OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view

As an example, when sitting in a caboose, or in a passenger car, (Key 5) how does one, OR can one make the outside sounds heard, instead of the inside sounds, like you can hear using the (Key 3) "rear view". In key 3 "rear view" you can hear your engine etc in the distance, depending on how long your train is. I'd like to get that for "inside passenger view" key 5 I vaguely remember once I had a caboose that while sitting in it and panning around I could still hear my Steamer's whistle in the distance like when you go to key 5 "rear view". I have an old passenger coach which has a passenger view. I have set the view pan to just outside the window, like in now old days when passenger car windows could be pulled down and you could put your head out and cop an eyeful of cinders ) for those who can remember.All my caboose's and passenger views, the engine and outside sounds CANNOT be heard inside the caboose or passenger car. I've fiddle a good bit without any success. Can this be done, if so, any ideas as to how to do it.Regards,
John.

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RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, Jeff_Ashton, May-25-03, 10:39 PM, (1) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, pacmancreator, May-26-03, 12:28 PM, (2) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, jm1941, May-27-03, 07:18 PM, (4) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, pacmancreator, May-27-03, 10:54 PM, (5) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, jm1941, May-28-03, 02:38 AM, (6) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, pacmancreator, May-28-03, 07:07 PM, (9) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, jm1941, May-28-03, 08:04 PM, (10) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, pacmancreator, May-28-03, 09:42 PM, (11) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, Jeff_Ashton, May-29-03, 00:08 AM, (12) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, jm1941, May-29-03, 05:04 AM, (14) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, jm1941, May-26-03, 07:15 PM, (3) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, scefhwil, May-28-03, 08:10 AM, (7) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, jm1941, May-28-03, 06:23 PM, (8) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, Jeff_Ashton, May-29-03, 00:22 AM, (13) RE: OUTSIDE sounds using passenger view, scefhwil, May-29-03, 06:23 PM, (15)

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The easiest way is to go into the eng.sms file for the loco that is hauling the train, and move the "passengercam ()" statement from Deactivation(...) to Activation(...). There is no way to control the volume, that I know of, however. I once tried putting a volume statement inside the brackets of the passengercam () command, but to no avail.Jeff

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I went to the eng.sms file, found the "passengercam ()", added 3 dots in the parenthesies, saved, closed, ran my train, but no sound in the carriage. I then opened up my eng.sms file again, added Activation(...).Here's what it looks like now: PassengerCam Activation(...) There's still no horns or anything inside the car.Any help?-Matt, future Cirque Du Soleil singer-Crime: It's my anti drug -Creating Pac-Man comics for the humorless people out there

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THANKSHi Jeff,When I first fiddled with your suggestions the (...) threw me off and it would not work.
So what I did was just CUT passengercam () as is from Deactivation and PASTED it into Activation. In some eng.sms files there are 2 places and in others 4 places. AND it all worked a treat. That is all that's needed to be done. Easy when you see how.As to the sound volume, it is fine, as I did tests with Engine a 4 cars and it was reasonably loud, (of course your not far from engine) add more cars and it gets softer, and add heaps of cars it gets like way on the distance, exactly like in key 3 "Rear view) perfect.You made me one happy old pappy.
Many thanks again for answering, It was my fault as I miss read what you said.Regards,
John.

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Huh? If possible, could you please provide a sample of what the xxxeng.sms looks like now, with the correct values in place?Thanks.-Matt, future Cirque Du Soleil singer-Crime: It's my anti drug -Creating Pac-Man comics for the humorless people out there

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Here is my Seng.sms zipped from the sound folder of Christine Sweetman's "S" class Victorian engine.
Use Wordpad's FIND.
Type in passengercam
You will find 4 places where I changed the Passengercam () from Deactivation to Activation. That's it, I've had great fun today did this to my NSW Bayer Garratt as well, now I can poke my head out of Passenger view of the GB (Caboose) and hear the engine etc in the distance.This sms file is zipped up, should be easy to find it all in it.
Compare it to one of your eng.sms files in your Engine's Sound folder.
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3ed457d404fb77d7.zipRegards,
John.

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Unfortunately, I did compare it, and it seemed no different, as far as passengercam's go, with mine. Oh well, thanks anyway!-Matt, future Cirque Du Soleil singer-Crime: It's my anti drug -Creating Pac-Man comics for the humorless people out there

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This is the BEFORE (default) altered eng.sms file.Activation ( ExternalCam () Distance (1000) )
Deactivation ( CabCam () PassengerCam () Distance (1000) )
This is AFTER alteration.Activation ( ExternalCam () PassengerCam () Distance (1000) )
Deactivation ( CabCam () Distance (1000) )
Sorry the post will not allow to space it out as in the actual ???eng.sms file, but should give you general idea. Note: Only change the eng.sms file that is in the engines SOUND folder even if aliased. I found that if for example you have an engine that uses say an default SD402 with an alias, only change the aliased file that is in the engine's Sound folder. Of course, if you want the SD402 to do this as well, then change that eng.sms file as well. When I first tried this I goofed. I had a "G" class that was aliased to a SD402 sound, I went to the SD402 and altered it. Sorry it no worky. Then later it occured to me to check in the "G"s aliased eng.sms file to that SD402, so I altered that one and "WALLA" it works. A trap for idiots like me. Hope this helps, works for me anyway.Regards,
John

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LAST EDITED ON May-28-03 AT 09:56 PM (EDT)

Ohhhhhhh I see what I've been doing wrong now!!!!THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH!!!!! IT WORKS!!!!!-Matt, future Cirque Du Soleil singer-Crime: It's my anti drug -Creating Pac-Man comics for the humorless people out there

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Sorry I was not able to reply right away, but I was out of town and couldn't get connected. Anyway, it seems you've got the problem fixed. Sorry for the confusing instructions.Lesson to Jeff: Always show an example.Cheers,Jeff

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Hi Jeff,Don't be sorry, instructions wasn't confusing, just some of us got the bull by the horns. Be glad you helped quite a few of us to enjoy sounds for the passenger view. You have helped 5 of us I know of here in Australia so far. You made this old fart happy.I've spent many hours messing around trying to figure this out with others as well, never occured to me or them to look in the ???eng.sms file, but not being sound whizz's I suppose I/we can be forgiven. Thanks Jeff. Should have asked here in the first place, but liked to try first.Again MANY,MANY THANKS. I'm rapt, is now like old times, when I rode in GB's (cabooses) a retired railwayman these days and looking out of passenger car windows panning looking around at my steamer working hard up front blowing the whistle, getting soot in the eyes. Fantastic mate. If you were in the area I'd buy you a beer, but this will have to do. Ave a good one mate.Regards,
John.

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Does anyone know where the sounds for key 3 "rear view" come from.
As if these could be used by passenger coach or caboose. Then as the pass car is further down the train the sounds get less, like in "rear view" or "outside view". In rear view as you key down the train towards engine the sounds get louder, like real. But fiddling with eng file in my mind only gets sounds as inside engine.But me thinks that maybe it cannot be done as its a part of the MSTS program. The outside sounds must be programmed in. Maybe next version.Regards
John.

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The situation is more complex than your question allows for with a direct answer, so here's some general explanation.There are three basic sound environments in MSTS.External view = 11025Hz mono sounds with 3D effects
Internal/cab view = 22025Hz stereo with no 3D effects
Internal/passenger view = 22025Hz stereo with no 3D effectsThe relationship between the key view options and which of these sound environments applies is as follows (this appears to be hardcoded into the sim). From the perspective of what sounds the Player loco PLAYS:-Key1 (inc look left and look right) - the .sms called from in the Sound() statement in the Engine() section of the .eng file.
Key2, 3, 4, 6 and 7 - the .sms called from in the Sound() statement in the Wagon() section of the .eng file.
Key5 - the .sms called from in the Sound () statement in the Inside () statement of the Wagon() section of the .eng file.From the perspective of what sounds the Player loco HEARS:-
Key1 (inc look left and look right) - any .sms that has CabView() in the Activation() statement.
Key2, 3, 4, 6 and 7 - any .sms that has ExternalView() in the Activation() statement.
Key5 - any .sms that has PassengerView() in the Activation() statement.There are of course some anomilies in the above but generally it is correct. One important consequence is that if you are in key1 cab view, and the .sms referred to in the Sound() statement in the Engine() section is NOT CabView Activated then it will play but you won't hear it!

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Hi scefhwil,Thanks for that information, that broadened this sound environments area a bit more. It's nearly an art in itself.Since MSTS was released, users have cursed Kuju (including myself very early in the first weeks), but one thing I've learnt as time has gone on, these guys at Kuju who put this all together, look, I have to take MY hat off to them. Once we start going through the maze of all the parts of MSTS that have to mesh together, its amazing there was not more bugs for the time limit Microsoft gave them to do it in. Nothing short of amazing. But then, I'm no whizz kid, so what would I know.Regards,
John.

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Stuart, quick questions for you:You mention 22050 Hz stereo for internal sounds, but isn't it 22050 mono or 11025 stereo for cab.sms or pass.sms?Whenever I've been working with sound editing, I usually have mono source recordings, so I convert them to 16 bit mono 11025 hz and edit them to work for the external sounds (naming them x_xxx.wav for use in the eng.sms) and then do a save as to 16 bit stereo 11025hz (renamed to remove the "x_")and they work fine in the cab.sms.I always presumed that if I wanted to use a amono file in the cab.sms, I would convert it to 22050 hz instead of converrting it to stereo. Do I have that right?Also, if the internal view sounds have no 3d effects, does that mean the stereo files sound the same as if they were mono?Jeff

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Well spotted there Jeff. I have got a bit carried away with trying to over describe the difference.I've not tried 22050Hz mono in sim, but I recon it would work as you've suggested. (My personal option when I only have mono only originals is to use the mono file in the stereo environment but frequency curve it to a fixed rate of 5512).By 'no 3D effect' I mean to say that positional and distance related volume changes don't occur. However 'true' stereo is heard if the two streams are playing different sound data.

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