The time for a decision has come

Welcome to all I had a long winded post completed but think that most people here are informed enough about things. This post is to get discussion going on this subject so I have cut it to the brutal, bare bones.Things I think we can agree on:
1. Jim Wiseman had a great idea with this program and we thank him for putting it out.
2. If Jim would just show up and give some support we would all like things to stay the way they are.
3. We do not want to change the program to take it out of Jim's hands or reduce his rights to the program, we need to change it because we have no choice if we want to keep enjoying this pastime.
4. Jim has abandoned us and this program.Things that need to be discussed:
1. We have the ability to re-write the code. Should we?
This will take a couple of months, however we could continue to play normal or if need be using the IRC / e-mail option below.2. We also have the ability to play using IRC and e-mailing files.
Directions would be passed out as to how to accomplish this.
A list of all player e-mail addresses would also need to be posted.3. Does everyone feel that we have exhausted all means to make contact with Jim?
There are many reasons that we need to make this decision. Lack of any communication with Jim is what it all really boils down to. If the server goes down because Jim stops paying we will all be out of the game. This is really just a very general post to get some talk going on this, but we need to choose a course soon.I look forward to all comments or questions on this as we try and solve this as a community of active and concerned players.Tim Herrington

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RE: The time for a decision has come, easygrade, Nov-30-04, 06:58 PM, (1) RE: The time for a decision has come, Smiley, Nov-30-04, 07:23 PM, (2) RE: The time for a decision has come, LongHoodForward, Nov-30-04, 09:39 PM, (3) RE: The time for a decision has come, idiotproofer, Nov-30-04, 10:36 PM, (4) RE: The time for a decision has come, lavander, Dec-01-04, 05:20 AM, (6) RE: The time for a decision has come, lavander, Dec-01-04, 05:12 AM, (5) RE: The time for a decision has come, Davecr0, Dec-01-04, 10:12 AM, (7) RE: The time for a decision has come, easygrade, Dec-01-04, 11:18 AM, (8) RE: The time for a decision has come, pwm33, Dec-01-04, 11:56 AM, (9) RE: The time for a decision has come, pwm33, Dec-01-04, 12:37 PM, (10) RE: The time for a decision has come, lavander, Dec-01-04, 06:36 PM, (11) RE: The time for a decision has come, AlphaMaster, Dec-01-04, 07:51 PM, (12) RE: The time for a decision has come, kcl1s, Dec-01-04, 11:59 PM, (13) RE: The time for a decision has come, dragon27, Dec-02-04, 04:27 AM, (14) RE: The time for a decision has come, lavander, Dec-02-04, 05:33 AM, (15) RE: The time for a decision has come, dragon27, Dec-02-04, 06:21 AM, (16) RE: The time for a decision has come, yellowsignal, Dec-03-04, 07:05 AM, (17) RE: The time for a decision has come, Davecr0, Dec-03-04, 06:45 PM, (18) RE: The time for a decision has come, Archer, Dec-04-04, 01:40 AM, (19) RE: The time for a decision has come, yellowsignal, Dec-04-04, 07:57 AM, (20) RE: The time for a decision has come, yellowsignal, Dec-05-04, 11:09 AM, (21) RE: The time for a decision has come, larsenisi, Dec-05-04, 10:31 PM, (22) RE: The time for a decision has come, yellowsignal, Dec-06-04, 07:44 AM, (23) RE: The time for a decision has come, easygrade, Dec-06-04, 08:52 AM, (24) RE: The time for a decision has come, yellowsignal, Dec-07-04, 01:43 PM, (25)

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I had better add this. While I wish I could take credit for the post above, I am only the guy to post it. The information and the need for the decision was from a group of players online that were talking about options.Tim

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Agreed Tim,
Some course of action may be required its disappointing the Jim hasn't been around for some time or responded to our emails , agreed there will be some sort of legal ramifications involved with someone else taking over but how can that be if the person with the copyright doesn't respond... Jim Wiseman were are you ....Cheers for nowSmiley

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Tim, I agree with you 100%. Once Jim stops paying for the server, its all over. Not a good prospect for our community. I wasn't aware that we had the ability to rewrite the code?? Either way, sounds like a plan to me! Its obvious Jim doesn't care about it anymore anyway.Corey Vernier

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Well my thoughts are as followed
1 if we change things and become different we as a group should elect those who will handle money, business decision and other committees as needed. so we don't have:
1 cliches
2 Favortism
3 selfishesness
4 greed
5 lack of communication
6 Major setbacks
or anything else that takes away from the fun of this game.
As many have seen what happens when 1 person runs the show. JIM H is seeing it firsthand now. I'm sure he is getting stressed from all the comments or changes that happen.On the topic of map committee I'm still waiting after 1 month for Matt to get to my proposal to do a suggested easy route from the YD map suggestions so I prove to you I can do these maps well. Either this is becuse of busY ness (which will be avoided by a committee chosen to work in different parts of the country according to experience of the area for accuratcy) OR personality conflict (which could be avoided by a committee also)On the topic of fianace a committee will help if someone isn't available to give out codes and some has paid plus there SHOULD be accountablity there also when someone is paying the bills (How I don't know but it's possible to track via computer nowadays)on the topic of operations one committee (you have more than 1 in case something happens that they can't be there online to help)can make sure all is being treated fairly and problem players can be mentored in playing.Sorry to long winded but you want my thoughts.

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> we don't have:
> 1 cliches
> 2 Favortism
> 3 selfishesness
> 4 greed
> 5 lack of communication
> 6 Major setbacks Are you sure #1 shouldn't be "cliques", as in an "in crowed", "cool people", "us vs. them", and so on?> On the topic of fianace a committee will help if someone isn't
> available to give out codes and some has paid plus there SHOULD be
> accountablity there also when someone is paying the bills (How I
> don't know but it's possible to track via computer nowadays)Here's a novel concept - you pay your bill and *automatically* get the registration code. Plenty of software out there does it, so it's gotta be possible, but I can't say how complex it is. However, doing things automatically would certainly eliminate the turnaround time & requirement for human intervention.I've always liked the idea of community owned, community managed since software, like YardDuty, is built so much on a strong community. We can eliminate most of the problems with the existing setup by simply diversifying the jobs. Lack of communication? Designate a commitee member as the person who communicates what is currently going on to the masses. Lack of financial accountability? Have the committee treasurer/finance manager report to the committee chair quarterly/annually/whatever. Treat the whole thing like a business.Heck, we could even have a special class of user called an "investor" to which the committee has a relationship to similar to that of shareholders.Anyway......spouting off random thoughts too early in the morning.I'm certainly interested to see where this is going.:Lawrence

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I think you might be surprised how many people who walked away from things earlier, due to instability and infighting, would return to the game if things became more community owned and community driven.I can only speak for myself when I say that I might certainly consider being involved in some way, depending on how things evolve.Still watching from the sidelines....:Lawrence

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I believe the only pressing problem is the server. No one is quite sure how long Jim W has paid for it. However, if it does go down, we can still maintain the game by playing offline & passing trains via e-mail. This has been done at various times previously. Chat can be achieved by IRC & IM. Also the Yahoo group is still up & running.How we proceed in the future can be discussed at a leisurely pace, there is no real need for panic or snap decisions.I would suggest Lawrence, that you & anyone thinking of rejoining the game, should do so now. Your involvement would be wellcomed by all current players. There is nothing to be gained from watching from the sidelines.

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I wanted to agree with you Dave there is no need to make any kind of snap decision and maybe on the original post I made it sound a little too urgent.Also wanted to ecourage Lawrence to get involved now. It's free! And the selection of yards is pretty open I would say.The last part of this is on "How to do this IRC/e-mail?" I don't do IM normally (always feel like people are watching me). So if we are going to do this we need to set up the "rules" for lack of a better term.
1. What IM program will we all have to use? AIM, ICQ, MSN, that's just the ones i'm familiar with.2. How do we set up YD not to connect with the internet?
I like the idea of running the trains with out haveing everyone watch my every move. But I know that most players really enjoy the friends and chatting.3. If we can decide on what IRC program to use can we incorporate our e-mail addresses so there will always be an up-to-date list that can be accessed by all players?Just a few more thought's,Tim

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Short reply:1. Use IRC itself. This is what is being used in yd right now. A program named Trillian is available that can handle IRC, AIM, MSN, ICQ & Yahoo Messenger.
http://www.trillian.cc/downloads/
2nd best, AIM
2. add <space>/offline after the .exe file name in starting yd. this will force it to run offline.
3. not sureI'll reply to the original posts and comments when I have more time.Paul MetzgerCP Rail System (D&H)
"Courtesy keeps customers"

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In addition to the server issue, there is still the file size issue. Even with the regional ini's, we will at some point reach the 64K file size limitation again, and then we will not be able to add any more maps.That said, I agree that the server issue is the main concern. We can function offline using irc/email, if necessary, but this is not the ideal setup.Paul MetzgerCP Rail System (D&H)
"Courtesy keeps customers"

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Theoretically, we could "simply" get more and more granular with respect to the regions. Not idea, but it would certainly get around the 64k limit....

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If we can change the server that it connects to, I am willing to donate space from my server. I've been thinking about playing again, I just have no key.

Danny - Pittsburgh

There's a light at the end of every tunnel, just pray it's not a train.

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I tried YD a while back. I liked the game but not the lack of support. I would join in again if it is community supported.Keith

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Lawrence,Is this The Royal "We" or did I miss something?Going "more granular" does not get around the 64K limit. But more on this in a later post.Jim (Dragon)

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Jim,Yep - that would be the "Royal We", refering to the Yard Duty Community. Similar to the way the community made the decision to go to the existing regional ini file system.And while we would never get around the 64k limit, we would effectively make it moot. Uncomfortable & inconvienient (I mean, who would want 265,000 different INI files?), but you could keep splitting up the existing INI files into more and more granular pieces, none which would go over the magic 64k limit.Of course, my knowledge of how this whole process works is limited to what I have read here.:lavander

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Lawrence,
If you are truly part of the YD Community then come join it - and dont lurk around unseen in the background.You should go and (re-)read the original post on the regional ini files (http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID14/690.html) - and you will see that in order to maintain a Community (a stated goal) the number of maps that can be posted is finite.Jim (Dragon)

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>I would suggest (...)that you & anyone thinking of
>rejoining the game, should do so now. Your involvement would
>be wellcomed by all current players. There is nothing to be
>gained from watching from the sidelines. Hi all, i have been in touch with Lawrence over the past days via e-mail. I too am willing to come back and participate. I do have a few points i want to mention:1. If we can do this with volunteers only, so it wouldn´t cost us anything, i think the whole project would be a lot simpler. The only real costs i see is running a server and an internet connection. See Alphamaster´s post on this. Personally i am very wary of paying for a game like this since the whole YD experience.
2. Rebuilding the code for the entire program is something that took Jim ages, even if we work at it full speed it will take considerable time. BUT, it would make things easier to manage, maybe the 64K limit can be bypassed. Other members or developers can make tools to enhance the entire game-experience.
3. There should be some democratic process for choosing the people who run the show. Some basic rules should work fine i think. These rules would cover: how do we put someone in charge, how do we replace the people in charge if they do stuff that isn´t in the interest of the community (or plays with cigars and interns or starts wars) how do we handle disagreements between individual players or groups of players. The bottom line is we all have to work together and respect each other.

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Hello Erik long time.Now, I have to say to Erik, Lawrence & any other people who are sitting in the stalls.Myself & all the other players would be glad of your company. However, would you please remember the guys who are still here running & playing YD. Before you all go off on a tangent about what you can/could do, just think about us.Dragon Jim has put so much in to keep Yd alive. All other current players have offered support & constructive critiscm where apropriate. We have worked together to keep the whole thing running.The bottom line is - we have forgotten individual grievances & managed it so far. With more players on board we can manage it even further. Don't sit there thinking about it, join us & see what we can do.

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I came here to put my two cents in but I see Dave has pretty much expressed how I feel to a tee.In regard to the ex-players lurking around, we'd love for you to come back. If you do, please, get up to speed. The differences of the past have been forgotten and YD is once again a lot of fun. So much fun in fact that there are times that it's hard to work any trains because of the camaraderie that exists on the chat server.There are already contingency plans in the works for the future of the game and many of the questions that have been posed are being delt with. So com'on back and join us, your missing a very pleasent way to spend a few hours a week doing something you like to do.Duncan

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I never meant to offend anyone or say anything wrong. I have been out of touch with YD for a long time now so from the things i read here on the forum i assumed there was still some internal disagreement.I have to admit that i think it's a great accomplishment that YD is still moving forward despite Jim's absence.I'll try and get YD running again in Trial mode later today or tomorrow, i hope you guys can explain how i can get back up to speed with all changed aspects of the game.

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I finally managed to install YD again, but now i get an error saying it cant connect to the ftp server and it quits after telling me it hasnt got the .ini file.Can anyone help me out on what to do next?

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Try turning off your firewall..that might help.Dan Larsen

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I have no firewall here, nothing has changed since in my configuration since i left YD 10 months ago, i did get a DSL connection but i haven't had any probs with other programs yet.

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Yellowsignal, Here are a few things I would check at first. If these don't work send me an e-mail and we could hook up on any of the IM service's to maybe work thru this. I just D/L YD a few weeks back to put on another computer and it worked perfect, so we CAN get yours working!OK first make sure that you completely removed/un-installed your old YD program. ( to make sure your registry is pointing at the correct set of files). Another thing...Did you get the YD program from the YD site? If you tried to just start working with Jim Hill's stuff from the yahoo site it will not work.If your getting that it can't find the ini file it sounds like one of the above things too me. Hope this helps, my e-mail is tjsoda@wowway.com if you need more guesses Tim Herrington
easygrade

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It works, thanks Tim! See you on IRC (i take it this still runs?)

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