First Interurban Freight

The first electric interurban freight passes the main depot in downtown Virginia Minnesota in 1926. In the summer, the residents complain about the smell of those cattle cars, but it's -34 degrees at the moment.

A preview of Tim Muir's forthcoming steeplecab on the Mesaba Electric.
Dave

Dave

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RE: First Interurban Freight, dchagar, Jun-19-02, 04:15 PM, (1) RE: First Interurban Freight, tryagin, Jun-19-02, 05:07 PM, (2) RE: First Interurban Freight, cjmaclean, Jun-22-02, 06:20 PM, (3) RE: First Interurban Freight, tryagin, Jun-22-02, 09:14 PM, (4) RE: First Interurban Freight, msavianney, Jun-22-02, 10:33 PM, (5) RE: First Interurban Freight, cjmaclean, Jun-23-02, 03:40 AM, (6) RE: First Interurban Freight, msavianney, Jun-23-02, 05:13 AM, (7) RE: First Interurban Freight, cjmaclean, Jun-23-02, 05:43 AM, (8) RE: First Interurban Freight, msavianney, Jun-23-02, 08:52 AM, (9) RE: First Interurban Freight, cjmaclean, Jun-23-02, 09:27 AM, (10) RE: First Interurban Freight, dchagar, Jun-23-02, 09:59 AM, (11) RE: First Interurban Freight, Cbertram, Jun-24-02, 04:17 AM, (12) RE: First Interurban Freight, Motorman, Jul-16-02, 02:13 AM, (13)

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Here's another shot of Tim Muir's new steeplecab in the hole south of Virginia, waiting for the hourly passenger local.

Dave

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That fits right in, Dave! Do you have a color scheme in mind for Mesaba Freight motors? I could whip one up for you in a bit, if you'd like.By the by, looking at your snowey streets makes me realize that a snow-sweeper is needed. Hmmmmm.....McGuire-Cummings comes to mind. Hmmmm.......Tim

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Cool ! Two questions, by the way...were the freight cars used on interurban lines the same as on "big" railroads? And, why are interurban locos called "motors"?
D.M."Homini plurima ex homine sunt mala." - Plinius Maior, Naturalis Historia 7,1,5
Dominik MannProud Member of the MSTS European Railfans

- Interested in Euro railways, virtual or real? Visit the European Add-Ons Discussion forum at http://www.trains-station.com/ -

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I'll field that one. Yes and no. Some interurban (and some city) lines had their own freight cars, never leaving the parent property. While others interchanged freely with "steam roads". The Oregon Water Power & Railway Co was one of the first interurbans to interchange freight with the "transcontinentals", started back in 1903. There are still two or three interurbans in the midwest and Texas that interchange with the big lines, last I heard.The freight locos are called "motors" simply because their prime-movers are electric motors truck-mounted and geared to the axles. Diesel locomotives owe much of their technology (electric traction, multiple-unit operation, dynamic braking theory,etc.)to early electric traction.Tim

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Well Tim hit the nail on the head, but I can add my two cents worth (lets see, two Australian cents equals about 1.1 US cents!)The East Troy Electric RR in Wisconsin still operates trolley freight, interchanging with the Class 1 at Mukwonago, about seven miles out of East Troy. This is the last remainder of the former Milwaukee Electric system, and when the line was due to close in 1939, the municipality bought the track from the interchange to the village. This was because there were a number of industries that needed to get their goods to an interchange. TMER&T operated the line under contract for ten years, then the village did it themselves from 1949. In the seventies, museum operation began, but the line still provides an important service to industries around East Troy. For more info on this living example of trolley freight, see;http://www.easttroyrr.org/Cheers,
Matt A

Milwaukee Electric Lines

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Was there a common standard for catenary voltage on interurban lines? Also, I'm wondering why this "pole" type pantograph was so widely used on many trams and interurbans...IMO they always bore the danger of jumping the wire, requiring the engineer to get out and bring it in contact again, didn't they?
D.M."Homini plurima ex homine sunt mala." - Plinius Maior, Naturalis Historia 7,1,5
Dominik MannProud Member of the MSTS European Railfans

- Interested in Euro railways, virtual or real? Visit the European Add-Ons Discussion forum at http://www.trains-station.com/ -

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In Europe, bow collectors and pantographs have long been popular. In the English speaking world, trolley poles were widespread and are still used in some places, such as Melbourne, Australia (for their older cars). The advantages of trolley poles is that they are less expensive, simpler, and are quite sufficient for low-speed systems. Using carbon insert skids instead of trolley wheels made them simpler still and better for higher speed running. Trolley poles allow for lighter and simpler overhead wiring, so catenary wire is not common for pole-equipped systems, except for high speed ones. There was usually no common standard; each system chose whichever seemed the best at the time. The result is overhead from 16 to 22 feet, from simple to heavy catenary.Cheers,
Matt A

Milwaukee Electric Lines

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Hmmm...but isn't it true that in order to run a pole-equipped electric backwards you must first stop, then get out, lower the pole from the wire using a pull-down rope, and then turn it around by 180° and reconnect it to the wire?Unless, of course, you've got two poles facing outwards from both ends of the vehicle that can be raised and lowered from within the cab, I presume...
D.M."Homini plurima ex homine sunt mala." - Plinius Maior, Naturalis Historia 7,1,5
Dominik MannProud Member of the MSTS European Railfans

- Interested in Euro railways, virtual or real? Visit the European Add-Ons Discussion forum at http://www.trains-station.com/ -

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Yes, it is true that one has to turn the pole (for cars with a single pole) or lower one pole and raise the other. This is not considered to be too much of a problem, especially in mild climates. That is the main disadvantage of poles, but in an age where work was far more manual and physical than today, it was considered that changing ends was not too much to expect. Of course, trolley poles originated in the times when most tramcars had no protective windscreens for the drivers; these often only came after much effort on the part of crews, who often had to pay for their own protective clothing.Having operated trams in a museum context, I never really thought that changing ends was out of the ordinary. As Australia had nearly no single-ended trams, we have to walk up to the other end with the controller key and brake handle, so there isn't much more effort required to climb out of the cab and lower/raise the poles (the first time is always interesting, learning to make contact quickly to avoid arcing). The poles were often changed by the conductor on two man cars. Of course, in Melbourne, we now have mainly pantograph equipped cars, so it is academic really. The older cars still have poles, but few of these operate today. I suppose we're just used to poles here, pantographs are a quite recent innovation, and were too recent to apply to most Australian systems, which had closed before they became popular, over half a century after they became standard (with bow collectors) in EuropeCheers,
Matt A

Milwaukee Electric Lines

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I think you're right that us Europeans tended more towards standard pantographs. This is a historic tram car from Stuttgart......one from Frankfurt...
Not really an "oldtimer"...built around 1960 or so......two from Cologne...
...Kassel...
...Bonn...

...Dresden...

Reminds me a bit of the American PCC tram cars.
...and Hanover...

When the Hanover tramway switched to self-powered vehicles between 1895 and 1903, the city council would first not permit catenaries to be erected for safety concerns, thus the first electric tram cars were, in fact, battery-powered. However, this car looks like it has been refitted with a panto when catenaries were erected after some years.D.M."Homini plurima ex homine sunt mala." - Plinius Maior, Naturalis Historia 7,1,5
Dominik MannProud Member of the MSTS European Railfans

- Interested in Euro railways, virtual or real? Visit the European Add-Ons Discussion forum at http://www.trains-station.com/ -

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Continuing the poles vs. pans discussion, I'm from the Minneapolis/St. Paul Minnesota area in the U.S. In the entire history of the company that operated there, there were never more than four double-ended cars. All cars operated with poles only, and used a large 10" revolving wheel. Only a few lines had loops at the ends, so it involved a backing move at the end of each line. With the revolving wheels, a spring operated trolley wire switch was installed (along with one in the track), so that the motorman only had to back up pushing the pole into the wye. I never once saw a dewirement during this type of operation. Most dewirements seem to come from tree branches that would get under the wire during a wind storm, or from excessive ice on the wire. In a similar vein, I watched an Illinois Terminal locomotive equipped with shoes on the poles do an extensive amount of switching in a yard pushing the pole against the wire, with no one paying any particular attention to it. The trick was to have the pole pointing out of the yard so that it followed the wire going in, and simply slid back through the wire frogs backing out.
Dave

Dave

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Hey, nice shot of Stuttgart 418!I just drove it on Sunday a week ago, when tramline nr 2 was officialy "said goodby". (This saturday it was reopend as a Light Rail "Stadtbahn").I realy love the 418 and would like to see it on Trainsimulator.greetings from Stuttgart,
MichaelBTW: in Dresden "Volkswagen" is operrating a modern "Cargotram"

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The vast majority of Interurban and Streetcar systems in the U.S. used 600 Volts DC. The trolley pole was simple to make and light weight requiring light roof structure. They were equipped with "Retrievers" that would pull the pole down in the event of a dewirement to prevent damage to the overhead as well as the pole. The downside to poles is the additional complexity of wire turnouts and crossings. Additionally the operation of switching over from 3rd rail to trolley ... at speed ... at night ... in the rain, as on the North Shore Line out of Chicago, could be quite challenging.

The Motorman

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