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Consider this my resignation

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Member since Jul-16-04 · 34 posts

I will no longer be working as part of the maps staff.It is clear that you are not happy with the job I have been doing. I am too slow and too critical for you all. From here on out you guys can make maps as correct or as incorrect as you want. No more nitpicking from me.I came to the conclusion that the bulk of mapmkakers don't want to goto the lengths it takes to properly make and revise a map, and therefore are becoming irritated with me. I also know in todays fast paced world we all want everything yesterday, and between my work and running my maps, and everybody dumping maps on me....I can't work at a pace that will please you all.I invite anyone that wants to review maps to step in and see how fun it is. Lots of work only to have people complain that you are not doing it properly.Anyways...I want to make it clear that I am not irritated or mad at any players, it was just a combination of things that made not want to do this anymore.This should open up much more time for me to play YD which I will enjoy and will eliminate the nitpicking roadblock in map posting that I have apparently become. Thanks,Matt

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RE: Consider this my resignation, dragon27, Dec-07-04, 05:10 PM, (1) RE: Consider this my resignation, LongHoodForward, Dec-07-04, 09:14 PM, (2) RE: Consider this my resignation, DaveHonan, Dec-08-04, 01:27 AM, (3) RE: Consider this my resignation, Atomic Chris, Dec-08-04, 01:29 AM, (4) RE: Consider this my resignation, MAF70, Dec-08-04, 01:56 AM, (5) RE: Consider this my resignation, railengineer, Dec-10-04, 01:28 PM, (6) RE: Consider this my resignation, railengineer, Dec-10-04, 01:29 PM, (7)

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Member since Oct-7-03 · 51 posts

RE: Consider this my resignation

Matt,
I am sorry to learn of your decision to resign from the Map Team, but I understand your reasons. On behalf of the Yard Duty Community I would like to thank you for your efforts throughout your tenure in this post.On a personal note I would like to thank you for all the advice, help and encouragement you have given me, since I started making maps.Thanks,Jim (Dragon)

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Member since Apr-14-03 · 95 posts

RE: Consider this my resignation

Matt and fellow YD'ers,
What can I say other than...I know what you mean! I've been working in the map department in some function or another for as long as I can remember, and I dare say that I have paid my dues to the group in that respect. I have considered numerous times stepping down and just running trains and making my own maps because its a difficult job. But, I have resisted the temptation because I saw that folks who were interested in maintaining very high standards (such as yourself) were few and far between. "I invite anyone that wants to review maps to step in and see how fun it is. Lots of work only to have people complain that you are not doing it properly."I don't think the YD group as a whole really understands what goes into making a map look really good. It takes time and patience... lots of communication between members and checking with available information such as track charts. I have had constant reminders over the past weeks of how many new maps are ready to be reviewed when school is over (read: how much more work I have to do instead of having fun)...and that doesn't really help in the motivation department. Jim has done an unbelievable amount of work to bring the existing maps ready to be posted online...and I can't thank him enough for all the work he has done. I am very surprised that this topic of new maps being the heartbeat of Yard Duty has arisen after well over 20 new maps have been posted in the past two weeks. I'd be very content to sit on my laurels and just play the game at this point. I may very well follow in your footsteps Matt, after all, I'm the only one left of the original map group and I've been doing this 'thankless job' for a loooong time. Corey Vernier
"LongHoodForward"

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Member since Apr-10-03 · 370 posts

RE: Consider this my resignation

Consider this my resignation – image 1

Thankless indeed! Matt and Corey, both well spoken. However, I think some more needs to be said; I guess it could be considered a final "clearing of the air" on my part.Allow me to briefly summarize what I did when reviewing a map (disregarding the process of researching and approving a proposed project):
- Trackwork was given a rough once-over to locate major errors, which were marked for revision
- Trackwork would then be compared with the image and any available track maps/charts; variances would be noted for correction
- A detailed examination of the trackwork would be performed; I would frequently examine curves and complicated yard trackage at the pixel level to ensure proper alignment (a very time-consuming process)
- Every turnout on a map was checked to ensure it was of appropriate length and laid with correct orientation
- Labels were checked for proper format (both in text and style)
- .his files were checked to ensure all information contained in the text was correct, header format was correct, and coordinates were included; I performed a thorough editorial analysis upon the text (I have no idea how many .his files I partially or entirely rewrote)
- Connections were thoroughly checked to ensure correct prototypical routing, all appropriate connections included, written connections matched actual map/exit numbers, etc.(Yes, that's a brief summary.)Of course, all this had to be done in a manner in which I could help designers fix their mistakes, not simply bark out orders. For those who believe I did just bark out orders, I will state that I assumed after a concept had been fully explained once and a correct resubmittal made, no further effort on my part would be needed to describe a problem. My purpose for creating the IMD and MDR was to streamline the review process; by referring designers to the appropriate sections, I expected them to see what was correct and practice their skills until they could readily replicate proper form. If I wrote "turnout too long" on a designer's third submittal with that problem, I expected the designer to recognize the problem and fix it. If I wrote "track spacing bad," well, that's what it meant, and I wanted it fixed -- look at all the other examples out there that had already been approved, don't whine to me about insufficient comments/instructions on my part. If I requested a designer to reference another map to observe a solution to a problem, I expected the designer to study what had already been done correctly and apply those techniques to their maps.I do not apologize for any offense these assumptions of mine may have caused because, quite simply, I expected the designers to achieve a learning curve. It's not a matter of "I'm not any good at maps!," it's simply a matter of taking the time to study what's already been done and then duplicating those techniques in your own maps. Take pride in ensuring you've created a detailed map; don't rush to "finish" a whole bunch of maps in a short time. As Matt demonstrated, if you put in the time and effort to get the map done right the first time, it'll get to the server much quicker.
While I handled all of the work listed above when I began my tenure as Superintendent of Maps way back whenever that was, as the number of projects grew I could not have accomplished what I did without gracious and copious help from Paul, Corey and Matt. Without their aid, the level of quality present in new maps published under our purview could not have been maintained.Frankly, as time progressed, it saddened me that instead of being thanked for our efforts, for investing hundreds of hours of our personal time in YD, for selflessly helping designers improve their skills while sacrificing the time we could spend on other things important to us... Instead of being thanked by those who benefitted from our volunteer efforts... All we seemed to hear were complaints that the process took too long, that stuff that was submitted to the design staff hasn't been posted to the server, that the reviews were too harsh... It was frustrating and demoralizing. I would sometimes dread downloading my email for fear of finding a bunch of emails from designers with complaints.While I do miss participating in the YD community, I am glad I simply no longer have the time to deal with those design supervision issues. I now dread the continuous flood of homework I have to deal with, but I no longer have the stress of worrying about getting homework done and upholding my volunteer commitments to YD.
Additionally, while I'm ranting, I would like to point out that Paul's efforts to help the game grow in its early stages are often overlooked; YD would not be where it is today without his invaluable input. Also, Jim Hill's successful efforts to resume posting maps (and perform other duties) during Jim Wisman's absence has been an incredible help to the game.I would also like to state that Mr. Wisman's continued absence from supporting software (and associated components) which he agreed he would never "<walk> away from ... and <leave> ... unsupported" (Paul M., 06/06/04) when he wrote, "No way, never gonna do that" (06/08/04), among other such reassurances, is an incredible violation of the trust we players had in him and his contractural obligation to provide a service in return for receiving financial consideration for use of his software. I repeat what I wrote in a previous post: Anybody who sent money to Mr. Wisman who has had the payment accepted and has not received an unlock key should contact their credit card company or bank to seek remediation of such payment.
To all the players out there: Please remember that all of the people who are helping to maintain the game's backbone, helping it to grow, helping the new players... are doing this on their own time. Regardless of how strained things may sometimes become, YD is a community and cannot exist otherwise. Before you complain about the lack of new maps or the slow turnaround time from the Maps department or whatever else you want to discuss that isn't a software bug... Think first about who is volunteering their time for that function and what they're giving up from their personal lives, or perhaps what they're involved in that's inhibiting their YD time. Sit back, calm down, enjoy the ride, and offer to help out.
I bid you all good luck. Hopefully you've learned what I've tried to teach (and yes, preach) about map making. Hopefully you'll all learn from the lessons of the past and take proactive action to ensure a major conflict doesn't arise again. For the mapmakers, please make use of the website I put dozens of hours into creating; it's still up, and I don't anticipate taking it down anytime soon.Perhaps someday I'll return to YD; perhaps I'll choose to devote my time to TD3; perhaps I'll get my 500+ photo backlog posted to my website; perhaps come June I'll have a job with long hours and excellent pay and won't have time for YD or TD3 or much of anything. Who knows what the future will bring? I can't wait to find out.73,
-Dave
http://www.davehonan.com/
http://members.trainorders.com/dwhonan/yd/Post quoted above:
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID14/597.html

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Member since Jun-24-04 · 17 posts

RE: Consider this my resignation

Matt and Corey, I certainly understand the amount of work and effort it takes to do what you guys do...and by your own admission, was more than one person could endure. That is why we felt that having more people involved in the process would help to ease the load just a few were bearing for so many. Matt, you are right, we live in a society of instant gratification. I dislike that fact myself. I don't think you were doing a poor job, I think you were trying to do more than one person should be expected to reasonably do. My personal experience with you was pleasant, but disppointing. You didn't like anything I proposed, and were not forthcoming with responses to my proposals. That's fine, you've been busy, that's understandable. It does take the motivation away from people if several proposals are made and no reply is made without prompting. I am not accusing or blaming, just expressing my perspective. I would like to echo Jim's thanks. I know you've done a great job with the task for a long time, I am sorry to see you step down. CSX739

CSX739-CSX

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Member since Jul-16-04 · 34 posts

RE: Consider this my resignation

I understand your frustration Chris. It is just very hard to be on top of responding to things when you are being swamped with proposals from people on top of reviews, and then to top it off have other maps staff asking for maps to be submitted for posting. OH yeah...and on top of all that I have a business to run as well as trains on YD as well as work on my own maps...lol. I am just sorry I wasn't able to be more responsive.As far as adding more people to the maps staff...it seems like a great idea in theory, but this is one case where "too many cooks spoil the pot" is very relevant. What I have found happens with multiple people is that at random times here and there somebody in the chain is not available. Then when this happens everybody starts wanting blood....lol, and talk of finding a way around that person immediately arises. In the end as Dave said, it just takes time, and the best way to speed the process up is for the designer to closely follow the IMD and MDR and work SLOWLY. There is very much a learning curve and I luckily learned quickly that when I did maps slowly but correctly there were much less mistakes. I think everybody just needs to slow down a bit, but thats just me.As far as Ant's idea for regional groups like Ant suggested...this seems like a great idea to me excpet for the matter of map consistency. What happens when one group decides that they will accept a much lower quality of work than others...consistency is thrown out the door. I know one may argue that with all the old subpar YD maps the game is already in this state, but I would argue we were working to overcome this by maintaining stricter guidlines in new maps and working to get revisions done in a timely manner.I am just afraid that as a group we have chosen quantity over quality.Matt

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Member since Aug-17-03 · 29 posts

RE: Consider this my resignation

Matt, DaveI am very sorry to see that you both are stepping down. Dave I know that you were one of the few people (Including Paul, and Corey, and a couple others I have probably forgotten) that REALLY Helped me through my newbie stage in YD. I thank you for all of the help, and sorry for some of the problems that I may have caused.As far as Map Making, I started out wanting to do large projects thinking this can't be that difficult. WOW, was I wrong. I remember my first proposal that was QUICKLY turned down, by Dave, I couldn't figure out why. Then he suggested I do the my first Map... Ashland, NE. After a couple months of trying to figure everything out, and getting very frustrated because Dave kept finding things wrong. It was finally approved, and that made me feel very good. I have since gone way overboard with the maps that I would like to do, and probably am one of the main contributors to the problems that Dave, Corey and Matt have expierienced with constant nagging about maps.As I read the post from Dave, I thought, yeah that was me....I did that, and that, and that. Well I am very SORRY for all of my nagging and frustration that I might have expressed from constantly having corrections to make.I probably should offer my time to take on some of the responsibility of the maps dept. And since I haven't done that, I shouldn't complain. I can not imagine how much you guys go through with us map designers, Especially with me....I have nearly 30 maps that I am working on, Which I know is way over all of the limits that the group has set. I would like to again thank all of the maps staff that have put some much time and effort into Yard Duty.Mark
Railengineer

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Member since Aug-17-03 · 29 posts

RE: Consider this my resignation

That last message should be addressed to all that have done anything with the maps dept.

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