Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes

(No Light bulb Icon so it gets a General one)I note that Route Builder is now releasedTherefore I'd like to release some ideas to
the BVE community in the hope that 'somebody'
somewhere will want to produce them (I'd like to say all of these done well as routes
at some point.)Taken from a page Wulf was kind enough to host at:
http://www.zodiac-infosystems.co.uk/rail/bve/2mc-refs.html
(The full page also has 3 slightly more expanded scenarios
as well as list of Tourist and popular Narrow Gauge lines,
railways, tramways and other There are more ideas on the 2MC frontpage as well.)The ideas
Toytown Express
- Hornby 'O' tinplate running like clockwork.
The German contingent might like to consider
a Marklin/LGB route and the US crowd (is there one)
something based on whatever the well known brand in
the US is.. I also heard one authour express an intrest in
a certain leading construction toy... Space Track : A Monorail in some distant Starport Perhaps? This came out of a posting entitled BVE3545 on the BVE
forum at Crotrainz and was an intention to allow a 'space'
themed sci-fi route.Alternativly, you could go back to Jules Verne, H.G Wells Melier
and others to produce a route based on sci-fi and space themes..
(For some reason I've got this picture of an ET monster that likes
choclate in my head... Perhaps someone can explain?)The Ghost Train : Mountainous scenery and some su-prises!
This is a route whose atmosphere could be very differnt
depending on where it set and where the developers come fromJust because it says Ghost Train means that it has to
the spirits departed.. the Ghost could be any kind of
play on words..For example the BrockenBhan(?) Narrow Guage route in Germany
could be and have'ghosts' on it for all manner of reasons
owing to it's proximity to the former
East German border. It is also apparently close to a location
that is rumored to have had supernatural connections..
(Perhaps one of the Destuche speaking readers could explain
further, or make a bid for the routes development )It is almost a lucky coincidence that rural narrow gauge in
Eastern and Central Europe also has scenery that is Hollywood
'Transilvaniya'From a Historical perspective there are plenty of genuine 'Ghost'
trains that could done as BVE routes. Espcially if you look at
periods of major conflict or unrest.HOWEVER THERE ARE SOME TYPES OF TRAIN FROM HISTORY THAT SHOULD
NEVER BE TRIVALISED BY VIRTUE OF TRAIN-SIM ROUTE.A very intresting 'Ghost' train route might be one of the
so called Secret subways that the former USSR is alleged to have
built.Then of course there's the Tigris Bank Subway (see discusions
on misc.transport.urban-transit newsgroup)
Western : Steam hauled, 1067 Gauge... Watch out for Bandits!! Well I know that the Whole Rio Grande railroad isn't possible
in BVE but a Western Style route is. I've already heard someone here say there considering doing
older routes in New England. Perhpas in Maine as well
(which could link back to the Ghost Train heading...<1> )If you can get permission from Steve Green then an 1890 version
of Desert Frieght is also a possibility.Underwater & Submarine railways: I can think of a few in Myst. Industrial 2ft like the Leighton Buzzard Railway..
Non Fictional, but Industrail line are something that
has not yet been seen in BVE.Of course there could also be 'freight' lines like
the Ebbw Vale line in South Wales that are essentialy
Industrial in nature.The Deep Water ring main in London, and the Channel Tunell
are also areas of inspiration as these would have had
quite extensive 'industrial' systems during there constrcution.
The Far Tottering & Oyster Creek
Which featured at the Festival of Britain.
For those reading this group that may be unaware
of this line. It was essentialy a lovingly crafted
fictional line that had all the eccentricities of
a remote rual branch line of the 40's and 50's.
Articles and cartoons about it were feature in Punch
(a popular humorus magazine) and a themed line based
on these accounts was built for the Pleaure Gardens at
Batersea for the Festival of Britan..It has nice touches like signs that ominusly
read 'DO NOT! BY ORDER' and 'Please do not feed the
Bats' outside a tunnel..The Locos themselves are quite odd.As I am obviosuly too young to have seen the Festival
of Britan line and that the Punch version only exists
on Paper. I'd really like to see this route made for
BVE complete with all it's eccentricities...(Of course if anyone also intrestd in biding for t
he Buglleskully and Ballycork extension, or Elstree
South- H***s E*d and beyond..<2> )The Cheese-stop and mousehole : Mousehoule tunnels and mice driving trains. Stranger things have happened! The Treetop and Illumination Railway : A railway in the treetops for the litte people that live there? 'Vicarstown to Farquhar' : I'll leave you to work out where or what it is.. The GPO Railway/MailRail : Do the loco panel as a CCTV view and pretend it's remote operation?
'Bella-Venti-Express' : A narrow guage freight for a vineyard?
Well if Trainz can have the beer train!
( Suggested by the fact that Google found a vineyard called the Boursa Valley Estate when I once did a search for BVE routes |-) ) Maybe a possible for our Italitan correspondent.'Burton on Bass' : Standard Guage Industrial,
but definitely not a disorganised p*ss up!. For the benefit of non-UK readers-
At some time in the past a town called Burton Upon Trent
was a major industrial centre for brewing. This included
the brewrey for a well known brand called Bass.
As well as major industrial works there was also a
farily extsnive railway network within the town in
order to move both the raw mwaterials and finshed
product.However, brewing in the UK at the time of Burton's
heyday was not only an industrial process but a
highly skilled art and trade. Britsh brewing of
the period may be seen as old-fashioned but it
had a certain charcter when compared to modern
scientifc mega-brew complexs that look more like
chemicla plants than a conventional factory.BTW Tom I hope you have plans to put in Northenville's
local Ale producers somewhere on Route 73. After all
the Tramcar Inn's got to get from somwhere and this
is pre modern mega brewing.. Might see a brewers
drey somewhere on route in full NAB reagalia?Do we also get some humor from the tram conductor?
(Apparently one bus/tram route in London an estate in Burnt
Oak was reffered to as 'Little Moscow' owing to the political
views of it's residents.. Another location was refered
referd to as the 'Diseasel Depot'. It was in reality the stop
for the Medical Reaserch labs ! )A nice one might be "Mind your 'eads" as
the tram goes into the THS tunnel
'O-Rileys mine/AGD Mining' : A Mine Tramway (could be modern or historical)
'Drax Pit Deep' : Mine Tramway but for coal (modern)
Crossrail : Paddington-> Liverpool St but mainline gauge..
Fleet Phase II : Unbuilt but BVE lets you drive it!.
'Blackpool Nights': Along the premande in a tram with the illuminations on. Hmm..
'CSLR' : Northern Line in 1890 and sepia tone!
and many others... BTW if you want expansion on these Ideas I'd be more
than happy to provide it... Alex<1> A good proprtion of Hollywood films that involve
traditional Ghost story elements always seem to be set
somewhere in Maine..<2> Hobbs End. But the idea I was thinking of was NOT
as associated with Andrew Kier as you might think.

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RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., alex_farlie, Apr-23-03, 12:03 PM, (1) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., Tim Frost, Apr-23-03, 12:26 PM, (2) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., alex_farlie, Apr-23-03, 01:21 PM, (3) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., smace, Apr-23-03, 08:46 PM, (4) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., ChristopherT, Apr-23-03, 09:07 PM, (5) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., smace, Apr-23-03, 09:25 PM, (6) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., ChristopherT, Apr-23-03, 10:36 PM, (7) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., smikes, Apr-24-03, 05:26 PM, (8) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., Stooopid_person, Apr-25-03, 06:35 AM, (9) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., Piccadilly_Line, Apr-25-03, 10:35 AM, (10) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., alex_farlie, Apr-25-03, 05:11 PM, (11) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., smace, Apr-26-03, 00:54 AM, (12) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., Stooopid_person, Apr-26-03, 06:01 AM, (13) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., smace, Apr-26-03, 09:32 AM, (14) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., Stooopid_person, Apr-26-03, 11:18 AM, (17) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., alex_farlie, Apr-26-03, 10:34 AM, (15) RE: Some ideas for 'unconventional' routes..., alex_farlie, Apr-26-03, 10:56 AM, (16)

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This is not a 'thread bumper' as I had some
other ideas..Like the Monastic Funicluar Tramway thats was
mentioned in an earlier thread..Then theres the BVE Troleybus routes under consideration..
(After all BVE can do anything that runs on a 'fixed' track!)I'd even suggested (as a joke)
attempting a section of the Grand Union
Canal in BVE at say 5mph
(I'd love to see somone try though )Alex

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The 'popular' large-scale (O, G scales IIRC) train company in the US is Lionel, although Marklin and LGB have a rather large following here as well.Everyone seems to be stuck in a rut here... routebuilder really opens up the possibilities for routes IMHO. I can't say that my routes are all that original but they're not LUL or NYCTA... or TTC, so hey, who cares! Don't get me wrong, I love routes from the UK... but we could use some really good real or fictional routes set in the US...Despite my .co.uk domain name NVTA is not UK based... or US based... its a whole other continent (undiscovered as of yet, kind of like Dinotopia (which would make a good route also, I might add, dinosaurs stomping about everywhere, anyone who doesn't know what I'm babbling about, PM me and I'll tell you at length))nvta.org, nvta.com, and nvta.net were all taken so I rather settled on a UK domain, not that it really matters. I wasn't particularly excited by the idea of using a .biz or .info domain either! But why aren't there underwater routes? I'm with Alex, where's the Toytown Express?? I'd also love to see a B&W steam-hauled route or two. It's perfectly feasible as Alex has said before. Brings to mind the famed photographer O. Winston Link, surely. (thank you Chris (not anyone from the forum but he deserves thanks just the same) for the lovely Xmas gift )And before anyone goes finger-pointing that I'm asking for things and doing nothing, I've got PLENTY on my plate with NVTA alone and I'm not going to be sidetracked until all the routes are done unless it's a project that someone else starts and I just can't pass up. Even then I won't start anything new of my own until the NVTA saga is complete... and that's final! My other deterrant to finger pointing is that I'm only suggesting!Do whatever you like... I'll still drive it... but don't feel bound to a Diesel-Steam-Electric two-railed route... the possibilities of BVE are really quite endless.Thank you Mackoy!! Do him proud!Note: After previewing this post I realized I have used a huge number of smilies! I think thats a record for me! Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:
http://nvta.co.uk

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>The 'popular' large-scale (O, G scales IIRC) train company
>in the US is Lionel, although Marklin and LGB have a rather
>large following here as well.
>
>Everyone seems to be stuck in a rut here... routebuilder
>really opens up the possibilities for routes IMHO. I can't
>say that my routes are all that original but they're not LUL
>or NYCTA... or TTC, so hey, who cares!
>That's why I posted... I'd like to see something that throws
the rule book out the window.My other readson for posting was that these ideas were previosuly
on the Crotrans forum and as such wouldn't be seen unless I
reposted them.Don't worry I'm sure I can come up with other ideas..>Don't get me wrong, I love routes from the UK... but we
>could use some really good real or fictional routes set in
>the US...
>And Like I said the Desert Fireght could be taken back a few
years to 'pioneer' territory... >Despite my .co.uk domain name NVTA is not UK based... or US
>based... its a whole other continent (undiscovered as of
>yet, kind of like Dinotopia (which would make a good
>route also, I might add, dinosaurs stomping about
>everywhere, anyone who doesn't know what I'm babbling about,
>PM me and I'll tell you at length))
>Dinosouar railways(?).. I thought that was FNW<1>
But I'll have to say Tim it wasn't something I'd thoguht of!Note- Weren't the vehicles in Juriassic Park on a kind
of guided Track?>But why aren't there underwater routes? I'm with Alex,
>where's the Toytown Express??
>Exaclty, It so much of a classic images that I'm suprised
it HASN't been done yet.. Much like Hornby,Marklin, LGB or
Lionel...
>I'd also love to see a B&W steam-hauled route or two. It's
>perfectly feasible as Alex has said before. Yeah, I'm sure I posted a whole peice on Crotrainz concerning
color ideas. BTW it's not just as simple as applying a
color filter to some textures... It needs careful invetsigation
and application. In many ways making a route is simmilar to not only making
a static picture but trying to make a film as well. Changing
lighting is just as imporatnt as the one time snapshot in Track
viewer..Tim is well placed to comment given his photgraphic experience
and I ask him to expand further and comment on what I am about
to say. ( I may also of course get some things wrong )In terms of coloring..Early films and photogrpahs (up until 1914 at least) may have
a sepia tone. This isn't the same as the ouput of a B/W filter in
photshop shifted as there are sutble tonal differnces in the spectrum.B/W Features differ from B/W newsreel as often the fature films
are made on higher quailty film and thus have greater tonal depth
as well as less granularity and 'noise'. Another point to consider
with Black and white is that light(and it's control) plays a far greater role than in conventional color photography..
Just look at any Oscar winner.. (I do concede that
colour photgraphy can also depned on well thought out lighting.)The post war period(ie 1945 onward) brings more widespread
color film to the world.
However, there were competing processes and of course the
color system used in Kodak 8mm and 16mm film which for some reason
was Favoured by British Transport Films and Uk enthusaiats
alike from the 1950's and 1960's onward.
(There are also of course various experimental color systems
that were only ever used on one film ,studio or individual.)From 1980 onwards, Video production als has an impact on
the color process and it is also true that depth of field
effects are 'different' when using film compared to video.
In fact some major filimng for TV is now done on film as
opossed to Video for precisely this reason (to get the
additonal DoF effects.). True DoF FX are byeond the BVE engine AFIAK, but fogs
can be added in a simple manner. However it's not just conventional fog they have been used for.
A sandstorm in Egypt and 'protal-dazzle' have also used fog commands
for special effects.The technique of using 'black' fog for night is also by know a well
known technique. However setting up the night is only half the issue,
There's the route lights, headlamps of trains and texture modifcations
to consider as well..Just becaue you wnat Graduated Light effects (GLX) does not mean
you only use fog commands in a route.'Weather' also plays a role... Whilst MSTS and Trainz can do this
on auto. The fact that Bve doesen't gives far greater flexibilty.
The group here presuambly knows about Kurrajong and the FPX (Faked
precpitaion effects(BTW The area of GLX and FPX was something that I was defintly
going to ask the Route Builder team about including in 2.0.
Setting up a 'storm' path and type would be very nice for
power users. if RB could support BRR routes even better.)'Portal' dazzle is another area that needs consideration
as well as tunnels and 'neon' glare over stations
on night routes (see X-City South .)BTW If someone was willing to attempt an 'expert'
guide (woodbridge?) on these type of issues I'd be
pleased. They are relevant to Trainz, MSTS and other
sims just as much as to BVE.> Brings to mind
>the famed photographer O. Winston Link, surely. (thank you
>Chris (not anyone from the forum but he deserves thanks just
>the same) for the lovely Xmas gift )
>In the UK a famous name in connection with Railway films and
Photgraphy is Ivo Peters, who amongst other things made a fairly
complete record of the last Steam on the Sommerset and Dorest>My other deterrant to finger pointing is that I'm only
>suggesting!
>So was I.>Do whatever you like... I'll still drive it... but don't
>feel bound to a Diesel-Steam-Electric two-railed route...
>the possibilities of BVE are really quite endless.
>We've already had Trams, Light Rail, Monorail
Maglevs and even a Guided-bus route
proposed... Let's push what Bve can do..
>Thank you Mackoy!! Do him proud!
>
>Note: After previewing this post I realized I have used a
>huge number of smilies! I think thats a record for me!
>
Thanks. Comments and bids still accepted!
Alex<1> In joke for UK readers, in more ways than one..

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Two that might qualify for unconventional routes.
They are both back burner projects for when I am bored.
The MV Marlin and her route will be an entry in the 2 mile challange. The Starship is just for fun and laughs and a reason to use all those old Star Trek sound bites that are around.

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That MV Marlin is just plain cool! I really like that. Christopher

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> That MV Marlin is just plain cool! I really like that. I do to. She handles well, but needs some work. I needs a Scottish voice for the engineer and some work in the Bridge, but it is getting there.

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Reminds me of that new Billy Joel tune...'The Downeaster "Alexa"',
hmmmm. Christopher

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How about a roller coaster set in a carnival with a big tent,a ferris wheel,etc.You could record the sounds while riding one with screams and all.It would be a short but a wild ride!Which leads me to wondering-is it possible to code BVE in a way that once started the ride would play out without further control?Also, I like an underwater cruise idea as a real challenge for object making and placement.

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>Which leads me to wondering-is it possible to code
>BVE in a way that once started the ride would play out
>without further control?In real roller coaster, at the starting, there is a chain thing which pulls the cars up to the top. Then once it goes down, it would be coasting all along! So, there isn't a need for a power in BVE if there are more down than ups!

------My favourite LUL train------

HAPPY NOW? It's not moving anymore.
It's still the same train but in another livery, that's all.

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Gravity powered (Scarborough?) would be possible, steep down slope with no power and loads of brakes. Oh dammit, Alex you've done it again!--
Tom Beevers
http://brj.rr.nu

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>Gravity powered (Scarborough?) would be possible, steep down
>slope with no power and loads of brakes. Oh dammit, Alex
>you've done it again!
>
>--
>Tom Beevers
>http://brj.rr.nu What do you mean Tom? Have I been giving your ideas recently? Alex

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>How about a roller coaster set in a carnival with a big
>tent,a ferris wheel,etc.You could record the sounds while
>riding one with screams and all.It would be a short but a
>wild ride!Which leads me to wondering-is it possible to code
>BVE in a way that once started the ride would play out
>without further controlYes to all of your questions. I used Route builder to create the basic route, placed the pitch commands by hand, put in a few random objects and it works. Release the brakes and the train runs to the end and almost stops by itself. Final brakes are the ride operatorators job. Could adjust the pitch angles for any given loco or train ( I think).
Go ride a coaster and get the sounds, the rest is very possible.

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>Yes to all of your questions. I used Route builder to
>create the basic route, placed the pitch commands by hand,
>put in a few random objects and it works. Release the
>brakes and the train runs to the end and almost stops by
>itself. Final brakes are the ride operatorators job. Could
>adjust the pitch angles for any given loco or train ( I
>think). Remember, in Crotrainz, I made a route with the pitch at -7000?

------My favourite LUL train------

HAPPY NOW? It's not moving anymore.
It's still the same train but in another livery, that's all.

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>Remember, in Crotrainz, I made a route with the pitch at
>-7000?
I was not a Crotrainz when you did, but I remember the comment from a thread about a gravity powered roman underground. You said something like 300 KPH and you had to adjusst the brakes to some very high level. That comment is one of the reasons I tried to make the coaster. Did you ever get your train to stop?

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>
>>Remember, in Crotrainz, I made a route with the pitch at
>>-7000?
> I was not a Crotrainz when you did, but I remember the
>comment from a thread about a gravity powered roman
>underground. You said something like 300 KPH and you had to
>adjusst the brakes to some very high level. That comment is
>one of the reasons I tried to make the coaster. Did you
>ever get your train to stop? Here are the screenshots I posted at Crotrainz. The circles are where the bar saying how the train rocks is. Too bad it doesn't show in the screenshot.
Trying to brake

Trying to brake

Finally! The end of the downslope!

------My favourite LUL train------

HAPPY NOW? It's not moving anymore.
It's still the same train but in another livery, that's all.

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>>How about a roller coaster set in a carnival with a big
>>tent,a ferris wheel,etc.You could record the sounds while
>>riding one with screams and all.It would be a short but a
>>wild ride!Which leads me to wondering-is it possible to code
>>BVE in a way that once started the ride would play out
>>without further control
>
>Yes to all of your questions. I used Route builder to
>create the basic route, placed the pitch commands by hand,
>put in a few random objects and it works. Release the
>brakes and the train runs to the end and almost stops by
>itself. Final brakes are the ride operatorators job. Could
>adjust the pitch angles for any given loco or train ( I
>think).
> Go ride a coaster and get the sounds, the rest is very
>possible. Could you mail me off group? I think I may have an idea for you.How does doing a pelimanry version of the Nemo rollercoaster
at Elstree's Studio 9 park appeal?'Submarine' theming (which would tie into the undewater theming
someone else suggested.BTW To Whomever was working on the Boat trip..
Where is it intended to be? You said a Scots Enginner
so do we get a CalMac trip then?
(leaving from somewhere along the coast nearwhere
where the Sandymill line runs!?)Alex

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>>How about a roller coaster set in a carnival with a big
>>tent,a ferris wheel,etc.You could record the sounds while
>>riding one with screams and all.It would be a short but a
>>wild ride!Which leads me to wondering-is it possible to code
>>BVE in a way that once started the ride would play out
>>without further control
>
>Yes to all of your questions. I used Route builder to
>create the basic route, placed the pitch commands by hand,
>put in a few random objects and it works. Release the
>brakes and the train runs to the end and almost stops by
>itself. Final brakes are the ride operatorators job. Could
>adjust the pitch angles for any given loco or train ( I
>think). Or an ATS/ATC trip... Some costers I've been one have fairly
hefty auto braking devices. I wouldn't think it too
dificult to program such a trip into the coaster code..> Go ride a coaster and get the sounds, the rest is very
>possible. Hmm... In additon some coaster these days have additonal
soundtracks.. X-No Wayout(Tussad) and Space Mountain(Disney)
do.Hmmm and that leads to me another query...Can 'dark rides' be done using BVE and appropriate object placement?
(Bear in mind we've now got 2000 or so objects to play with..)
I'd think a reasonable Dark ride/Ghost Train for BVE would only
need about 300, if that..However the Sharp Curves and 25m scenry model may be a a problem
unless overscaling techniques are used..One thing that I'snt possible in BVE is a full 360 loop
or helix Unless someones a lot clever than I am!...AlexAlex

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