KUJU press release

With the exception of the "Open Architecture" statment in the third paragraph, there's not much new here.http://www.gamespydaily.com/news/pressrelease.asp?id=2045Microsoft Train Simulator 2": Kuju Steams Ahead with Microsoft "Train Simulator" Sequel
Godalming, Surrey, UK. — 10th June 2003 — Kuju Entertainment is pleased to announce "Microsoft Train Simulator 2" on PC for Microsoft Game Studios. Train enthusiasts and Windows gamers worldwide have been eagerly awaiting the sequel.The follow-up to the No. 1 best-selling train simulation PC game, "Microsoft Train Simulator 2" provides the opportunity to command a 200-ton modern diesel locomotive or operate a steam-breathing behemoth from the past. Taking cues from the exacting standards of quality and realism associated with the "Microsoft Flight Simulator" product family, the latest edition in the "Microsoft Train Simulator" series takes the simulation to new levels of realism and player immersion. "We've worked extremely closely with Microsoft to ensure that 'Microsoft Train Simulator 2' meets everyone's high expectations and are very pleased with the results," said Jonathan Newth, managing director of Kuju Entertainment. "The levels of detail and fidelity have improved tremendously, and we've further developed the product's open architecture. The open architecture is a key feature which enables users to easily enhance their experience by downloading additional tracks, engines and scenery.""Microsoft Train Simulator 2" features include the following:Five new, highly detailed routes from around the world. "Microsoft Train Simulator 2" allows virtual engineers to relive the golden age of steam by taking trains around the historic Horseshoe Curve on the Pennsylvania Railroad circa 1946, or on a high-speed run through Germany on the world-famous Deutsche Bahn AG.A living world. Railroads in "Microsoft Train Simulator 2" run through a dynamic environment, immersing conductors in a virtual world. Virtual engineers look out of their locomotive to see people in the stations and on the streets, cars moving about, and animals roaming the countryside. A new dynamic weather effect adds an additional layer of realism. Realistic railroad simulation. Virtual engineers can take charge of one of 13 fully interactive 3-D cabs complete with accurate, fully functional gauges and working controls, including, for the first time, U.S. steam locomotives. Vivid sound effects bring to life the rumble of a powerful modern diesel as it lugs a long coal train and the distinctive sounds of high-speed electric locomotives as they operate over famous routes in Europe.Real-world rail activities. Operational events unique to each route allow virtual engineers to choose from a variety of activities such as operating a passenger train on a strict timetable or keeping a heavy steam-powered freight train running at peak efficiency. Alternatively, users can sit back and enjoy many of the routes in the role of a passenger as the train rolls down the tracks.Open architecture. "Microsoft Train Simulator 2" allows users to customize and expand their experience by creating new trains, routes, scenery and challenges that suit their specific interests. Users also will find it easy to add content from third-party sources and import content from "Microsoft Train Simulator v1.0." Updates on the latest railroad features will be available online to enhance gameplay. "Microsoft Train Simulator 2" will be available for PC in autumn 2003

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RE: KUJU press release, IcyFire, Jun-10-03, 04:24 PM, (1) RE: KUJU press release, Claude350, Jun-10-03, 06:07 PM, (2) RE: KUJU press release, BNSF4723, Jun-10-03, 07:19 PM, (3) RE: KUJU press release, csxac44_69, Jun-10-03, 07:46 PM, (4) RE: KUJU press release, ctillier, Jun-10-03, 09:43 PM, (6) RE: KUJU press release, SouthernCpl, Jun-20-03, 00:40 AM, (20) RE: KUJU press release, OTTODAD, Jun-10-03, 09:23 PM, (5) RE: KUJU press release, TrainFreak, Jun-11-03, 04:49 AM, (7) RE: KUJU press release, OTTODAD, Jun-11-03, 08:23 AM, (8) RE: KUJU press release, heffed, Jun-11-03, 04:44 PM, (9) RE: KUJU press release, DTA, Jun-11-03, 05:55 PM, (10) RE: KUJU press release, Brando, Jun-12-03, 09:00 AM, (11) RE: KUJU press release, OTTODAD, Jun-12-03, 03:04 PM, (12) RE: KUJU press release, OTTODAD, Jun-12-03, 08:27 PM, (13) RE: KUJU press release, dyvach, Jun-13-03, 05:40 AM, (14) RE: KUJU press release, happyj, Jun-13-03, 06:21 AM, (15) RE: KUJU press release, DTA, Jun-13-03, 06:50 PM, (16) RE: KUJU press release, sniper297, Jun-18-03, 02:56 PM, (17) RE: KUJU press release, DTA, Jun-19-03, 06:28 PM, (18) RE: KUJU press release, edwardk, Jun-20-03, 00:28 AM, (19) RE: KUJU press release, plainsman, Jun-20-03, 02:35 AM, (21) RE: KUJU press release, edwardk, Jun-20-03, 03:38 AM, (22) RE: KUJU press release, DTA, Jun-20-03, 05:14 PM, (23) RE: KUJU press release, plainsman, Jun-20-03, 07:09 PM, (24) RE: KUJU press release, sniper297, Jun-21-03, 00:55 AM, (25) RE: KUJU press release, TrainFreak, Jun-21-03, 05:23 AM, (26) RE: KUJU press release, DTA, Jun-21-03, 02:12 PM, (27) RE: KUJU press release, sniper297, Jun-21-03, 06:33 PM, (28) RE: KUJU press release, DTA, Jun-21-03, 06:57 PM, (29) RE: KUJU press release, xlspecial261, Jun-23-03, 06:52 AM, (30) RE: KUJU press release, Iggy, Jun-23-03, 12:00 PM, (31) RE: KUJU press release, urslow, Jun-23-03, 09:23 PM, (32) RE: KUJU press release, sniper297, Jun-23-03, 10:26 PM, (33) RE: KUJU press release, georgi55_temp, Jun-24-03, 10:41 AM, (34)

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

this looks like a rehash of the first press release, I dont see nothing new

Shawn Kenselaar, shawnssk@yahoo.com
Screen Shot Forum Mod; Repainter for TKW & YLW
The NYO&W is Gone, But never forgotten!!!

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Jun-10-03 AT 06:08 PM (EDT)

I've seen the pictures of all the steam stuff.What type of diesel locos will there be for us diesel lovers?.What roads will be featured for the dielsel locos?Are there any pictures online that features any of the diesels for MSTS2?

Claude350
cdebnam@bellsouth.net

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I've heard it rumoured that there is supposed to be NS SD70's but there was no public announcement or screenshots of them.Looks Like a Pony RUNS LIKE A STALLION

September 11th, 2001: I stand united! Peace to those who perished... R.I.P

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>I've heard it rumoured that there is supposed to be NS
>SD70's but there was no public announcement or screenshots
>of them. If you look through all the screenshots of the shots from E3 or previews that sites have provided, you will find atleast two screenshots of a spartan cab sd70 in NS paint. Have a Safe CSX day,
-csxac44_69

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

There also exist some videos featuring said SD70.
See www.trainlink.de for examplecheers
Clem

--
Clem

http://www.tillier.net/speedworks/index.html

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

So far the only thing I see wrong w/ that SD70 is the fact that NS spartan cab 70's still had computer read outs as in some of the GE's and 70M's, (as opposed to the analog guages, which any engineer knows are better, but I think it would be cool to have a goodlooking control stand with those on top just to put some funk in the spartan cab.) Like this one.Aside from that, I can't wait, I've been waiting for some big pensy steam power. That M1 looks gorgeous.

EIN

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3ef28f890f7d922b.jpg

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

> "We've worked extremely closely with Microsoft to ensure
> that 'Microsoft Train Simulator 2' meets everyone's high
> expectations and are very pleased with the results," said
> Jonathan Newth, managing director of Kuju Entertainment. They should have worked "EXTREMELY CLOSE" with dedicated MSTS-1 users and developers of Add-On Routes instead. What M$ - KUJU are pleased with does not matter. What does matters is whether you and I are going to like MSTS-2 !!!Mr. Newth and his major shareholder fellow director are more concerned with tempting M$ to take them over than giving Train Simmers what they want. Having gone "Public" last year, raising 2.5 Mill. Sterling, they will have to show their Shareholders results soon. The last I read is that they are losing money !> "The levels of detail and fidelity have improved
> tremendously, and we've further developed the product's open
> architecture. The open architecture is a key feature which
> enables users to easily enhance their experience by
> downloading additional tracks, engines and scenery." We are not so much interested in "Cosmetics" but more in the overall functionality of MSTS-2. Simply dressing up the old kit with new cloths is just not good enough !> Realistic railroad simulation. Virtual engineers can take
> charge of one of 13 fully interactive 3-D cabs complete with
> accurate, fully functional gauges and working controls,
> including, for the first time, U.S. steam locomotives. Vivid
> sound effects bring to life the rumble of a powerful modern
> diesel as it lugs a long coal train and the distinctive
> sounds of high-speed electric locomotives as they operate
> over famous routes in Europe. What "Working Controls", compatible with the RAILDRIVER ? Vivid Sounds ? We already have those !> Real-world rail activities. Operational events unique to
> each route allow virtual engineers to choose from a variety
> of activities such as operating a passenger train on a
> strict timetable or keeping a heavy steam-powered freight
> train running at peak efficiency.What an incredible revelation of new developments, already in existence in MSTS-1 !> Alternatively, users can sit back and enjoy many of the routes in the role of a
>passenger as the train rolls down the tracks. That's if the Scenery rolling past their carriage windows is worth looking at ! I prefer to do that from the Driver's Cab !> .... and import content from "Microsoft Train Simulator v1.0." Until KUJU tells the Developers how this is going to be achieved these are just "WORDS" !> "Microsoft Train Simulator 2" will be available for PC in autumn 2003In the U.K. and that is where KUJU are based, that means by September the 21st ! Overall this is a pathetic "Marketing" exercise, falling light-years short of what M$ are capable of. But even they have a hard time these days to make customers believe in what they are selling and advertising ! We all have learned our lessons the hard way, no good trying to fool Joe Bloggs anymore !!!O t t o

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>> "We've worked extremely closely with
>Microsoft to ensure
>> that 'Microsoft Train Simulator 2' meets everyone's high
>> expectations and are very pleased with the results," said
>> Jonathan Newth, managing director of Kuju Entertainment.
>
>They should have worked "EXTREMELY CLOSE" with dedicated
>MSTS-1 users and developers of Add-On Routes instead. What
>M$ - KUJU are pleased with does not matter. What does
>matters is whether you and I are going to like MSTS-2
>!!! TrainArtisan is with 99.9% certainty involved.
And judging by the screenshots seen of the Continental European rolling stock, it seems like ProTrain might well be involved as well...

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Yes I suspected that they had enough sense to do that ! There were enough hints about "Non Disclosure" agreements around at one time.Have Jim Ward (P.O.&.N), Teemu Saukkonen (N.&.J.C.), Okrasa Ghia (XTracks), Mike Vone (ALBULA-2), Bill Burnett (SEAVIEW-3) and other leading Add-On Creators been consulted ? I hope so.If the above was the case then why don't they say so. It would convince more people that the next MSTS will be worth having and carry more weight than saying that KUJU and Microsoft are "Pleased" with it ! Looking at their past MSTS record that does not amount to much ! O t t o

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>TrainArtisan is with 99.9% certainty involved.
>And judging by the screenshots seen of the Continental
>European rolling stock, it seems like ProTrain might well be
>involved as well... KUJU or M$ (can't remember which) made a statement that no third party developers have been involved. -Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

They certainly have, though maybe not in the actual creation of routes. TA may or may not be involved, as their trains were used in an update of the original. From what I know of the routes, I don't think we are going to get full value, certainly in length, and I expect the activities to be as short and unimaginative as the originals.Those of you that have tried Norbets new activity for NEC4, (87 AI trains and a whole load of fun!), better set their sights lower for MSTS2. As for German routes, we have far too many already, so KUJU are just duplicating all the stuff we already have: German railroads 1 and 2, Protrain 1 2 and 3, plus Semmering, and 2 others in the pipeline.And why the secrets over what routes are coming? Ok we give u 2 and u can guess the rest! LOL! And you also get the routes are transferable to MSTS2 but activities are not, very useful!While I am not a particular fan of trainz, at least they talk to their customers, unlike KUJU, who take very little notice.David

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Could someone knowledgeable on the evolution of the MS flight simululator comment on how the program has evolved over the many releases?I for one have low expectations for content with MSTS2 - what I have high expectations for is improvements to the infrastructure - the graphics engine, the physics, etc. Content can be developed, probably better, by the very talented people in the MSTS community.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I started with FS-1, MS-FS gradually getting better and better over the years, M$-DirectX being released, until rapidly improving Graphics Technology and Graphics Cards forced the then independent developers of it to update it, helped by M$ no doubt. The result was FS-2000, most of us Flight Simmers would rather forget, having been a flawed second-grade interim version rather then a totally revised and re-designed product.This was followed by FS2002 soon afterwards, vastly improved, the best FligthSim on the market to date. Further improvements catering for DirectX-9 and taking advantage of the latest Cards from nVIDIA and ATI are about to hit the market under the label of FS2004.Looks like MSTS is following the same pattern, KUJU more likely to do the same with MSTS-2, giving us whatever they can throw together in a hurry, using the latest Graphics Technology to keep M$ happy. This will allow them time to re-design MSTS from the basement up which is what needs doing, to be released in 2004 and make some money they need in the meantime ? The Capital they raised going "Public" is not going to last forever ! If KUJU do not come out with a radically different MSTS compared with the current one, they will run the risk of being outclassed by the new Railroad Simulator 2004 from TRAINZ ! O t t o

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

As I was saying:> If KUJU do not come out with a radically different MSTS compared with
> the current one they will run the risk of being outclassed by the new
> Railroad Simulator 2004 from TRAINZ ! Had a look at the competition checking on something unrelated when I spotted this:Is this a REAL example of what they got lined up with their new RS-2004, as well as a number of other things they got we could do with in MSTS ? If so then KUJU will have a job on their hands improving on that !O t t o

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Is this a REAL example of what they got lined up with their
>new RS-2004Nope, that's a screenshot from the current Trainz version, UTC. The new version will hopefully add some more features.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>As I was saying:
>
>> If KUJU do not come out with a
>radically different MSTS compared with
>> the current one they will run the risk of being outclassed by the new
>> Railroad Simulator 2004 from TRAINZ !
>
>Had a look at the competition checking on something
>unrelated when I spotted this:
>
>
>
>Is this a REAL example of what they got lined up with their
>new RS-2004, as well as a number of other things they
>got we could do with in MSTS ? If so then KUJU will
>have a job on their hands improving on that !
>
>O t t o
OttoUnfortunately I have to admit that Trainz has much to offer that is not included in MSTS.You can run multiple consists in a layout allowing one to operate much the same as you can In Jim Ward s PO@N 6. For those who like routes with a Maritime setting you can include driveable ships or other related marine equipment.You may recall my problem with flickering in overhead gantries. This problem does not seem to appear in Trainz

The major problem I had was getting the program to run, what with difficulty in getting the software to accept the serial number, the frustration of trying to read a manual with very fine print, and because of this difficulty in running the first scenario which had a dark screen which I later found was because the first scenario was starting at 5.00 AM and when adjusted in the Settings section.Should Trainz fix these problems and KUJU fail to come up with better programs then MSTS faces some stiff competition

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

For a start, Trainz does listen and react to criticism.While I have had a few messages from Kuju, one telling me my route predictions for MSTS2 were rubbish, when one of his colleagues had given me the info in the first place!, in the end, their info to the public is virtually non existant. Luckily some of their staff are more informative.If you look at their record to date:6 good routes in the original, all with rubbish activities.
Incorrect speed limits on every route.
Far too few buildings, and stupid backpackers and deer.
Miscalculated distances between stations on Japan route1, which made the route impossible to play correctly.
Track errors on 3 of the routes that cause major problems when running. (Question: did KUJU actually run any activities?).They test their routes and activities on Compaq machines! Hardly the state of the art, PC wise. I just hope they were free! LOL!While I know there are 3 people there who actually like trains, there are loads more working, who could not care less about what they are producing, which is hardly the way to make a good train sim.I spoke to one of their staff a few days ago, and he had no idea of any of the independent routes produced for Train sim, or any of the updates for existing routes, or any of the additional activities.
I would call that insular, to say the least, and arrogant in the extreme.I expect MSTS2 will be a bit less than awful, but we can hope. To be honest, I hope that KUJU goes bust, and we can get a good set of people making trains.David

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

"I would call that insular, to say the least, and arrogant in the extreme." Not to mention obvlivious.No, nobody has contacted me, and I've been unable to contact them, since the "feedback" link is always "service not available" whenever I think to try it. I don't do free beta testing for commercial software as a general rule, beta testing done properly is a deadly dull and tedious job. Obviously they had nobody who did repeat tests over and over again with only minor variations, or they would have caught most of the bugs in the first place, and wouldn't have taken 8 months to release a patch that didn't fix anything important. They changed the fuel filler on the default GP38.eng without fixing that little bitty throttle notch bug in the same file we found and fixed within a month of first release?! That shows they weren't actually driving the GP38, the difficulty getting it into notch 1 was obvious to anyone who tried to do any switching/shunting. And altho switching/shunting fanatics are a very small minority, to me that front coupler bug was a hell of a lot more important than fuel filler ports. MaxDieselLevel ( 2000gal )
DieselUsedPerHourAtMaxPower ( 60gal )
DieselUsedPerHourAtIdle ( 10gal )
If my calculator isn't crazy, I make that 33 hours at full throttle before the gas tank empties. And I strongly suspect that people who would prefer to start out with an empty tank and stop to "fill 'er up!" are an even smaller minority than switching/shunting fanatics, gassing up a diesel loco is unlikely to be considered an interesting and fun aspect of train operations by the majority. KUJU has no Klue, since as someone mentioned the few employees with even a passing interest in trains might drive a train in explore route a few times and that's it. The initial front coupler bug was that the brakes wouldn't release, apparently they fixed the brake release, tested once by coupling on to a loose consist with the front coupler and confirming it released, and went back to their dream world where nobody actually uses either coupler.If I could get in touch with anyone there, I would make an exception and volunteer as an unpaid beta tester for MSTS 2 (or MSTS 3, since it's probably already too late for V2) if I could get in touch with anyone, I'm fighting the blasted thing for free now anyway. One thing I am doing is making sure I have my DSL connected before starting trainsim, and when I get a front coupler lockup I hit the "S" key on the keyboard (since send/don't send is buggy itself, the window is usually hidden behind the frozen trainsim screen so you can't see it) to make sure I bombard the bozos with front coupler error reports. Come to think of it, it's time for a front coupler crusade, let's see if we can get all the switching/shunting fanatics to send every time they get a lockup.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

It would be nice if they could use someone like you sniper. Your route has been an innovation from the start, and your freeplay activities are worth looking at! Sadly, they seem to think that employing nerds is the way forward! One of the team told me they had real people on the stations, several months ago, and was quite put out when I said we already had people in cabs and on stations. David

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

David,I really find it hard to believe that the Kuju team that is working on MSTS 2 have no idea what is going on within the MSTS community. Is there a possiblility that one maybe two know what is going on??? You would think that they would at least read the forums every once in a while to see whats been happening with their first release. How would they know that the physics are even close, correct, or even bad unless they have a resident expert helping them? I only hope that Microsoft is on them to make sure that the same mistake is not made twice and that the testing is better.Edward K.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

From all reports, the current KUJU team does not have any rail buffs or technical gurus on the team. Most of the team does not have any interest in trains. Their focus is on gameplay and graphical glitz. Quite a number of people over a lengthy period of time have tried to instill a need for more realistic performance, but apparently the team feels that would interfere with the game play ability of unskilled users. The obvious skill and easy key switch solution has, so far, managed to evade their tought process.
The original engine was obviously written by some engineering consultant (not a weekend project for graphic designers), but the coding does not seem to reflect his continued input. ???


Bob

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Than maybe we should hope that MSTS 3 and beyond gets developed personally by a Microsoft team. There is evidently a love for Flight Simulator which of course got started by another company. Since we are going to be able carry over the existing engines and wagons, it sounds like we will still have the standard script to work with. Hopefully we will have better documentation along with the enhanced script. If this is the case, than we will just have to fine tune it ourselves. Besides, is there somebody here who really knows what their focus is and how everything is going to be put together? I'm sure Microsoft has to be giving the Kuju team something to follow.Edward K.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

There are some guys with the knowhow. Otherwise the original would have been terribly wrong with the physics of trains, and most of that is well done. The original trains and consists were also good.
The areas lacking were the original routes, where there were loads of mistakes, the activities which were extremely basic, and far too few. I don't think that Kuju thought too much about animals and people to begin with, but we have seen since what can be done with those. To be honest, I think they were afraid about frame rates for lesser machines, but everyone updates their PCs to make things run better.Independent route and activity developers have shown what can be done, so I hope they have come up with new innovations.While their choice of routes for MSTS2 seems to lack knowledge of the History of trains (in the UK at least), we will have to wait and see. The choice of a German route, when there are already 6 commercial ones available, seems a bit dubious.David

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi David,
Please don't take this the wrong way, but you must have been sleeping under a rock if you think the original trains and consists were good?? The physics engine is not bad, but much of the work was uncoded, the actual physics data was way off, and the couplers are an absolute farce. The air braking was overwhelmingly strong, and the dynamic braking all but useless. Other than that, they were almost fine.
Bob

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Not a question of sleeping under rocks or in caves, Bob. It's primarily a matter of the often asked question "which route is the best", and the only true answer is; it depends on how you play with trains. My preference has always been the switching & peddler freight, my brother (who recently crawled out from under his rock and bought MSTS 1) prefers long heavy freights, but likes switching ops too. After having the same experience I did two years ago (only one suitable default freight route with ridiculously lame activities), he downloaded a few routes (I didn't have that option, no add on routes available the first couple of months!), and after getting PO&N6 he hasn't played on anything else. Once he found how to hack the consists tho, he put together a 2 engine + 30 car train as the default player starting consist to replace my one or two engine-only player consists so he didn't have to start the activities by making up his own train. To me that feels like cheating, I like to start with only the engine and assemble whatever I'm gonna pull. He plays pretty much the same way I do after that, stopping at each town to set out or add cars to the train, but he don't use the front coupler at all. I find that a little odd, if it's a facing point spur you just bypass it and go on to the next one?! Well, to each his own, and least he don't have to deal with the *&^%$#! random lockups. We're a very small minority tho, most people prefer to start with a pre-assembled train, and never add cars or set out cars, finish the activity or explore route with whatever consist they started with, and never even have the F9 coupler window or F8 switch window on the screen.Having a switching/shunting nut or a physics master on the team isn't really necessary to see that SOMETHING is wrong with the way they have the couplers set up tho, any idiot can couple two engines back to back and take them thru a tight curve. In fact I'll prove right now that any idiot can do that, watch me!

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>The original trains and consists were also good. Huh??
I must've got an early beta or something by mistake then... 'cause there were no 110-car unit grain trains, 85-car intermodal trains or 100+-car manifests running over Marias Pass in my version...
Rather 20-car intermodal trains, 30-car grain trains and puny 40-50-car manifests...

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

(Peeps out from under rock!) Sniper has hit it really, it depends what you like, and how real you want it to be. Being from the UK, I didn't really know too much about US trains at all. The BNSF units looked pretty much like the ones I had seen in photos, and the physics seemed how I guessed they might be. I have since made some 80 plus units for Marias (from the KHP engines and wagons). I have never had trouble with the front coupler, as long as I back up real slow.While I like freight activities, I prefer long runs to shunting and messing about in yards. My biggest preference is for plenty of AI, and thankfully, the newer routes from Europe are providing lots, plus I alter existing activities to fit.I have been one of the harsher critics of MSTS, but I have always regarded the engines and stock as reasonable. They must have got something right, it sold a lot!David

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hee-hee, well, shows my point."there were no 110-car unit grain trains, 85-car intermodal trains or 100+-car manifests running over Marias Pass in my version...
Rather 20-car intermodal trains, 30-car grain trains and puny 40-50-car manifests..."Rich Garber always said never mind reality, for activities you're choreographing a stage show. We're creating an illusion here. For me 30 to 50 car trains are enough to create the feeling of 100+ car trains without eating up ALL of the FPS, and unless you're actually counting cars going by, and if the train is moving slowly enough, it feels real enough to me. If the CPU will only handle 500 cars before it melts down, for me fifteen 33 car AI trains are better than five 100 car trains. I discovered something similar in model railroading a long time ago, you only have so much space in the basement for passing sidings (BR "loop"), so you're stuck with running shorter trains than you'd like to. A 1200 foot long train in HO scale is 13.8 feet, takes up a lotta basement. So if twenty 60 foot cars (1200 feet) is the limit that will fit on a passing siding, then thirty of the older 40 foot cars (also 1200 feet) will fit in the same space and for some reason it looks like a longer train from any angle.

DTA:
"I have never had trouble with the front coupler, as long as I back up real slow.While I like freight activities, I prefer long runs to shunting and messing about in yards."That second preference statement explains the first, I have a lot more trouble with the front coupler than the average trainsimmer, because I use it a lot more. The lockup/crash/send-don't send after the 1.1 patch came out was something experienced primarily by shitching/shunting nuts, most people who were not switching/shunting nuts, if they offered an opinion at all, it was "I coupled the engine on backwards and reversed at 100mph, so it works just fine for me!"That's why I don't hold out much hope for them even partially fixing the front coupler bug, due to the preferences/tastes of the majority, KUJU is under the impression that the 1.1 patch fixed everything, nothing more to fix. From the readme:
The front coupler is now functional.
"They must have got something right, it sold a lot!"They didn't have any serious competition when it first came out. That other sim (MSTS 2 forum, don't say the "T" word!) is more and more looking like it's gonna take over the sales lead, at least for people who are serious about operations. Most MSTS buyers want people walking in and out the doors at station stops, so that kind of nonsense is what MS/KUJU is focused on.There are several other threads here with a "what I want from MSTS 2" theme, the overwhelming majority don't really interest me, but judging by the responses some ideas are pretty popular.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Replying to this while playing Bonnie Raitt. So I am chugging! LOL!
(BTW Sniper I admire what u do do non train wise, you have one calm mind there. Having brought up two children with no hitting allowed (I was never smacked as a child), I sincerely admire what you do!Anything Rich Garber says is ok by me! Re reality and trainsets, they all ran on electricity, even the steamers, so what price reality! Some of my early Hornby was clockwork! LOL!Re Trainz (whoops!), it aint even close so far, and I have it.I will buy anything running on rails anyway!David

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

If they get the brakes right, a 115 car unit train is a LOT different to run than a 25 car wayfreight.Sniper- Your brother is actually doing it like a wayfreight/local/patrol (MILW terminalogy) generally spots industries. They work the trailing point industries on their way out and get the others on the way back to the terminal.If you ran around your train at every town you'd die on hours every time. Besides, your train probably isn't going to be blocked for it after the first town.Of course if you run it like the real deal, you'll be using the "wrong" end all the way back home. (Of course industry switchers will use both ends quite often.)Todd

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

What bugs me the most about MSTS is being unable to switch engines. EI, Running two GP38s and its time to go back home, instead turning the engines, you could just hop in the other cab.
I love the Ohio Rail but it has a lot of wyes to turn trains and engines. In the real world, wyes eat up a lot of very expensive realestate and are not built unless required. The ability to switch cabs would eliminate a lot extra track laying.
Turning a pair of engines on a wye because you can't switch cabs, is ridiculous.As far KuJu not having any train nuts on staff.
They don't need any, they have access to all the train nuts right here! They don't need to beta test MSTS2, the community will do it for them for free! As far as patches, no need to release any, someone around here will come up with a fix. KuJu can keep a minimal staff, any help they need can be found here!That is called irony. I am not defending Kuju.
My version of MSTS is so much better now than the out of the box version. Thanks to all the people that read this forum and love trains.
So what if MSTS2 sucks, we can and will make it beter.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Well, this has been a very interesting thread. But I think a few people need to know a thing or two about Auran's Trainz. I had MSTS first, and thought wow, this is heaven. Then I purchased Trainz, and saw a totally different side to the sims. First of all, MSTS has the advantage over Trainz only because MSTS was first to hit the market. Secondly there is all of this talk of frame rates. Well Trainz has MSTS beat as far as scenery, but this comes at a price, and the price in Trainz is stuttering, and upgrading your computer isn't a sure cure either. Third party content, is finally becoming available in quanity for Trainz. Auran does respond to customers commments both via e-mail and in their forums, as a matter of fact their whole (or most of them, and the head guys do for sure) crew read the forums over at Auran. Now for me the biggest thorn in my side regarding MSTS is how difficult it is to install the add on routes and etc. In Trainz, everything is installed the same way. I hope in MSTS 2 the installation procedure is updated and made a little easier.
Just my 2 cents worth,
Al

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Well, there is that, Todd. My Uncle was a C&NW hogger, used to run local freight/peddler freight from 40th Street yards to Proviso, and whether or not the front coupler was used depended on a whole bunch of factors. Usually a facing point spur with just one or two cars heading toward Proviso and real close to Proviso it wouldn't make sense to drag them all the way back to 40th Street, run around and pull all the way back to Proviso, but for spurs in the middle it was sometimes done that way. Depended on what else needed to be picked up and dropped off and where. Then there was the two belt line connections to take into consideration, with all the assorted spurs coming off of those. Usually with only 3 or 4 cars ahead of the engine and only running a few miles, you wouldn't bother to run around, just push them wherever you're going. Lotta people are surprised with that one way freight AI train on PO&N6 with the engine in the middle of the train, but you used to see a lot of that going back and forth on the C&NW and connecting belt lines by my house. Not much of it anymore, everything's going by truck these days, and a lot of manufacturing industries have gone elsewhere too. My usual thing when starting from Texas Tea, for example, is to pull the grain hoppers in Northland Grain #2 out with the front coupler and run around them, since there's a runaround siding right there. For Northland Grain #1 there's a wye, but no runaround siding. You could drop the train on the main, reverse on the wye, back in to pick up those four grain cars, then reverse again and couple onto the train and go, but it's much faster to pull them out with the front coupler and just push them into Johnsburg. Getting them on the return trip wouldn't make sense, the only thing in that direction is another grain elevator, an oil refinery, and a logging camp. Not much use for loaded grain cars at any of those destinations, and more time would be wasted pulling them out, taking them to the refinery, and reversing to take them to a more logical destination."I love the Ohio Rail but it has a lot of wyes to turn trains and engines."The Port Ogden & Northern has a lot more wyes, in a lot less space. Be nice to eliminate all but a few."In the real world, wyes eat up a lot of very expensive realestate and are not built unless required. The ability to switch cabs would eliminate a lot extra track laying.
Turning a pair of engines on a wye because you can't switch cabs, is ridiculous."The ability to switch cabs wouldn't help, the wyes are required for the front coupler bug. With a few assorted hacks it's possible to switch with the front coupler, but some cars just give you the lockup.crash/send-don't send no matter what, so you need to find a nearby wye to reverse the engine and drag it out with the back coupler. With two engines MUed back to back, the front coupler of the back engine becomes an extension of the back coupler of the front engine, so it still makes a difference."Now for me the biggest thorn in my side regarding MSTS is how difficult it is to install the add on routes"Another guy who's never tried the Port Ogden & Northern!

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>Another guy who's never tried the Port Ogden & Northern! But let's face reality, how many % of addons are made that way?
99% like Trainz? No I believe.
And, that install of PO&N IS simple compared to other MSTS addons
but not as simple as this:

Alert | IP

[ Home | MSTS Forum | MSTS FAQ | File Library ] Copyright © 2002 by Nels Anderson. All Rights Reserved.