Where did it go?

Anyone been to the Microsoft PC Games website lately?Train Simulator 2 is no longer on their "Upcoming Releases" list...
That can't be a good thing...I know MS is not one to release much info, but even before its release the FS2004 site had occasional updates. We've heard nothing on MSTS2 in a LOOOOOONG time, except that MS took it from Kuju. Then nothing more.This is most discouraging. I hope this doesn't mean what i think it means, but i fear it might... I know we're all wanting MS to take their time and "get it right" on the next go-around, but REMOVING it from their upcoming releases entirely??------ BUZZ ------

-- Power For You --

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RE: Where did it go??, LocoRo, Nov-20-03, 11:31 AM, (1) RE: Where did it go??, OTTODAD, Nov-20-03, 03:00 PM, (2) RE: Where did it go??, dgauci, Nov-21-03, 10:53 AM, (6) RE: Where did it go??, buzzbenz, Nov-21-03, 05:33 PM, (20) RE: Where did it go??, TrainFreak, Nov-23-03, 02:35 PM, (27) RE: Where did it go??, heffed, Nov-23-03, 05:24 PM, (28) RE: Where did it go??, Coonskin, Nov-21-03, 10:39 AM, (5) RE: Where did it go??, dgauci, Nov-21-03, 11:02 AM, (7) RE: Where did it go??, OTTODAD, Nov-21-03, 11:05 AM, (8) RE: Where did it go??, ctillier, Nov-21-03, 01:34 PM, (11) RE: Where did it go??, Coonskin, Nov-21-03, 02:46 PM, (14) RE: Where did it go??, Stooopid_person, Nov-22-03, 00:45 AM, (23) RE: Where did it go??, OTTODAD, Nov-23-03, 07:23 AM, (25) RE: Where did it go??, Stooopid_person, Nov-23-03, 08:54 AM, (26) RE: Where did it go??, Bill Hobbs, Nov-21-03, 01:37 PM, (12) RE: Where did it go??, ctillier, Nov-21-03, 01:47 PM, (13) RE: Where did it go??, OTTODAD, Nov-21-03, 09:37 PM, (21) RE: Where did it go??, brucek, Nov-28-03, 05:55 PM, (29) RE: Where did it go??, OTTODAD, Nov-29-03, 10:17 AM, (30) RE: Where did it go??, roco, Nov-21-03, 12:04 PM, (9) RE: Where did it go??, gmu30, Nov-21-03, 12:08 PM, (10) RE: Where did it go??, vhm3, Nov-21-03, 03:27 PM, (17) RE: Where did it go??, BNSF4723, Nov-21-03, 09:47 PM, (22) RE: Where did it go??, FredNovy, Nov-22-03, 10:09 PM, (24) RE: Where did it go??, Nexus, Nov-29-03, 01:51 PM, (31) RE: Where did it go??, OTTODAD, Nov-29-03, 03:56 PM, (32) RE: Where did it go??, driver89, Nov-29-03, 04:05 PM, (33) RE: Where did it go??, KILLER128 WG, Dec-03-03, 11:02 AM, (34) RE: Where did it go??, chucksc, Dec-03-03, 01:07 PM, (35) RE: Where did it go??, OTTODAD, Dec-03-03, 04:59 PM, (36) RE: Where did it go??, KILLER128 WG, Dec-03-03, 05:07 PM, (37) RE: Where did it go??, chucksc, Dec-03-03, 05:55 PM, (38) RE: Where did it go??, KILLER128 WG, Dec-03-03, 10:06 PM, (39) RE: Where did it go??, chucksc, Dec-03-03, 10:50 PM, (40) RE: Where did it go??, Boilerbuster, Dec-04-03, 06:22 AM, (41) RE: Where did it go??, KILLER128 WG, Dec-04-03, 09:37 AM, (42) RE: Where did it go??, dgauci, Dec-04-03, 10:13 AM, (43) RE: Where did it go??, KILLER128 WG, Dec-04-03, 11:06 AM, (44) RE: Where did it go??, OTTODAD, Dec-04-03, 04:51 PM, (45) RE: Where did it go??, dgauci, Dec-04-03, 08:21 PM, (46) RE: Where did it go??, KILLER128 WG, Dec-04-03, 11:33 PM, (47) RE: Where did it go??, OTTODAD, Dec-05-03, 06:54 AM, (48) RE: Where did it go??, dgauci, Dec-05-03, 03:07 PM, (49) RE: Where did it go??, OTTODAD, Dec-05-03, 04:25 PM, (50) RE: Where did it go??, KILLER128 WG, Dec-05-03, 04:38 PM, (51) RE: Where did it go??, CajunRon, Dec-06-03, 07:43 AM, (52) RE: Where did it go??, dgauci, Dec-06-03, 10:54 AM, (53) RE: Where did it go??, deejay1020, Dec-06-03, 10:42 PM, (56) RE: Where did it go??, NCC1701E, Dec-06-03, 08:23 PM, (54) RE: Where did it go??, Poltergeist, Dec-06-03, 09:49 PM, (55) RE: Where did it go??, chucksc, Dec-06-03, 11:58 PM, (57) RE: Where did it go??, OTTODAD, Dec-07-03, 09:31 AM, (58) RE: Where did it go??, deejay1020, Dec-07-03, 11:22 AM, (59) RE: Where did it go??, OTTODAD, Dec-07-03, 01:12 PM, (60)

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Lets demonstrate ! Greetings Roland
Netherlands

fan of Christrains©
www.christrains.com

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That might not be such a bad idea, Roland !Let's bombard MICROSOFT with correspondence, addressing their highest levels, including his mightiness Bill Gates ! I shall try to stir it up a bit in the U.K. Computing Media, "Letters to the Editor" and similar ! Why are there no questions asked by any of the Gaming Magazines ?I think that Microsoft got completely wrong footed by KUJU dropping MSTS into their lap and now they can't make up their mind about what to do next ? If they would know, surely they would have dropped a hint by now to keep interest in MSTS alive and stop users from migrating to other Train Sims ? O t t o

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>Let's bombard MICROSOFT with correspondence, addressing
>their highest levels, including his mightiness Bill Gates !
> I imagine that will have about the same impact as stamping your feet and demanding that the Sun shine on a rainy day. It may make you feel better venting some frustration, but it won't have any actual effect.MSTS-2 being pulled from the upcoming release list, doesn't have to mean anything. If MS is changing or re-coding MSTS2 then from their perspective it isn't ready for an upcoming release, especially if there will be any kind of delay because of the changes. It will be announced again when it is ready. I would rather they take their time and do it right, not rush out a half-baked product. They aren't going to make early product announcements if the schedules are prone to slip, they get equally blasted when that happens too, like now. It's a no-win situation from their perspective. In the early days of PC's the first portable computer, the Osborne I went out of business by pre-announcing the sequel too early. People stopped buying the original in anticipation, delays developed, and the company went under due to a lack of sales of the original before they could perfect the new ones. The dangers of vaporware.

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True, true... I have no problem with waiting - i just don't want to see it cancelled! MSTS1 only has so long left to it, simply because we're hitting the limits of what it can do. I think we've fooled, tricked, jimmied, and pried almost everything we can out of it. Great new content is and will still be developed. But like on the F40 for instance - i'd LOVE to do an overhaul on it and add in the details i had to leave off. I now know how i can add them in, but i also know the result: i only get to use ONE in an activity on the routes i want to run it on. Meaning all my AI trains, static trains, EVERYTHING will have to use the same one if i do that. Otherwise, MSTS will crash. To date, i am unaware of a cure for that. So, while i will modify it into the different "flavors" of F40s, thus adding more content to the sim, i won't actually be IMPROVING it, which is what i want to do.Well, ok, it WILL have SOME improvements, but nothing like what i want to do... That's the number 1 reason why i don't want MSTS2 to fall by the wayside. I want to be able to create an activity, use any equipment i desire for my trains, AI trains, and static trains, on any route i choose, and not have to be greeted by Mr. "Send/Don't Send" (and believe me - i am now in the habit of sending them every last one! LOL!). If i have to wait, so be it. Just as long as it still does get here in the end, AND work a little better.Well, that, AND i want to have doors that open at all stations and are not tied to pantograph animation, which i hope we'll get. Isn't that why everyone wants MSTS2??? ------ BUZZ ------

-- Power For You --

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Here's what I'd like:-Being able to switch directions at the end of the line (ie switch to the other end of a double-ended loco and driving it around the train, or switch to the opposite end of a railcar etc.)-Being able to mix electrified and non-electrified track in the same route (e.g. having an electrified mainline with an unelectrified branch)-Displaying structures like bridges, tunnels etc in the activity editor (making it a lot easier to e.g. set restricted speed sections (for example simulating a temporary speed restriction across a bridge due to maintenance work)-Displaying a 'moving map' while you drive that shows the location of both your train and AI trains (yeah, I know, not prototypical at all, but still would be nice)-Abitily to have e.g. an engine break down while you drive (could make for interesting activities - for example an engine breaks down shortly after you start out from Shelby, meaning you won't be able to make it over Marias without picking up an extra engine underway).

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-03 AT 05:30 PM (EST)

>I think that Microsoft got completely wrong footed by KUJU
>dropping MSTS into their lap and now they can't make up
>their mind about what to do next ? Maybe it's just me, but I've always kind of had the impression that the decision wasn't really KUJUs. Look at it from KUJUs viewpoint, does this decision really make much sense for them? What else really do they have in the fire? They've already put quite a bit of time and effort at the project, so them bailing out at this point in development just doesn't make sense. I'm sure they will have to fork out much more money for the failed contract than they would to just complete the project. Not to mention that backing out ensures they never work for M$ in the future. It's pretty much a suicide move for a software developer. If you can't produce for such a high profile corporation as M$, it doesn't make you look very attractive to anyone else either.I don't have very high regards for the intelligence at KUJU, but I can't imagine that even they would do something so stupid. Unless they're getting out of the software game altogether.>If they would know,
>surely they would have dropped a hint by now to keep
>interest in MSTS alive and stop users from migrating to
>other Train Sims ? I think M$ could really care less. Sure MSTS sold a few copies, but in the M$ world, it's small potatos. Sorry to take the cynical view, but I really don't think MSTS2 is much of a priority for them.-Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-03 AT 10:41 AM (EST)

Definitely causes some feelings of uncertainity in regards to MSTS2.However, I'm going to venture an opinion here...IMHO, the state of the art with MSTS 1 has risen to the point that it could almost be considered that MSTS 2 has/is already being developed and delivered by 3rd party add-on developers and tinkerers. To wit:* A workaround for the switch node problem is now common. * We can now solve almost any tdb problem.* XTracks and other track/road add-ons have revolutionized freeware track and road work.* The front coupler has become dependable once you understand its quirks and respect that.* Fantastic new engines w/custom sounds and cabviews are out and more being developed. These are so superior to default there's no comparison.* Rolling stock variety and quality that is simply overwhelming. * TRUE narrow gauge potential, complete with steamers that operate reasonably accurately thanks to the tweakers.* The physics have been tweaked to the point that it is a thousand times better than default.* Scenery objects and forests now look very real using the newer "photo texture" approach.* A super payware base resulting in excellent quality, great value, "point/click" modeling for the MSTS enthusiast. They do all the work, the enthusiast gets to do all the playing. PLUS, more ground breaking items are on the way: Have you seen "Scale Rail" to name one? Tried running some of the latest routes by MLT or Rich Garber? Have you seen what is headed our way soon? (Such as Surfliner, Cal-P, Donner Pass, etc?)As long as the MSTS enthusiast is willing to simply install the default package then go get add-ons and leave the default behind... MSTS is in the best shape it's ever been... and future products that I know of that are being developed are even better! So, I'm not pining for MSTS2 or searching for another "simulator"... I'm very happy with the way things are progressing with this current version. If/when MSTS2 comes out, it will have its work cut out for it if it is to better what I'm already enjoying in MSTS1. Andre Ming

Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!

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Here, Here!!!Every new add-on means a new and improved MSTS experience. I like what I have already, it's only getting better everyday by leaps and bounds.

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Andre,wouldn't it be great if Microsoft could just invent a new and better Graphics Engine capable of using the current Graphics Format to make Backwards Compatibility possible.Would be a shame to lose all you listed, achieved and created by some very clever and talented Developers and the Community as a whole. Only trouble is that the ACE format belongs to KUJU for use by their program developers and in any case is no longer up to the job as far as DIRECTX-9 and the latest Graphics Cards are concerned.Microsoft is making little money out of MSTS with all these guys giving away better stuff for FREE and got to come up with something NEW and EXCITING to persuade them to re-create all their work all over again !!! O t t o

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Otto,The ACE format for textures is not an obstacle. It is a well understood format and could easily be converted into whatever other format ends up being used, thus sidestepping any performance and/or intellectual property issues.cheers

--
Clem

http://www.tillier.net/speedworks/index.html

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Hi O t t o:Indeed, I respect your opinions and investigations into the intriguing complexities of MSTS.Hopefully, there will be an MSTS 2 to enjoy someday. An MSTS 2 that is far above what we currently have even via the third party people. However, until then, I will enjoy the continual improvements that happens with almost each new freeware/payware product.IMHO, MSTS 2 has been delayed because it simply was not far enough above what is currently available in MSTS to warrant continuance with the current project. Right now there's some excitement on the TS2004 front that MS may be watching, to say nothing of the way the third party vendors/creators have spanked KUJU royally in what COULD have been done with MSTS 1 even with the existing tools. Why bring a product to market that's already marginal when we have all this great stuff available in MSTS 1, as well as TS2004? I think they're smart to quietly pull the "Coming Soon!" announcements out of circultaion, roll up their sleeves, and get to work.However, if they don't hurry, the third party vendors/creators will have MSTS 1 that much further along!!Andre Ming

Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations
Keeping CHRIST in my CHRISTmas!

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>Only trouble is that the ACE format belongs to KUJU for use
>by their program developers and in any case is no longer up
>to the job as far as DIRECTX-9 and the latest Graphics Cards
>are concerned. They could always use bitmaps, like FS2000(not sure about other versions)! And that would make it much easier to reskin as well.

-----You are reading my signature now, don't waste your time reading it!-----
Or probably, maybe you should waste your time reading it.
Eh, where did my signature go?
Oh, here it is, the one you are reading right now? Can't you see it? I know I know, it's probably too bright to see it.
Hey, look at my avatar, nice right? I drew it with my own hands holding the mouse in Paint, with the pencil tool(and the Filling tool!)!
It's a picture of me in Planet Stooopid, where everything is the same as what you call "Earth" except that we are called "aliens" in your planet.
Anyway, I warned you not waste time reading my signature! You have just wasted probably about 30 seconds reading it, where you could have spent the time doing better things, like maybe reading the next post below if there is one...

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-03 AT 07:42 AM (EST)

Yes Phil, FS-2004 still uses them.Just installed the fantastic LA-San Diego MEGASCENERY, almost 40000 Bitmaps. There are two more versions on the way to fill my 120 Gb hard drive ! Could well be that this is what we might get with MSTS-2 ? Apologies for speculating again but would bet on them and GMAX ! Take Care, O t t o.Edit-P.S.: Funny, I just posted message# 25 and the page 1 list says that the thread contains only 19 and no View All ? Looks like the Thread has lost some messages counting them visually !

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>Edit-P.S.: Funny, I just posted message# 25 and the
>page 1 list says that the thread contains only 19 and no
>View All ? Looks like the Thread has lost some
>messages counting them visually ! Some of them have been deleted. No post 3 and 4.

-----You are reading my signature now, don't waste your time reading it!-----
Or probably, maybe you should waste your time reading it.
Eh, where did my signature go?
Oh, here it is, the one you are reading right now? Can't you see it? I know I know, it's probably too bright to see it.
Hey, look at my avatar, nice right? I drew it with my own hands holding the mouse in Paint, with the pencil tool(and the Filling tool!)!
It's a picture of me in Planet Stooopid, where everything is the same as what you call "Earth" except that we are called "aliens" in your planet.
Anyway, I warned you not waste time reading my signature! You have just wasted probably about 30 seconds reading it, where you could have spent the time doing better things, like maybe reading the next post below if there is one...

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I am in agreement with Andre. I was not at all impressed with the "out of the box" TrainSim. He encouraged me to try some of the items from the library and soon I began "tweaking" steam locomotive sounds and variables in the same I work on models. But what really changed my opinion was the discovery of add-on routes that didn't require extensive use of the activity editor to set up a local freight operation.
Yes, I would "like" reliable front couplers, 3D cabviews, flickering firebox and faster frame rates (dream on) but the absence of these does not prevent me from enjoying what I have.

Bill Hobbs

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Excellent post Andre.My reading of the tea leaves is that MS is falling back to recoding the whole underlying game engine, scene graph and physics included. This also includes making the import of 3rd party content (routes, trains, activities, etc) much easier.They have probably understood that the key development for the next version is the simulation framework, and not the railroad content.The content can be licensed/subcontracted to whichever payware vendor for bundling into the new game. Much like MSTS1, the user base and 3rd party vendors will carry the content to new levels of realism and regional focus, for several years after the game comes out. I'm in no hurry to see MSTS2 until it's done right.cheers

--
Clem

http://www.tillier.net/speedworks/index.html

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-03 AT 09:41 PM (EST)

Thanks Andre and Clem !I think I can wait a bit, but being 74 I hope M$ don't keep me and you guys hanging around much longer ! O t t o

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Quote:- IMHO, the state of the art with MSTS 1 has risen to the point that it could almost be considered that MSTS 2 has/is already being developed.......An extremely astute observation, André, and one with which I completely agree.The MSTS routes, sounds, locomotives and 'stock which I run today bear little resemblance to that which I was using two years ago.This is true even to the extent that the Default Six are now on CD and form no part of my Route folder unless a new third-party route requires them for installation.Therefore, if there is ever a new version of Train Simulator then well and good but if not, then as long as third-party content keeps appearing, I'll continue to be a satisfied user of MSTS v1.Regards,
Bruce.

AustRail

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Fully agree with everything you said, Bruce !But you forgot to mention XTracks, getting better all the time, thanks OKRASA, also others like the Surfliner Finescale Tracks, which to me are the "Cherries on top ot the Train Sims Cake", being a Tracks Fan ! MSTS-2 will really have to come up with something earth shattering before I abandon MSTS-1 and all the work I have done with it for my own benefit !!! Take Care, O t t o.

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maan.... thats sad
really sad!
well lets hope for some good news!

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-03 AT 12:16 PM (EST)

Hi All
I AM AFFRAID TO MSTS 2 FUTURE...BECAUSE .......................
...............thanksTHE GMU-30

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Well, ya never really know. I've seen MS do this with other products as well. Once dropped off the list, they're usually gone for good.Who knows, though. Maybe there'll be a few more typo changes to the manual, a new loco and some cars .... poof! a new version!And there will be much rejoycing.

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I'm gonna go with dgauci on this one, I think they just took it off the upcoming list because they've probably got another batch of games coming up which will be ready much before MSTS2 coding is done. Its coming, we just have to wait.... some more.~The only way to ship~

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Well the web site is still around at
http://www.microsoft.com/games/pc/trainsim2.aspx
Ya gotta have hope!

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And what is TBA in release date?

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"TO BE ANNOUNCED", Nexus !In other words, your guess is as good as mine ! O t t o

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>"TO BE ANNOUNCED", Nexus !
>
>In other words, your guess is as good as mine !
>
>O t t o
Is that a polite way of saying, "when hell freezes over?".
James.

"Well, you know boys, a nuclear reactor is a lot like a women. You just have to read the manual and press the right buttons." Homer Simpson

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Maybe the recently released version of the other two sims played a role on it. Like RT3 and the other one from that Australian company Trainz RailRoad Simulator 2004.Although it is true that MSTS1 was great upon released, it is not less true that compared to the above mentioned programs the new MSTS2 would have had some trouble to be compared with them at least with the listed features for MSTS2.I've been reading on that Auran train sim and some of the so called new features for MSTS2 has been part of their sim since day one!Don't get me wrong I own MSTS1 and some great Addons pack for it, but it just not quite cut it anymore for me. It only shined on the activity side of it compared to that one of the other company but their new version now has those. So I might be changing to that at least until they figure out what to do with MSTS2.As some other said here, Kujus droping out is extremely rare. As he/they just dropped out MSTS2 two moths from its planned release date. To me something else must have happened, like maybe another "special request" from MS to add some extra features.The truth is out there but knowing MS it won't be easy to find and surely Kuju can't talk about it.
cheers!

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-03 AT 01:08 PM (EST)

Oh I don't know about that!
Let's guess shall we?FWIW, I speculate that just maybe they were fired!What do you think?Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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> FWIW, I speculate that just maybe they were fired! Could well be, Chuck !But having been a Manager of people for many years in my working life, I never fired a key person or team without making sure I had replacements standing by !

Can't see M$ not having contingency arrangements in place ready to carry on !O t t o

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>Could well be, Chuck !
>
>But having been a Manager of people for many years in my
>working life, I never fired a key person or team without
>making sure I had replacements standing by !
>
>Can't see M$ not having contingency arrangements in place
>ready to carry on !
>
>O t t o And then there is the whole fact that it happen only 2 months or so before the schedule release date. That makes it really odd to kill your own project or to even realize that it was not feasible.cheers

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>
>>Could well be, Chuck !
>>
>>But having been a Manager of people for many years in my
>>working life, I never fired a key person or team without
>>making sure I had replacements standing by !
>>
>>Can't see M$ not having contingency arrangements in place
>>ready to carry on !
>>
>>O t t o
>
>And then there is the whole fact that it happen only 2
>months or so before the schedule release date. That makes
>it really odd to kill your own project or to even realize
>that it was not feasible.
>
>cheers I don't KNOW anything but if I had to speculate;Unless of course you get to the final review after giving months of "corrective input and guidance", tons of defect correction/mandatory remedy letters/meetings/legal "cure" notices, negative reviews/progress reports by internal staff, no chance of hitting the target dates and you still do not have a workable, stable product that meets the contracted specifications. Sometimes for business reasons you just have to hit the eject key whether or not you want to emotionally! The key would be whether or not Microsoft picks it up in house and bites the bullet and recodes it to their standards....
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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>The key would be whether or not Microsoft picks it up in
>house and bites the bullet and recodes it to their
>standards....
>
>
>Chuck Schneider
>(Virtual) CEO
>North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works
> To their standards? Mo offense but in some cases that phrase and MS brings a cold feeling on my spine!
cheers!

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Guess you've never done flight simulator, eh?And if their standards were so bad 75% of the world would use something other than MS products....
Remember lots of people tried to knock them off. Some like IBM with just as much or more money to throw around....
All have failed....They do something right!Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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I agree Chuck. Flightsim was the best Sim and still is to have ever hit the market. FS2004 is a dream to have thought I would rather have Satalite photo Scenery, the advances that it has made over the orignal is astounding. If MSTS2 will be the sole property of MS then it will be harder for devolopers to out do MS in the train department.
In FS2004 Microsoft has set the bar way up for 3rd party developers in that the oringnal planes are great and a working Virtural Cockpit is hard to render
it surly has weeded out the Great Developers from the average developers. about the only Freewear developers that keep with microsofts abilities there is Project Opensky.Don Pottorff
Long Live the Steam
www.vmf323.com
www.fiero.nl

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>Guess you've never done flight simulator, eh?
>
>And if their standards were so bad 75% of the world would
>use something other than MS products....
>Remember lots of people tried to knock them off. Some like
>IBM with just as much or more money to throw around....
>All have failed....
>
>They do something right!
>
>Chuck Schneider
>(Virtual) CEO
>North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works True but faling to prove something and not saying the truth is something different.And I do agree with you that MSFS2004 is great at least for plane realism but the scenery aspect still needs some work. If MS would have developped the TS as FS then the history will be something else.As it is they have (IMHO) left the fans of trains lovers slip from their fingertips. They were loosing terrain already to this rather new on the field company, and now the gap is bound to get bigger.One of the main things (as there are some others) that this other company sim offered since the first version was an easy to use route builder. That attracted even the more experienced MSTS guys. But I have to admint it lacked the thrill of activites offered solely by MSTS, now the new version has it and the fight is on!I will love to see the new version of MSTS, the last communication I had as a realease for next spring (that was after Kuju), but now it has seem to have dissapear from their site completely. This is not the first time that MS has remove content from their site, although is the first time on the Microsoft games studios site.I was really waiting for both the MS sim and the Auran sim as both have proven to be quite good at what they do. Each one with its own strenght and flaws.Let's just hope the MSTS2 does make a comeback.cheers

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>Let's just hope the MSTS2 does make a comeback. MSTS + Pacific Surfliner 1.0 = MSTS2 for me. This combination already surpasses what the other company currently has to offer. It's not MSTS that needs to play catch up now!!

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>
>>Let's just hope the MSTS2 does make a comeback.
>
>MSTS + Pacific Surfliner 1.0 = MSTS2 for me. This
>combination already surpasses what the other company
>currently has to offer. It's not MSTS that needs to play
>catch up now!! Graphics wise MSTS1 is a no go! and what is Pacific Surfliner 1.0?
cheers

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Sam,SURFLINER ? Check it out here: http://www.facingpoint.com/whatsnew.htmO t t o

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>Graphics wise MSTS1 is a no go! and what is Pacific
>Surfliner 1.0? Graphics wise MSTS1 running the Pacific Surfliner 1.0 is untouchable.

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Can you give and url for it. I have search the net for it and can't find any reference other that some amtrak pictures and documents and schedules.

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-03 AT 06:55 AM (EST)

I am not going to lose my temper ! If you have not used the URL I supplied in my earlier reply, here it is again:http://www.facingpoint.com/whatsnew.htmClick on 10/29/2003 Fabulous New Screenshots to start with. There is lots more to see ! O t t o

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>I am not going to lose my temper !
>
>If you have not used the URL I supplied in my earlier reply,
>here it is again:
>
>http://www.facingpoint.com/whatsnew.htm Otto, that's why I didn't bother responding either, none so blind as those who refuse to see.

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Some guys do test your patience, don't they Dennis !I can see why Kev is going off the deep end occasionally. He's had too much of it !!! Take Care, O t t o.

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Thanks guys.That sure looks great!I might try it!cheers

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-03 AT 07:49 AM (EST)

dguaci and Ottodad,Actually, I'm more amazed at the lack of patience that some people have for the occasional, unintentional less enlightened. I myself have occasional brain farts every once in a while...I bet you do too

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>dguaci and Ottodad,
>
>Actually, I'm more amazed at the lack of patience that some
>people have for the occasional, unintentional less
>enlightened. I myself have occasional brain farts every
>once in a while...I bet you do too Actually I have a considerable amount of patience for end users. What I get tired of is answering questions, then having those answers ignored then re-asked again. This has been happening enough lately, that I'm losing patience for it.

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Woohoo, tell me about it. I KNOW how you feel. And thanks for the comps on the Surfliner Dennis. Makes me want to get right back to finishing off my part so you can have a completed product!Regards,
Dan Zollner - 3DTrains/Facing Point Media
http://www.3dtrains.com

Pro Series Geeps

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perhaps it is vapor ware? I dont know just a faint thought.Stephen White

Oh and have a nice day.

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>perhaps it is vapor ware? I dont know just a faint thought. I was thinking that too. I wouldn't hold my breath for an MSTS 2.

Sean Summer AKA Poltergeist
"The voices, the voices, I hear them, they're with me, so I follow I follow..." ~Eminem's "Guilty Conscious"

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Not knowing anything, but just a thought....If Kuju really did get fired and Microsoft brought MSTS2 back in house and decided to recode it to their standards do ya think that just might be what's going on? Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Yes, I think that's what is happening too, Chuck ! Microsoft have less popular games in their portfolio they keep bringing new versions out for, to carry on milking their existing users.MSTS is not exactly "Small Fry" and providing they can improve it to at least FS-2004 standards, it should add a few more Millions of $$$ into their cash coffers. But starting from scratch and applying new technology, which is what I think they will be doing, is going to take a while, if their coders are not too busy with more important tasks ! In the meantime, I am looking forward to the SURFLINER and other MSTS-1 "Goodies" from 3D-Trains, enjoying the efforts of Paul Gausden, Mike Simpson, Derek Morton and others, doing their best to keep us busy !!! Take Care, O t t o.

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I'm rather excited about getting the Surfliner done and out the door so we can get the Interstate done. I'm really looking forward to that one. Should be a lot of fun.Regards,
Dan Zollner - 3DTrains/Facing Point Media
http://www.3dtrains.com

Pro Series Geeps

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Stop dangling carrots in front of my watering mouth, Dan ! You know I already had one heart attack ! All this excitement only gets my Blood Pressure elevated. Take Care and WORK HARD !!! O t t o

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