04, 09:12 PM, (16) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, tryagin, Aug-14-04, 10:55 PM, (17) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, BeaverMon, Aug-14-04, 11:02 PM, (18) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, KeltikSylk, Aug-16-04, 10:28 AM, (19) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, tryagin, Aug-16-04, 11:44 AM, (20) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, KeltikSylk, Aug-17-04, 09:24 AM, (21) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, tryagin, Aug-17-04, 10:21 AM, (22) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, KeltikSylk, Aug-17-04, 12:22 PM, (23) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, tryagin, Aug-17-04, 05:16 PM, (24) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, CGW409, Aug-17-04, 07:27 PM, (25) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, KeltikSylk, Aug-18-04, 01:37 PM, (26) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, CGW409, Aug-18-04, 07:58 PM, (28) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, KeltikSylk, Aug-18-04, 08:45 PM, (29) RE: Another Classic Plane: Boeing B-47, NW_611, Aug-18-04, 03:25 PM, (27)

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-12-04 AT 03:25 PM (EST)

>Anyone remember its' moniker?Stratojet.I wish I could say that's from memory, but it's from Google. At one point I could have brought it up from memory, but no longer... I used to have a nice plastic model of one. Remember the B58 (Hustler)? Had one of those, too.(edit)
I think the Boeing sequence was:Flying Fortress (B17)
Super Fortress (B29)
Strato Fortress (B36 - with the pusher props and outboard jets)
StratoJetAndy

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Hey Andy, I know about the memory loss....Ever since they put up that cell phone tower....Yep, Stratojet. And I had a model of the B-58 Hustler-man what a cool jet! The B-36 was called The Peacemaker! Bet that name sold to alot of congressmen in those days!Isn't the B-52 the Stratofortress?Tim

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Tim
IIRC wasn't the Stratojet featured prominatly in Strategic Air Command with Jimmy Stewart?
My dad was Airforce about that era(ground crew on the KC97 tankers)and relayed a story a visit to the base by Col. Stewart(I think that was the rank at the time,yes for those unaware Jimmy Stewart was an active member until the end of the Vietnam war) where someone goofed up that required a dressing down by said Col. Stewart, Dad was struck by how the folksy trademark stutter vanished.
Right on on the 52 Stratofortress, got a halfway decent Stratojet and Hustler for FS2K2 bummer thing while there is a Peacemaker it's for FS95 so it's kind of cheesy.Andy
If that Hustler model was the Monogram kit with the airman and ground crew figures and dropping bomb you can probably relive your childhood just a bit(and if like me build it better than you did as a kid) as Monogram repopped that kit a couple years back and should still be reasonably easy to find.Gary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

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Gary,
It's been so long since I have seen the movie, I couldn't confirm your question. But I loved the story about Col. Stewart ! Didn't he fly Forts in WWII?Tim

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Tim
They used to have a show on one of the local PBS stations called Legends Of Airpower (hain't been shown in months now) but from the episode on Mr Stewart's less well known career I want to say while he did fly for the Army Air Corp in the big one I want to say Liberator or Mitchell, maybe someone where the show has played more recently or knows Jimmy Stewart's military career better can fill in.Gary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

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Gary,
I did a google on Jimmy Stewart and came on this:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/js.htmYou are right, he commanded a Liberator group. He was already in the Air Corp and had 400 hrs by the time of Pearl Harbor.Tim

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-22-04 AT 04:54 PM (EST)

>Tim
>IIRC wasn't the Stratojet featured prominatly in Strategic
>Air Command with Jimmy Stewart?
>My dad was Airforce about that era(ground crew on the KC97
>tankers)and relayed a story a visit to the base by Col.
>Stewart(I think that was the rank at the time,yes for those
>unaware Jimmy Stewart was an active member until the end of
>the Vietnam war) where someone goofed up that required a
>dressing down by said Col. Stewart, Dad was struck by how
>the folksy trademark stutter vanished.
>Right on on the 52 Stratofortress, got a halfway decent
>Stratojet and Hustler for FS2K2 bummer thing while there is
>a Peacemaker it's for FS95 so it's kind of cheesy.
>
>Andy
>If that Hustler model was the Monogram kit with the airman
>and ground crew figures and dropping bomb you can probably
>relive your childhood just a bit(and if like me build it
>better than you did as a kid) as Monogram repopped that kit
>a couple years back and should still be reasonably easy to
>find.
Look for rlsacb36.zip in the flight-sim.com library. Its a FS 2002 model but too early a model to use in FS2004.

Frank Roberts
P&D Tractor trailer Driver for R&L Carriers
"Sometimes I dream about being carried off by a big giant squirrel. Does that make me a nut?"

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The Stratofortress is the B-52. The B-36 is a Convair aeroplane. "The F59PHI and Genesis are the lamest excuses for locomotives Amtrak has ever operated - accept it and move on. Hug an F40 before it's too late!"

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>The Stratofortress is the B-52. The B-36 is a Convair
>aeroplane.
>I second that !!Later

Tim Kent – 96th_Malice - Winnipeg Canada

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Convair was the builder to clarify. It was called "The Peacemaker". Tim

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See. I warned you guys about my memory....Andy

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I tell ya, Convair made a lot of great planes. Of all the first generation jetliners the 990 is the best in my book, and no turboprop is cooler than the 580. Hell, the F-16 counts as a Convair design. Everything they made was great in my opinion.Anyone else here hear about N586P? It was one of Air Tahoma's CV-580s, it went down tosay at CVG. Sad stuff, the F/O was killed on impact. "The F59PHI and Genesis are the lamest excuses for locomotives Amtrak has ever operated - accept it and move on. Hug an F40 before it's too late!"

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-13-04 AT 03:42 PM (EST)

Tim,
Only remotely related to the B-47...I was going through those Burlington books that Chuck sent me. They mentioned a guy named Norman Bel Geddes having an influence on the Zephyr designer. It stuck in my mind because my wife loves those Ann Geddes "baby exploitation" pictures....Anyway...Anyway, today I found this picture of a Bel Geddes aircraft design...
Have you by any chance ever seen "The Shape of Things to Come". Same kind of art deco look to those ships...The drawings are here...
http://home.att.net/~dannysoar/BelGeddes.htmFrank MusickMoving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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Yes, I've seen "The Shape of Things To Come", and it is a wonderful sampling of "futuristic" art-deco stuff. The story is good too. About the BelGeddes flying luxury liner. One thought comes to mind. How on earth would the captains keep that ship in trim? With over 700 souls wandering around, playing shuffleboard, a dance hall!!, et al, I don't see how in 1930's, -40's even -50's technology that any one could maintain a level flight with all that going on! Then consider the dynamics of flight, and the effects of turning and banking, descent and ascent, on all that stuff in there. The added mass centrifugal forces of an orchestra, restaurants, kitchens,etc, plus the "machine shop" in the engine rooms with it's own railroad for transferring engines in flight, I'd think the whole enchilada would come "unglued" the first time any serious weather came up. Thanks, Frank, great link.Tim

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Yes you're right, did they list a swimming pool...What a mess that would make One fun thing about the earlier decades of the 20th Century, their ignorance made them very imaginative and optimistic. They didn't know things were impossible, so they just assumed they could do it. It made for some interesting ideas. Not very practical, but interesting none the less.Like you said, though there is only so many things you can do with an aircraft. A good example is the Zepplin and kin. Most people think it was the Hindenburg disaster that brought that era to an end. They don't realize that all of those huge bulks were highly subject to the whims of nature. Anything less than perfect weather was a cause for real concern. On the other hand, a conventional air craft can challenge weather that would tear even the biggest lighter than air to scrap. In fact it seems the heavier the better, witness the monsters we fly today. So in a sense Bel Geddes was more correct than we would think. With today's electronics we can make flying even the balkiest plane a cake walk. The question is this...would we really want to play shuffleboard in an airplane?Frank MusickMoving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-04 AT 09:05 PM (EST)

Dancing would be a trip! The US Navy lost quite a few airships to weather. I think that was their demise for this service.My wife's Uncle Lee Cermak was a blimp pilot for Goodyear for many years, and was on the developement team for Goodyear's "rubber airplane", and other aero projects. He later went on to work on the development team for
the modern airships used for logging and flew the newer advertising ships for Goodyear. He was the pilot whose ship deflated over New York City back in the 90's. The control car landed right on the edge of an apartment building, narrowly escaping death by plummeting over the side. He ended up with a broken collar bone, and couldn't fly after that. He died a couple years ago, unrelated to the crash. He was a great guy.Tim

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-04 AT 09:32 PM (EST)

I think that looks like "The Flying Wing" if I'm not mistaken. It's a biggy. It's a classic. Great picture! No landing gear but it looks like it has floats for water landing.
I think it was designed as a spy plane for WW2? It looks like it was made to keep it from being detected by enemy radar.-BeaverMon, AKA Ben-

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The Flying Wing was the Northrop B-49. It was a post-WWII bomber surrounded by controversy and conspiracy. They never made it to full operational status because of political/industrial chicanery of the period. But it was by no means "stealthy", and never designed as such.
Different plane.Tim

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-14-04 AT 11:03 PM (EST)

Ok. It just looked like it to me. My bad. That's defentally "The Flying Wing".
I saw it at our airshow "Thunder Over Louisville" once.-BeaverMon, AKA Ben-
-BETA Tester for the PO&N Route-

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The YB-49 also appeared in George Pal's 1955 film "War of the Worlds", along with some cheesy dialog about the A bomb..."The flying wing's gonna carry it". All to no avail, as the Martians were not to thwarted by a mere atomic blast.The YB-49 was the last of a rather long line of Northrup designs in the 40's. Most of them were single seaters, prop and jet. One, the YB39, was a prop driven giant...
http://www.davidszondy.com/future/Flight/northrupwing.htm
...and predecessor to the jet powered YB-49.The YB-49 was overshadowed by the B-47, some believe through political manipulation. Maybe...Perhaps the Air Force pilots didn't trust a radically new design. We know today that the B-2 requires computer assisted technology to fly, something not available with the YB-49. Either one was a beauty to behold, especially when compared to what is undoubtedly the ugliest plane ever flown by SAC, Convair's B-36 "Peacemaker"...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-36-pics.htm
...of which almost 400 were built. No choice as they were the only aircraft at the time capable of carrying thermo-nuclear weapons (the H-Bomb) until replaced by B-52s in 1954 or so.Anyway, back to the point...The Germans had a parallel flying wing program, driven by the Horten brothers, that almost went into production in 1945. The only surviving jet powered HO-IX, built by Gotha under license as the GO-229, is in the Smithsonian "garage", awaiting restoration. It was this plane that had "stealth" characteristics. Though not designed as a stealth aircraft, it's low radar signature was a happy accident due to it's plywood construction and unusual shape. Apparently the Germans noticed it's "stealth" quality during it's test flights.It's reported that the GO-229 is the plane studied by the designers of the B-2. In fact, the Horten brothers were reputedly working on a similar design at the end of the war, a huge transatlantic bomber to nuke New York.Apparently the Hortens had also solved stability issues Northrup faced, years before Northrup ran across them. The distinctive drag rudders used on the modern B-2 is a Horten development, as well as the "hidden" jet engines. In the original design of the Horten IX the engines were completely enlosed within the wing roots. There were production problems with these smaller BMW turbo jets, so the Hortens were forced to go with the larger Jumo engines. These were too big to hide within the structure, requiring those large nacelles. Despite that, they still present a smaller radar signature than comtempory fighter aircraft.Here's some sites on the Horten, including a French site with some very cool pictures of the different Horten prototypes...
http://users.pandora.be/bert.dujardin/Go_229.htm
http://jpcolliat.free.fr/ho9/ho9-1.htm
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/gaz/gotha.html
http://aerostories.free.fr/constructeurs/horten/page2.html
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/WWII/horten/info/info.htmNotice that the flying wing was a viable concept even in the era of biplanes.I'm awed by the fact that these things existed at all, and that they were jet powered, well over fifty years ago. I'm also very glad the Hortens greatest project, the Amerika bomber, never had chance to succeed.Instead they went to Argentina and built aircraft there...Frank MusickMoving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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Great post Frank. The Nazi's experimental aircraft are fascinating, even tho they were pushed by a fascist regime. Your statement, I quote:
I'm also very glad the Hortens greatest project, the Amerika bomber, never had chance to succeed. --I don't think it would have ever had a chance. Rockefeller wouldn't allow it Do you remember Messerschmitt's earlier experimental "New York Bomber"? It looked very similar to the B-29. I can't remember it's designated ME-number now. Tim

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Hoky Smoke!Had never seen what you were talking about so I went digging...
http://www.luft46.com/prototyp/me264.html6 engines? And the jet versions...The penetration chart is a tad scary too.We are very lucky that the Germans are perfectionists and did not push these into production in 1943. Seems like every one of the German super weapons was developed early enough to turn the tide of the war if thrown into production. The Allied forces had a tendency to build now, fix later (as evidenced by the B-26 fatalities and glitches in the P-47 (high landing speeds) and P-38 (compressibility issues). A decidedly American trait, it probably saved the day. If the Nazis had been a little more laissez-faire we'd all be eating kraut mit der schnitzel.Frank MusickMoving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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Wow, I've never seen such documentation on the ME-264, and its' variants. I had Greene's thick tome "Warplanes of the Third Reich", and while the text was in-depth, he didn't have all the photos and charts that this web page has. If the Nazis had been a little more laissez-faire we'd all be eating kraut mit der schnitzel. --True. But if the Bushies have their way, we may all be goose-stepping before the next year is out.By the way, Frank, what does "laissez-faire" mean? "Easy-going" is my guess. Cheers!Tim

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That's what I get for reading too much...It's actually a political term which I take to mean easy going, just as you said. I decided to look it up and it's really used to describe a hands off, non-iterference style of political policy. In French it simply means "to let, or allow, to do". I guess the closest English would be "leave them to their own devices".Even the French seem opposed to micro management.Anyway, yes...If the Germans had been a little less "German" and let creativity go it's natural way...Fortunately, some things carry the seeds of their own destruction, including the "master race".As for the Bush dynasty...There's another set of Aryans in need of a good whacking...Am I wrong or are they taking advantage of the hurricane to "facilitate" some early voting? Hopefully the Bushes too will destroy themselves by their own folly. You can only piss away so much money, jobs, and American lives before the rank and file starts to get a little unruly.There I go again, speaking poorly of God's annointed one...I'll end up in hell if I don't learn to keep my mouth shut Frank MusickMoving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-17-04 AT 05:49 PM (EST)

As for the Bush dynasty...There's another set of Aryans in need of a good whacking...Am I wrong or are they taking advantage of the hurricane to "facilitate" some early voting? Hopefully the Bushes too will destroy themselves by their own folly. You can only piss away so much money, jobs, and American lives before the rank and file starts to get a little unruly.Well, quite! Don't forget governor Jeb Bush down in FLA is as crooked as the rest of 'em. So, yah, they'll no doubt try some "slight-of-hand". There I go again, speaking poorly of God's annointed one...I'll end up in hell if I don't learn to keep my mouth shutWhenever I hear of Dubya's "born Again" staus, I just have to laugh. That guy is so far removed from Christian doctrine, his middle name should be "Bealza-dubya". I better stop it here, or I'll be there in hell with ya! Tim

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FrankAm I wrong or are they taking advantage of the hurricane to "facilitate" some early voting? Hopefully the Bushes too will destroy themselves by their own folly. You can only piss away so much money, jobs, and American lives before the rank and file starts to get a little unruly.I really think it's getting to the point where Bush(at least to some)is damned if he does,damned if he doesn't,presidents tour national disaster sites regardless of election year or not and regardless of an R or D next to the name so Kerry is just taking cheap shots by complaining that Dubbyas getting in the way, if he waited Kerry'd be screaming that Bush don't care about the little guy.
I'd also like to point out that the economy was well into a nose dive in late 00(Reno going after Microsoft stuck a pin in the tech bubble)and the economy was officially in recession in March 01 and since Bush was sworn in late Jan 01 I highly doubt he tanked the economy in a month and a half, if any thing the tax cuts kept 9/11 and the various corporate scandals from dropping us into a deeper recession(or god forbid,depression).
Everyone seems to think that we had some choice as to war or no war, even Vladimir Putin despite Russia's objection to our going into Iraq forwarded intel that the KGB(or whatever the Russian intel outfit is called these days)had uncovered that Saddam was moving to attack US interests abroad and on our own soil through terrorist proxys had Bush recived this info and done nothing then I would be the first calling for impeachment.
Florida has been beat to death and there is an awful lot of rewriting of history as to just what went on in 00, while there is all sorts of talk about disenfranchised voters there has yet to have been one voter who will swear under oath that they were denied,however no one seems to ever want to bring up voters that were diliberatly targeted to have their ballots tossed out on whatever technicality could be found, those would be the military absentee ballots that Gore had his people get tossed.
While Bush has his faults I do not view the man through the Michael Moore wackjob filter and most certainly don't view John"secret agent man" Kerry as the salvation of our nation.Gary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-04 AT 02:35 PM (EST)

Well I agree with you on one thing...The tax cuts did keep our wealthiest citizens from falling into "god forbid,depression". I'll bet Bush raised their spirits immensely...We are now 2 trillion dollars deeper in debt and most of it to the wealthy few who invested in U.S. bonds and t-bills. If the commentary I heard is correct, we gave these folks a tax break and then "borrowed" money off their favorite investments, incurring debt that the middle class will be paying off with their hard earned tax dollars (provided their jobs don't get off-shored to India).The man can barely master the English language, let alone run the most powerful empire on the planet. I know the Bush's are fond of their "special child" but that's not really a qualification for the presidency. I refuse to vote for any idiot just because my pastor says so, especially when the "moral fiber" that guides his decisiveness can only come from the shredded wheat he had for breakfast.I have not seen Michael Moores latest bid for my pocket change. Like Ralph Nader he's just another wealthy man making a living standing up for the "little guy". We should trade both of them for cheaper pharmaceuticals from the Canadians, but they wouldn't want either on of them.I am of the opinion "W" has had his turn at bat and missed every pitch. I do not like what I've seen, read, and heard of the man, his character, or his presidency. I am voting against Mr Bush come November.Frank MusickMoving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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FrankThe tax cuts did keep our wealthiest citizens from falling into "god forbid,depression". I'll bet Bush raised their spirits immensely...We are now 2 trillion dollars deeper in debt and most of it to the wealthy few who invested in U.S. bonds and t-bills.Actually I saw a real nice bump in my tax refund since the tax cuts and I drive a truck for a living, the wife and I pull down somewhere in the high 50 to low 60 K a year and belive me we ain't rich(though we do fall into that category as defined by liberals)under Bush you paid taxes you got a tax cut unlike the jump through hoops tax cuts that Gore was proposing, sure the rich got bigger cuts the more you pay the bigger the cut.The man can barely master the English language, let alone run the most powerful empire on the planet. I know the Bush's are fond of their "special child" but that's not really a qualification for the presidency. I refuse to vote for any idiot just because my pastor says so, especially when the "moral fiber" that guides his decisiveness can only come from the shredded wheat he had for breakfast.Personally I'm more concerned with whats said as opposed to some verbal faux pauxs, and agreed one should never base their vote as what their pastor says, from everything I've seen Bush's spiritual side is one that's a personel faith(I've no problem with that)and tends to keep the Pat Robertson wing(be christian or go to jail wing)at arms length.I have not seen Michael Moores latest bid for my pocket change. Like Ralph Nader he's just another wealthy man making a living standing up for the "little guy". We should trade both of them for cheaper pharmaceuticals from the Canadians, but they wouldn't want either on of them.The Canadians aren't that stupid , I'd suggest having Ted Kennedy drive them around an area with lots of deep water in a Corvair but while the Corvair did come in a pick up version I doubt they had one that could handle that wide load.
Moore just grates on my nerves with his whole"don't you realize who I am?" attitude, I belive I mentioned in another post that the Bloomington Pantograph here in Ill. was suing Moore for taking a headline from a letter to the editor and Photoshopping it to the front page to make the Gore won case,Moore's lawyer told the Pantograph to shove off and what Moore did was "fair use" so it looks like lil Mikey will be going to court as the Pantograph shall we say begs to differ.I am of the opinion "W" has had his turn at bat and missed every pitch. I do not like what I've seen, read, and heard of the man, his character, or his presidency. I am voting against Mr Bush come November.Well this is where we agree to disaagree, you must vote your consience and do what you feel is right, my main point was mainly if you've got legitimate disagreement with the man,fine, hell if you just plain don't like him,fine , all I'm saying is just try to avoid the claims that come off sounding like some of the tin foil hat brigade on the right made regarding the Clintons, granted there were things that needed investigating(perjury despite the claims of the Clinton defenders is a big deal)but the "Clinton had the Oklahoma City bombing done to forward some scheme" or Hillary had Vince Foster wacked were just plain whackjobbery on the right as are the claims the Bush uses terror warnings to detract from Kerry.Gary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-18-04 AT 08:46 PM (EST)

As always, it's a matter of perspective...Mr. Bush's tax cuts somehow bypassed me and mine (perhaps they were depleted by the time they got down to our level). I'm also one of the few people I know faced with thier "job role transitioning to India". The Republicans in general have always spelt doom for us, we just don't seem to do well when the GOP is in control of the country. Even Saint Ronald of California was a bain, those eight years of Republican rule almost finished us off.As for personal beliefs etc, I don't believe "W" has any. I don't believe he has any higher sense of morality than Clinton had, he just hasn't been cornered yet. Going to church does not a "Christian" make (if there really is such a thing). If he really had strong spiritual direction, I doubt he would have gotten anywhere in politics.My comment on his abilities at public speaking is based on the fact that he really does not appear to understand what he is talking about a great percentage of the time. He seems rather uneducated for all his schooling, probably a side affect of his partying through college. Worse, he doesn't seem to possesses any great degree of natural intelligence whatsoever.When speaking about Florida, I was not referring to the last election. I am referring to today, in the aftermath of Charley, where I hear rumors of some manipulation of the voting arrangements for the upcoming elections in the devestated areas. I do not trust "W" or Jeb to do the right thing in any given situation. I am convinced that their chief motive in all things is the enhancement of the family money and power.One final thing...I do not follow the "whackjob" theories (with the possible exception that "W" actually is a whackjob). To me they have the same weight as the UFO crash in Roswell. I think the people who promote these conspiracy theories are giving the poor humans who run this country too much credit. All of them put together are not swift enough to pull off one tenth of the things claimed, if at all. If they were actually that clever, they would have real jobs like the rest of us.Okay, I'll shut up now...Let's return to a more pleasant subject, like avoiding thermo-nuclear annililation just long enough to experience extinction level meteor impacts.Frank MusickMoving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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The following is offered without any intent to promote a particular political agenda. I'm NW 611, and I approve this message.In the early days of then-Governor Bush's campaign for the Presidency, stories were circulated saying that he had taken careful note of his father's administration and its electoral perils. With that being said, let me interject something vaguely remembered from the 1992 electoral period:Reportedly, Florida voters were dissatisified with the Federal response to the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew. Being an election year, the Florida electorate chose to make their displeasure with relief measures a part of their voting equation, and thus contributed to the defeat of President G.H.W. Bush that same year.Assuming that the initial stories with regards to 43 are true, then he would be well aware of this, and would probably be ready to descend upon Florida bearing a big check (or promises thereof). Opinion: I am tired of Florida being so all-fired important. NB: The successor agency to the KGB is, according to several sources, the FSB, or Federal Security Service.

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Norfolk & Western’s Radford Division, Pulaski District: Who needs the Marias Pass?

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