Started a Tram Route

After working with several railroad route projects, I decided to try out a tram route. For now, I chose to call it "Suburban Light Rail". It will include double-track main line with single-track branches, signalled naturally. Setting: fictional -- I simply could not figure out how to make tram tracks fit to the streets of my home town!So, it will be Light Rail -- or Fast Tram -- or Stadtbahn -- or Snabspårväg. Whatever you call a tram line that runs between suburbs and surrounding towns.Route plans are something like this:- Line A: Airport - Centrum - Technopolis (about 25 km)
- Line B: Town #1 - Centrum - Town #2 (about 20 km)
- Line C: Suburban Loop (about 8 km)Trying my luck with XTracks track shapes.Suggestions welcome.
Northern Greetings from
TVRail
President & CEO, Dakota Eastern Railroad
Member of Yonder Locomotive Works

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RE: Started a Tram Route..., P42number1, Nov-05-03, 12:22 PM, (1) RE: Started a Tram Route..., Eric in UK, Nov-05-03, 12:31 PM, (2) RE: Started a Tram Route..., Tim Frost, Nov-05-03, 01:10 PM, (3) RE: Started a Tram Route..., tvrail, Nov-06-03, 08:47 AM, (4) RE: Started a Tram Route..., Eric in UK, Nov-06-03, 11:45 AM, (5) RE: Started a Tram Route..., tvrail, Nov-06-03, 01:46 PM, (6) RE: Started a Tram Route..., Tim Frost, Nov-06-03, 03:00 PM, (7) RE: Started a Tram Route..., Eric in UK, Nov-06-03, 04:21 PM, (8) RE: Started a Tram Route..., tvrail, Nov-06-03, 05:17 PM, (9) RE: Started a Tram Route..., Tim Frost, Nov-06-03, 05:25 PM, (10) RE: Started a Tram Route..., tvrail, Nov-06-03, 05:39 PM, (11) RE: Started a Tram Route..., Tim Frost, Nov-06-03, 08:44 PM, (12) RE: Started a Tram Route..., Eric in UK, Nov-07-03, 08:37 AM, (13) RE: Started a Tram Route..., tvrail, Nov-10-03, 02:44 AM, (14)

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You Rock.I've been waiting for one of these.

Matt Repino
Philadelphia, PA

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Sounds like a good project. I'll watch out for progress.I would make one plea, that you make the overhead wire height and the pantograph height the same. I find considerable variation with wire heights of 5.4 m, 5.5 m, 5.6 m, 6m and 6.2 m. Similarly, trams (and PCC) vary considerably. Some between 5.4 m. and 5.6 m, others at maybe 5.9 m, and 6 m and more at 6.2 m.If you are not modelling the trams, maybe the first thing to do is to settle on a particular series of trams with the same pantograph height and then set the route wire height to suit that. It is not possible to have one route for all the variations of pantographs.You may find difficulties in signalling or in running AI cars with single track.Best of luck.Eric in UK

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-03 AT 01:11 PM (EST)

Well, as a suggestion, I would say to have it signalled in both directions on both tracks on the doubletracked portions. This way, it can be even more universal, and users from here in the USA can run it right-hand track while people in the UK, Australia, South Africa... umm, any other countries that drive on the wrong side of the street (just kidding) can drive on the left, and still take advantage of realistic signalling in activities.If this was implied when you said 'signalled naturally' I apologize, but I figured it was worth suggesting anyhow.Sounds like a very good project! I'm looking forward to it already! Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:

The Union Atlantic Railroad: Your stuff's important!

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Thank you for the interest.I settled in to these terms:Wire height: 5.5 m
I like Modern City Trams and they can't go much faster than 80 km/h, they seem to have 5.4m cable height I think (suggestions welcome)Speed Limits:
- 90 km/h on main line outside urban areas
- 60 km/h through urban areas with road crossings
- 40 km/h street runningSignalling:
railroad-like (Finnish-style) out on the main line, simple traffic lights through towns. Bi-directional running wasn't planned at first -- perhaps a left-hand separate version could done -- but will be taken into reconsideration. Signal system (railroad-style signals) completed last night and found to be operable on single-track line. Street running will be among vehicular traffic on mostly one-way streets and with very few instances where two tracks of different directions run on same street.Single-Track portions
located at the extremities of the system. Some of them will have passing sidings at more or less regular intervals.Help wanted
Reverse loops at the ends of single-track sections... MSTS doesn't seem to like them: are they absolutely necessary? Difficulties with signalling of the said.Hmm... what else? Throw in some items, I will take a note on them.
Northern Greetings from
TVRail
President & CEO, Dakota Eastern Railroad
Member of Yonder Locomotive Works

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The Modern City Tramway trams use wire height 5.4m. There are several others in the NGT8D series on some German web-sites. They are three section articulated trams, single-ended, with operating doors and turn indicators. I use most of them, in various liveries, fictitious and real.Other trams using 5.4m wire height are some Duewag 1960's articulated trams and three K4000 trams in Koln livery (modern), and I think that the PCC cars at Train-sim were 5.4 m, when I ran them.In some routes, there are sometimes discrepancies between the wire height and the attachment point to it of the masts, gantries or span wires, which is a little disappointing. I believe that existing masts can be scaled to carry the wire correctly.I don't think reverse loops or wyes work on single track, so you need double-ended trams which you can run in reverse, with a reasonable reverse cabview and reversing lights. I apply that to the three type of German trams which run on 6m wire on another route.I hope this is helpful.Eric in UK

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Eric,Thank you for the reply.Loops do seem to create some problems, however I have had no problems with wyes (since they do not form an enclosed loop). At the current end-of-line I have a dead end terminal, realistic or not.There's one thing about NGT8D trams: they don't look good when two or more sets of three are coupled together (morning rush needs), is there a solution to this? I can make an adapter section, naturally.And what comes to gantries, I will most likely make my own so I can be sure that they fit to the wire height.
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TVRail
President & CEO, Dakota Eastern Railroad
Member of Yonder Locomotive Works

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Well, you can get away with reverse loops but really only one or you have to be SUPER careful. MCT gets away with this because it only has one loop, and the switches at Nunnery Square help this. You can do two but you'll have to be cautios. My suggestion would be to just use double-ended trams and maybe have a reversing loop at one end. MUNI in San Francisco does this.Embarcadero station is a stub for some trains (N trains continue to the Ballpark and the Caltrain Station) and the operators 'switch ends' here.L and N trains going the other direction (outbound from downtown) have a reversing loop at the end of the route, so the operator drives the same 'end' Embarcadero to Embarcadero, then switches, lather rinse repeat! http://world.nycsubway.org/us/sf/munimetro.htmlThere is a track map in there somewhere, which is old but shows what I'm talking about. I can't find it at present. Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:

The Union Atlantic Railroad: Your stuff's important!

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I made a consist of three NGT8D trams and I can see what you mean. It is probably because there are no couplers. B80D trams with couplers are fine in multiple. I suppose you could make an adaptor consisting of the couplers which would be added to the consist between each tram. Adding couplers to the tram would require the author's permission and would be quite a job anyway.I have made NGT8D double-ended trams by flipping the middle section, adding a middle section unflipped and then the front section flipped.
You have doors opening on both sides of course and two pantographs.Eric in UK

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Eric:I will add only one double-track loop at the Airport. It is at the end of the doubletrack line so this should not cause much problems.I would like to get an NGT8D tram with doors on both sides on each section, and with "multiple-unit capability" (without adapters).Most of the single-track platforms will be on the same side of the tracks throughout, but not all. Would it be extremely unrealistic to create passing sidings with center platforms?
Northern Greetings from
TVRail
President & CEO, Dakota Eastern Railroad
Member of Yonder Locomotive Works

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Eric, didn't know they didn't have a cab at both end, actually.I don't think it would be unrealistic to have passing sidings with a centre platform. For lines that don't have enough ridership to warrant double-tracking, it's ideal. The tram entering the station generally stays on the 'main' and passes over a closed facing point. Then as it leaves the station, it goes back onto the single main taking a non-facing (forgot the word) point. This works well because then the trams do not have to slow down before the station, but are already going slow to take the point on the way out.|
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|That's the best I can do in ASCII text. I have paint would draw a picture, but I don't have irfanview or anything else to convert it to jpg with on this computer. I can't install stuff on the work machines, either.The tram would stay on the right hand track as it moves up, then switch to the left as it continues on its way AFTER stopping at the station.I hope that makes sense... if it doesn't, just ignore me! Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:

The Union Atlantic Railroad: Your stuff's important!

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Yep, makes sense. I have one that is every bit of a railroad passing siding (meaning that you'll go through either normal or deverging at both ends), meaning|
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|This is just because the ridership from that location does not necesarily warrant stopping each time, but nevertheless there's a passing siding just in case.But like said your solution ofWith center platforms:
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With outer platforms:
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|The doors are on right side. This way the tram will arrive through normalized facing-point switch and leaves through trailing-point switch. In real life the switches would be spring-switches. I may force the signal system to display STOP at these locations if the switch is diverging at the arrival end.
Northern Greetings from
TVRail
President & CEO, Dakota Eastern Railroad
Member of Yonder Locomotive Works

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I like the idea of STOP if the springswitch is set wrong... Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:

The Union Atlantic Railroad: Your stuff's important!

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Teemu,If you can turn the single-ended NGT8D trams ( and any other single-eded trams ) at every terminus, you don't need double-ended trams. If all platforms on double-track are outside and all platforms on single track are central and the trams run in "wrong road", then you don't need doors on both sides.If there were occasional need for doors on the left side, then the middle section could be flipped to give one door that side, but unfortunately all the doors open together, unless you don't open doors at all.If you want NGT8D trams with doors on both sides in all sections, it would require a fundamental modification to the model and how would you cause doors to open only on one side ?I think that if you have decided on certain trams, then your route has to accommodate their characteristics, such as doors and single-ended etc. If you want your route to have features which the chosen trams cannot meet, then you have to use other trams or build them yourself.I hope you will be able to resolve any remaining incompatabilities and build a route that you will enjoy operating. I will watch your progress and offer what help I can, but that is mainly confined to editing lights, passenger views and cab views.Eric in UK

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Eric,I can only say that MSTS is a stupid program what comes to circular paths. I will try to go forward with the turning loops at each end, though that may cause serious problems.I thought about one possible solution:At the single-track terminals the tracks split into two tracks through an Y switch. The terminal would have a center platform.
The trains would take a left (default) path at the switch - right is not an option in Activity Editor when a loop described here is in question.Immediately behind the Y switch there is an automatic trailing point switch. When the tram passes over the switch (switch is lined to diverging), the switch will automatically normalize and will lead into a dead-end. After unloading the tram will continue through the loop and stop on the opposing site on the terminal platform. Now, there's another facing-point switch ahead. The straight path again leads in to dead-end. But the diverging path leads in to the Y switch and through that switch on to main line.I did some testing, and it seems that this is one solution of tricking the MSTS to believe that there is not a single loop there. However, since MSTS works the way it works it may or may not be successful..
Northern Greetings from
TVRail
President & CEO, Dakota Eastern Railroad
Member of Yonder Locomotive Works

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