ROCKIN' My World!

LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-03 AT 05:50 PM (EST)

Admittedly, it doesn't take much to impress me... but you see, I'm so excited having stumbled onto a method to simulate the close clearance rock cuts I've seen so much in mountainous railroading that I'm about to pee my pants!! Below you'll find two final pics of the rough draft of my initial efforts. Okay, okay, I'll shut up now and quit posting pics for a bit. Besides, I've got to quit playing and go to work developing ways to make this more flexible and faster to use for other portions of this, my first project route.BTW, you're looking at a cut in the Poker Bluff region of The North Arkansas route!Andre Ming
Big Cheese and Great Poohbah of V Scale Creations

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RE: ROCKIN' My World!, stephenburr, Nov-21-03, 05:43 PM, (1) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, DRGWK36, Nov-21-03, 05:48 PM, (2) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, yellowdog, Nov-21-03, 06:19 PM, (3) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, Coonskin, Nov-21-03, 07:50 PM, (4) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, yellowdog, Nov-21-03, 09:00 PM, (5) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, Tree Frog, Nov-21-03, 09:00 PM, (6) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, pvoxland, Nov-21-03, 09:29 PM, (7) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, Hack, Nov-21-03, 11:13 PM, (10) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, pvoxland, Nov-21-03, 11:35 PM, (11) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, Hack, Nov-22-03, 03:36 AM, (12) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, yellowdog, Nov-22-03, 09:14 AM, (15) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, Coonskin, Nov-22-03, 09:52 AM, (17) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, Hack, Nov-22-03, 12:55 PM, (21) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, Coonskin, Nov-22-03, 02:04 PM, (22) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, Hack, Nov-22-03, 03:17 PM, (25) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, yellowdog, Nov-23-03, 11:22 AM, (32) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, andrewpickell, Nov-21-03, 09:40 PM, (8) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, Coonskin, Nov-21-03, 10:45 PM, (9) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, Gixxer86g, Nov-22-03, 06:47 AM, (13) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, yellowdog, Nov-22-03, 09:15 AM, (16) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, Coonskin, Nov-22-03, 02:20 PM, (23) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, yellowdog, Nov-22-03, 02:47 PM, (24) GeForce 4 MX 440?, Hack, Nov-22-03, 03:28 PM, (26) RE: GeForce 4 MX 440?, yellowdog, Nov-22-03, 04:34 PM, (27) RE: GeForce 4 MX 440?, Hack, Nov-22-03, 11:47 PM, (30) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, dmikulec, Nov-22-03, 11:38 AM, (20) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, Frisco2, Nov-22-03, 07:19 PM, (29) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, jonathanmlewis, Nov-22-03, 08:35 AM, (14) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, K36487, Nov-22-03, 09:56 AM, (18) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, rgarber, Nov-22-03, 10:52 AM, (19) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, nicober, Nov-22-03, 05:26 PM, (28) RE: ROCKIN' My World!, chosenfrozen44, Nov-23-03, 00:14 AM, (31)

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Look's great Andre! There's a lot of cuts like this back here in the east, and in places you wouldn't expect. Great work.

Steve Burr

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Those are the kinds of details that add tons of realism to a route, Andre. Are those objects or terrain textures, or is that something that is forbidden to ask of the BC&GPVSC?And I was wondering, just how does one become BC&GPVSC? Was there a suitable ceremony with lots of little cheeses (the kind in the red wax coating?) Andy

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I've got to ask again, can you turn that stuff into a tunnel??To answer your question as to why I uninstalled simply, I have to say life priority changes. Plus, to be honest, I just wasn't having fun with it anymore. My Trainset folder was stuffed full of cool things I hardly ever got to use. It was pretty much just eye candy gathering dust. It's like a musical instrument that sits somewhere on a shelf--it wasn't made just to be a conversation piece, it was made to bring joy and to be shared with others. But, like a musical instrument, it takes time to learn how to bring it to it's fullest potential. And I didn't want to give it the time anymore. I still hang out here and post cuz I like you guys , but I don't really miss the sim. I have a lot fewer headaches and frustrations these days! MSTS happily uninstalled since June, 2003

---------Clayton---------

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Ol' Yellow Dog himself asked:"I've got to ask again, can you turn that stuff into a tunnel??"Ooops. Sorry, missed your question earlier. Quick experiments proved my suspicions: Yes, they'll work inside a tunnel, but with some caveats:* If using regular track inside the mountain, you'll need a "floor" for the rails to sit on.* If using tunnel pieces, you'll have to move the rocks VERY close to the tracks in order to appear inside the tunnel track enclosure.* The interior rock pieces would need darker textures to reduce the UV reaction the sim uses for daylight. (i.e. Things "under the earth" are illuminated like they were on top of the earth!)So, none of the above is a "biggie"... but at least that's the rest of the story!Andy (chuckle): You have NO idea what ceremonial rites were taken to become the Big Cheese and Great Poohbah of V Scale Creations. However, such rites are indeed secret and cannot be revealed. I will say, however, that the rumors having to do with eating bugs is unfounded. As for "how'd you do dat?": No magic, simply objects and textures. Still working on perfecting the idea. Like I said though, it WILL work... just got to iron a few details.Andre Ming
The Big Cheese and Great Poohbah of V Scale Creations

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No problem about missing it the first time--I hear you're not getting much sleep these days! I think it would be cool if you turn that into a tunnel, though it won't be much use for me these days. Here's some more for you--how about different cuts, like good ole red clay mud?
andandWheeee!!Maybe you could even use this same sort of technique for making fills:Regardless, I think it will be great for the cuts leading into tunnel entrances as well.I also tried to find a pic of a good cut that was covered in kudzu, but couldn't find anything in my digi pics. THAT would also be kewl!
MSTS happily uninstalled since June, 2003

---------Clayton---------

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Andre,That is by far the best looking, most realistic rock cut I have ever seen in the sim. If I get back to route building, you will hear from me. I am going to pester you and pester you until you send it to me.Fantastic job !Bill Burnett

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This really is an impressive combination of vegetation and rock texturing. I think Andre would agree that the two are almost inseperable to give these excellent results. That is, placing a rock-textured object inevitably brings along some hard eges, along the top (rock to sky), along the bottom (rock to terrain), and along either side (rock and terrain again). However adding brush and weeds masks those edges very effectively. Other keys to these results are the shadows in the rock, the horizontal orientation of the rock layers, and, I think, the terrific detailing and scaling of the rock itself. I think the viewer's eye gets delightfully overwhelmed by the detail and cannot take the time to notice any of the edges or texture boundaries I mentioned. Another reason why terrain transfers or terrain textures are likely not to work well is that it is very difficult to create a sharp vertical cut especially when the vertical distance is not great. Likewise it is rare to have an area where with the rock face stays a reasonably constant distance from the track on either side. The MSTS terrain resolution (8 meters) is just too crude. I have been spending a lot of time placing berms throughout my route, and they can really enhance the look of an area with cuts and fills. As I worked with them, I thought some about making an "anti-berm" ... that is a cut with evenly sloped smooth sides. I'm really happy to see what good results also can be had with tailor making cuts like these. There are places where I will want to add those on my route too. However, I'll have to find some different textures or photograph my own as there is a different geology in Northern Minnesota.

--- Phil Voxland

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Phil - did you receive my note re: berms? Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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Yep I got your note! (answering Marc's question) (Marc and I have exchanged some mail on berms and berm-o-matic placement) I'm not saying either of our ideas make it easy, but both give much improved results over crude RE terraining. My solution involved placing custom created objects under straight or curved track sections. Marc can explain what wonderful things came out of his bag of tricks, however, when the time is right for that.

--- Phil Voxland

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Simple combination of Phil's berm-o-matic concept and the Add Gantries option in RE:Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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Marc--That idea might work really well for fills, or even (on a smaller scale) more realistic raised trackbed, if the texture was changed. Sort of like placing that cork stuff under the tracks when doing model railroading. MSTS happily uninstalled since June, 2003

---------Clayton---------

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Hackster:REALLY like the foreground texture you've developed for the Interstate route. The hint of earth tone mixed among the greenery has resulted in a VERY natural look. Did you hand texture that until you liked the mix, or did you start with a photo?I've been procrastinating terrain textures on my North Arkansas route. I figure once I start, the dominoes will fall and essentially all of the vegetation colors will be need to be remixed (i.e. hues/saturation). There you go Yellowdog: Marc's Interstate will be the piece de resistance for CRR/L&N type simming!! Just could make your sig change to: "MSTS happily reinstalled since January '04". Andre

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>I've been procrastinating terrain textures on my North Arkansas route.Perhaps a trade's in order...Trees for dirt? Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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Hackster said:"Perhaps a trade's in order...Trees for dirt?"LOL! ALWAYS the horse trader, eh?Well... if'n I can't get the results I like with'n my efforts... may have to get my tradin' bibs on. Andre

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>have to get my tradin' bibs on. I'll bring the beer...uh, refreshments. Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-23-03 AT 11:54 AM (EST)

>There you go Yellowdog: Marc's Interstate will be the piece
>de resistance for CRR/L&N type simming!! Just could make
>your sig change to: "MSTS happily reinstalled since January
>'04".
If Marc re-does the Kingsport Sub (I would say Blue Ridge, too, but then there's that darn white void issue. . .) into a working route, I'll change my sig! EDIT: Just playing around! MSTS happily uninstalled since June, 2003

---------Clayton---------

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AndreIt looks real good. I like the effect that you have created. Do you think something this size would be possible?- Andrew

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-03 AT 10:46 PM (EST)

Whooopeee! Still ploppin' rocks! Nope, didn't like the results of some further experiments and figured I'd cut my losses and use what I've got until I HAVE to have something else.Thanks to all the new hoots and hollers of encouragement. Yellow dog: Yes to all your questions. What I've done can be used to simulate the above situations. All it takes is some TSM time, textures, and tinkering.Bill B. Thank you very much for your very kind comments. If and when you get back to route building, given your cutting edge creativity that this sim community has been privileged to enjoy, I will indeed try to fix you up when the time comes!Phil: You hit the nail on the head, my tree building friend.Andrew: Yes. The rock object would need to be large and flat, textured with a usable texture, then tilted when placed. Once you get the object tilted/aligned to your liking, use copy/paste to create the others. And now for some pics of THE REASON I created these things: The Narrows.Below are a couple of RE grabs of my version of The Narrows on my North Arkansas project.THANK YOU SIM COMMUNITY FOR ALL THE ENCOURAGEMENT!!Andre Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations

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Wow!

"Hold tight,feel the drivers bite,hear the whistle moan.Engine rockin' to the left and right,vibratin' in my bones.Once the locomotive steals your soul,you got a Casey Jones!"---Ian"Lemmy"Kilmister

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Yep, Andre, that looks awesome! What does that little divot do to your FPS? MSTS happily uninstalled since June, 2003

---------Clayton---------

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-03 AT 02:26 PM (EST)

Yellerdawg asked:"Yep, Andre, that looks awesome! What does that little divot do to your FPS?" First, a disclaimer: My system is getting a bit long in tooth. Consider the following specs -1.3 Ghz Celery
256 Meg PC100 SD RAM
GeForce 4 MX 440Having said that, I recall getting 28 FPS coming through that scene. (Until into the Beaver town scene, then I think I recall it dropping to about 22-24?) If you'll look at the lead pic in this thread, read the FPS number in the lower right hand side. That pic was taken from the opposite direction coming into the same area but through a gargantuan cut containing many of the rock objects and stuff. I feel that the more polys I can save building a route and objects, the better the end result for my future end users: They'll have more FPS head room for running the trains of their choice. You've got to remember that you're talking to the consumate poly-mizer here. (Rich G will confirm that!) EVERYTHING in that scene is extremely low-poly for exactly that reason. The rock object goes about 22 (converted) polys. The bridge is something like 400 polys. The trees and tree blocks/billboards range from 4 polys up to 12 polys each. Bear in mind that I use 512 x 512 textures on my forest objects too.I can place over 500 of my forest objects on a tile and still get FPS of 28 or better on my system. The hardest hits are still the towns with more complex (poly) shapes to render.Personal experiments have adequately proven to me that it IS polys that hit us harder than textures. When used on objects, textures have by far less impact on FPS than polys. Caveat to that is custom painted terrain patches. Those seem to eat up resource at an alarming rate.Thus far, only two finished areas on my North Arkansas route have FPS less than 20. Both are at the largest towns, and both of those are in the mid-upper upper teens or better (depending on view vantage).Andre "Poly Mizer" Ming
THE Big Cheese and Great Poobah of V Scale Creations

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Hmm, thanks for the info. My machine is running on a 1ghz AMD Athlon CPU, 384MB Ram, and 64MB ATI Radeon 7500 card. I never really could get decent FPS, though (another reason for the uninstall), so maybe I've got some sort of strange configuration problems. Anyway, still looking good, there! MSTS happily uninstalled since June, 2003

---------Clayton---------

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Andre-san,Nvidia has a new set of drivers on their site: "Force 50", and they're WHQL certified. Increased MSTS performance on my system 20% (never had a boost like that before! - note: improvements on an MX card might be different than my Ti500). Also make sure to run mprofile.exe in the TS folder after installing the new drivers.http://www.nvidia.comCheers!
Marc - The Big Kahuna at 3DTrains (No Stuff, Just Trains)
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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Oooh, ATI also has a recent update for their Radeon cards (dated 11-5-03). I installed this just now and the installer actually WORKED and appears to have made a difference in my resolution! Thanks, Marc, sort of! MSTS happily uninstalled since June, 2003

---------Clayton---------

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No problem...Anytime I can steer you in the wrong direction, just holler. Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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That's the best looking rock cut I've ever seen in MSTS. Excellent stuff.Raised the bar another notch you have Mister Ming.
--
Dave Mikulec
(former Charter Member)
"the Ohio Southeastern - NKP Project"

Route homepage:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/d/m/dmikulec/OSES/index.html

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The little town of Beaver WOW !! I've been there and seen that very bridge it looks just like the real thing. Great Job! AndreDave

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WOW!!! Looks truly amamzinghttp://groups.msn.com/MSTSNarrowGauge

Jonathan Lewis
jonathanmlewis@msn.com

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Coonskin! Awesome job! I can't wait to run 487 on that!
Future Cumbres & Toltec or Durango & Silverton Engineer. Go to my informative K-36 page:
http://www.freewebs.com/drgwk36 Visit the Pheasant Hill Railroad's (My G-scale) official site!http://groups.msn.com/MSTSNarrowGauge/ngmodelinggscale.msnwVisit the Red Mountain Gorge Narrow Gauge R.R.'s official
site:
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*Proud to be a "Friend" of the Cumbres & Toltec.*

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Excellent pics there dude! Just a little bit of bugsquash on the windshield and you got a winner there! Looks very realistic!Rich Garber

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AWESOME! - Great realistic textures.Continue your great work Andre, It's one of the greatest textures I ever seen for MSTS.

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thats simply beautiful!!!!!!!!!! great work.....
CHUCK

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