About time!

I was looking through some old posts in this forum, and I found one from June 2002 where I mentioned that I had started a Birney car. I looked through my dusty projects folder and found it. A bit of fiddling around over the weekend came up with this.These shots are taken on my old favourite testing ground for Milwaukee cars, the NEC at Elkton!

This is Austrailan Birney car, as it finished service in 1972. I'll be doing US, Canadian and a few other ones, with two and four doors, correct side loading, system-specific details and the like. Any requests? Just like the traction scene in 1916-1924, I reckon we can flood the market with these puppies! I pity the virtual passengers!Cheers,
Matt Austin

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RE: About time!, tryagin, Aug-09-04, 08:34 PM, (1) RE: About time!, Swissie, Aug-10-04, 04:59 AM, (2) RE: About time!, century242, Aug-10-04, 02:30 PM, (3) RE: About time!----Personally I think SN has been ignor, century242, Aug-10-04, 03:46 PM, (4) When is a Birney not a Birney?, philmoberg, Aug-10-04, 04:47 PM, (5) RE: About time!, davereage, Aug-10-04, 11:20 PM, (6) RE: About time!, msavianney, Aug-11-04, 01:27 AM, (7) RE: About time!, tryagin, Aug-11-04, 01:33 AM, (8) RE: About time!, smace, Aug-11-04, 08:43 AM, (9) RE: About time!, msavianney, Aug-11-04, 05:19 PM, (10) RE: About time!, ssw, Aug-11-04, 07:14 PM, (11) RE: About time!, msavianney, Aug-11-04, 08:24 PM, (12) RE: About time!, Swissie, Aug-12-04, 04:43 AM, (13) RE: About time!, tryagin, Aug-12-04, 01:30 PM, (14) RE: About time!, Swissie, Aug-12-04, 02:59 PM, (15) RE: About time!, msavianney, Aug-12-04, 05:55 PM, (16) RE: About time!, tryagin, Aug-12-04, 06:57 PM, (17) RE: About time!, msavianney, Aug-12-04, 09:12 PM, (18) RE: About time!, Swissie, Aug-13-04, 04:57 AM, (19) RE: About time!, msavianney, Aug-13-04, 07:50 AM, (20) RE: About time!, tryagin, Aug-13-04, 10:56 AM, (21) RE: About time!, msavianney, Aug-13-04, 08:36 PM, (23) RE: About time!, tryagin, Aug-13-04, 10:44 PM, (24) RE: About time!, philmoberg, Aug-14-04, 09:03 AM, (25) RE: About time!, tryagin, Aug-13-04, 11:14 AM, (22)

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Matt,Good to see your work again. The Birney type will be a very welcome addition to the MSTS trolley fleet. If you have the time, may I make a request for a Pacific Electric Version?
http://www.oerm.org/pages/pe331.htmlAlso, any plans for the double-truck Birney? Your Birney is looking great!Tim

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-04 AT 05:01 AM (EST)

Hi Matt,I agree with Tim - some Birney's have been missing from our trolley fleets for all too long. After all, you said it: They were flooded to about a gazillion systems. What about a bi-directional version (two poles, two ends?) Kinda like:
Lukas a.k.a Swissie
Edit: Clicked "Upload" too early when I wanted to attach the pix...

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I caught a ride on #62 last year, pretty sweetRegards,
Erik Pierson
Sacramento, Cawww.sacramentolocomotiveworks.com

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Another one of Tim's fine project.Regards,
Erik Pierson
Sacramento, Cawww.sacramentolocomotiveworks.com

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The discussion of Birney variants brings to mind the range of subtle differences among the ConnCo/CR&L fleet back in the '20s. Among them were cars often mistaken for Birneys, which were really near-copies by Osgood Bradley, being sufficiently different to get around the patents. One of these is shown below, which you can find on the Dave's Electric Railroads site:http://206.103.49.193/ctco/htm/drb01.htmNote the destination sign, evenly-spaced windows and ventilators, for example. I know of only one single-trucker preserved, ConnCo 2350, at East Haven. There is also an ex-Holyoke double truck car at East Windsor (Warehouse Point), though the ends were somewhat modified when it served in Montreal... -Phil

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Well if you're looking to do some Canadian ones, how about Halifax? Here's some links to pictures:http://www.davesrailpix.com/odds/ns/htm/halifax01.htm
http://www.davesrailpix.com/odds/ns/ns.htmThat's all a quick serach turned up, but if you are interested, let me know, I'm sure i can dig up more photos.Dave Reage - Beta Tester
Halifax, Canada

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Hi gents,You bet the PE will be represented! I don't know if I can have Gene Kelly on the roof, however! Check this out!
http://users.snowcrest.net/marnells/singin.htmI've designed the car in such a way that all lengths, door arrangements and roof variations will be able to be replicated. Sacramento and Halifax are on the list. I'll keep you posted.Cheers,
Matt Austin

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WoW! He did all his own stunts, too. That's cool, Matt! This is the car at Orange Empire Railway Museum now.Thanks, mate!Tim

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How about a factory plain version to use as a flat car load and for custom repaints?

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Yep, it will be available in a 'blank' form for reskinners, also as a kit with freight animation shapes to allow for crests, heralds, lettering above or below the windows and crisp route signs.Cheers,
Matt

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Can you be bribed into a Smith and Webster? Bradley Linda
Waco, Texas

TKW Paint Shop

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>Can you be bribed into a Smith and Webster? Yeah, sure. Details would be gratefully received.More progress. I've fixed up the window spacing to make it correct, added more internal detail and other than the ceiling, it is nearly there.More shots tonight.Cheers,
Matt

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-12-04 AT 04:44 AM (EST)

Hi Matt,another thingy: Would it be asking too much to consider doing .s file versions for different wire heights? Although many trolley related routes use the Mesaba standard of 6.2m, a few (will) use the NEC standard of 7.2m, and then there also is the 5.4m standard of default Japan1 some users love to run electric stuff under. Just as an idea to give some more choice, and to strengthen the point of the community harmonizing voluntarily for these standards? Thanks for giving it a thought!Lukas a.k.a Swissie

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Hi Lukas, I already put that bug in Matt's ear in an email. Hopefully he got it. This is a good idea, one which you know I've done on my last few models. And it doesn't take that much extra work. I always have a couple of trolley wheels, shoes and pantographs in the "parts-bin" each set at the different heights, so that all I have to do is add the collector (wheel_6.dsp or wheel_7.dsp for example) and adjust the trolley pole to fit ( Their axis is set at their rotational pivot). Then re-name the project to show which wire height it's to run under, "PE637_7" for instance, shows it's for the standard NEC wire height of 7.2 meters. "PE637" would be for the "standard" Mesaba height of 6.2 meters. Then each shape file would have their own .eng file with their nomenclature signifying their wire height for easy reference in ConBuilders. All this is in one directory, sharing the same aces.Tim

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Hi Timyes, I am very grateful the way you have arranged things with your latest models (and those custom wishes I kept bugging you with...). I do actually follow your naming technology on my repaints in progress with a _7m suffix for all NEC standard versions, and no suffix for the Mesaba standard versions (which is and will probably remain the predominant wire height for trolley routes, despite the other projects). Lukas a.k.a Swissie

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Hi Swissie,Yep, I will be doing varying wire height versions, to cater for everyone. The more, the merrier!Here is last night's effort. This one is in response to Tim Muir's request for a PE Birney. As Tim has done so much for us all, and given us all so much, this is the least I could do. Tim, this one's for you mate!I'm currently working on panels to allow for crisper lettering.Cheers,
Matt

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Hey Matt, Thank You!.That's great! Yep panels would allow crisper lettering, and you could alpha-out the background and make the panels TransNorm if you wanted to take it even farther. Here's a bitmap (in jpeg) of the headlight found on the PE Birneys, if you want it:

(you might want to flip it 180 degrees for the correct PE type. This is from the Wanganui, NZ tram I made for Neville Brook.)Thanks again, mate, I love it!!Tim

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Lovely, thanks Tim.I wanted to send a message to you but I can't get into Hotmail at the mo. I'll use your naming setup and do the models that way. Half an hour gave this version (still need to do panels for lettering)
Cheers,
Matt

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Hi Matt,that's taking shape in a great way, I think we'll have a winner here with your Birney. One thing it might still need paint-job wise is this rivet effect on the sides. But may I raise another point that's left with me? I've been looking at the various pictures of progress, with all the variations. With the body coming out more and more detailed and accurate, I just had the gut feeling that something with the single truck still looked a bit odd, but at first I couldn't quite attach the feeling to a specific point other than it looked somewhat "light". It was only on the recent screenshots that I noticed it even had motors in place. Still when comparing it to pictures and the few Birney's I've seen in museums, I feel that there is more of a "see-through" effect on that truck than what one might see on a proto car, making it look a bit like an unpowered trailer rather than a motorized car. I know the Brineys were built light and were notorious for their bumpyness - more than you'd expect on a single truck car that will always be bumpy by nature. Still I wonder if it wouldn't need some more structures under the body such as resistors, brake pipes, a compressor - or basically a few boxes and drums installed between the truck and the body, thus also giving it a more solid appearance there? Please take that as a question, and not an issue - I only have few references at hand to judge it myself, and no builder's plans. Maybe Tim could also share his profound knowledge with us here Lukas a.k.a Swissie

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Hi Lukas,Thanks for your thoughts. I'm always open to costructive ways of improving my models. Actually, I got so excited about repaints that I stopped actual work on the car. I'll fill in the blanks over the weekend, as well as adding panels for better detail. Another thing is font types. Tim, what font have you been using for your Hollywoods? Any ideas for possible colour schemes is appreciated, along with font and colour detail.Cheers,
Matt

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Matt,I really like the front-end treatment on the Ft.Collins 21. The fonts that I used on the Hollywoods (did you get yours BTW?) is RRRoman (zipped below if you don't already have it). I found that with the numbers on the 637, I had to use RRRoman for the 6 and 3, but Engravers MT for the 7 because it better matched the PE style of seven than the RR roman does.
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/411ce09a43e6a706.zipThe lettering is applied to panels from this map.
For more on this I have a wee tutorial here:
http://www.elvastower.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=279Cheers!Tim

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Thanks alot Tim. I've looked at your tute, and it makes alot of sense. For some of my projects, I've been using polys retextured like yours, but only now have I learnt about using alpha. I mucked around a bit on two new reskins, the Indiana RR and New York's Third Ave Ry. Shown is the TARS car with poly numbers and the IRR car before and after poly numbers.


I'm still not sure of the correct font for the IRR car, so I made my own by laying black letters on gold bold letters to get the shading. The gold does go right round the letters. I'm also not sure whether the TARS Birneys wore these colours, modelled on the bigger cars, but you've gotta admit that it is a snazzy scheme!The lettering on the IRR car is a bit distorted in the 'after' view because I had to reduce the pic size, but I'm working on it. We now have, west coast, Rockies, Midwest and east coast Birneys with more to come. Now I have to reign in my enthusiasm and actually finish the structure of the car!Cheers,
Matt

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Neat Matt, these just get better and better. Your Third Avenue car looks really nice. I like the black on gold lettering of the IR car too. Are the safety bars over the windows an alpha too? They look 3D.Tim

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I don't know about TARS, but I do have a picture somewhere of Birney belonging the subsidiary Steinway Lines wearing this colour scheme ... I just have to find the book it's in. -Phil

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Profound Knowledge? Um, sorry, Lukas. I don't have any good photos of Birneys' underfloor details, or any good plans that show same. It's all "dark territory" as far as my resources are concerned. Tim

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