Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim

I've been modeling the complex arrangements of pipe-stanchions surrounding the alter that supported the farebox at the center of early versions of the Hollywood cars. It really is an eye-full for the passenger!

The farebox was attached to the platform in the middle of the car, inside the ring. The power outlet for the farebox can be seen to the left of the platform, The box-shaped thingys on either side of the ring were switches controlling the doors. The conductor was stationed here, until the cars were converted to one-man operation in the late forties.I will attempt to build the controllers and brake systems, and all end details next, without the s/ds spoiling my fun.

Then it's all downhill from there!Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, mrmike, Jan-02-04, 03:52 AM, (1) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, Tim Frost, Jan-02-04, 08:04 AM, (2) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, tryagin, Jan-02-04, 11:14 AM, (5) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, philmoberg, Jan-02-04, 09:54 AM, (3) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, tryagin, Jan-02-04, 11:21 AM, (6) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, philmoberg, Jan-02-04, 12:04 PM, (7) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, tryagin, Jan-02-04, 12:35 PM, (8) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, tryagin, Jan-02-04, 11:09 AM, (4) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, mrmike, Jan-02-04, 12:40 PM, (9) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, tryagin, Jan-02-04, 09:09 PM, (10) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, dvdhoven, Jan-03-04, 01:18 AM, (11) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, Overkill211, Jan-03-04, 10:44 PM, (12) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, tryagin, Jan-04-04, 00:00 AM, (13) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, mrmike, Jan-04-04, 00:20 AM, (14) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, tryagin, Jan-04-04, 01:07 AM, (15) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, mrmike, Jan-04-04, 05:35 AM, (16) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, Thirdrail70, Jan-09-04, 10:18 AM, (17) RE: Pacific Electric Jungle-Jim, tryagin, Jan-09-04, 11:23 AM, (18) RE: Hollywood Lights, tryagin, Jan-16-04, 02:32 AM, (19) RE: Hollywood Lights, Tim Frost, Jan-16-04, 05:31 AM, (20) RE: Hollywood Lights, tryagin, Jan-16-04, 11:42 AM, (21) RE: Hollywood Lights, jspinella2000, Jan-16-04, 12:14 PM, (22) RE: Hollywood Lights, tryagin, Jan-16-04, 07:40 PM, (24) RE: Hollywood Lights, mrmike, Jan-17-04, 11:14 AM, (25) RE: Hollywood Lights, tryagin, Jan-17-04, 01:17 PM, (26) RE: Hollywood Lights, tryagin, Jan-21-04, 08:12 PM, (29) RE: Hollywood Lights, mrmike, Jan-21-04, 08:57 PM, (30) RE: Hollywood Lights, jspinella2000, Jan-17-04, 02:58 PM, (27) RE: Hollywood Lights, tryagin, Jan-17-04, 03:43 PM, (28) RE: Hollywood Lights, Tim Frost, Jan-16-04, 03:44 PM, (23)

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-04 AT 03:53 AM (EST)

Hi Tim, From my recollection the arrangement you depict would prevent through access to the whole car. I believe that one of the support stanchions should be removed. My Computer specs are in my profile
Mike
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It looks lovely but I must admit it sure looks like you'd get stuck at the front end of the car. The models look to be coming along VERY nicely. I still have those PE books if there's anything else you want me to look up. Otherwise, they're probably going back sometime next week. Tim Frost
Everyone goes home happy if everyone goes home safe. Do it the Union Atlantic Way!

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Hi Tim,The only item that I'd like is a close-up of the trolley shoe and harp. I suppose it's really not that crucial, but, I would like a little more info before creating the parts. Other than that, I'd say send 'em back and thank you very much for what you have shared so far, and my thanks to the library where you borrowed them from. Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-04 AT 09:55 AM (EST)

While I don't know much of the specific history of the Hollywood cars, I do know there was a lot of experimentation in the electric railway industry, beginning about ninety years ago, on passenger flow within streetcars, particularly with respect to developing effective fare collection systems for larger cars. Several such approaches involved the segregation of longer-distance passengers from those going shorter distances, and I suspect that may have had something to do with this virtuoso performace in pipe-fitting.As is still quite often true these days, transport theory found itself at some variance from the realities of practical operation; and many of these efforts were quickly abandoned, with their associated hardware being as quickly scrapped. The move to one-man cars further accelerated this process. No doubt, the center sections of the Hollywood cars underwent many changes, perhaps the most radical being on those survivors that went to Portland. -Phil

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-04 AT 11:23 AM (EST)

Hi Phil,
It's interesting to note, that in the picture I posted below of the 5050 class Hollywood, it is after their conversion to one-man operation, and the obstacle is still in place. I wonder if the Portland cars still had this contraption too? I'll have to ask someone over at the oregon street railways yahoo group page to find that out, for the Portland Traction version I am making alongside the PE cars.
Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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Well ... as they used to say in the late, lamented Traction & Models Magazine, "There's a prototype for everything." I'm a bit surprised that PE didn't scrounge all the scrap sales they could ... but then again, PE wasn't your ordinary, cash-strapped streetcar system. The nice thing about this is that it makes restoration fo the survivors a whole lot easier. On most systems, the modificatins to center-door cars ranged from extensive to extreme ... if they weren't scrapped outright.Thanks for posting the interior shot below. That's how we learn things. Clearly, you studied it in great detail... -Phil

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I still have a few of my old issues of T&M, and Traction Heritage too. Very useful rags. The interior photo was thru the courtesy of Jim Walker. Below is a shot of my adjustments this morning:

You can see now there's plenty of room ( 30" ) for an average adult to pass by the outboard stanchions.It is because of Jim Walker and Tim Frost that I have such good pictures to work and study from. Jim even sent me Color photos of the Orange Empire Ry Museum's #717 insides. These have proved to be invaluable in details of the stanchions here, plus the drop-down wooden bench seats over the doors ( which I have yet to build) and the controls. Thanks again to all who've been so helpful with this project!Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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Hi Mike,Thanks for your observations and suggestion, which made me take a closer look at the photo I was using for reference. The stanchions are correct as to their placement, but upon closer examination I see i made them too wide, hence their clogging the aisleway. But it will only require a resizing in the x and z planes. Which I have done. I will make adjustments to the farebox-mount and electrical outlet next.
Thanks again for pointing this out to me. Photo below shows the arrangement in a 5050 class Holly:
Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-02-04 AT 12:40 PM (EST)

Tim,

Now that's what I remember first hand. As to the carbon trolley shoe, I have a clear image of the shoe in my head, It is hard for me to describe, except that is partially wraps the trolley wire. As you might or might not know the trolley wire is triangular shaped. I know that when you complete these models, they will be the best that they can be. My Computer specs are in my profile
Mike
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*I know that when you complete these models, they will be the best that they can be.*Thanks, Mike, I hope you're right. I'm trying really hard to keep it simple, yet remain true to the prototypes. This has been the funnest car I've ever built. My biggest worry is how am I going to make all those compound-curved handlebars on the seat-backs, without msts phoning home? Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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Hi,It looks very impressive Tim! Very realistic. Great job you're doing.Dick van den Hoven

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Say, Tim...
The numerous trips I made in #717 at OERM might lend some ideas for the interior model. I seem to remember the floor having a slight downward slope from the truck pivot point to the center entry doors. The step up wasn't all that bad on these cars (compared to the LARy end-loaders). Secondly, I believe there was a third set of handrails at the center of each center door. Third, there were retractable (folding, sliding... whatever) seats at the center doors, which bridged the entire entrance, fastening to the third set of rails. I only remember these so vividly because only the East side of the car was accessible to passengers on the property, so the West doors were locked out, with the seats down. I suspect these may have been an addition when the one-man conversion was made, but 717 never lost it's farebox assembly. Still a top-notch interior, either way.

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Thanks, Ok211!
My models of the Hollywoods have the the sloping floors, just as you mentioned. Also, I am planning on the drop-down wooden seats, as they were standard equipment. You're right about the handrails (stanchions) at the center doors. I have them in my parts bin, but when i add them, and run the cars in the sim, MSTS phones home (s/ds). Until I discover the way around this, I will leave these out. I'd sure like to have a good close-up shot, or two, of that Farebox! Do you know what kind it is?Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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Hi, The last time I saw #717, which was a very long time ago, it had a Johnson farebox with a 24v motor. They also could be hand cranked. My Computer specs are in my profile
Mike
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This is the second bit of good news I've heard tonight on fareboxes. It seems that Portland's Holly's used Johnson Fareboxes too. I have access to one, in a local antique mall. I'm hoping it's still there and that they'll let me take photos of it from all angles.Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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Tim, Here is one angle, albeit small. This is a 12v model. My Computer specs are in my profile
Mike
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Tim:
We're following your progress with amazement at your skills and the quality of your workmanship. It's wonderful!Frederick Dreany
Island Electric, East

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Thanks Fred,I appreciate that! As I've said before, this has been a fun car to build, and I've made new aquaintances through the project. I am taking a little break from it while I take care of some pressing matters in the real world.
Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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We can read the funnies while commuting home after work now that they turned on the lights:
Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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!!!!!!!!! Coming along very nicely still I see! Looking good Tim.I'm sorry, I wasn't able to find any close-up pictures of 600-series trucks. The best I can do for a 600 series is below, and an 1100 series truck is below that, which appears to be quite similar.There is a GREAT close-up of a 1200-series curved equalized truck on page 88 (for my reference should you want it) but it's the wrong type so I haven't scanned it. If you think you may want to later do a 1200-series car with this truck, let me know and I will scan it before I return the book.Hope these help. Tim Frost
Everyone goes home happy if everyone goes home safe. Do it the Union Atlantic Way!

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Thats OK, Tim. I have the trucks done. The coupler is to my satisfaction, altho I suppose it could be better. My main concern with this car has been the interior. I have been recieving much help with this aspect. So much so, that I now have views form many angles and different eras. And it seems that certain details differed between different cars, too. I'm going for the lowest poly choices, for reasons we are all too familiar with. But I've learned to build the interior as a separate model and add it into the car using the freightanim line in the engine file. So far, so good (fingers crossed). What I'd reaally like is some copies of the car cards that were stuck above the windows, those period advertisings that were reading material for the bored multitudes enroute.But as far as your offer to scan the 1200 coupler, I don't plan on building one. At least not in the near future. But it doesn't hurt to have the data at hand. If you want to scan that pic, I wouldn't turn it away!Thanks Tim,Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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Hi Tim,>But I've learned to build the interior as a separate model and add
>it into the car using the freightanim line in the engine file.What advantage does this have as opposed to linking the interior to
the exterior in your modelling program?regards,
Joseph

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Hi Joseph,I've reached the point where the addition of any more parts makes the model ( or is it the sim?) unstable. Recently I've found that by adding parts with the freight anim line, it doesn't call home to uncle bill. Before, I had these light-ventilation housings as part of the model's shape. The sim went s/ds on me at close cam angles with the 4-view cam. Now, with these ( along with a few other parts) added as separate shapes in the freightanim line, the model is more stable. Chuck Zeiler made me aware of this use of the freightanim line with a steeplecab that needed class-lights on the cab's 4 corners, and no matter how I tried to make them, they'd always crash the sim. He suggested this method, so I sent him the shapes and textures for the classification lamps, and he put them in this way, and now the steeplecabs are very stable and haven't crashed the sim yet. So far, so good.

We'll see how it turns out.Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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Tim, Look back a few posts to the one I made with the Johnson Fare Box. it might be the right size to mount on the plate. My Computer specs are in my profile
Mike
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Mike, it looks to me to be the exact type of farebox used by the company. It is a Johnson Type D, electric. What I need to do is get pics of all sides and top, so I can make the BMP's. I just need to get away to the antique shop here in town that has one for sale. Hopefully they'll let me take pix of it. Problem is getting time away. Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore your post back there. I saw it and meant to reply, but got sidetracked and forgot about it. Thank you for the pic, BTW. With much appreciation,Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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Just as a follow-up to the farebox story: I did get to the antique shop and got 5 photos of the farebox there. It appears to be older than the type the PE used in the later Hollywoods. It is hand-cranked and all black, no nickle showing at all. One of the fellas that works there showed up on my doorstep last night with a newer Type D in his arms - from Portland Traction! He's offering it to sell me, and I think I'll buy. It is a 12-Volt Johnson Type D with a brass top. I will be making a model of this farebox for the Hollywood. -Thanks Roger!!!Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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Tim, Can't wait to see the finished model. My Computer specs are in my profile
Mike
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I suppose you could also use the freight animation to add passengers into the car making it easier to have variations of full and empty trams. I might try this out with a tram I'm working on at the moment.kind regards
Joseph

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Yes, Joseph, as a matter of fact, the guys over at Port City Car Company added a motorman to the cabs of an open car and all the Mesaba interurbans released last year, and Chuck added the crew to the cabs of the Oregon Electric steeplecabs this way too. Timtimmuir@wcn.net

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Err, it's the 1200 truck, not the coupler, but I think thats what you meant. I'll scan it tonight. Tim Frost
Everyone goes home happy if everyone goes home safe. Do it the Union Atlantic Way!

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