Legal issues

To address the questions and concern of the legality of reading MSTS formats and up grading to a new format:Yes, we have checked with lawyers. And this is not a problem In fact, the precedent is well set by Microsoft themselves. When they introduced MS Word it could read WordPerfect files. When they introduced Excel it could read a Lotus file better than Lotus. To this day the Open dropdown still has “WordPerfect 6.x (*.doc, *.wpd)”. Countless other programs, CAD, Graphics and others contain translators for competitive products. What is not legal is stealing other peoples work. This includes using any copyrighted material without permission. Copyright law no longer requires the Copyright notification. So if you did not write, draw, photograph, or record (yes, wav files) it, consider it copyrighted. Using someone else’s work without their permission is immoral and illegal, unless this work is already in the public domain. This issue has been dealt with in the printed world since the invention of the printing press. The lighting quick copy and paste computer world makes it so easy but no more legal than credit card fraud. Our intention by making our program upwardly compatible was to preserve the thousands of wonderful models and routes made by the community. And to preserve the tools we are used to without requiring the customer to purchase new tools or worse learn a new one. I am a fan of TSM and other simple programs. I was able to create my favorite GE 44 ton. It is in .s format and I have no desire to draw it over again. We wanted to preserve the outstanding models and routes done by people like Rich Garber and for those who purchased routes or models from one of the many outstanding 3rd party add-on companies we wanted to preserve this investment as well. When using or up-grading any files, you must abide by the rules set down in their read-me or other license. Usually they do not want you to represent their work as your own, give them recognition and not to use it for commercial purposes, etc. Whatever the requests, you must honor them. Translating their work into another format in no way relives you of this responsibility.Michael

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RE: Legal issues:, jeffmorris, May-15-04, 05:39 PM, (1) RE: Legal issues:, Cribbo, May-15-04, 07:47 PM, (2) RE: Legal issues:, RailDriver, May-16-04, 06:36 AM, (3) RE: Legal issues:, plainsman, May-16-04, 07:40 AM, (4) RE: Legal issues:, NoMoreTrains, May-16-04, 10:31 AM, (5) RE: Legal issues:, Cribbo, May-16-04, 10:45 AM, (6) RE: Legal issues:, Johansteam, May-19-04, 02:28 PM, (7) RE: Legal issues:, RailDriver, May-19-04, 08:16 PM, (8) RE: Legal issues:, Johansteam, May-21-04, 10:58 AM, (9) RE: Legal issues:, TimCourt, May-21-04, 09:06 PM, (10)

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I'm not sure if the new program will load MSTS files directly, especially the route files. How will the new program run MSTS routes if you don't know how MSTS runs routes. I know that Microsoft cancelled MSTS2 but I'm not sure if you or Tim Court contact Microsoft about taking over the development of MSTS2. Looking at images of locomotives and rolling stock created by Train Artisan makes me think that the new program will be better than MSTS and Trainz.

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LAST EDITED ON May-15-04 AT 07:51 PM (EDT)

Well for one thing - it's a relief that the new sim will be able to make use of the file formats, in particular objects created to TSM etc.As to the ability to read/translate MSTS routes, there are still some questions you could answer (if possible at this time).Provided that an end-user has installation of MSTS and say downloads or purchases a route that uses default Kuju objects - then the objects could be copied from the MSTS install and used. (Current freeware practice on many distributed routes.)However looking into the future if the route author wished to upgrade his/her/their route to a TMTS version then all of the MSTS objects, textures and track would have to be removed to make it exclusively a TMTS route. As has been stated 3rd party content such as alternative track sections, custom buildings & of course rolling stock could continue to be used - provided the authors EULA & copyright is respected.So if this is the case then there may need to be a alternative track system available that can be substituted for the Kuju track objects, perhaps the 3Dtrains ScaleRail if that project has not suffered the same fate as MSTS2, or your own inhouse system. I should state that I am not trying to gain knowledge of any arrangements that are under NDA agreements - if you wish to decline to answer at this time I will respect that.But this is an important issue for route builder who currently have an MSTS route project completed, commenced or are just contemplating one. It is also an issue for those people who may have been intending to purchase one of the many fine 3rd party routes currently available. If all these routes are to have an upgrade path many years into the future (as these are long term projects and involve months if not years of work) then an indication of how you intend to make it possible to convert a route to a new format would be helpful. If it involves using a new track system, then that's fair enough, as long as terraformed terrain (not Kuju terrain), markers and compatible custom objects are able to be transfered that would be good.Cheers Cribbo.

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The technical areas of Up-grade are fairly simple. In the end the data needed to place buildings, track, and terrain is all pretty much the same, so there is a direct mathematical correlation. A model has to rendered by the graphics card in the end. So the reading and translating has proven possible.Again for a professional program there were good reasons for using the MSTS format but not for a seamless up grade. These issues of MS default content and what came from where, were not important as the routes are completely custom and new. We are fully aware of this issue. We do have several route other builders who are concerned as well. I will hold off on all the details. But we will provide the best path possible through, substitution, common default library, and some built in functions in the editors. We take support of pre-made routes as an important feature.Michael

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Hi Michael,
If I might suggest a few things with how the program handles physics. Could we get a direct input parameter for transmission efficiency, and operative curve resistance? Also, could we loose the numwheels parameter and substitute a % of weight on drivers parameter. Could we also do away with the 420,000 pound weight limit? And if possible, enable shunting and transition for older units. I will assume that the prototypical performance of all couplers is a given, and can we get traction motors to fail as they should as well? Also, don't forget the dynamic brake bug (we have a good work around that solves this, but it looks awfully silly). And one more thing, could we get power limiting below set speeds?
Thanks very much!!
Bob Boudoin

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Or better yet, can we just get Bob to help PIE with the physics?

Ray

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I'm glad that you are aware of the issues and your intention to support pre-made routes.
I will resist the temptation to add to the wishlist, really as long the final product comes close to the stated goals on your website, I'm already inclined to a bundled sim/raildriver console purchase.I wish the project well, and await further progress reports at a time of your choosing Cheers Cribbo.

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Just a small question? Will this new sim ONLY be compatable with TSM objects? What about 3D Canvas, GMax, etc. etc.?
johan.

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Our converters can import any MSTS model regardless of what the original creation program was. To the best of our knowledge if MSTS could read the model then we can read it and translate into our format. This will allow you to continue to use your favorite model editor. The new format contains more features than the MSTS format, so to get the most from the new format using an editor that fully supports the new formats will be beneficial.Michael

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LAST EDITED ON May-21-04 AT 11:00 AM (EDT)

Thanks for the reply and the info regarding having a better format than MSTS.
BTW Have you received my e-mail? I included my e-mail address in there.
Johan.

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LAST EDITED ON May-21-04 AT 09:06 PM (EDT)

Johan,Its probably in my inbox, I have been off for a couple of days since it seems we got hit with some germ warfare from somewhere!Better now, I should get to it monday and, having a policy if replying to every email we get then keep an eye out for my response!Tim

Member of the Royal Guild of Route Builders

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