MSTS-2005 ?

Don't know whether it's a good idea to mention this but I finally got a tip from somebody connected with GAMES Distributing saying that they have been told by M$ that the anticipated release date for MSTS-2 is MAY 2005.And it would not be a KUJU follow-on but a completely re-designed Train Sim.Many of you have suggested that this will be the case and that it would take years for Microsoft to create a completely new MSTS from scratch.But if it is what we have been asking for then it will be worth the wait, newer hardware and graphics technology giving us a Train Simming experience second to none and on a par with FS-200? ! My only concern is to make sure that I am still around to enjoy it !!! O t t o

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RE: MSTS-2005 ?, SAVV, Dec-10-03, 05:08 PM, (1) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, kevarc, Dec-10-03, 05:12 PM, (2) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, Vulcan Foundry, Dec-10-03, 06:39 PM, (4) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, AlphaMaster, Dec-11-03, 04:05 PM, (17) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, NoMoreTrains, Dec-11-03, 10:56 AM, (13) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, Poltergeist, Dec-10-03, 05:50 PM, (3) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, Vulcan Foundry, Dec-10-03, 06:40 PM, (5) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, lucazone, Dec-11-03, 03:22 AM, (6) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, Stooopid_person, Dec-11-03, 05:52 AM, (7) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, J94Fan, Dec-11-03, 05:57 AM, (8) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, OTTODAD, Dec-11-03, 08:00 AM, (9) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, decapod, Dec-11-03, 08:38 AM, (10) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, Stooopid_person, Dec-11-03, 08:39 AM, (11) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, rjdiii, Dec-15-03, 10:45 PM, (28) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, OTTODAD, Dec-16-03, 09:13 AM, (29) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, dgauci, Dec-21-03, 10:27 AM, (31) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, cytrain, Dec-11-03, 10:45 AM, (12) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, OTTODAD, Dec-11-03, 01:41 PM, (15) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, edwardk, Dec-11-03, 01:19 PM, (14) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, dejoh, Dec-11-03, 04:00 PM, (16) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, Stooopid_person, Dec-11-03, 10:57 PM, (18) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, Macster, Dec-12-03, 01:19 AM, (19) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, deejay1020, Dec-12-03, 02:20 AM, (20) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, Scrappy, Dec-12-03, 04:49 PM, (21) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, BNSF4723, Dec-12-03, 06:44 PM, (22) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, dgauci, Dec-13-03, 02:23 AM, (23) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, happyj, Dec-13-03, 04:10 AM, (24) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, edwardk, Dec-13-03, 02:32 PM, (25) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, dgauci, Dec-13-03, 03:35 PM, (26) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, michaelgreenhill, Dec-14-03, 06:10 AM, (27) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, Boilerbuster, Dec-20-03, 11:31 PM, (30) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, adamw, Dec-27-03, 06:53 AM, (32) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, OTTODAD, Dec-27-03, 12:45 PM, (33) RE: MSTS-2005 ?, adamw, Dec-27-03, 04:10 PM, (34)

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IMHO I think that Trainz will take over the Train Simming Market, if MS Holds TS2 back that long.Heres hoping it doesnt take till 2005 for them to get it right...
Cheers
SAVVMSTS Fan ;o)http://trainman.ww.co.nz

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I really doubt it.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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>I really doubt it.
So do I. Bought TRS2004. Did not like it one little bit...but thats just me.

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>>I really doubt it.
> So do I. Bought TRS2004. Did not like it one little
>bit...but thats just me. Send it to me! I'm a poor simmer in need of TRS2004 :-P I only have 1.3 and UTC now

Danny - Pittsburgh

There's a light at the end of every tunnel, just pray it's not a train.
http://clanswl.mowshed.com/

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If we never see another MSTS, then it'll be MSTS v1 forever for me. Even with it's bugs (which really are relatively minor) MSTS is by far the best in my books. What the third party contributors have done for MSTS is simply unbelievable ... and keeps it forever fresh.

Ray

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I'm really doubting there is going to be another MSTS.

Sean Summer AKA Poltergeist
"The voices, the voices, I hear them, they're with me, so I follow I follow..." ~Eminem's "Guilty Conscious"

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You gotta have hope dude !

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If they do, that would be my reason for leaving the hobby.Have u seen the community sizes? Trainz is a toe nail in comparison, and if thats the way the trainsim market is going to go, it would put me off being part of it completely.Ive known for a while that it wont be till 2005. So my next thought was if MS would release another update for MSTS1 incorporating some of the stuff KUJU had done for their MSTS2 version.Surely they must realise they cant just leave MSTS1 untouched for 4 years befor bringing out a sequel.

vCTRL Developer
Simulating the UK's first High Speed Line to Central London

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>So my next
>thought was if MS would release another update for MSTS1
>incorporating some of the stuff KUJU had done for their
>MSTS2 version. But I don't think the locomotives in MSTS 2 would be backward compatible.

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You can understand why MS might delay the release until 2005 .... it makes sense: In 2005, the 64-Bit applications and processors will start to take over, and AMD may stop making 32-bit chips in 2005. Here is a quote to back up what I've said:"Recent research by Dataquest said 64-bit architecture will become more mainstream in 2005, when applications evolve to the point where they demand memory systems larger than the industry-wide 32-bit systems can process." (earthweb.com)Why bother making a 32-bit MSTS2 when it will be obsolete in less than a year? MSTS2 will be 64-Bit, just like FS2006 in 2005! Microsoft will force you to upgrade your current 32-bit systems so they can sell you a brand-new 64-Bit operating system! Windows XP has been around for a while now ....... and Music companies want to control piracy ... the next version of Windows/Longhorn will give them what they want!Now, let's get back to MSTS1, and maybe the engine modellers can get back to making engines for this current version, rather than stalling, vanely waiting for MSTS2?!

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-03 AT 08:15 AM (EST)

I think all of you got your finger correctly on the Microsoft MSTS Pulse alright and everything said here so far makes sense, especially looking at forthcoming Hardware developments and the effects they will have on all Software and Hardware required to run on 64 bit processors.An Interim Update to MSTS-1.1/1.2 ? Don't need it ! Our PAYWARE and FREEWARE ADD-ON creators can produce better any time, such as the forthcoming SURFLINER Route, to mention but one.I am happy with what I got so far and also that I won't have to learn everything I know about MSTS-1 all over again, trying to come to grips with a completely new version ! Bad enough trying to make ^*&-2004 do what I want it to do, knowing that I will not see a variable Tracks System like we got in MSTS, unless I spend a lot of time and effort Downloading 3rd party stuff and figuring out how to incorporate it into existing Routes or ones I might want to create myself ! My idea of good Software is that the average recipient can use it straight out of the box without having to do a lot of work modifying it, needing to learn a lot about how to do that !The other lot are aware of the chance this gives them to grab a bigger share of the Train Sim Market and are doing something about it as you will find out in the near future. Whether this will be good enough to compete with the next MSTS remains to be seen ! Keep the MSTS-1 GOODIES coming, guys and one day perhaps some really clever programmer will come up with a Conversion Utility to port good old KUJU Graphics technology into 2005 / 64-bit / DirectX-?? code ??? HAVE FUN, O t t o.Edit-P.S.: I think that the new AMD 64-bit processor, being 32-bit code compatible, can carry on running 32-bit code Software as well as 64-bit until all the Software vendors have updated their Programs to 64-bit code ? Whether LONGHORN will allow that remains to be seen, but should do until all the existing Software has been updated ! That alone will take years to achieve, looking at some of the more complicated 3-D Software on the market !

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So there may also be an opportunity for a new simulator to enter the marketplace....Especially one that can display existing MSTS1 models

Paul
UK GWR Highworth Branch
http://www.highworth.freeuk.com

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>Especially one that can display existing MSTS1 models But too bad you can't drive it!

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I too have heard a rumor, albeit from a bad source, that the next releases of both FS and TS will be 64-bit. The popularity of FS will push Flight Simmers to upgrade to the 64-bit systems which means more bucks for Intel/AMD and the miriad of system manufacturers and TS really needs the power to go much further than TS1. Richard

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Richard,also heard from a friend that he read a report in the Computing Media that the release of LONGHORN has been pushed back to 2006 !Without a 64 bit capable O/S no 64 bit Software will be able to run on such Computers. Thanks to AMD to make their 64 bit CPUs backward compatible with 32 bit Software and O/S ! Will be a long time for the Hardware and Software industry to catch up with 64 bit, after it has been proved to work as it should.And in any case, how many years will it be after it has been realeased before LONGHORN will be de-bugged good enough to provide a reliable and stable Software platform, looking back on many years in the history of M$ WINDOWS 16 and 32 bit first releases ! O t t o

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>And in any case, how many years will it be after it has been
>realeased before LONGHORN will be de-bugged good enough to
>provide a reliable and stable Software platform, looking
>back on many years in the history of M$ WINDOWS 16 and 32
>bit first releases ! That is assuming that Longhorn will be a purely 64bit platform, from a corporate desktop perspective, I doubt it. Our corporation is VERY slow adapting new hardware/software standards and our corporate IS support is outsourced to a major world known IT company.Microsoft does have a 64-bit Windows XP Professional, the 32bit version is the most stable OS Microsoft has ever released. Longhorn won't be their first 64bit OS release.

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Hi Ottodad, I've been lurking in this forum following the posts with interest and feeling this is a very frustrating time for all of us.Well, we waited 3 years for the last episode of Lord Of The Rings to arrive, so why not another year and a half for MSTS 2? At our age, each extra year is like a bonus drop of precious wine and we should enjoy it to the full. I also considered Trainz 2004 but feel MSTS1 is still more realistic. It's to be hoped that some smart programmers will reverse engineer MSTS so that it stands on its own like a vintage train set, relatively bug free and always enjoyable, while Microsoft start the cycle all over again with MSTS 2.If I take this attitude, then I won't be disappointed with further delays and anything else comes as a bonus.Keep posting, live long and prosper!Cytrain.

cytrain

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Hi CYTRAIN !I like your attitude and what you are saying ! Soon to be 75, having survived a recent Heart attack, I take every day as it comes, making sure that I enjoy every minute of it.And what could be better medicine than MSTS, it's challenges and sheer pleasure, driving along brilliant Routes with Rolling Stock I could never drive in real life.What ever the future has to offer MSTS wise, it can only get better ? CHEERS and long live MSTS and all of us !!! O t t o

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If MSTS 2 is pushed back that far than I would think it would be a good idea to try to come out with one more patch to fix the front coupler issue once and for all, operations window included. The question is will Microsoft ever consider doing this??? If they can at least fix this one issue, MSTS 1 will be that much better.Edward K.

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Here's a little wrench to throw into the MSTS 2 discussion. In my latest PC Gamer issue, on page 32,it reads: Microsoft Train Simulator 2 will be released 02/01/04. Of course this is seldom the case that a game is actully released at the date posted, but who gave PC Gamer the information? Was it Microsoft? This happened with the original version, only to be released several month's later.Wishfull thinking
Dejoh

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>If MSTS 2 is pushed back that far than I would think it
>would be a good idea to try to come out with one more patch
>to fix the front coupler issue once and for all, operations
>window included. The question is will Microsoft ever
>consider doing this??? If they can at least fix this one
>issue, MSTS 1 will be that much better. Kuju still thinks that the front coupler patch(V1.1) has fixed all issues with the front coupler.

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This is exactly why I am buying Trainz tommorrow...far better game then Ts1.... and this is coming from a long term TS'er..u get rid of the default Trainz equipment, and u have a SIMULATOR that runs better and way more stable then TS-1....

Brian E. Bundridge
Seattle, Wa
FoamersNW - Eight Ball

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Hey, Brian, where did your NALW tag go?Regards,
Dan Zollner - 3DTrains/Facing Point Media
http://www.3dtrains.com

Pro Series Geeps

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I don't think the announcement that the game will not now be out until May 2005 has anything to do with 64 bit systems; it's simply that the development time of most major software projects in the games sector is around two years and hence points to MS having binned what they had at the point they cancelled continued development with Kuju.Personally, I hope that this is the case, even if it does mean a lengthy delay until it's available to us. One of the major things that stood out of all the images of MSTS 2 shown was the sheer blandness of Kuju's game engine; alongside other contemporary games it looked severely out of date and I am sure MS can come up with something much better.Oh well, I guess we can only wait and see.

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-12-03 AT 06:46 PM (EST)

>This is exactly why I am buying Trainz tommorrow...
>
>far better game then Ts1.... and this is coming from a long
>term TS'er..u get rid of the default Trainz equipment, and u
>have a SIMULATOR that runs better and way more stable then
>TS-1.... You serious? I would guess thats why your NALW tag is gone now too...~The only way to ship~

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>This is exactly why I am buying Trainz tommorrow... Every time I get that funny urge I just run one of their current demo's. Shocks me back to reality every time, can't lower myself to Trainz having used MSTS and all of it's high quality add-ons for this long.

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The main reason I have migrated away from MSTS is the extremely lengthy downloads. I am relegated to dial-up and the only available ISP forecasts availability of Hi-Speed Internet is sometime before 2006.Like Ottodad I can only wonder if I will still be around to enjoy it.At least in Trainz I can get most downloads with dependancies in an hour or so.

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-13-03 AT 02:33 PM (EST)

If Microsoft is doing a full rewrite and I do mean if, do they know what we want in it? Is it possible that Microsoft will just rewrite the game engine itself and leave the content alone?Edward K.

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>Is it possible that Microsoft will just rewrite the game engine itself and leave the content alone? Highly unlikely.

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Who cares about the content - the TS community has more then enough skill to surpass anything that MS or KuJu or anyone else can come up with - do we need any more proof then the stuff available like the SVR add-on, etc etc?MS, give us the newly-coded sim and we'll build the content!

AE Train Construction Co.
http://aetc.uktrainsim.com/index.htm

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Good that will give me the time I need to buy and build my next Computer.Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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Otto,
In the meantime, I can strongly advice you to enhance MSTS 1.2 by purchasing the OUTSTANDING commercial add-ons available on the market with Pro Train 4 and Pro Train Tauernbahn especially.
It's worth every Euro you pay and the reality is much better than in Trainz 2004.Adam

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Thanks for the tip, Adam.Spending Christmas with my Son in Salt Lake City, I also downloaded the latest Routes from the File Library, using his BROADBAND connection and copied them to my 1 Gb Compact Flash disk to take home with me.Noticed good reports about PROTRAIN-4 and the TAUERN before and will get them in the New Year. Being Austrian the TAUERN in particular should be of interest and hope it's not going to be another "HEIDI" ! HAPPY NEW YEAR !O t t o

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All Pro train series are just excellent, not less, but very much demanding on your computing power, therefore be prepared for some jerky operation.
The graphics, the cab interiors and the amazing sounds bringing MSTS to the limits. Yes, those add ons are not a freeware, but you get enough joy for your money.
Driving the new Taurus or Baureihe 101 is a real pleasure, but I love OBB Class 1044 the most.
So, somewhere I'm really sorry for Kuju departing the MSTS 2 project, because I'm not so sure if Microsoft team will bring us something better, I really don't sure.Adam

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