Objects: please please help!

Can anyone help me with making some objects please? I will help with any sizes, textures, photos....the lot! Please because i am stuck with making some for my GWML. Anyone who can please reply here, and if you do, you will be credited for sure and have a demo of the line (way before it it is public demo released)please help me, I've tried it with the guides, im just dumb and i cant do it all
thanks for any help,
James.

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RE: objects: please please help!, techno79, Sep-25-03, 02:36 PM, (1) RE: objects: please please help!, PCrail, Sep-25-03, 02:47 PM, (2) RE: objects: please please help!, techno79, Sep-25-03, 03:20 PM, (3) RE: objects: please please help!, tof63, Sep-25-03, 05:21 PM, (4) RE: objects: please please help!, techno79, Sep-25-03, 05:36 PM, (6) RE: objects: please please help!, tof63, Sep-25-03, 06:07 PM, (7) RE: objects: please please help!, Technical Numpty, Sep-25-03, 05:32 PM, (5) RE: objects: please please help!, RailRide, Sep-25-03, 07:39 PM, (8) RE: objects: please please help!, Technical Numpty, Sep-25-03, 08:42 PM, (9) RE: objects: please please help!, cjh401, Sep-27-03, 09:48 AM, (10) RE: objects: please please help!, cjh401, Sep-27-03, 09:50 AM, (11) RE: objects: please please help!, TomBeevers2000, Sep-27-03, 10:20 AM, (12) RE: objects: please please help!, cjh401, Sep-28-03, 09:28 AM, (13) RE: objects: please please help!, PCrail, Sep-28-03, 09:54 AM, (14) RE: objects: please please help!, techno79, Sep-28-03, 10:05 PM, (18) RE: objects: please please help!, PCrail, Sep-29-03, 01:13 AM, (19) RE: objects: please please help!, Tim Frost, Sep-29-03, 02:01 AM, (20) RE: objects: please please help!, Stooopid_person, Sep-29-03, 07:03 AM, (21) RE: objects: please please help!, Tim Frost, Sep-29-03, 07:41 AM, (22) RE: objects: please please help!, JulieADriver, Sep-28-03, 01:32 PM, (15) RE: objects: please please help!, PCrail, Sep-28-03, 04:24 PM, (16) RE: objects: please please help!, Wulf_9, Sep-28-03, 04:44 PM, (17) RE: objects: please please help!, mailer_diablo, Sep-29-03, 11:38 AM, (23) RE: objects: please please help!, robertg, Sep-30-03, 08:02 AM, (24) RE: objects: please please help!, Tim Frost, Sep-30-03, 08:43 AM, (25) RE: objects: please please help!, techno79, Sep-30-03, 09:50 AM, (26) RE: objects: please please help!, Stooopid_person, Sep-30-03, 09:55 AM, (27) RE: objects: please please help!, mailer_diablo, Sep-30-03, 11:08 AM, (28) RE: objects: please please help!, smikes, Sep-30-03, 05:07 PM, (29) RE: objects: please please help!, NathanWhitington, Oct-01-03, 08:47 AM, (30) RE: objects: please please help!, Technical Numpty, Oct-01-03, 09:00 AM, (31) RE: objects: please please help!, mailer_diablo, Oct-01-03, 12:00 PM, (33) RE: objects: please please help!, Routemaster J, Oct-01-03, 12:22 PM, (34) RE: objects: please please help!, Stooopid_person, Oct-01-03, 09:11 AM, (32) RE: objects: please please help!, robertg, Oct-01-03, 10:00 PM, (35) RE: objects: please please help!, NathanWhitington, Oct-02-03, 03:07 AM, (36) RE: objects: please please help!, TomBeevers2000, Oct-02-03, 11:40 AM, (37) RE: objects: please please help!, robertg, Oct-02-03, 12:08 PM, (38) RE: objects: please please help!, TomBeevers2000, Oct-02-03, 12:23 PM, (39)

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What do you need help with? It took me a few weeks to get my first object to look decent for my route I'm doing, now I try to get at least one complex(or non-complex) one a day. Once you get it the first time it get's easier(creative skill is another issue).Another tip I found that helps me is, if i'm doing an object that's say a square, when your doing the sides, pretend the Z coordinate is the X, just as if your going from left to right. Flip the numbers. Hope that makes sense.

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just with a few objects, or can someone teach me to make it much esier?

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I think the problem with object tutorials is how they seem to be made on one level. There isn't a step by step beginners, through advanced guides. They didn't seem to do all that much for me at first until I really grasped the basics, now they are becoming more useful all the time.If i'm actually capable in making an object you need(20-80 chance), maybe I'll try to do a step by step of what I did. To me that is the biggest obstacle.

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>There isn't a step by step
>beginners, through advanced guides.Have you tried my Guide to build BVE graphic objects in Word format (English version) at http://web.tiscali.it/lcartello/utilities.html ?Have you tried Matsumura's structure tutorial at
http://www.excite.co.jp/world/url/?wb_url=www.hi-net.zaq.ne.jp/seiun/bvetut/&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2 ?
Shenery - click on "Lecture start"Luigi Cartello
http://bve.altervista.org/
http://web.tiscali.it/lcartello/

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I'm actually using your guide right now, it's working wonders to get me to switch to .csv.
I didn't know about the latter, I'm going to take a look at it thanks.What I mean is, a guide that states the obvious, as if on a 3rd grade level. Start doing a square, front side, then do the left side, etc. Granted it is on the side of teaching basic geometry, but if you've never used it practically, or it's been awhile, i can see how it's hard to get the x's and z's straight in your head. Until you get the hang of it.
And drawing it on paper helps a lot too.
Once you know it, it should come naturally though.

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Very basic explications (I learnt object's ABC there) are on Alfred Barten's site at http://alfredbarten.com/In his "BVE Works" there is a mine of informations! ... It may be that some arguments are a little hidden, but it's a pleasure to read the full site. By example, have a look at this page:
http://alfredbarten.com/BVE_pro3.htmlLuigi Cartello
http://bve.altervista.org/
http://web.tiscali.it/lcartello/

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Hi James!!What sorts of objects are we talking about here? Buildings, track, trains, infrastructure? I'd love to help in any way I can, but I'm just a hobbyist so don't want to commit to something I can't deliver.If it helps, try making a "low res" version first to see how it looks in rough. If it sucks, you should at least be able to see where it would need to be improved and get some ideas about how to achieve it. I did this with a train object once which looked so bad compared to the real thing that I just scrapped it and started all over again.I find trial and error works well for me, but sketching stuff out on graph paper is also useful if it's particularly complicated. The main thing is just to stick at it. I started off making train objects that looked like skips, but now I'm in the middle of hand coding some scissor crossings for my current project.On an admin note, if you are hand coding a complex object straight into a text editor like Wordpad it might be helpful to label each block of code so that you know what it relates to (e.g. ";Front" or ";Roof").HTH, otherwise PM me.Technical Numpty

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Just curious:Being that the measurements of BVE object code are expressed in meteres (and fractions of a meter), has anyone (who has successfully coded objects and placed them into a route) found that the measurements produce objects that scale properly when displayed in BVE?In other words, if you know the measurements of, say, a building, and you construct a BVE object using those measurements without scaling up or down, will the result appear at a realistic size once placed into a route? (just trying to spark some more experimentation with the object builder)---PCJ

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Hi PCJ,Not entirely sure what you're driving at.I'm still a bit new to all this but, if you produce a building object using the actual measurements, I see no reason why it should appear any different in BVE itself. Obviously you would need to make sure that the object is placed the correct distance away from Track 0, but that should go without saying.It's the old b3ta joke again. One more time; "These objects are small, but those are far away". Technical Numpty

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If you are talking about scale of the route as a whole, then that would depend on whether the rest of the route is to proper proportions.As far as I have found, providing the whole area of the route is to the same scale then some pretty good effects can be achievedHTH

Chris H
------------------------
Ramsbury Route for BVE
www.freewebs.com/ramsburyBVE/index.htm

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I would be willing to produce some objects for you if you want. Just I cannot do too many at once, its hard enough finding time to do uni work, my route and have a social life anyway.Let me know what you were after.

Chris H
------------------------
Ramsbury Route for BVE
www.freewebs.com/ramsburyBVE/index.htm

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Although you may think of me as quite a good object builder, most of the time I still copy and paste a ground object and alter the dimensions! And yes a graph pad helps, immensley.--
Tom Beevers
http://brj.rr.nu

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>Although you may think of me as quite a good object builder,
>most of the time I still copy and paste a ground object and
>alter the dimensions! And yes a graph pad helps, immensley.
>
>--
>Tom Beevers
>http://brj.rr.nu
Well, IMHO that doesn't mean a lot... surely all the marks go on the final product. So yes, you are a good object builder Tom.

Chris H
------------------------
Ramsbury Route for BVE
www.freewebs.com/ramsburyBVE/index.htm

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well if anyone cannhelp me make a Vanding machine and those new GWR green Dot Matrix things.....

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you mean like a snack or soda machine?
*thinks, that would be a good idea *Does anybody have or know of any freeware tree's, for a wooded area or even palm trees. Best I can do is make a bush(my scanner apparently can't scan a decent tree off of a picture).

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soda coke ones yeah

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That's simple. If you have the basic concept of objects, just make a box, and put textures on the sides. You can draw those.Honestly, you wanna know how I learned how to build objects?I took a simple object, I.E. a box, and played with the coordinates ONE AT A TIME, changing values of 1 to 2, etc, and reloaded in strview every time I made a change. Eventually I got the picture.It's very simple. The coordinates are the same as BVE routes.You put a freeobj in a route, right? What do you have? .freeobj y0;x1;x2;x3;x4,y0=track index. If you don't know that, go learn how to make a route. Though it isn't neccesary, it will help a lot.
x1=freeobj index. only important for adding it into a route.
x2=x-axis distance. this will place the center of the object x.x meters to the right or the left from the edge of the center of track 0
x3=y-axis distance. this will place the center of the object x.x meters above or below the center of track 0Basically, objects have the x and y axes the same as above, and a z axis, which is the same as the distance markings in BVE:10000
10025
10050
...etcIt can go down to the ten thousandth of a meter I believe. So 0.001. Pretty precise.It's really very similar in process, the hard part for me was understanding faces and textures. If I've shed even an INKLING of light on that, I've done at least some of my job! As for textures and faces... I'm too tired to even attempt explaining it ATM. Perhaps tommorow, or someone else can help out. I do a lot of what Tom Beevers does, copy and paste for textures. I use mostly four-sided faces so it makes things pretty simple.Once you have the code down, you can make literally huge and extremely complex objects, like my T180A objects (some have over 400 vertices) and my SP 5623 object, which has about 200. This is ONLY advisable if there are never going to be lots and lots together, such as trees. Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:

The Union Atlantic Railroad: Your stuff's important!

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>Basically, objects have the x and y axes the same as above,
>and a z axis, which is the same as the distance markings in
>BVE:
>
>10000
>10025
>10050
>...etc
>
>It can go down to the ten thousandth of a meter I believe.
>So 0.001. Pretty precise. Are yo utalking about the route file or the object file? The route file only lets you have whole numbers.

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I'm referring to the routefile with10000
10025
10050
...etc...but the object file with 0.001m. Sorry for any confusion.Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:

The Union Atlantic Railroad: Your stuff's important!

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B3D Object Builder v1.4
http://jvs.ru/bve/index_e.html

Julie Anne Driver
julieanne.driver@verizon.net

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dont exist, i get 'page cannot be found'

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Yes it does... try another browser Saxon Locomotive Works - "The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer"http://www.zodiac-infosystems.co.uk/rail/bve

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-03 AT 11:43 AM (EDT)

If you are just having trouble with coordinates, perhaps this summarized "Completely Stooopid Guide to Coordinates" would help :1. Grab a piece of graph paper.Draw the graph with two lines, as shown in the first diagram.Replace the words 'x Min' to '-x' (negative X), 'Y min' to '-y'. Basically negative x value is the left half of the graph (before the vertical line you draw) and vice-versa, and negative y value is bottom half of the graph and vice-versa. (after the horizontal line you draw)You may want to practice on coordinates! Coordinates are written in (x,y)Try marking points (-3,5), (0,0) and (2,3). If you get it right, when you join the points it should form a triangle on the top half of the graph.2. Poke a pencil through the graph at (0,0) (The intersection of the two lines)The pencil basically is the z axis. Anything above the graph paper physically is a positive z value, anything below negative z value. Refer to diagram 2.Nothing has changed for x and y axis, it remains the same. The graph paper is probably rotated, but with you own graph and pencil, you should figure things out very soon.Now it should be self-explanatory.Enjoy!!

http://koti.mbnet.fi/rogorox/

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>If you are just having trouble with coordinates, perhaps
>this summarized "Completely Stooopid Guide to Coordinates"
>would help :
>
>1. Grab a piece of graph paper.
>
>Draw the graph with two lines, as shown in the first
>diagram.
>
>Replace the words 'x Min' to '-x' (negative X), 'Y min' to
>'-y'. Basically negative x value is the left half of the
>graph (before the vertical line you draw) and vice-versa,
>and negative y value is bottom half of the graph and
>vice-versa. (after the horizontal line you draw)
>
>You may want to practice on coordinates! Coordinates are
>written in (x,y)
>
>Try marking points (-3,5), (0,0) and (2,3). If you get it
>right, when you join the points it should form a triangle on
>the top half of the graph.
>
>2. Poke a pencil through the graph at (0,0) (The
>intersection of the two lines)
>
>The pencil basically is the z axis. Anything above the graph
>paper physically is a positive z value, anything below
>negative z value. Refer to diagram 2.
>
>Nothing has changed for x and y axis, it remains the same.
>The graph paper is probably rotated, but with you own graph
>and pencil, you should figure things out very soon.
>
>Now it should be self-explanatory.
>
>Enjoy!! Great way to start and learn this stuff! Can I just take it a bit further?For BVE model building, you need to rotate those axes so that Y is up/down and Z is forward/back.I see it like this...X - Width (right/left)
Y - Height (up/down)
Z - Depth (forward/back)It uses the 'left hand coordinates' system. To determine which side of the origin is positive...- make a fist with the left hand
- extend the index finger and point
- extend the thumb upwards
- extend the middle finger until it's at 90 degrees to the index fingerAnd that's where the positive values on X, Y and Z are - Up, Right and Forward, respectively. Robert

-----
http://www.scotrailsim.co.uk
http://www.bvetrains.co.uk

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Haha... good analogy Robert!!It could be the not-so-secret handshake of people who either:a. know how to build objects
or
b. are learning how to build objectsOf course... there's no one within 2500 miles of me to "shake" hands with... so there goes that idea! Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:

The Union Atlantic Railroad: Your stuff's important!

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I think I have a good mental device I figured out that works on boxy objects, such as a vending machine. I, of course, like to start at 0,0,0 for simplicity, but the front side will always have the z as zero let's say.
so
x,y,0
x is width, from left to right, y is hight from bottom up
so I got 0,0,0
then 0,height of unit,0
then width of unit, height of unit, 0
and width of unit,0(back to ground), 0What makes this all easy is, for the left side, all x's are now zero instead of z, and for all the z's you simply plug in the x varible(with a little change for rectangles).
Left is done, exact same thing for the right now, you can copy and paste the left side of the object and substitute the x for the higher number of the width(ie if the box was 4 meters wide, all x's are 4).The back(if you need one for that matter) is all the numbers you've already used. You can pretty much cut and paste the front side of the box, and change out all the z value's from 0, to whatever the higher value you gave for the left/right segments on Z.That should it. Only extra thing is when you do the face or addface statements, you may need to change the values from 0,1,2,3 to 3,2,1,0 which is the case for the back segment that I just did. But you can do trial and error on that real easy.That's the true idiots easy guide to making a box. Good luck with the textures though, I usually cut and paste that.Do I need to do an example?

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-03 AT 09:56 AM (EDT)

>That should it. Only extra thing is when you do the face or
>addface statements, you may need to change the values from
>0,1,2,3 to 3,2,1,0 which is the case for the back segment
>that I just did. But you can do trial and error on that
>real easy. You might need "Addface,3,2,0,1,", etc. as well, depending on how you arrange the vertices.

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-03 AT 11:15 AM (EDT)

>
>For BVE model building, you need to rotate those axes so
>that Y is up/down and Z is forward/back.
>
>I see it like this...
>
>X - Width (right/left)
>Y - Height (up/down)
>Z - Depth (forward/back)
>Ah, so in simple terms, just rotate and hold the graph paper with the pencil such that the paper is facing you (portrait and upright of course, x axis remains horizontal and y axis vertical), and the pencil is pointing away (or directly at, but at your own risk!) from you? It can be a bit confusing, but with the graph paper and pencil I guess hopefully the axes could be figured out more easily.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/rogorox/

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Get Smace's axis-object from the forum library and use it with structure viewer.It is very good for visualizing axes and seeing what your building.

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>It uses the 'left hand coordinates' system. To determine
>which side of the origin is positive...
>
>- make a fist with the left hand
>- extend the index finger and point
>- extend the thumb upwards
>- extend the middle finger until it's at 90 degrees to the
>index finger
>
>And that's where the positive values on X, Y and Z are - Up,
>Right and Forward, respectively.
>
>Robert Isn't that like the left/right hand rules for field/current/motion in an electric motor?

--
Nathan Whitington <><

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Aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! I never understood that at school, and I still don't understand it now.Please stop.Technical Numpty

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>
>Isn't that like the left/right hand rules for
>field/current/motion in an electric motor? Fleming's Left Hand Rule. It's at GCSE/GCE level, so it's not quite easy to understand.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/rogorox/

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Yup, As a Physcist at University I can confirm that, there is also a Right Hand rule, and Lenz's Law, Bio Savart law.... Excuse the academic outburst

Joshim,
currently constructing the DLR Route for BVE & Oxford Street BUS ROUTE! Check out my website http://joshimsbveroutes.gamehorizons.net/

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>Isn't that like the left/right hand rules for
>field/current/motion in an electric motor? Magnetic field. As in which is North and South pole of a piece of metal, coiled around by wires to make an electromagnet.

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-01-03 AT 10:02 PM (EDT)

mailer_diablo wrote:>Ah, so in simple terms, just rotate and hold the graph paper
>with the pencil such that the paper is facing you (portrait
>and upright of course, x axis remains horizontal and y axis
>vertical), and the pencil is pointing away (or directly at, but
>at your own risk!) from you? Exactly! That's the left hand coordinate system, with the pencil pointing away from you! >It can be a bit confusing, but with the graph paper and pencil
>I guess hopefully the axes could be figured out more easilyAbsolutely! Good idea! smikes wrote:>Get Smace's axis-object from the forum library and use it
>with structure viewer.It is very good for visualizing axes
>and seeing what your building.Didn't know that was available! Excellent! NathanWhitington wrote:"Isn't that like the left/right hand rules for field/current/motion in an electric motor?"Yep, as the OP already pointed out, it's just like Flemings left hand rule. Maybe that's where the originator got the idea (I mean the 3D modeller I got that from! ). Robert

-----
http://www.scotrailsim.co.uk
http://www.bvetrains.co.uk

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>mailer_diablo wrote:
>
>>Ah, so in simple terms, just rotate and hold the graph paper
>>with the pencil such that the paper is facing you (portrait
>>and upright of course, x axis remains horizontal and y axis
>>vertical), and the pencil is pointing away (or directly at, but
>>at your own risk!) from you?
>
>Exactly! That's the left hand coordinate system, with the
>pencil pointing away from you!
>
>>It can be a bit confusing, but with the graph paper and pencil
>>I guess hopefully the axes could be figured out more easily
>
>Absolutely! Good idea!
>
>smikes wrote:
>
>>Get Smace's axis-object from the forum library and use it
>>with structure viewer.It is very good for visualizing axes
>>and seeing what your building.
>
>Didn't know that was available! Excellent!
>
>NathanWhitington wrote:
>
>"Isn't that like the left/right hand rules for
>field/current/motion in an electric motor?"
>
>Yep, as the OP already pointed out, it's just like Flemings
>left hand rule. Maybe that's where the originator got the
>idea (I mean the 3D modeller I got that from! ).
>
>Robert Are you an engineer Robert, if so could you perhaps drop me an email..cheers.

--
Nathan Whitington <><

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I think it said Electrician on TrainSimGallery.--
Tom Beevers
http://brj.rr.nu

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>I think it said Electrician on TrainSimGallery.
>No it did not!! Will do, Nathan, as soon as I get the chance! Robert

-----
http://www.scotrailsim.co.uk
http://www.bvetrains.co.uk

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My memory fails me possibly :-$.--
Tom Beevers
http://brj.rr.nu

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