MSTS-2004 Vs Trainz RS-2400

The release of the next version of MSTS being planned for somewhere mid-2004, as mentioned by MS themselves and looking at what the Competition's TZ RS-2400 is going to offer - http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/default.htm , I would suggest that the Microsoft's MSTS Programmers will have an uphill struggle on their hands converting the ancient MSTS KUJU proprietary Graphics Technology and the way MSTS works in general to better than TZ RS-2400 !There is no way we can expect the new MSTS resembling much of the old and get the benefit of DirectX-9 and the latest from ATI and nVIDIA at the same time.It will be a long wait and hope that MICROSOFT will be sensible enough to give us further hints of what we can expect and when or there will be a mass emigration over to the other side !O t t o

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RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, kevarc, Sep-18-03, 09:08 AM, (1) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, georgi55_activated, Sep-18-03, 04:00 PM, (2) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, Tony_Hilliam, Sep-19-03, 08:40 AM, (5) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, kevarc, Sep-19-03, 09:13 AM, (6) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, seern, Sep-20-03, 00:08 AM, (8) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, kevarc, Sep-20-03, 04:23 PM, (10) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, kevarc, Sep-21-03, 09:58 PM, (19) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, CPR_Malice_96th, Oct-23-03, 09:33 AM, (41) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, CGW409, Sep-20-03, 01:13 PM, (9) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, towncar59, Sep-21-03, 06:47 AM, (11) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, CGW409, Sep-21-03, 12:12 PM, (12) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, towncar59, Sep-21-03, 03:47 PM, (13) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, CGW409, Sep-22-03, 07:29 PM, (20) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, towncar59, Sep-23-03, 05:11 AM, (22) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, happyj, Sep-23-03, 04:44 AM, (21) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, towncar59, Sep-23-03, 05:16 AM, (23) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, georgi55_activated, Sep-18-03, 04:01 PM, (3) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, OTTODAD, Sep-19-03, 05:53 AM, (4) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, tcain1, Sep-21-03, 07:43 PM, (14) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, georgi55_activated, Sep-21-03, 07:52 PM, (15) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, tcain1, Sep-21-03, 08:52 PM, (16) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, OTTODAD, Sep-21-03, 09:26 PM, (17) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, Mark1616, Oct-13-03, 11:24 AM, (31) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, heffed, Sep-19-03, 07:08 PM, (7) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, cn_bayview, Sep-21-03, 09:56 PM, (18) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, gmu30, Oct-10-03, 01:59 PM, (24) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, georgi55_activated, Oct-10-03, 05:27 PM, (25) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, OTTODAD, Oct-11-03, 03:36 PM, (26) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, Stooopid_person, Oct-12-03, 00:39 AM, (27) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, Tim Frost, Oct-12-03, 08:22 AM, (28) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, Stooopid_person, Oct-13-03, 04:45 AM, (30) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, dgauci, Oct-12-03, 10:05 AM, (29) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, LawrenceKellie, Oct-21-03, 04:00 PM, (32) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, NCC1701E, Oct-21-03, 09:21 PM, (33) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, BNSF4723, Oct-22-03, 00:59 AM, (34) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, georgi55_activated, Oct-22-03, 08:28 AM, (35) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, BNSF4723, Oct-22-03, 06:03 PM, (36) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, georgi55_activated, Oct-22-03, 06:33 PM, (37) RE: MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, BNSF4723, Oct-22-03, 07:43 PM, (38) RE%3A MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, axe1970, Oct-23-03, 08:48 AM, (39) RE: RE%3A MSTS-2004 vs TRAINZ RS-2400, axe1970, Oct-23-03, 08:50 AM, (40)

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No, I don't think so. I have little or no interest in Trainz. Activity\Senario development still needs programming. You also can only have 5 AI trains. All the animations appear "cute" but make it more of a game verses a sim.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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>No, I don't think so. I have little or no interest in
>Trainz. Activity\Senario development still needs
>programming.Not true, you can make your own activity by right clicking on train in game.>You also can only have 5 AI trains.Please tell me where you got that from?All the
>animations appear "cute" but make it more of a game verses a
>sim. No, it makes it more of railroad sim verses train sim.

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Hi Kev. I have an offer for you. It's kinda late in the development cycle, but I'd be interested if you would like to join the beta testing group for TRS2004. I know you haven't always seen eye to eye with Trainz fans, but we love to get reasonable, critical comments about how we're doing in improving the areas of Trainz that are lacking. If you're interested, just drop a line to helpdesk@auran.com and copy this text in there as well.Btw, you can give orders simultaneously to 7 AI drivers whilst manually driving as many other locos as you like. You can also move drivers from one loco to another as often as you like and using our flexible Rules system, you can create endless hours of railroad activities without a line of coding.Moderators, please fell free to lock or move this thread to the general forum where it is better suited.RegardsTony Hilliam
Auran COO

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You have mail.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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I will be waiting to see what Kevin has to say if he takes Tony up on his offer. It will be good to see comments from a "died in the wool" MSTS fan about the compitition. I have looked at the ads and web site at Auran and may just give TRS2004 a try when its released. I especially want to see how its AE works, since writting activities is my main interest.

Sharon Evans
Glen Allen, Virginia
Activities are what makes MSTS run.

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That's Ok, I'm still waiting for a reply to my email.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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Still waiting Sharon. Guess he wasn't that serious about it.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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>Still waiting Sharon. Guess he wasn't that serious about
>it. LOL,Don't turn to the blurry train graphic darkside !!LaterThe ONLY thing I like ( appreciate ) Trainz for is that there customer support and contact with the end users ( US ... No wait US would include ME )There customer support level with YOU is quite good.Tim Kent
96th_Malice
" Power for You "

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Tony
A friend and myself got to check out the new product at the RCHTA show here in Chicago last Sunday and I've already hinted to the wife that a larger harddrive for my system might be a good Bday gift,we were both impressed with it(although Uncle Bill had no one there to fly the MSTS flag for comparison)and thought MS could probably take a few lessons from you guys in the RE department.
To be honest the original Trainz really didn't grab me so I didn't bother with it suffice to say however there will be plenty of space on the new drive for both TRS as well as MSTS 1 & 2.
BTW I know it's late in the process but the only minor fault I found with TRS was the lack of a head out the cab view.Gary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-03 AT 07:06 AM (EDT)

>BTW I know it's late in the process but the only minor fault I found with TRS was the lack of a head out the cab view.<In the current version of Trainz, I have several loco's with head out the cab view. Justs like in MSTS, it isn't a view that's included in the default loco's, but it was developed by 3rd party creators. It'll probably be the same with TRS-2004...I have MSTS since the moment it hit the shelves and built several routes ( didn't release them to the public because i didn't think there would be much interest in the type of routes I made..)
When Trainz was released I downloaded the demo and wasn't really impressed, I was used to the MSTS interface and Trainz had a strange feeling for me. I deleted it and struggled on with the MSTS route editor.
Recently I downloaded the demo of the improved version of Trainz (UTC) and became quite impressed with it. After exploring it for a few hours I noticed that all my prejudices for Trainz vanished. I bought Trainz and I now I say " It's worth every cent."
MSTS is still on my hard drive and I still use it. But at this time Trainz is my favorite. I am not bashing MSTS, in some areas I prefer MSTS, but after working with Surveyor ( Trainz's route editor ) there is no more route building in MSTS for me. Activities in Trainz still is an unopened book to me, but from what I have heard, it will be very simple to make an activity in TRS-2004. That's something I still have to see for myself, I made quite a lot of activities for my routes in MSTS and when TRS-2004 is available I will see if it will be as addictive as the rest of the program...
Oh...I will buy MSTS2 when it is released, I will also buy TRS-2004.
I am just trying to say...don't be negative to a product when you haven't seen and used it to the full extend.

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Towncar"I am just trying to say...don't be negative to a product when you haven't seen and used it to the full extend."AIIEEEE!! RISE UP AND DESTROY THE HERITIC!!!! ok now that I've got the obligitory shot in the MSTS/Trainz holy war in Actually in my case there were just a few things with the original Trainz that caused MSTS to win out(plus having limited HD space)but I'm not into the whole MSTS,good/Trainz,evil debate(kind of always thought that a bit silly)at this point I'm heavily invested in MSTS so I don't want to back track but TRS04 is a definate buy for meGary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-03 AT 03:47 PM (EDT)

<AIIEEEE!! RISE UP AND DESTROY THE HERITIC!!!! ok now that I've got the obligitory shot in the MSTS/Trainz holy war in >Sorry, English is not my native language, I have no idea what you mean with this...Ron

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Ron
Sorry,just poking a little fun at the sometimes heated MSTS vs Trainz debates.
Since I'm no sure what part is not understood I'll break it down(please don't think that I think you're stupid,not the case) AIIIEEE was just the written form of a scream of rage and since some consider it a form of herisay(not sure on spelling)or straying from religious doctrine to prefer one system over the other.
Again sorry if I unintentionally offended you or anyone else.Gary S

"Some say this country's just out for a fight. After 9/11 man I'd have to say thats right"
"Have You Forgotten"
Darryl Worley

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No, you didn't offend me at all, I just didn't understand it, how can you offend me if I don't understand what you are saying ?
Ron

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TowncarI have been looking for a head-out cabview in Trainz for some time, to no avail.Could you tell me where you found yours. I know there are many others in Trainz who are seeking the the same info.Thanks

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Head out view is a view that's usable in some 3d party creator's trains. The default Auran's trains don't have them.
If there is a head out view you just choose it with the bracket (< >)
keys, I even have a caboose with a brakeman's view...
It just depends if the builder of the train made a head out view or not...
I don't know (yet) how to make a head out view for an existing train..I guess it has to be done by using GmaxRon

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>It will be a long wait and hope that MICROSOFT will be
>sensible enough to give us further hints of what we can
>expect and when or there will be a mass emigration over to
>the other side ! There is enough room for both of them. Some will chose MS, some will chose Trainz, some will chose both.
It's only matter of preference. I surely will be getting MSTS2 even I spend more time on and prefer Trainz.

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Same here Georgi !Will have a look at TZ RS-2004, having tried the original but preferred MSTS.Learned a lot about MSTS, including building my own Routes, but got a feeling that I may have to start all over again after the next MSTS has been released ?One way or the other us Trainsimmers should have plenty of new and improved things to do, soon I hope ! O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-21-03 AT 07:45 PM (EDT)

If MS was smart they would scrap KUJU Graphic Scenery Engine in Lieu of the one used for FS2004 which is very fluid! This would allow the use of existing FS Scenery which is already very detailed. With a modified Autogen capability detailed scenery placement (although not necessarily accurate) can be placed automatically. You would still have the capability to create more accurate scenery manually. You would no longer be limited in the size of the route as scenery is covered worldwide! The biggest advantage to this approach would be the possibility of integrating it with FS2004, and CFS 3.0. multi-player. This would enhance the capabilities of both products.

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Only that you will need super comptuer for that.

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Actually no you wouldn't! FS2004 now has very high FPS in most cases. Exception being very dense areas with high AI traffic, like LAX with Ultimate Traffic! No different then say Washington DC with AI trains in MSTS 1.0. There is also no stutter problem in the FS2004 engine, so scenery loads won't be a problem like they are in MSTS today.

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To have a MSTS Graphics Engine doing for Train-Sim what the FS-2004 one is doing for Flight-SIM is what I am hoping for, Thomas.Logic would suggest that MS experienced DirectX-9 Graphics coders would be employed to convert MSTS' outdated KUJU proprietary ACE Graphics to bring them into line with what they know best ?Will take them a while to learn enough about Train Simming to do it ? As I keep saying, why not consult the best in the MSTS Train-Sim Add-On community to help them do it ? Or are they doing that already ? O t t o

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Hello!
I was playing with your thought about joining FS and TS into one application already for some time and now I see I'm not the only one. I am quite certain that we will, in a foreseeable future, end with one stam program, i.e. The MS World containing several modules, i.e. MSFS, MSTS etc. Add the transparent and easy to use multiplayer, 3d goggles and similar whatnots, ..., isn't this like the Matrix? Me happily driving a train when the XF-39 test pilot accidentally tries the afterburners just at the end of the tunnel. Be careful not to be using the smell and feel enhancing software at that moment. There would of course also be the walking bad guys (MS agents).
All this is soooo surreal. Or is it not? Anybody willing to comment on this?
Cheers!
Mark

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>There is enough room for both of them. That's always been my feeling.-Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

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Ya Thats what i've been thinking.
I think that the new Trainz will be really good. With being able to load you train, and actually see the effects of your preformance in the virtual rail world.Although i havn't heard if MSTS2 will feature such features. Theyre they major ones i'm buying Trainz 2004.And of course getting MSTS2 since well... ummm... It's MSTS

Rob
Great North Rails

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Hi All Every One Listen...........TRAINZ TOP OF THE WORLD SIM......
TRAINZ GIFT OF TRAINS LOVER...
THANKS
THE GMU-30

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No way! MSTS rules!

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Neither of the above 2 Screen shots are anything to shout about ! What went wrong ? They do not show what the new TRS-2004 will be like nor what MSTS is capable of, like this one: O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-03 AT 00:39 AM (EDT)

Why not forget MSTS and Trainz and play BVE? I have both BVE and MSTS and I play BVE more!

-----You are reading my signature now, don't waste your time reading it!-----
Or probably, maybe you should waste your time reading it.
Eh, where did my signature go?
Oh, here it is, the one you are reading right now? Can't you see it? I know I know, it's probably too bright to see it.
Hey, look at my avatar, nice right? I drew it with my own hands holding the mouse in Paint, with the pencil tool(and the Filling tool!)!
It's a picture of me in Planet Stooopid, where everything is the same as what you call "Earth" except that we are called "aliens" in your planet.
Anyway, I warned you not waste time reading my signature! You have just wasted probably about 30 seconds reading it, where you could have spent the time doing better things, like maybe reading the next post below if there is one...

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I have all of those, and Trainmaster.Each has its strengths and weaknesses. They're both (MSTS and Trainz) good for different things. BVE is best for out-the-cab only. Trainmaster was great in its day, but I must admit I don't use it often anymore.It depends on what you want in a train simulator. There is room for all of the above, although trainmaster carries the steepest pricetag and smallest number of routes, so I suspect it is no longer really on anyone's list.I am STILL waiting for a train simulator that is not BVE to have a train that moves from the cab LIKE A TRAIN DOES!! Why doesn't it rock, roll, pitch, and bump? I want to tilt my head a bit when you go into a banked curve like I do in BVE. I will just hope and wait for TRS-2004 and MSTS-2. Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:

The Union Atlantic Railroad: Your stuff's important!

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>BVE is best for
>out-the-cab only. Well, in real life, you can't be floating 500m in the air! Unless you're driving that Zeppelin or helicopter...

-----You are reading my signature now, don't waste your time reading it!-----
Or probably, maybe you should waste your time reading it.
Eh, where did my signature go?
Oh, here it is, the one you are reading right now? Can't you see it? I know I know, it's probably too bright to see it.
Hey, look at my avatar, nice right? I drew it with my own hands holding the mouse in Paint, with the pencil tool(and the Filling tool!)!
It's a picture of me in Planet Stooopid, where everything is the same as what you call "Earth" except that we are called "aliens" in your planet.
Anyway, I warned you not waste time reading my signature! You have just wasted probably about 30 seconds reading it, where you could have spent the time doing better things, like maybe reading the next post below if there is one...

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>No way! MSTS rules! Georgi's shot is either MSTS with all of the quality sliders intentionally turned off or a screen shot of the new Trainz 2004. Hard to tell which, both would look the same.

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I thought I would just add the following to the discussion:1. Georgi55 is NOT allowed to post any screenshots of TRS2004 until he has the retail version in his hands and installed on his computer. This "order" was given by Auran and the NDA. Therefore, if the screenshot IS TRS2004, he just broke the NDA.2. I have one route in TRS2004 (beta version) with a configuration that contains 31 consists. I am able to "play" it much the way that Sniper's Port ... was designed to be played. What the end user is able to do without any "activity" or "scenerio" can only be expressed as "astonishing." I can send a locomotive to couple up to a consist, then send it to a specific location on the route or to an "industry," I can then tell it to load up there, send it somewhere else, unload, etc. All of this just by clicks of the mouse. "Astonishing" is truly descriptive. Lawrence

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-21-03 AT 09:22 PM (EDT)

As cool as Msts2 looks I would go with trainz it to has good graphics and the software is more reliable, Msts1 had so many bugs and gliches that im afraid to try it. I have tried trainz and i got perfect preformance.Stephen White

Oh and have a nice day.

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I'm afraid I'm a die-hard MSTS user myself. I currently own Trainz but I feel Auran has become somewhat like EA with The Sims series. Instead of patching the original release, they release pretty much the same thing everytime with a tiny incentive such as 3rd party content or what not with a price tag of nearly $60 CDN. That is just a pile of crap to me. I payed nearly $50 CDN for my version of Trainz. I like it alot but I refuse to give up anymore of my money until I see a VAST improvement in the next version. The "Ultimate Trainz Collection" in my opinion, was a total money grab. I really don't see why it couldn't have been put into a free patch such as SP3. I have seen the shots of TRS-2004. They barely looked any more graphically rich than the current version and the only real incentive pulling users to this one is the belief that Trainz is now a simulator... that and the DDA40X which Auran had been playing around with since v.1.0.0. I'm sure the die-hard Trainz users are in shock and have the cursings on hand already but all I have to say is, Trainz is not worth it IMHO. IMHO.~The only way to ship~

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So you decide what's inside TRS2004 by looking at a non moving picture rather than focusing on features?
Very uninformed, VERY.

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Well you see you make that statement based upon the fact that you are a beta tester. I am not. I have seen screenshots, watched movies and all I see is another Trainz with a couple more options here and there. I'm not convinced.~The only way to ship~

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Hence my point that you are uninformed
Just wait for the DEMO (no official word but I'm sure there will be one), you will see how much improvement was done.

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That I shall do. I'm not saying Trainz sucks or anything. I'm just not convinced. Hopefully, this so called demo will show me something I haven't seen yet ~The only way to ship~

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Just a quick shot of the Bigboy at 6.20am on my new Route. Regards

Axe's Website -
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~axe777/

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Actually it might have been a bit later than 6.20am. Not enuff Orange. hmmm I will have to fix that. RegardsAXE

Axe's Website -
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~axe777/

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