Yard Duty Pricing

Guys,Since I began developing Yard Duty, I’ve always had in mind charging a set price for the software. I have begun to re-think this and find that I am currently leaning towards a membership based system.If you were around when MSTS was released, you will remember that I was the first to release an MSTS add-on utility (called ‘MSTS Buddy’, $14.95 thank you very much, and still selling!). One of the lessons I learned from it is that once a purchase is made, a customer expects support (and rightly so) indefinitely. This means licensing them when their hard drive crashes, etc… Now, realizing that YD requires an FTP server (bandwidth=money) and a system administrator to keep thing up & running, I began to wonder for just how long would someone purchasing the game expect to play it. 1 year? 5 year? I guess they would assume they could play forever! So I began to realize the drawback of selling YD.This made me begin to think about the viability of making Yard Duty a membership based product. In other words, you as a player, would pay for a membership during which your copy of YD would be licensed for play. (in 3 months, 6 months or 1 year increments with new members getting a 30 day free trial) This is what I am currently have in mind.In reality, I want Yard Duty to be a game with a community of users who correspond and interact with each other, and not just a game that someone buys to play for himself only. I think the idea of purchasing a membership in an online rail community reinforces the idea of community. You would know that the people who play the game really care about what they are doing, and I could refuse service to those people who tend to cause more pain to the community than joy.For these reasons, I am thinking it would be best to make it a membership system. It would be kind of like your local model railroad club, except with the ultimate online operating session, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, with prototypical train lengths, no derailments, and a rail system unparalleled by any model layout in the world. Please let me know what you think of this idea.Sincerely,
Jim

Yard Duty, The National Freight Yard Simulation - http://groups.msn.com/YardDuty

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RE: Yard Duty Pricing, leesome1226, Dec-04-02, 10:47 AM, (1) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, grundey, Dec-04-02, 02:13 PM, (2) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, KingJPW, Dec-04-02, 04:01 PM, (3) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, Auzze, Dec-04-02, 04:48 PM, (4) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, KingJPW, Dec-04-02, 05:01 PM, (5) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, grundey, Dec-04-02, 05:18 PM, (6) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, leesome1226, Dec-04-02, 05:20 PM, (7) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, KingJPW, Dec-04-02, 10:31 PM, (10) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, romanrails, Dec-04-02, 09:19 PM, (8) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, KingJPW, Dec-04-02, 10:30 PM, (9) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, romanrails, Dec-04-02, 11:28 PM, (11) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, KingJPW, Dec-05-02, 00:16 AM, (12) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, brownstone, Dec-09-02, 02:30 AM, (13) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, KingJPW, Dec-09-02, 03:01 AM, (14) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, brownstone, Dec-10-02, 04:40 AM, (15) RE: Yard Duty Pricing, pwm33, Dec-10-02, 08:18 AM, (16)

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Hi Jim,I think this idea is better than a one-time payment. It allows for those who don't like YD(what would they be thinking? to fall off and those who truly love the game and participate to continue on. Remember, in a game like YD which is so internet based, the more people contributing the more fun it is.Also, drop me an email when you have a moment.Chris Lee
Train Artisan

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Hi Jim
Great idea if not to expensive . I'm not in the USA so are you going to use 1.Direct payments only ie snail mail, 2.plastic/paypal, as pay pal or plastic system would put up overheads if the membership numbers and cost is lowPrefer payment type 1I dont know what plastic or paypal charges???ps good game but my lack of knowlage of usa geography slows me up at the mo!!!!!!How meny players have you at the mo????

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Well, it won't be as expensive as joining a real model railroad club! I looked into joining one and I think they charged over $100 per month in club dues. I'm thinking of something like this (in US funds):$45 for 3 months = $15 per month
$60 for 6 months = $10 per month
$90 per year = $7.5 per monthAs with MSTS Buddy, I will accept PayPal, M.O., and checks sent to my PO Box. What country are you in?It seems like there are about 10 guys regularly playing right now. When I put an ad in 'Model Railroading' magazine there will be many more!Jim

Yard Duty, The National Freight Yard Simulation - http://groups.msn.com/YardDuty

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Hi.
Well at them prices
"$45 for 3 months = $15 per month
$60 for 6 months = $10 per month
$90 per year = $7.5 per month"I will have to jump out, sorry..
I just can;'t afford that, Here in Australia we would have to pay Say $180.00AU for 12 Months...So I will hang on till you have to pay then I will drop off...
I do understand you need to make money from Yard Duty, thatsone reason you are working on it.Dam great game.Stuart

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yardduty/

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Don't worry, my well known beta testers will be taken care of...

Yard Duty, The National Freight Yard Simulation - http://groups.msn.com/YardDuty

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Hi
70 USD per year would be better. I only pay 300usd per yearfor my sailing club membership including two boat berths ( Dinghys) your model train club is Very ExpensiveYours David

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Could be worse, my model Train club is 240 a yearChris Lee
Train Artisan

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Yeah, but those are just boats and we're talking about TRAINS!!!

Yard Duty, The National Freight Yard Simulation - http://groups.msn.com/YardDuty

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I have to chime in and agree with the others who think that pricing is way too much. I would either go set price for a sim that will work on its own with an ability to run trains without any interaction online and then an optional subscription fee if you want to upload and download trains and new maps - at a much lower price than you have suggested. I think there are some guys who will want to just play the game on their own and not upload. I know that this is contrary to you intentions when you made the game and I agree that it would be and will be a lot more fun when a lot of guys are interacting - but think you should not exclude those who would just pay once and not interact. Charging a lot for a subscription fee is not going to help the online interaction and community grow. You could always raise the fee later if your costs/trouble increase and see what negative reaction that may have on subscriptions. I would also strongly, strongly suggest that you get a merchant account, Jim. Really, most people aren't going to take a business or product seriously that does not directly take credit card orders. I have had one for my small individual business for 10 years and it would be impossible to do business (or stay in business anyway) without it. I wouldn't even consider trying to do serious business without one. They are not hard to get and would really increase the credibility of your company/products. You could even rely upon some sort of third party (not paypal) to process them for you. This may just be me, but I don't have a good initial impression of a company or product who's primary payment method is PayPal - probably because I am not impressed with PayPal. My first thought is 'why don't they have their own merchant account?'. The game is great and God knows addictive, but I have to admit that I passed it over first time I saw it because of the PayPal payment and fees. My honest opinion for what it's worth. Alan

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1) "...suggest that you get a merchant account"
Actually, I do have a merchant account, which I could put to good use with Yard Duty.2) "...without any interaction online"
Come to think ouf it, there is no way to play Yard Duty without any interaction online. All maps and changes to the rail system are distributed online (on a daily basis!) and the transfer of trains is of course oline. So YD can't be used as a stand alone product, and shouldn't be marketed as such.3) "...you could always raise the fee later"
I think I'll have an easier time lowering the fees. 4) Well, what do you suggest as an alternate pricing structure?Thanks,
Jim

Yard Duty, The National Freight Yard Simulation - http://groups.msn.com/YardDuty

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>1) "...suggest that you get a merchant account"
>Actually, I do have a merchant account, which I could put to
>good use with Yard Duty.
>Great. I certainly would let people pay directly by card especially if you are putting an ad in MR.
>2) "...without any interaction online"
>Come to think ouf it, there is no way to play Yard Duty
>without any interaction online. All maps and changes to the
>rail system are distributed online (on a daily basis!) and
>the transfer of trains is of course oline. So YD can't be
>used as a stand alone product, and shouldn't be marketed as
>such.
>Have you considered making this an option. You can use it now to a limited degree without interaction. It's just all your trains and cars that you are dealing with and you're not getting the updates. I think you will find a lot of the older model railroaders probably are not very active online and it could scare them away from the game if they feel forced to interact ... even though of course they would not be. I could just forsee this perhaps hurting your sales and limiting your audience. I was also going to suggest this. One of the selling points for the game is that you can make your own maps. The catch being that the map has to make approval and be accepted and the other catch being that you will wind up dealing with a lot (more?) crappy maps to sort through when this thing catches on and no doubt have to reject some - probably not making a repeat subscriber in the process. What if ....
a person could create a map that would only reside on their hard drive. The map would have to be a satellite of a map that IS on the server (an approved map). The users map would not get any destinations in the automated destination features and would not be listed "officially". But the user could deliver cars there from an 'official' map. I think this could solve a couple of problems for you. One being that it will give an outlet for those who want to create a map that wouldn't otherwise be accepted or of general interest online. For instance, where the track ran through your hometown or your favorite trainwatching spot etc etc. The second being that you wouldn't have to worry so much about rejecting someones map or offending someone since even if it isn't going to be put into the system 'officially', it is going to still be usable by them. Think of it this way. What if on MSTS you couldn't create a route or it couldn't be usable unless you uploaded it and it got approved. I know for me, half - hell, most of the fun of MSTS is in the building and customizing. If map making is going to be a big selling point for YD, then it would be a good idea that the end user is assured they will be able to use their map when completed. I have no idea how hard this would be to implement, but it might be worth some thought. >3) "...you could always raise the fee later"
>I think I'll have an easier time lowering the fees.
>I was just thinking that a lower fee would draw more users in. You know .... make it cheap or free ... get them addicted .... then raise the price >4) Well, what do you suggest as an alternate pricing
>structure?
>I'll give this some thought .. do some comparing with other independent software and get back to you. Alan>Thanks,
>Jim

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Alan,In response to the above:"...Have you considered making this an option."
Making YD a stand-alone product (optionally) which is not a part of a dynamic online experience does not appeal to me."...if they feel forced to interact"
No one will be forced to interact. But you may be forced to maintain a membership. "...I could just forsee this perhaps hurting your sales"
Sales are not the only consideration. I want to see members playing online and partaking in a unique rail community more than anything else. Part of the reasoning behind the price structure will be to maintain only 'serious' players. People who really love this game and think it is worth the ongoing entertainment value. That is my intended audience. I want to discourage the person who might play once a month, for example."...one of the selling points for the game is that you can make your own maps."
Point well taken. I do think at some point the rail system (on the server) will become 'large enough'. You may have noticed that new trackage is being added to the system at a rate unimaginable with any other rail sim. And at some point only the most impressive maps will be accepted and many, if not most, will be rejected. At that point focus would be on improving existing maps(and actually playing the game!). I have considered what you have described with regards to 'local' maps. I haven't fully thought it through, but it is a good idea and will be even more important when the rail system is more complete.
"... get them addicted .... then raise the price"
You are more devious than I previously thought.
"...do some comparing with other independent software"
Whether independent or not, there is nothing quite like YD!Truly,
Jim

Yard Duty, The National Freight Yard Simulation - http://groups.msn.com/YardDuty

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I am a MSTS player for a bit over a year, and a model railroader for... uh, well too long. Yard duty sound interesting, and I wish you luck, but I thought I'd add in my few cents. If you want to make this a subscription(membership), I'd make it for a year only. I'd also make it downloadable for those that would want to use it on their laptops when away from home (something that you could upload the result a week later). I also would charge much, but offer limited support for this reason. $14.95 is much more than I would pay for a program like this, it's interesting, but I have a layout in the basement, if I want to do a 60 car train, I go into the basement. If I want to view a train, and cut cars from my computer, I play MSTS. I'd make the sessions dowloadable instead of the flat out membership, with a teer or something. 12 session for X, 30 sessions for Y, etc. As for running a unparalleled model layout, it true most layouts aren't as big as the yards you could use, but in a real yard, you don't get to use all of the tracks, only a few, and I like to run the high rail too! Just a few things to chew on...Brother Brownstone

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Thanks for your comments brownstone! It's the first critical post so far. In response:"...I'd make it for a year only"
Why? People might not want to commit so long."...12 session for X, 30 sessions for Y"
There is no database to keep track of this. I prefer to let people play anytime they want and as often as they want during their membership period."...but I have a layout in the basement"
What about the rest of us who don't? Will you invite us over? How many people can fit in the basement? There is no practical limit to the number of Yard Duty users..."...is much more than I would pay for a program like this"
You don't pay for the program. You pay to participate in the largest operating session know to mankind. (and womankind!)"...If I want to view a train, and cut cars from my computer, I play MSTS."
And what do you do after that? Look at them some more? I used to play MSTS, but there is no point in sorting cars in MSTS because you can't do anything with them except say "Gee, these cars are now sorted. This is exactly what sorted cars look like! Ain't they pretty." In Yard Duty there is a purpose to sorting cars! Of course, Yard Duty is not for 'viewing' trains."...if I want to do a 60 car train, I go into the basement."
Where do you go to operate a 200 car train? Do you have a yard that will accomodate 1600 cars like the yard that romanrails has just made for Yard Duty?All in good fun,
JimPS: I look forward receiving your yearly membership fee...

Yard Duty, The National Freight Yard Simulation - http://groups.msn.com/YardDuty

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Isn't sorting more than 60 cars like sorting more than one train? Unless I've be lied to by a few other railroaders, most trains are 60 cars on average, with only a few going over the 100 mark... as for sorting that many, trains are sent in blocks, so sorting a bigger train is really like sorting a small train. As for membership fee, nope, I'll pass. brother brownstone

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Out East here in Pittsburgh, trains are routinely over 60 cars, but it does vary, and there are shorter trains.You are right in that prototype trains are usually blocked, something that hasn't caught on too well yet here.Paul Metzger

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