PCC and CLRV

Here are two projects in progress. The PCC is not exporting properly from GMAX, MSTS looks for the .s file in the routes folder for some reason. I am baking the CLRV textures from this high res model and building a low poly version in Lightwave to map them on to. I have been using 3dCanvas before, but I'm trying GMAX this time. I do all the modeling in Lightwave.

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RE: PCC and CLRV, P42number1, Jan-04-04, 04:15 PM, (1) RE: PCC and CLRV, Eric in UK, Jan-05-04, 03:43 AM, (5) RE: PCC and CLRV, smallspy, Jan-04-04, 05:55 PM, (2) RE: PCC and CLRV, P42number1, Jan-04-04, 08:35 PM, (3) RE: PCC and CLRV, mharter, Jan-04-04, 09:14 PM, (4) RE: PCC and CLRV, smallspy, Jan-05-04, 07:07 PM, (6) RE: PCC and CLRV, tryagin, Jan-06-04, 02:08 PM, (7) RE: PCC and CLRV, Nightstar2001, Jan-07-04, 02:02 PM, (8) RE: PCC and CLRV, Thirdrail70, Jan-07-04, 06:26 PM, (9) RE: PCC and CLRV, mharter, Jan-07-04, 10:44 PM, (10) RE: PCC and CLRV, Nightstar2001, Jan-08-04, 08:16 AM, (11) RE: PCC and CLRV, Thirdrail70, Jan-09-04, 10:32 AM, (12) RE: PCC and CLRV, davereage, Feb-03-04, 05:34 PM, (13) RE: PCC and CLRV, Eric in UK, Feb-04-04, 10:29 AM, (14) RE: PCC and CLRV, davereage, Feb-04-04, 06:34 PM, (15)

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Execellent!Now if we just had a route to run these on...

Matt Repino
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

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There are some routes already available as a temporary stop-gap, but we need to know the wire height(s), as they vary from route to route.Eric in UK

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Matt, you da man!My offer of ENG file help still stands if you need.DanMaking a mockery of serious business for 23 years.

www.greatlakesrail.com

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Here's a CLRV Bell...

Matt Repino
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Attachments
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3ff8bf4153e3486d.zip

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The .eng file would be great! The bell sound too, but I can't open the .zip for some reason. Does anyone know a good polygon count for a trolley model in train sim? I was very conservative with the PCC, but I think the CLRV needs a little more detail. I will use LOD to keep things from bogging down when when you pass the yard full of these cars!The texture maps on the CLRV will be quite a bit higher res than the PCC because it won't need to take so many different repaints, so it should look a bit sharper I hope. I will be using renderings from the high res model to create the textures for the low res MSTS one, so shadow detail should be quite realistic.Matt

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Matt, before I give you a proper answer....how many polys was your PCC?I would think that because of the CLRV's large picture windows, that you would almost certainly have to include an interior. Plus, because streetcars aren't run in 10+ car trains, you can afford to go a little overboard with the polys. So, I would have to guess that an increase of 30% over the PCC would be okay.May I make two suggestions for variations of the CLRV shape? One, when the CLRV's were delivered, they had couplers (as you well know)...maybe make them and the "safety skirts" alphable details? And two, as part of the Scarborough LRT line, 22 CLRV's would have been equipped with pantographs and run in multiple. Is it possible to do a variation with the panto? (it was a single-arm model, very similar to a Faively type).I'll start playing around with the ENG files, and should have something for you in the next couple of days.Dan
Making a mockery of serious business for 23 years.

www.greatlakesrail.com

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Hi Matt,To respond to your question about poly counts and trolleys, my models usually run around 10,000-to 12,000 max. But I am a detail nut, and have a medium- to high-end computer. But the fact that trolleys, at least the types and era I model, run at the most three car trains, it isn't as punishing as a long train. On the other hand, my steeplecabs run at around 12k+, and I have pulled 30 car trains double-headed through a very densely detailed town on a route in development with mediochre performance (6fps) with all sliders maxed. I say go for the detail, and if you do use LODs ( I don't ), so much the better, eh? That CLRV looks very interesting and cool, for a new machine .Timtimmuir@wcn.net

Street and Interurban Electric Railway Models
Sumpter Valley B&B Gang
Willamette Valley Route
(No timetable for release)

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Interestingly enough the CLRV isn't that new. They are only operated in Toronto and for a very short test period were tested no the Boston Green line. The CLRV's were pushed into service on September 30, 1979 on the 507 Long Branch route (now merged with the 501 Queen). At the time of introduction the CLRV which were produced by Ontario Transit Development Corporation (OTDC owned by the Ontario Government) later renamed to Urban Transit Development Corporation (UTDC) had couplers and where used by Boston during tests but where never used by the TTC in regular service and only used to tow dead cars off the line. They were eventually removed and safety skirts installed. Also the roll sign display of 521 Connaught was removed in 2000 along with all of the other 521 exposures on all active cars.
Just some information for those of you who may never have been to Toronto or don’t know much about the CLRV’s themselves.Andrew L.

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Matt:
Terrific work on both the PCC and the CLRV. It's been awhile since I've done repaints on your excellent PCC model. I feel that most of my repaints are due for an upgrade and there are some things I would do differently now. I did have a problem with the Boston unit with the center doors on each side as the driver's side center door was mapped one or two pixels lower than the other side which meant that there was a stagger to the horizontal belt-rail and other graphic lines. correcting the door on one side made the other side off by about the same amount (2 pixels). If you get a chance... The CLRV, although it operates only in Toronto and briefly in Boston, is a good-looking modern streetcar. I prefer the poles over the pantograph as a personal preference for these models. Looks like you have the proportions right-on as you did the PCC, which can't have been an easy model to create. I'm glad to see you're back in the game.Frederick Dreany
Island Electric, East

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I would like to upgrade the UV maps anyway, but I don't want to mess up everyones repaints. I will see if I can fix that vertical alignment glitch on the MBTA car though. I have switched to GMAX because it support the import of Lightwave models more easily than 3dCanvas does, but I have had trouble getting the GMAX models to work in MSTS. If it isn't one thing it is another!One thing I'll do for the PCC is to add some detail to the interior and optimize the UV layout for better texture resolution. The exterior can't be optimized much without making repaints more difficult.I've got the low-poly CLRV almost ready to go into GMAX now, but last night my computer smoked! I scavanged it's working parts and combined it with another PC, now I'm working on reorganizing files on the frankenPC. I should be back up and running soon. Make backups often, and don't buy cheap parts when you build a PC!Matt

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I don't know if its me or the angle of that photo of the CLRV but the top front area just doesn't seem quite right. Can't really say for sure maybe its just me. Anyways none the less if you haven't heard of it a great place to look is www.transit.toronto.on.ca there are tons of pictures and even diagrams of both the CLRV and its sister the ALRV. As well as information and pictures of the rest of the TTC service fleet. As well as lots of history on the almost 80 year old system along with the original subway line turning 50 next year (between Eglington and Union).Andrew L.

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Matt:
My computer of several years appeared to have bitten the dust last November so I gave it to my son-in-law who likes to tinker with computers and told him it's his if he can get it working or not. It turned out that the monitor seemed to be the problem. Now my son-in-law has a new computer and I stepped up to a more modern unit which I needed badly. The transition was upsetting though because I was in the middle of an MSTS project with my Island Electric partner, Jeff Link. I know whereof you speak when you advise others to put their files on CDs. Just letting you know you have company in that regard. Looking forward to your upcoming models.Frederick Dreany
Island Electric, East

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Wow, what great news! I just spent a weekend in Toronto which included many trips on the 504 King from Roncevalles St. to Downtown and was thinking "I wish someone would build a CLRV".Can't express how happy this makes me!Any plans to include more than one destination sign (using different skins)?Regarding the "stop-gap" routes for street running streetcars (I just downloaded the TTC PCC cars in the library here), could someone give me some advice as to what the best of those routes is?Thanks

Dave Reage
Halifax, Canada

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Dave,Two routes in the Train-sim library are:-Modern City Tramway (3 zip files mctv1, mctv1_1 and mctinsta) which might simulate Toronto a little, although based on UK routes, but with road traffic on the right.Number One Tramway (not_v1.zip) has some urban areas.I have run PCC on both. The wire height is correct at 5.4 m.If you wanted to venture into German web-sites and routes, there are several, but three that spring to mind are Berlin's route 27E with urban buildings, Rheinbahn, a small area in Dusseldorf, and Tower City Tramway, which is a fictitious urban route.Eric in UK

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Thanks Eric!I have both on my hard drive and will give them a shot with PCC's tonight.

Dave Reage
Halifax, Canada

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