Answer To Pacific Electric Coupler Question

Hi all,
I started a new thread as the other one that posed the question was getting long. I am reprinting the reply I received from the Orange Empire Railway Museum.
Mr. Rothenberg,
Please accept an apology for the long response time ... please find the following as answer to your question. Thank you for your inquiry! Had to refer to an expert ... as I am totally non-tech person ...Susie Davis
Corporate Secretary
@Orange Empire Railway MuseumThe Pacific Electric MU cars used four different kinds of couplers. The oldest MU cars such as the 500, 800, 950, and 1000 class cars used
radial ARA Janney knuckle couplers with separate MU jumpers. The former LA&R cars 446-448, and 450-465 through were equipped with an
early Westinghouse Air Brake Co automatic couplers that made mechanical,
air and electric connections. Even with these couplers the cars
retained the old jumper cable receptacles. These couplers were
reportedly originally delivered on the Headley-Doyle center-entrance
"dragons"; but were removed after only one experimental trip and applied
to the ex- LA&R cars. The 600-759 class center-entrance "Hollywood" cars were equipped with
Westinghouse K-1-A couplers. These couplers made mechanical, air, and
electrical (MU) connections. These couplers were also used on the Los
Angeles Railway H, K, and L class cars when they were operated in MU
service. The K-1-A couplers were also used on the PE's double-end, multiple-unit
PCC cars in the 5000 series. The Toronto MU PCC cars also used these
couplers. The 1200 class steel cars (and matching combines in 1370 series) used
the Westinghouse Air Brake Co's H-2-A automatic couplers with MU
contacts;
this is the same kind that the New York subway has used for years. The
H-2-A couplers were also used on the PE 1100 series cars and the
"blimps" from the San Francisco Bay area. Brian Norden
My Computer specs are in my profile
Mike
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RE: ANSWER TO PACIFIC ELECTRIC COUPLER QUESTION, philmoberg, Dec-08-03, 06:54 PM, (1) RE: ANSWER TO PACIFIC ELECTRIC COUPLER QUESTION, tryagin, Dec-08-03, 11:34 PM, (2) RE: ANSWER TO PACIFIC ELECTRIC COUPLER QUESTION, mrmike, Dec-09-03, 00:48 AM, (3) RE: ANSWER TO PACIFIC ELECTRIC COUPLER QUESTION, tryagin, Dec-10-03, 02:17 PM, (4) RE: ANSWER TO PACIFIC ELECTRIC COUPLER QUESTION, Swissie, Dec-13-03, 01:43 PM, (5) RE: ANSWER TO PACIFIC ELECTRIC COUPLER QUESTION, tryagin, Dec-13-03, 04:56 PM, (6) RE: ANSWER TO PACIFIC ELECTRIC COUPLER QUESTION, mrmike, Dec-13-03, 05:46 PM, (7) RE: ANSWER TO PACIFIC ELECTRIC COUPLER QUESTION, tryagin, Dec-13-03, 07:15 PM, (8)

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In that case, it might be worthwhile to have a look http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2298 and other photos at nycsubway.org, where there are loads of sharp photos. PE's jumper arrangements may have been different - just as there are similar jumper variations with the Tomlinson couplers - but the basic coupler head is the same. The H-2-A was essentially just an enlarged K-1-A. -Phil

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Good answer! Highly informative and tecnical. I have built a coupler that is pretty close, for MSTS. I'm sure a more detailed unit could be built. But, for our purposes, it will do. It is made by re-sizing and point-shifting the Island Electric subway coupler and added the details that hug the coupler unit.What we really need now, are photos of the controls, brake valves, and everything at the inside ends. I'm recieving lots of help with the Hollywood project, and I wish to say thanks to everyone. Thanks, Mike.Timtimmuir@wcn.net

Electric Railroad 3D Models
Sumpter Valley B&B Gang
Willamette Valley Route
(No timetable for release)

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-03 AT 00:48 AM (EST)

Hi Tim,
Sadly those pictures are in my head, as I used run those cars at the museum in the 1960s. From memory the controller,cannot remember type, was a 7 step. 4 series & 3 series-parallel. This was on the left side. The brake valve,on the right, was, I believe, an E-3. First position was release. Second was Lap. Third was Application. Fourth was Emergency. To the right of the Brake lever & below was the control for the front air operated door & step. The center doors were Electrically operated by the conductor during 2 man operation.
I think there are control shots in Ira Sweats Interurban Specials. If you can find these in the Public Library they will be of immense help. I used to have a complete set. However they were stolen a long time ago.
Any other information that I might be able to furnish to hasten the release of those PE cars?
My Computer specs are in my profile
Mike
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LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-03 AT 02:44 PM (EST)

Hi Mike,Well, lets see what other pictures are in your head. I am building the seats now, and I notice in a plan view of the interior I have there are two seats that face inwards. One by the front door, and another across the isle and in the corner ( where I'd be sitting! ). What my plans don't show is if the backs of these seats were perpendicular to the wall, or angled like the main seats. It is also my understanding that the main seats were revolving, so they could be flipped for return trips. But I've seen photos of them where the seats at the front half point to that end, while the rear seats point to the rear (???) Was this entirely up to the conductor/ motorman, or do you know? Thanks Edit: I added these two present views of the seats as of 12-10-03


I have also yet to make the chromium handlebars and seat stanchions.the centre-facing seats by the center doors, and re-texture the floors, which were concrete. Then, I've come to find out that the interiors were cream from the window sills up, and dark green below, so pay no attention to the interior colors now. Timtimmuir@wcn.net

Electric Railroad 3D Models
Sumpter Valley B&B Gang
Willamette Valley Route
(No timetable for release)

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Hi all,returning to the forum after two weeks of vacation - and already I am in the Hollywood spirit. Albeit I didn't see any more "big red cars" when I flew over said area last night on my way home > It is also my understanding that the main seats were revolving, so they could be flipped for return trips. Would you mean the entire seat, Tim, or just the back? A lot of contemporary cars of the Hollywoods that I know from all over the world have basically the same system where just the back of the seat is mounted on a kind of rail or hinge to eiter side of the bench so that either the conductor or even the passengers themselves could flip the back of any seat / bench individually, thus allowing passengers to either sit in what we call today "airplane style" forward facing rows, or to use two adjacent rows to form a compartment of their own with one row of seats turned backwards facing other forward looking row. Seing the bench-style seats in your screenshot, I wonder if that system was also used on the Hollywoods, or whether the entire seat was indeed mounted in a way to allow it to swivel. That is technically a possibility, 1960s 1st class coaches of the German Railroads use(d) such "swiveling chairs" that could be turned in their entirety, but I remember these chairs and the swiveling mechanism as one hell of a massive and heavy mechanism...Whatever mechanism was used, I could imagine that if indeed travellers were allowed to align the seats to their needs and preferences individually, you would get a random order of the seats while the cars were in operation, while I would also expect that for official purposes like advertising material pictures, factory or repair shop pictures etc. the PE would look to arrange the seats neatly, i.e. all of them looking in the same direction...Just my 2c worth, before finally giving in to 11 hours of jet-lag. (Yawn)Lukas a.k.a Swissie

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Hey Swissie, welcome back! Hope you had a great trip!The seats and backs appear to be one solid unit from the photos I've recieved. By the way, I've been getting huge downloads in my mailbox from Paul Deverter and Jim Walker of Holly interiors, and some very detailed cabviews, albeit a run-down unit, but enough left to get a good idea of the arrangements. Also now known to me is how the wooden "jump seats" were arranged to fold down in front of the center doors, what the overhead over the motorman's position looked like, all the controls, signs ( watch your step, etc.), lighting fixtures, etc. It is so much info, it will take some time to digest it all and convert it to TSM and MSTS reality. Plus, Steve Thompson's Sumpter Valley Ry. needs a trestle built, and I've got a nasty bug that's keeping me down and out of the model-building game. I hope to get back to it soon. I'm really anxious to try some ideas that come to me in my sleep. Yah, I dream about working in TSM....I'm really sick!!! Cheers!Timtimmuir@wcn.net

Electric Railroad 3D Models
Sumpter Valley B&B Gang
Willamette Valley Route
(No timetable for release)

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Tim,
Is that the Jim Walker that was at the Orange Empire Railway Museum? My Computer specs are in my profile
Mike
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I believe it is. He didn't elaborate on his identity, or anything else for that matter. But I started recieving stuff from him after posting my needs on the TrolleysCA Yahoo groupsite. He's very quiet.But I sure am appreciative of his time and efforts in transmitting all that data.
Timtimmuir@wcn.net

Electric Railroad 3D Models
Sumpter Valley B&B Gang
Willamette Valley Route
(No timetable for release)

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