Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive

LAST EDITED ON May-23-03 AT 04:28 AM (EDT)

Tony Hilliam is one of the directors of Auran and went to E3 with the Trainz crew in order to demo their TRS2004 product.
He was asked to provide feedback on not only TRS2004 but also what he saw of MSTS2.Here are his comments, unabridged, as posted tonight on the Auran Trainz forum. Note the references to the Activity Editor and the Route Editor.
------------------------------

Microsoft Train Simulator 2After setting up our stand at E3 on the Wednesday night, I popped over to Microsoft to see what sort of presence Train Sim had this year. I met up with Rick Selby, who heads Business Development for Train Simulator, and John Monsun, MSTS2 Product Manager, and they gave me a quick tour of their product.The first thing Rick pointed out was the 20,000 poly monster that no doubt you have all seen in the screenshots circulating. Great detail in the texturing with "burnt in" shadows for all the detailed pipework although the rolling stock looked a lot lower resolution. Next he talked about the greater density of scenery objects on display - the towns looked very nice, although the road traffic wasn't working in this build. As the passenger train pulled into the station, people started hopping off the train and then the people on the platform climbed aboard. Rick said that there was a lot more work to be done on improving the pathfinding and of course they would make sure the door would open before people got off the train As we drove off, an animated work crew dug a hole near the track. I asked about industry and they said that at this stage there were no loading and unloading animations planned.We jumped inside the cab to see the 3D interior, with a single fixed camera point, but totally zoomable and pannable range. The firebox was a nice video effect, although the smoke and steam effects outside were unfinished. The lighting in the cab changed colour when you opened the firebox and there was an orange flicker - cool effect. The sound was very loud and when it was working well, it sounded really good. However, it seemed to have a problem with timing as it would get slower and then suddenly speed up as if to catch up.Rick took the train to the turntable and showed me a great shot from inside a huge roundhouse as the train pulled in. I quipped that it was good to see so many of our original Trainz features had made it in to MSTS2 Next we exited that activity and started a new activity on the Deutsch Bahn route. I asked about the ability for users to create their own activities like this and they said it would be a lot easier than the first time around. I also asked about the route editor and Rick said they have done a huge amount of work on it but still have more work to go. Neither of the editors were ready for public display and so we'll have to wait to find more about that.I spent about 20 minutes with them in total and they also spoke about increased community support, better tutorials and an emphasis on a living, breathing world. I felt that the guys had listened to the feedback from their customers and were working on putting those features into the game (even if most of these features are already available in Trainz). It will be interesting to see how much improvement there will by the time the game ships, which they say will be Fall 2003.Bruce

AustRail

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RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., Stooopid_person, May-23-03, 04:29 AM, (1) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., LocoRo, May-23-03, 05:08 AM, (2) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., Boweavel, May-23-03, 05:18 AM, (3) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., brucek, May-23-03, 07:40 AM, (6) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., Hack, May-23-03, 06:01 AM, (4) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., dyvach, May-23-03, 06:10 AM, (5) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., ssw_96, May-23-03, 05:39 PM, (7) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., Hack, May-24-03, 01:21 AM, (10) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., edwardk, May-23-03, 07:27 PM, (8) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., Magick_maker, May-23-03, 09:55 PM, (9) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., richb, May-24-03, 12:47 PM, (11) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., yellowdog, May-24-03, 07:32 PM, (12) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., dgauci, May-24-03, 08:07 PM, (13) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., brucek, May-25-03, 05:15 AM, (14) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., dgauci, May-25-03, 10:30 AM, (16) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., brucek, May-26-03, 03:08 AM, (18) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., dgauci, May-26-03, 11:54 AM, (20) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., Engineer, May-25-03, 08:41 AM, (15) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., dgauci, May-25-03, 10:33 AM, (17) RE: Comments on MSTS2 from Auran Executive., Hentis, May-26-03, 03:52 AM, (19)

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>Rick said that
>there was a lot more work to be done on improving the
>pathfinding and of course they would make sure the door
>would open before people got off the train Yay! Opening doors!

------My favourite LUL train------

HAPPY NOW? It's not moving anymore.
It's still the same train but in another livery, that's all.

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Very nice article Greetings Roland
Netherlands

fan of Christrains©
www.christrains.com

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Ya missed Half of it Bruce Catchya'

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Quote:-Ya missed Half of it BruceNo I didn't.
This is the MSTSv2 conference, not the one for Trainz.Bruce.

AustRail

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>although the road traffic wasn't
>working in this build.Tony should have paid closer attention! I distinctly remember seeing cars, trucks and busses moving about - albeit bumping into one another at stops (a bounding box issue perhaps?). Vehicles had illuminated headlights, better texture and modeling depth than MSTS1, and made turns when coming to a "T" intersection (stop, turn right). All neat stuff which should add a lot to the final when released. Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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"although the road traffic wasn't working in this build."Tony should have paid closer attention! I distinctly remember seeing cars, trucks and busses moving about - albeit bumping into one another at stops (a bounding box issue perhaps?).Maybe that bumping was the reason he said it wasn't working

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I wonder how this 22,000 poly monster will run?

member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SP_MSTS

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>Maybe that bumping was the reason he said it wasn't working Stating it wasn't working implies exactly that - nothing - nada - zilch.Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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A portion of the paragraph indicated that they were not going to have animated loading/unloading for the industry. I wonder if they will enhance the pickup objects from the first release and at least provide a way to load grain cars or coal cars w/o the animation.Edward K.

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*chuckles* for some reason, I can't help but think back to the lionel train town where turntables worked, rotary dumpers, rotated, and Bascule bridges raised and lowered. That doesn't include all the industries that actually loaded

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With all said and done, you have to admit Tony Hilliam of Trainz is a classy guy to give a reasonable review of MSTS2. I don't think you'd find any M$ employee's giving out comments on competitive products!Rich

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The whole thing sounds contrived to me, but, then again, I was also the guy who thought maybe JC had done the work for the SD70s seen in screenshots. . . LOL.

---------Clayton---------

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>With all said and done, you have to admit Tony Hilliam of
>Trainz is a classy guy to give a reasonable review of MSTS2.
> I don't think you'd find any M$ employee's giving out
>comments on competitive products! Really? It's all a bit self-serving. When your number two you have to work harder just to be competitive and stay relevant. (Ask France right about now.) To simply ignore reality and pretend the 800 pound gorilla standing in your living room doesn't exist would not be very convincing. As far as MS giving out comments on competitors products, when your number one who really cares? Just keep making your own products better.

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Quote:-"...When your number two..."
Quote:-"...when your number one...""You're".Bruce.

AustRail

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>Quote:-"...When your number two..."
>Quote:-"...when your number one..."
>
>"You're". Correct, grammar is not my strong suit.

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LAST EDITED ON May-26-03 AT 03:09 AM (EDT)

I don't think that it's self-serving in the slightest.It would have been very easy for Mr. Hilliam to either decline from commenting on the MSTSv2 demonstration or to comment in a negative manner.He chose to do neither and commented in a similar manner to that of a neutral observer.When I posted the initial extract, I refrained from adding his commentary (under separate heading ) on the Trainz TRS2004 demonstration.
Perhaps I should have because you would have seen that he was bluntly honest about his own product and any failings that were evident during their time at E3.It is completely natural for one to champion one's own cause and it can be most difficult to make objective comment on not only any competitive product but also one's own creation.I think that what Mr. Hilliam said about MSTSv2 was completely fair and without undue bias.Bruce.

AustRail

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LAST EDITED ON May-26-03 AT 11:57 AM (EDT)

edited for spelling.>When I posted the initial extract, I refrained from adding
>his commentary (under separate heading ) on the Trainz
>TRS2004 demonstration.
>Perhaps I should have because you would have seen that he
>was bluntly honest about his own product and any failings
>that were evident during their time at E3. I receive the Trainz newsletter via email which also contained the full and complete commentary on both products, which I had read before I saw this message thread. My equally honest opinion was formed after reading the complete statement so I still stand by the sentiment of my original post.
>It is completely natural for one to champion one's own cause and
>it can be most difficult to make objective comment on not only any >competitive product but also one's own creation.
>
>I think that what Mr. Hilliam said about MSTSv2 was completely fair >and without undue bias.I didn't make any judgment on the fairness of his statements, obviously there is a bit of understandable bias on both sides.

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MSTS2 sounds good to me, a work in progress of course! There’s an old saying around the “IT” shops it takes MS 3 times to get it right. A resemblance of perfection, save bugs that is. With what seems promised in MSTS2, I can’t wait to see MSTS3! I would say their strategy was to come out with a low power version of MSTS that’s in the form of MSTS1, one that’s capable of running on low power computers to get it installed on as many as possible. Then up the power demands and the rest will follow! I got to get a hot Video card, the strategy worked with me.

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>I would say their strategy was to come
>out with a low power version of MSTS that’s in the form of
>MSTS1, one that’s capable of running on low power computers
>to get it installed on as many as possible. Then up the
>power demands and the rest will follow!MSTS was a version 1.0 product. They are now following the natural progression of software by refining it.

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Having met Tony last year I can tell you that this guys tells you as it is... He minces no words and I thought its damn good of him (or stupid) he posted about MSTS 2 and TRS2004 being reviewed from the E3 report. Even though there are some people on the Trainz forum who feel the same way about MSTS over there than you do about Trainz over here. For a twenty minute "session" I thought it was a deteailed report ad I for one cant wait to see what the end finished product is going to be like.... (lets hope its a decent UK route!) The main thing I and most other peoepl would like to see is a decent route editor that is Documented and supported and not just thrown on as an after thought. As per TRS2004 I will be purchasing that and would be looking forward to having both on my PC at the same time... What one wil get used the most.... not to sure!!!! only time will tell.CheersHentis

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hentis/
Site Update 26/05/03

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