Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations

Just wonder if photography at rail stations are officially banned in the UK? I have tried taking photos at Moorgate yesterday for the study of the class 313 dual voltage stock and was caught by the station master, of Asian origin. He insisted that I must have permission with WAGN to do so. With so many TOCs in the UK and seems all have different rules and approaches to handle photography and rail researches, I am very uncertain regarding this. Myself was caught many times before by rail staff of Asian origin only in London and Manchester. Station Staff of British origin was generally very welcoming towards photographers or researchers. Would like to know if programmers out there working on their BVE projects were stopped in such situations as well. What is the solution to this? Please comment.Cheers
HongjianNotice: This post is not to prejudice any members of the forum of Asian origin but to clear up the photography and research issues encountered by myself on UK railways. Any offence towards Asian members is deeply regretted.

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RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Central trains, Dec-10-03, 02:57 AM, (1) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, francisoldfield, Dec-10-03, 03:49 AM, (2) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Mr Gizmo, Dec-10-03, 04:28 AM, (3) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, TomBoyRacer, Dec-10-03, 08:14 AM, (4) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, alex_farlie, Dec-10-03, 09:08 AM, (5) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Mr Gizmo, Dec-10-03, 10:38 AM, (6) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, damcox, Dec-10-03, 11:04 AM, (7) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, class104, Dec-10-03, 01:53 PM, (8) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, class104, Dec-10-03, 02:04 PM, (9) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, TomBeevers2000, Dec-10-03, 02:09 PM, (10) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, jsdickinson, Dec-10-03, 03:00 PM, (11) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, class104, Dec-10-03, 03:07 PM, (12) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Bill_Veloz, Dec-10-03, 03:28 PM, (13) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, hongjian, Dec-10-03, 06:08 PM, (14) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, NathanWhitington, Dec-11-03, 05:54 AM, (15) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Paul Jobber, Dec-11-03, 06:13 AM, (16) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Bill_Veloz, Dec-11-03, 02:34 PM, (17) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, R36 9346, Dec-11-03, 04:45 PM, (18) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, nickKiszczuk, Mar-23-04, 06:45 PM, (19) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Mr Gizmo, Mar-24-04, 04:20 AM, (20) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Central trains, Mar-24-04, 04:27 AM, (21) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Paul Jobber, Mar-24-04, 05:00 AM, (22) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, PkerUNO, Mar-24-04, 09:06 AM, (23) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, PCrail, Mar-24-04, 09:56 AM, (24) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, hongjian, Mar-24-04, 11:21 AM, (25) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, class104, Mar-24-04, 01:37 PM, (26) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, robertg, Mar-24-04, 03:01 PM, (27) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, PkerUNO, Mar-24-04, 03:07 PM, (28) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Thomas Corcoran, Mar-24-04, 05:49 PM, (29) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Paul Jobber, Mar-25-04, 04:28 AM, (30) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Paul Jobber, Mar-25-04, 04:47 AM, (31) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Stooopid_person, Mar-25-04, 09:03 AM, (32) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, PCrail, Mar-25-04, 09:56 AM, (33) RE: Photo Taking and Rail Researches at Stations, Paul Jobber, Mar-25-04, 10:18 AM, (34)

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-03 AT 02:57 AM (EST)

I went to Derby station without any one saying a word, but as for ant where else I dont know. I would like to take a trip up to manchester airport to do some photography at the station there, but if this would happen what a waste of money going up to there!!!http://mysite.freeserve.com/midland_bve

Please update links on your sites to the address above

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I do the same sort of thing here in my home stations of Portsmouth Hbr and Portsmouth & Southsea.I think they don't like it and in Portsmouth I have been stopped a couple of times by the security company tat South West Trains uses and told to stop taking a photographs.When I asked why I was told "you may be a terrorist trying to get photos of possible targets".The same happened when i went to all the london termini.Sorry can't really help with the legal side but i dont think they like it

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-03 AT 04:33 AM (EST)

francisoldfield is right.... there are to rules to remember when taking photos at stations...1 NO FLASH under any circumstances!2 The terrorism rules...My local station (cheltenham spa) dont seem to mind you taking photos, i know its ok at stafford, and ive never had a problem at birmingham new street... But in and around london im not really surprised, and also at airports id expect them to stop you as well. What i reccomend is that if its really something you want to do, simply write a letter to the station master (thats write not phone) they are more likely to be more forthcoming if you write them a polite letter, and if you get permission you can then go to the station and do whatever... and if you get stopped show them the letter.

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I asked the station master at grimsby town if i could take photos of the station for a model I was making, and he told me i needed to get permission from railtrack eastern zone Public relations at York.
Hmphh
I've been taking loads of shots for the ECML at doncaster and york, without any trouble whatsoever, but don't take that as gospel. I've never tried at BNS, but i have taken photos at derby many a time, even when the mail train is in. I find that with flourescent lighting you get poor results on my camera whether you use flash or not... but i really wouldn't use flash anyway.

How can you eat your pudding if you don't eat your meat?

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>I do the same sort of thing here in my home stations of
>Portsmouth Hbr and Portsmouth & Southsea.
>
>I think they don't like it and in Portsmouth I have been
>stopped a couple of times by the security company tat South
>West Trains uses and told to stop taking a photographs.
>
>When I asked why I was told "you may be a terrorist trying
>to get photos of possible targets".
>
>The same happened when i went to all the london termini.
>
>Sorry can't really help with the legal side but i dont think
>they like it Well... As long as it isn't photos of the S*******c R*****e
or W******d T*****l.It would seem that any railway infrastrcuture close to MOD /Army/RAF/RN propety is off limts in respect of photgrpahy
because of the Offical Secrets Act.I think SWT might be edgey about photgrpahs at Portsmouth because
it's a major naval centre."Terrorism" is a reason why airport stations are usally off limits.The concern about flash is on sfatey grounds, as a flash can potentialy dazzle railway staff.The rest of the time it depends on the rail staff and the phase of
the moon it seems. TOC's as other companies have an image to protect
and they sometime try to portect it a little too hard. Thus you get
the 'more than my job's worth to let you do that..' attitude. That said though, a polite request is usally a good idea these days.Alex

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AlexThe rumours surroundingWoodhead Tunnel being the strategic reserve are completely unfounded!... Woodhead tunnel is currently used by powergen to run 2 high voltage water cooled powerlines under the hills, the troughs for these power lines are 5 feet wide and they are suspended 3 feet off the floor..... so the chances of steam locomotives being stored in woodhead tunnel are about as remote as microsoft endorsing linux... further to that, if that was the case security and not to mention water proofing in the tunnel would have been way improoved then what it is now, at the moment any member of the public can approach either mouth, but are prevented entering the tunnel by a large steel grate.But i think you are probably right regarding portsmouth...

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Hi Guys,
My dad and I were found taking photos at London Victoria and a station attendant told us that we could not take photos of the Cathedrals Express and we were taking photos not of the trains but the bog rolled track. What would we do with pictures of track? Any Ideas? We were passengers on the steamer and were told "You can only take photos with a special lisence". We showed him the photos that we took on the digital camera and he said "Go and talk to Railtrack in the Customer Help Stand". They told us there is no policy against this at London Victoria and we were within our rights to be taking those photos.This also happened at Blackpool North when I was taking a photo of a 150-1, a 158 and the last Virgin 47 to visit the station and was literallty dragged off the platform. I had gone on the platform to take a photo and then board the train. What is the world coming too?Sincerely,
Damon Cox.

Damon Cox
http://the-siding.co.uk
http://www.virtual-rail.co.uk

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Hi.As I remember from earlier this year, Virgin Trains put out a statement saying that Trainspotters where welcome on their stations, as long as it didn't interfere with their operations. If I can find the email I will cut and paste it here. As for Blackpool North, I have no idea why they are fussy about photos. It maybe worth emailling First North Western to enquire if there is a rule against taking photos there. I know at Blackburn (another FNW station)There seems to be no problems there. In fact they normally have a laugh and a joke with you, and can be very helpfull in letting you know which loco is coming through on a WCML diversion.ATB
Carl

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Hi again.I was looking through the archives of one of the groups I am on, and I came across an email which was sent to me after asking about where is best to take photos of EMUs in London. It maybe of use.CarlCarl,
this subject has been aired on group before.
Having worked on the railway for over twenty years I feel able to
give you (and others) some advice on the matter.
It is not illegal to photograph trains at stations, but the railway
by-laws do cover certain aspects of behaviour.
Basically, don't endanger yourself by standing right on the edge of
the platform: Station staff have a duty to warn people of the dangers
of doing that. Don't cause an obstruction by erecting a tripod where
people would tend to fall over it (bearing in mind that most
passengers forget to bring their common sense with them). Don't use
the flash on your camera, it could distract a driver and lead to a
SPAD. Since privatisation, some stations require that everyone has a
valid ticket in order to be on the premises (Penalty Fares Act) .
If you abide by these rules there is no reason for staff to intervene.
If you or anyone else is apprehended for persuing your hobby you
should question the reason and stand your ground. Threats of calling
the police should be dismissed, as you are not committing an offence.
Rgds.,

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AFAIK taking photos is NOT AN OFFENCE as long as :-* No flash (not sure if this is a rule at NR, but I never use it to be on the safe side)
* No tripods (again not sure, but definately no-no on LU and could give a jobsworth SA a reason.
* Not in a place of risk, so be clear of things like doorways, away from platform edges etc.I was stopped at Cockfosters, (Sawee mayte naw phawtaws allawed in cawbs (Sorry mate, no photos allowed in cabs in cockney )), the SS said he sympathised with me but they had to tell me off... think I will write a letter to LU before next trip, to be on the safe side.--
Tom Beevers
http://brj.rr.nu

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Down here (South East) the SA at Tonbridge station said that I shouldn't be photographing Multiple Units, because they aren't real trains according to him , nice guy! I think in London this subject is very bad among staff working in stations, Charing Cross or London Bridge are probably the worst.====================
James Dickinson
www.brj.rr.nu - BVE from around the UK.

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I know at Wimboldon I got told off for taking photos. I nearly turned round and grabbed out my Stagecoach Employee Pass Shame I had finished with them since I was going back to Mexico.Mind you this year (I am back in UK) me and a friend got told off at Bolton for taking photos of the trains. It was a case of the staff wanted us to take photos of them, ATB
Carl

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Just remember folks, you are on private property when you go onto a Station, and the reaction you get may depend on who owns the Station.Prior to privatisation photography and trainspotting from a platform were a national hobby - so no problem.The reason, 'an professional industry run by enthusiasts' who, in many cases shared the interest of those of us stood on the platform ends, or were keen to let people take an interest.The last six years has made a difference. The larger stations, or 'major stations' as they are known, are run by Network Rail who, unfortunately, have a different breed in charge and don't seem to want foster relationships with those interested on whats on the rails.Train Companies seem to take a different view. Here at Reading photographers are on the platform every day and as Class 104 says you need a ticket to travel to get onto the Station. Platform tickets, as used to be, no longer exist.Even on 'open stations' ie no gates to stop you entering, you are a trespasser until you have a ticket.The terrorism reason is the one usually put forward to stop you, and unfortunately, in todays climate is something that you cannot argue with. You know you aren't a terrorist but the person stopping you doesn't. Its a handy reason but its a hammer to smash a very small nut. A seem to remember reading in a mag of a person at Kings Cross being stopped from photography by GNER staff who told the person concerned to see a Network Rail person. When he did they told him to see GNER staff !A lot of the mags have lineside photos nowadays rather than station ones so perhaps the professionals have a problem as well.Never mind - come to Reading you are assured of a welcome and no restrictions!Bill

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Thanks for the great input from programmers and BVE drivers alike. That is very informative. Security company say the ones employed by SWT was there for catching passengers on ticketless travel. They have no right to stop researchers and photographers. To be branded a terrorist is over the top. Based on the law, the security company or personnel concerned can be prosecuted for making a false claim. The threat of security or rail staff handling over the photographer or researcher to BTP is not allowed as BTP did state that it is not a crime for photography or private researh. This is certainly not tresspass as the photographer or researcher is not acting in a manner of tresspassing onto railway property.Some station masters, staffs and drivers, especially those who started from British Rail days are the most welcomingto researchers and photographers. The problem arise from new staffs who joined the rail industry after privatisation, who tends to include practices from the industry they originate from. Was at Leeds today to study the class 333 Siemens trains. The Arriva staff there have no problems in research nad photography and I was given an orientation of the cab too. I believe it is down to individuals.Do not be put off by these people who do not appreciate railways, just take precautions on safety like1 No flash
2 Stand behind the platform yellow lines
3 Make sure the tripod is not obstructing anyoneMore comments welcomed

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Personally, I've never had any trouble. I'm not tarnishing anyone with the same brush here, but it always seems to be those who pick a fight, or the cocky one's who end up being dragged off the station. I've not been asked to move yet, and a polite question is always going to get you extra points.Generally, using the "I'm within my rights" speech doesn't get you anywhere, and is more likely to alienate any staff.All in all, a good explenation, a polite question, and even a smile would be best!--
Nathan Whitington <><

http://www.whitington.net

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I would repeat the flash/tripod etc rules. I never use any of the above anyway.I have never had any trouble taking photos, mainly as I tend to be discreet, and stick to the flash etc rules. There is always the "jobsworth" types who will tell you off (the impulse must come from wearing a uniform! ). However, that has never happened to me. Interestingly, according to my father, 1950s and 1960s trainspotters were regularly ordered off stations by staff.I think technically you need a permit, but I'd wouldn't try. I think it is a cheek in a free country to need one quite frankly. It is not as though they are nuclear facilities or something. On the subject of terrorism, lets face it, the companies need no help in causing train crashes!There has been a change in culture since privatisation regarding trainspotters. Some trainspotters at Knottingley in South Yorks may know what I am talking about.Certainly in the old East Germany, taking photos of trains has resulted in spotters having close encounters with the Stazi. In China, taking photos has resulted in spotters being chased away by employees. Lets hope things don't get that way in democracies!Paul

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Well, what an interesting little topic. One of my colleagues went to a twenty-five year service dinner yesterday and sat with one of the Directors of the bus company that owns the train company I work for. He admitted, as a bus man, that he couldn't understand the camaraderie that makes the railways work. I don't suppose anybody can that perhaps isn't closely involved with it, and of course the bus industry hasn't got the history of the railways.Mind you my colleague had to blag his way into the dinner because he worked for British Rail, then Railtrack as a signaller, and came to my company four years ago as a Control Manager. The bus company that owns us now deemed that he hadn't had twenty-five years continuous service because he left Railtrack on Friday and started with us on the following Monday! That says something for the modern management that runs our industry and seems set, in some places, to spoil the enjoyment of those of us interested in railways.The railway industry has attracted a particular sort in the past. One of my other colleagues was told when he joined many years ago "This industry is run on bad language and hard humour. If you can't take it leave now. You will either stay a week or a lifetime".Many stayed the lifetime - I can't see it happenning now, and which may account for the differing attitudes that now prevail at different Stations. Shame.Bill

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-03 AT 04:46 PM (EST)

Just a little insight from "across the pond,"I have amassed a collection of over 1,500 pictures from transit systems in the New York City area, as well as other American systems. In most cases, I wasn't even hasseled. I've heard some stories of photographers in the subway getting a ticket (with an accompying US$25 fine, but when they're brought up in court, they're dismissed.I will refer you to one story at http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?subtalk=549940, and the result here.I locally stored the image that now appears as the "Red X," and if you want, I'll post it.-Robert Marrero

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Hi I live in Cornwall (were most stations are unmaned ) which gives ample scope to view the trains - since on the mainline we get FGW HST's Wessextrains class 150s and 153s Alphaline class 158's Arriva trains wales class 150s and 158s Virgin Voyagers class 220s and 221s and last but by no means least we get SWT which run about 2 services a week into cornwall !!. The nearest station which is manned for most of the day 6am to 8pm is Truro and I have taken plenty of pictures there without a problem. I have taken pictures in most of the SE Trains area - Chatham, Rochester, Strood, Gravesend, Dartford and Lewisham without problem. I have also taken pictures in London Paddington without a problem (a HST in the new Barbie colours next to a new Adelante ) which is owned by Network rail I assume since it used to be railtrack One other source of information is the operators website one of particular good info is Wessextrains which has downloadable pictures of there trains plus what trains they have how meny of each type and a rough idea of where to find the stock in everyday operation. heres there website http://www.wessextrains.co.uk/thesidings/index.php?subnavID=105This link takes you to the heart of the rail enthusiasts section - select from the table to the left headed "the siding" I don't know about being banned but with an unmanned station who can stop you taking photos ?p.s. I have also taken videos and not been stopped.

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-04 AT 04:21 AM (EST)

Wessex Trains i have a problem with!Since privatisation the days of the traditional train spotter have always been numbered!Gloucester station some months ago i was verbally abused and threatened by a foreign train dispatcher for taking photographs. And he failed to provide me with a good reason!I consider that kind of behavoir unacceptable! Espeacially since i was doing nothing wrong nor was i using Flash Photography..Something along the lines of... im sorry but you cant take photographs here would have been much more polite.I have considered writing a letter of complaint to the station master!What are they trying to do?? drive us to the lineside? Network rail run stations apparently are the easiest to take pictures at.. For instance Euston have a system where if you inform reception upon arrival they tell the security staff to leave you alone!As regards wessex i have heard that i am not the first person to be verbally abused by this person, and probably not the last. I would go to an unmanned station but there are few that any traffic that is worth seeing goes through...

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Willington station. That is unmaned and i often go up there when i finish college early as its only a couple of miles down the road too many voyagers though.
Touch wood ive never been asked to move, but thats probably because ive not been enough places yethttp://mysite.freeserve.com/midland_bve

Please update links on your sites to the address above

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Hi all.I think for the most part it is officious jobsworths getting a kick out of ordering people about about. Maybe they should be in the police! I have never had a problem photograhing trains, but then I tend to be discreet anyway. A couple of weeks ago I was photographing at Calais Ville station over in France when a member of staff asked me for "mes papiers" but he was joking around knowing I was a Rosbeuf. I doubt the French would put up with balls about not photographing trains. I fail to see why terrorists would need to photograph trains before blowing them up. Surely one would just go and do it before the secret service caught you. I (as a daily London commuter) am not scared for the simple reason that I am far more likely to be run over walking to the station.Paul

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This is a very interesting topic for me, seeing as this is part of my University course...
Let me explain: in the third year of my Multimedia Technology and Design course, everyone has to choose a long-term project to complete by the end of the year. I've chosen to create an interactive guide/tour of the Paris Metro (what else? ). This means it's a requirement that I clear all copyright permissions with RATP.I've yet to contact them, but I can report back on how the French transport authorities respond to this kind of request

PkerUNO
MétroSim Project
http://www.kcmultimedia.co.uk/metrosim

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I got away with videoing at Manchester victoria for my trainspotters 2004 video and even a foreigner came up a said 'were you the one taking video up there?'I said 'Yes, is there a problem?'he said 'you shouldt do that! I would of taken your tape and destroyed it'then i said 'Well, if there was something to TELL me, a sign or whatever, that i cant video, i would have known!'he said 'well, ill let you off this ONCE'well they should put sings up wether to ask, how the hell would some of us know, are we supposed to be Mind-readers now?!?
Even that Manchester Piccadilly wont be on my tape, due to i have to PAY to video!!!

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I understand that locals do not have a problem, they even tell you where are the best locations for a shoot. Every time, I was caught by "foreigners" or "foreign" security guards who were employed not as security at that station but as revenue protection officer at peak hours.Based on recent comments, the verdict is that security guards are not suitable for ANY work on the stations. The station have to be manned by railway personnal or BTP. Hence, many railway person are being trained with BTP. With respect to "foreigners", they get overboard all the time as they do not know/understand the term of train researchers, let alone trainsportters. Cheers
Hongjian

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HiOK update on my exploits.I have been to London again, I went to Earling Broadway, and was quickly pulled by a non english person who quickly told me not to take photos. So I quickly moved on. I had no problems at Kings X though.Also went to Devon, took photos at Newton Abbot, Exeter St. Davids and Exeter Central (found this by mistake) with no problems at any.Also no problems tonight at Preston. I must be getting well known by them.Apart from the FNW guard who took me as a muslim. and demanding my name and address. This was at Darwen, the unstaffed station (No offence towars Muslims)I always seem to end up with non english people who jump on my back.Anyway There is a website which is trying to get a list of stations which photos are/are not allowed. This is athttp://homepage.ntlworld.com/graham.turner37/pages/UK_Station_Photography_Guide.htmATB
Carl-o-
To contact me on MSN
carlturner101@hotmail.com
-o-
&,For my fotopic site:
http://carl2178.fotopic.net/
-o-

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I think this is relevant...The following circular was posted to a gen group that I am subscribed to:-------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Fw: SNCF ban all casual railway photography :-

Dear All

Here is some important information that is being sent to as many railway enthusiats as possible via Internet and various railway magazines:-

1. From David Haydock:

I have just spoken to SNCF and written this for TR. Please circulate it.

Europe's railways on alert
Since the attacks in Madrid, Europe's railways have been on a high state of alert and there are far more police or even soldiers armed with automatic weapons visible in major stations. It is sad to say that it is therefore not the moment for railway enthusiasts to hang around stations with binoculars and cameras. The governments in the UK, France, Spain and Poland are particularly worried as they have been specifically targeted by al-Qaeda.

In France, the government has raised its Vigipirate plan to counter terrorism to maximum level. This means that photography is officially forbidden on railway property unless a person has authorisation from SNCF's headquarters and even then they will be accompanied by SNCF personnel. Authorisation can only be obtained from SNCF, Direction de la Communication, 34 rue du Commandant Mouchotte, F-75699 Paris cedex 14. Readers are also warned not to take photos of SNCF lines from other points as they may well be arrested for doing so at present. DAH

2. From Peter Cook

The Vigipirate anti-terrorist scheme is on red status in stations, with police in large numbers at the two Lille stations for example. You cannot go down on to the platforms at Lille Europe unless you have a ticket - you cannot meet a passenger for example. I would be careful with a camera (big stations also have private security firms operating who like to exercise their authority, real or imagined) and above all don't argue with them about your rights !! Like Pierre I do not know what the official position is but every member of staff is in the same boat !

Peter.
-------------------------------------------------------I don't know any more about this, but I thought you should all get the chance to read it.Robert.-----

http://www.scotrailsim.co.uk
http://www.bvetrains.co.uk

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Oh. That doesn't sound too good...
I hope RATP will be a bit less strict... and I'll also probably have to get my University to send them some kind of guarantee, I expect...

PkerUNO
MétroSim Project
http://www.kcmultimedia.co.uk/metrosim

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<quote>Platform tickets, as used to be, no longer exist</quote>This is untrue, Platform Tickets are still available (on the Thameslink Network anyhow) at 10p for 60 minutes and all stations are equipped with the relevent black APTIS stock. The new machines at Blackfriars will issue them on normal Orange hopper stock. Also all new staff as part of Retail training have been trained on how issue them (although it is hardly a hard task) There has been no circular from ATOC to say that Platform Tickets are not to be sold so all NR stations should be able to issue them and SHOULD issue them on request HTIOI

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>In France, the government has raised its Vigipirate plan to
>counter terrorism to maximum level. This means that
>photography is officially forbidden on railway property
>unless a person has authorisation from SNCF's headquarters
>and even then they will be accompanied by SNCF personnel.
>Authorisation can only be obtained from SNCF, Direction de
>la Communication, 34 rue du Commandant Mouchotte, F-75699
>Paris cedex 14. Readers are also warned not to take photos
>of SNCF lines from other points as they may well be arrested
>for doing so at present. DAH Most annoying, as am going to France next week on holiday. Have to be extra careful. I still don't see how banning photography is supposed to prevent terrorism. Surely if you want to blow up a train you just get on board with a bag, I see no point in casing the place first. Presumably the authorities will be banning "Lawrence of Arabia" videos too. Don't get me wrong, I am all for useful measures aginst terrorism, just not for brainless authoritarianism. Are we supposed to stop tourists taking photos of Big Ben or Buckingham Palace now as well? I suspect it is just an excuse for victimising trainspotters. Apparently (according to my father) trainspotters were regularly "moved on" in the 1950s and 1960s.>The Vigipirate anti-terrorist scheme is on red status in
>stations, with police in large numbers at the two Lille
>stations for example. You cannot go down on to the
>platforms at Lille Europe unless you have a ticket - you
>cannot meet a passenger for example. Lille Europe has international trains making it in effect an international frontier. The same applies to Waterloo International. Which explains that policy I think.I would be careful
>with a camera (big stations also have private security firms
>operating who like to exercise their authority, real or
>imagined) and above all don't argue with them about your
>rights !! Heaven forbid, they might realise we are democracies! Paul

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Hi againJust one addendum. In 2000, I visited Kenya. This was two years after the Al Qaeda bombing of the American Embassy, which was about 100 yards from Nairobi station on the corner Haile Selaisse Avenue and Moi Avenue. I had actually heard of Bin Laden long before September 11th.Kenya was at that time ruled by the authoritarian KANU party and had a very poor human rights record. Their police were/are notoriously corrupt and often brutal. Photography of their parliament building was illegal (and enforced by security guards). Any port was also not allowed to be photographed. (NB 1/8th of Politics, Philosophy and Economics degree included Sub-Saharan African Politics so I know what I am talking about). Photography of "His Excellency" the president was also banned.Not only was I able to taked plenty of photos of trains (including one which included the embassy bombsite), I was able to do so with no hassle whatsoever from anyone (no-one even fished for a bribe). I was (absent mindedly) took a photo of Mombasa Dhow harbour...from the grounds of a Mosque.Puts these European regulations into perspective I think. The only people I know of who have had trouble with the authorities were people taking photos in the old East Germany, and also China. I am sure we don't want to head into their direction.Paul

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>Puts these European regulations into perspective I think.
>The only people I know of who have had trouble with the
>authorities were people taking photos in the old East
>Germany, and also China. I am sure we don't want to head
>into their direction. Which part of China were you in? I had no problems taken the Beijing Metro and the mainline as well! That was just last year December!

-----You are reading my signature now, don't waste your time reading it!-----
Or probably, maybe you should waste your time reading it.
Eh, where did my signature go?
Oh, here it is, the one you are reading right now? Can't you see it? I know I know, it's probably too bright to see it.
Hey, look at my avatar, nice right? I drew it with my own hands holding the mouse in Paint, with the pencil tool(and the Filling tool!)!
It's a picture of me in Planet Stooopid, where everything is the same as what you call "Earth" except that we are called "aliens" in your planet.
Anyway, I warned you not waste time reading my signature! You have just wasted probably about 30 seconds reading it, where you could have spent the time doing better things, like maybe reading the next post below if there is one...

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next we will be banned from taking numbers!!as if a terrorist would buy a £300 camera, £300 camcorder, trains jumper, a code book, memeber of UKTS and Train-sim and everything else!!

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HiI've never been to China. The person in question was photographing steam engines on an industrial line when he was chased away by a mob.Paul

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