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Anyone like to make this?

Started by OCrailfan 12 posts 6 min read

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OCrailfanMember since Apr-13-03 · 277 posts

Anyone like to make this? – image 1

Photo by Bruce WellsAnyone like to make this? – image 2

Mike
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Mike's Photo Page
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Anyone like to make this? – image 3
The Strasburg Railroad, The Road to Paradise for 171 years.

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RE: Anyone like to make this?.........., tryagin, Nov-15-03, 05:34 PM, (1) RE: Anyone like to make this?.........., OCrailfan, Nov-17-03, 05:17 PM, (2) RE: Anyone like to make this?.........., tryagin, Nov-17-03, 07:55 PM, (3) RE: Anyone like to make this?.........., philmoberg, Nov-18-03, 07:58 AM, (4) RE: Anyone like to make this?.........., gatewaycityca, Dec-09-03, 02:36 PM, (5) RE: Anyone like to make this?.........., philmoberg, Dec-09-03, 06:42 PM, (6) RE: Anyone like to make this?.........., gatewaycityca, Dec-09-03, 08:56 PM, (7) RE: Anyone like to make this?.........., philmoberg, Dec-10-03, 07:51 AM, (8) RE: Anyone like to make this?.........., philmoberg, Dec-10-03, 04:30 PM, (11) RE: Anyone like to make this?.........., OCrailfan, Dec-10-03, 10:04 AM, (9) RE: Anyone like to make this?.........., dchagar, Dec-10-03, 12:29 PM, (10)

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tryaginCharter Member · 1400 posts

RE: Anyone like to make this?..........

There are some PCC's in the library already. This is a beautiful restoration. Where and what line is it?Timtimmuir@wcn.net

Electric Railroad 3D Models
Sumpter Valley B&B Gang
Willamette Valley Route
(No timetable for release)

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OCrailfanMember since Apr-13-03 · 277 posts

RE: Anyone like to make this?..........

Anyone like to make this? – image 4

Well, its not a PCC. its a Red Arrow Brilliner from Philadelphia,PA. Thats Car #14 at the PA Trolley Museum in Arden,PA.

Mike
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Mike's Photo Page
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Anyone like to make this? – image 5
The Strasburg Railroad, The Road to Paradise for 171 years.

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tryaginCharter Member · 1400 posts

RE: Anyone like to make this?..........

That's a Brill Liner??? Looks a whole lot like a PCC to me. I always thought the Brills were boxier in appearance than the St.Louis Cars. But, what do I know? I'm a woodie fan, and these modern buggies all look the same! Timtimmuir@wcn.net

Electric Railroad 3D Models
Sumpter Valley B&B Gang
Willamette Valley Route
(No timetable for release)

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philmobergCharter Member · 164 posts

RE: Anyone like to make this?..........

Yeah, Tim, that's a St. Louie. The Brilliners were numbered lower and the windshields were flat, like this... -PhilAnyone like to make this? – image 6

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gatewaycitycaMember since Aug-26-03 · 37 posts

RE: Anyone like to make this?..........

LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-03 AT 02:43 PM (EST)

Mike, could you repost that picture from your original message? It didn't show up for some reason. I went to your photo page and I'm not sure which car you were talking about. Thanks.Chris T.

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philmobergCharter Member · 164 posts

RE: Anyone like to make this?..........

LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-03 AT 06:42 PM (EST)

The Pennsylvania Trolley Museum moved the photo in Mike's original post. IIRC, the same shot now appears here http://pa-trolley.org/newCar14.htm along with a shot of the car prior to restoration. IMHO, PTM has one of the nicest restorations I've ever seen. -Phil

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gatewaycitycaMember since Aug-26-03 · 37 posts

RE: Anyone like to make this?..........

That's amazing! I would definitely have to agree with you, Phil. That is definitely one of the best restorations I have ever seen too. Comparing the before and after pictures, it's incredible what they were able to do with it.Okay, I know I might be beating a dead horse here...but are we SURE that's not a PCC car? I have to agree with Tim. It sure looks like one to me! And I think PCC is more of a broad term used to refer to streamlined cars made after the President's Conference Committee, and maybe not necessarily a type of car made by a specific builder. Streamlined trolley cars like that first appeared in the late 1930s, right? I need to brush up on my traction history a little.Chris T.

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philmobergCharter Member · 164 posts

RE: Anyone like to make this?..........

It is and isn't a PCC, which is to say, it's a long story. These cars did use some PCC technology, but apparently not enough dor the Committee to regard them as PCCs. I'll dig up the story this afternoon/evening, after I get back from work... -Phil

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philmobergCharter Member · 164 posts

RE: Anyone like to make this?..........

Here's the short version of the long story. To quote Schneider and Carlson, authors of PCC The Car that Fought Back, "trucks and body make a PCC." This goes for the the whole control package as well. The bodies and operator's controls of these Red Arrow cars are stock PCC patent designs; however, what's underneath is another story.The main reason for this is that the West Chester line was still in in service when these cars were purchased. This was a classic, fast, side-of-the-road operation, and these cars were capable of 70 mph to suit it. As a result, Commonwealth trucks and larger motors were specified, along with a different set of control equipment to handle the higher current. This made these cars sufficiently different from a PCC that the Committee collected no royalties. Of course, these cars came at a premium price of $45,000 a copy, as compared to $39,500 for the very similar-looking Illinois Terminal cars, which are true PCCs.I'd heartily recommend Schneider's and Carlson's book, and its companion volume, PCC from Coast to Coast, to anybody interested in the surprisingly complex history of PCCs and their derivatives. The authors did an excellent job of making an easy and edifying read of what would otherwise a very tedious subject. -Phil

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dchagarCharter Member · 411 posts

RE: Anyone like to make this?..........

These cars have a PCC "look-alike" body, and are double-ended. The biggest difference is that they do NOT ride on PCC style trucks.
There's pictures of both the Brilliners and PCC types on my web site here: http://206.103.49.193/pw/pstc.htm

Dave

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