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Tram doors

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Reading Topic #437

Member since Jan-13-04 · 208 posts

How come the number one trams and the Modern city trams only have doors on one side? Most LRV's I have seen have doors on both sides.

ridin the PCC Streetcars.

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RE: Tram doors, Tim Frost, Feb-24-04, 03:28 AM, (1) RE: Tram doors, Eric in UK, Feb-24-04, 09:28 AM, (2) RE: Tram doors, Swissie, Feb-24-04, 12:13 PM, (3) RE: Tram doors, Tim Frost, Feb-24-04, 07:35 PM, (4) RE: Tram doors, Swissie, Feb-25-04, 04:30 PM, (5) RE: Tram doors, pancratios, Mar-02-04, 06:20 PM, (6)

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Member since Apr-9-03 · 1264 posts

RE: Tram doors

Tram doors – image 1

Because MSTS only allows for animation of doors using the pantograph feature. The doors either must open on one side, both sides, or not at all.Tim FrostTram doors – image 2

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Member since Apr-8-03 · 55 posts

RE: Tram doors

The Modern City and Number One trams are single-ended. I have made consists with 4 sections, forward, middle flipped, middle normal and forward flipped. This give a double-ended tram with doors opening on both sides at the same time.Eric in UK

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Member since Sep-27-02 · 891 posts

RE: Tram doors

LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-04 AT 12:22 PM (EST)

Hi Bradhig,to go one step further back than my previous two posters, as this is the point you probably have to start at to follow this traction gang's logic here Trolleys, trams, LRV's, whatever you like to call them, and their systems can be divided into two different "families". The distinguishing element is whether a system and its equipment is set up for single or mono-directional operations, or for bi-directional operations.Systems build for single direction operations are quite common among trolley systems, for a while it actually looked they were going to replace the bi-directional concept almost completely. Single directional systems have reversal loops or - rarely - reversing wyes at each terminus of a route, and often also at major en-route locations where turning around a car/consist might be desirable for operational reasons. Consequently, single directional cars do always travel forward when in line service. This is reflected by the fact that their doors will be on one side only (right hand side if the system travels on the right track, left hand side if the system travels on the left hand track), and similarily the car will only feature one cab at the front end. Of course these cars still do have a reverser and can go backwards as well, be it for shuntnig in the yard, be it in emergency situations when a trolley needs to be backed out of a certain section of the system. Mono-directional cars might even have an auxiliary cab or rather control stand in the back (again, for the shunting), but often of a very basic layout. This does not disqualify them from being called mono-directional, though.Many PCC's in the US, many of the cars on existing Western European systems, cars on almost all Eastern European systems (mostly standardized in the Communist days to use the Tatra-style car which you know as Number1 trams) are single direction cars. Although their systems might have been built as bi-directional systems in the founding days, loops were added later to speed up turning a train around, especially during the days and on systemas where "trains" where the rule, i.e. a motorcar pulling anything from one to four trailers (maybe even more, I'm currently not aware of any system using more than four trailers, but feel free to correct me here)That said, it is almost obvious in which aspect bi-directional systems differ. Their termini do not have a loop or wye, but simply a dead end stub and a switch letting you change over to the other track for the return trip. Consequently, these systems require cars with doors on both sides, and two fully blown control stands or cabs either side. In the early days of the trolley system, this was the standard on almost any system, btw.As mentioned above, the benefits of mono-directional operations made many systems convert there termini with loops, usually over an extended period of time, thus slowly replacing bi-directional cars with new single directional cars route by route. The trend somehow reversed with many of the LRV systems that came and still come into being since the final quarter of the 20th century. A lot of these new systems embrace the bi-directional concept, as in most cases, the new systems use articulated motorcars - MUed to trains if necessary - that are much easier to turn around than a train with unpowered trailers. Furthermore, a bidirectional terminus often eats up less psace than a loop, another factor when re-introducing a LRT system in an already densly packed city.Now, not that I wanted to confuse you... But if you want the full story, then I should also brief you in that there also exists a hybrid form of the two approaches described above. You guessed it right, it is called the semi-bi-directional approach. In these cases, trolley or LRT routes also end without loops or wyes, and have trains reverse their sense of travelling for the return trip. But while the cars have doors either side, they only feature one cab per unit. This means that trains will always consist of at least two units coupled together, with the rear unit "flipped" around to look the other way, in MSTS words. Here's an example:Tram doors – image 3
Tram doors – image 4
Picture taken on an interurban style LRT route passing in front of my office: The train consists of three semi-bidrectional cars, with the first two units looking foward, the third one looking backwards (see orientation of pantographs).Hope that gives you the desired answer, and I wish you a nice dayLukas a.k.a Swissie

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Member since Apr-9-03 · 1264 posts

RE: Tram doors

Tram doors – image 5

Lukas, you never cease to amaze me with your extensive traction knowledge. I had no idea there was such a thing as semi-bi-directional running. Absolutely fascinating! Thank you!Tim FrostTram doors – image 6

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Member since Sep-27-02 · 891 posts

RE: Tram doors

LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-04 AT 04:33 PM (EST)

> Lukas, you never cease to amaze me with your extensive traction knowledge. I had no idea there was such a thing as semi-bi-directional running. Absolutely fascinating! Thank you!*** blushes ***Hi Tim, you are welcome - although I do not know if this term would exist in English. I had to translate that from our German language terms, which traditionally knew the "Ein-Richtungs Triebwagen" (single or one directional motorcar) and "Zwei-Richtungs Triebwagen" (bi or two directional motorcar). When such hybrids as the above arrived on the scene, the term of the "Ein-Einhalb-Richtungs Triebwagen" (one and a half, or semi-bidirectional motorcar) was coined in traction literature. The system depicted above is obviously satisfied with their performance, as it is in the process of receiving 13 articulated low-floor cars of a similar layout, which will always run in pairs or trains of three. The idea is basically old, if you want you could loosly compare it with US RR's adding only one cab to E- or F-Class diesels, and then calling an A-B-A or A-B-B-A configuration one locomotive. Similar approaches also exist in the form of EMU sets coupled permanently (i.e. inseparably) or semi-permanently (i.e. cars can be uncoupled for maintenance or shunting, but are not suited to run without each other). DLW EMU sets represented by a MSTS model of Island Electric come to my mind here.Btw, I also recall that there is another variant of an unusual configuration. In the small Austrian town of Gmunden, a short 1.something trolley route connects the town down at the shores of a lake with the RR station situated a good 300 ft / 100 metres above town, atop a hill, and has surprisingly survived into present times depiste its tiny nature: The "system" consists only of this short route which has just four or five stops, all of which have their platforms hillside. Thus the two most recent cars of the route (still dating back to the late 1950s and early 1960s) have their doors only on one side, but they have two fully equiped cabs... Lukas a.k.a Swissie
Edited for the odd typo

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Member since Feb-12-04 · 2 posts

RE: Tram doors

There's nowt so diverse as trams!In the UK we had the Swansea and Mumbles Railway that ran from the 1860's to the late 1950's. It ran from Swansea in South Wales to the Mumbles peninsula vitually along the coast all the way except for the town section in Swansea. Trams were horse-drawn to begin with and replaced by steam hauled 'trains' in the latter part of the 19thC. Electrified at the turn of the century, a fleet of double-deck double ended 102 seater trams were provided and these were pantograph fitted. They were equipped for multiple-unit working and as Mumbles was a popular holiday venue for the people of South Wales they regularly worked as two car sets. Summer weekends would see these twin-sets overflowing on every journey!When the system was electrified it was re-ordered so that all the 'stations' (tram stops) were on the same (coast) side. This allowed for the tramcars to be single sided - that is with doors at each end but both on the same side. Full sets of control gear were fitted at each end: so double ended but single sided!One of these huge cars was saved for preservation but was later lost to vandalism. In view of its design I can't really imagine where it could have been used at any of the Tramway museums or elsewhere. If I remember rightly, the old Alexandria (Egypt) double-deckers were of a similar layout but I can't recall offhand if they were double-ended.Bob Sanders
@ Birkenhead Tramways & MTPS

Bob Sanders

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