NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds

The latest in nit-picking and total audio integration mumbo-jumbo:I ran the NALW Berkshires through Conbuilder, and it's screaming about "x_Berk_abrake.wav" not being found. I went on a hunt, and I found "x_Berk_abrake1" through "x_Berk_abrake3" in the proper directory. The line in question wants "x_Berk_abrake.wav" to join with "x_Berk_abrake2.wav" in some sort of fashion; error is on line:
Discrete_Trigger ( 14 PlayOneShot ( 2 File ( "x_Berk_abrake.wav" -1 ) File ( "x_Berk_abrake2.wav"), and so on.Since "x_Berk_abrake1.wav" is not used in Berkeng.sms, I suspect I could plug it in and nobody'd tell the difference. If this is what I'm supposed to do, please tell me. Secondly: The New Haven EP5 wants three horn files that I don't have, and I'd like some direction. The files, in the order Conbuilder reported them missing are:x_H47.wav
x_H471.wav
H47.wavI do have x_H4700.wav and H4700.wav; are those proper ones that just happen to be misnamed and thus useful if copied and renamed? Alternatively, where do I go to get them? This does, of course, leave "x_H471.wav" and its existence up in the air.Thanks for all advice and whatnot.

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Norfolk & Western’s Radford Division, Pulaski District: Who needs the Marias Pass?

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RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, chucksc, Feb-04-03, 12:22 PM, (1) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, NW_611, Feb-04-03, 06:13 PM, (2) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, chucksc, Feb-04-03, 06:25 PM, (3) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, NW_611, Feb-04-03, 06:48 PM, (4) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, chucksc, Feb-04-03, 08:22 PM, (5) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, shoskins, Feb-06-03, 05:58 PM, (11) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, chucksc, Feb-06-03, 10:23 PM, (13) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, NW_611, Feb-04-03, 09:28 PM, (6) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, NW_611, Feb-04-03, 09:41 PM, (7) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, chucksc, Feb-05-03, 12:16 PM, (8) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, baldwin, Feb-05-03, 05:01 PM, (9) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, chucksc, Feb-06-03, 04:18 PM, (10) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, shoskins, Feb-06-03, 06:03 PM, (12) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, chucksc, Feb-06-03, 10:25 PM, (14) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, shoskins, Feb-07-03, 05:09 PM, (15) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, chucksc, Feb-07-03, 05:44 PM, (16) RE: NALW Berkshire and EP5 Missing Sounds, Shaft1076, May-15-03, 02:46 AM, (17)

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OK 1st question is, Did you change anything when you installed these packages???? IIRC these errors were not there in the release....
2nd question, Are the locos working alright in the sim???? Can you sound the horn both inside and outside the cab????? can you hear the brakes apply and release inside and outside the cab?????
If all of the above then it may be a ConBuilder problem...
Carlos has had some difficulty getting his program to track aliased files properly but on my machine using ver. 1.5.5 (I think, its the latest in the library) the only thing it bitches about now is when you don't have the wagon name the same as the file name (which MSTS allows but Carlos doesn't)....
The Berkshire sounds are airbrake apply and release sounds so that is why I asked the question above... The two linked sounds give you the initial "bang" followed by the hisssssssssss..... If you have that then its working....
The EP5 stuff is the Hancock airwhistle sounds... If you have internal and external horn sounds then that is OK.... All those file names are valid... However the latest version from my machine has them named as.... H4700.wav and x_H4700.wav... They should be located in your \Common.Snd\Horns folder....One last question there was a Berkshire 1.0 and a 1.1 update do you have both installed????
Also the EP5 was released as 1.0 and a 1.1 update also, do you have both of them installed??????Chuck Schneider
I'm only 57 5/6
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Thanks for responding, Chuck!>OK 1st question is, Did you change anything when you
>installed these packages???? IIRC these errors were not
>there in the release....I changed nothing by my own hand. If anything was changed, it was by the NALW installer at the time of installation; to date I haven't tinkered with anything on those two particular locomotives. At the time I was doing this, I was very happy that you folks were using installers.

>2nd question, Are the locos working alright in the sim???? So far as I can tell, yes. When I get home, I'll give them further tests to make absolutely sure. A response, up or down, will be posted. >Can you sound the horn both inside and outside the cab????? Will check this.>can you hear the brakes apply and release inside and outside
>the cab?????See above. Going on what you said about what these files are and the sound sequence I'm supposed to hear, I'll have a much easier time of hunting this down.

>If all of the above then it may be a ConBuilder problem...
>Carlos has had some difficulty getting his program to track
>aliased files properly but on my machine using ver. 1.5.5 (I
>think, its the latest in the library) the only thing it
>bitches about now is when you don't have the wagon name the
>same as the file name (which MSTS allows but Carlos
>doesn't)....I'll take a look at this and see what that sort of theory turns up. So far, Conbuilder's been screaming mostly about NALW products, and the root cause of it seems to be tiny typos that take nitpickingly intense levels of debugging to hunt down.

>The EP5 stuff is the Hancock airwhistle sounds... If you
>have internal and external horn sounds then that is OK....
>All those file names are valid... However the latest version
>from my machine has them named as.... H4700.wav and
>x_H4700.wav... They should be located in your
>\Common.Snd\Horns folder....

Yes, I have those two files. If those are the ones that NALW intended to be used as the EP5's horn, then that closes this particular inquiry; thank you for indicating that. If you could shed some light on the x_H471.wav issue, that'd close up the EP5, I think.>One last question there was a Berkshire 1.0 and a 1.1 update
>do you have both installed????No, I do not. I have berk_v11.zip installed by itself; the description for berkup11.zip indicates that I do not need the upgrade if I download "the current full version", and I am certain that I've got the "latest product". >Also the EP5 was released as 1.0 and a 1.1 update also, do
>you have both of them installed?????? Yes, I have installed both the initial file and the upgrade. The upgraded passenger consist wants ESE files that I simply don't have, but I'll make do, since I'm not anxious to buy the ESE. When I get home and find the error that I get, I'd appreciate it if you'd help me "get around" this one. I appreciate you folks and your work; thanks for the response.

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>Thanks for responding, Chuck!
>
>>OK 1st question is, Did you change anything when you
>>installed these packages???? IIRC these errors were not
>>there in the release....
>
>I changed nothing by my own hand. If anything was changed,
>it was by the NALW installer at the time of installation; to
>date I haven't tinkered with anything on those two
>particular locomotives. At the time I was doing this, I was
>very happy that you folks were using installers.
>So are we.... The vast majority of problems we see turn out to be caused by MSTS not being in the default location and/or the user making some personal customizations... Hence the question!>>2nd question, Are the locos working alright in the sim????
>
>So far as I can tell, yes. When I get home, I'll give them
>further tests to make absolutely sure. A response, up or
>down, will be posted.
>
>>Can you sound the horn both inside and outside the cab?????
>
>Will check this.
>
>>can you hear the brakes apply and release inside and outside
>>the cab?????
>
>See above. Going on what you said about what these files are
>and the sound sequence I'm supposed to hear, I'll have a
>much easier time of hunting this down.
>
>>If all of the above then it may be a Con-Builder problem...
>>Carlos has had some difficulty getting his program to track
>>aliased files properly but on my machine using ver. 1.5.5 (I
>>think, its the latest in the library) the only thing it
>>bitches about now is when you don't have the wagon name the
>>same as the file name (which MSTS allows but Carlos
>>doesn't)....
>
>I'll take a look at this and see what that sort of theory
>turns up. So far, Con-builder's been screaming mostly about
>NALW products, and the root cause of it seems to be tiny
>typos that take nitpicking intense levels of debugging to
>hunt down.
>That's my problem with Con-Builder is that, especially in the earlier versions, it complained about "stuff" that wasn't really a problem... If it was the sim wouldn't work!>>The EP5 stuff is the Hancock air-whistle sounds... If you
>>have internal and external horn sounds then that is OK....
>>All those file names are valid... However the latest version
>>from my machine has them named as.... H4700.wav and
>>x_H4700.wav... They should be located in your
>>\Common.Snd\Horns folder....
>
>Yes, I have those two files. If those are the ones that NALW
>intended to be used as the EP5's horn, then that closes this
>particular inquiry; thank you for indicating that. If you
>could shed some light on the x_H471.wav issue, that'd close
>up the EP5, I think.
>Those are the correct horn names.... I wonder where the H471 reference comes from???? That is an alternate file from early days and IIRC we never used it... Or maybe we did in the NH-E60c re-skin???? I can't remember....>>One last question there was a Berkshire 1.0 and a 1.1 update
>>do you have both installed????
>
>No, I do not. I have berk_v11.zip installed by itself; the
>description for berkup11.zip indicates that I do not need
>the upgrade if I download "the current full version", and I
>am certain that I've got the "latest product".
>You do! >>Also the EP5 was released as 1.0 and a 1.1 update also, do
>>you have both of them installed??????
>
>Yes, I have installed both the initial file and the upgrade.
>The upgraded passenger consist wants ESE files that I simply
>don't have, but I'll make do, since I'm not anxious to buy
>the ESE. When I get home and find the error that I get, I'd
>appreciate it if you'd help me "get around" this one.
>There should be nothing in the EP5 that wants the ESE... The update, which installs the Merchant's Limited, is based on a re-skin of the ESE cars.... And was released as a stand alone set IIRC. I'm not sure what it would need of the ESE's that shouldn't already be there??????>I appreciate you folks and your work; thanks for the
>response. Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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>That's my problem with Con-Builder is that, especially in
>the earlier versions, it complained about "stuff" that
>wasn't really a problem... If it was the sim wouldn't work! Yeah. I'm just one of those "zero-defects" kind of people when it comes to simulation add-ons; I'm sure I spent dozens of hours tinkering with various FS planes and so forth to make sure that they were "right", with no reported errors. Conbuilder has been very good in doing what I used JAB98 and JAB GAU for in Flight Simulator. >Those are the correct horn names.... I wonder where the H471
>reference comes from???? That is an alternate file from
>early days and IIRC we never used it... Or maybe we did in
>the NH-E60c re-skin???? I can't remember.... Good for the names. What should I do with 471? I don't remember what it was off the top of my head, and I'm not opposed to either commenting the thing out or replacing it with an appropriate file, just so long as I know what I'm supposed to be hearing.>There should be nothing in the EP5 that wants the ESE... The
>update, which installs the Merchant's Limited, is based on a
>re-skin of the ESE cars.... And was released as a stand
>alone set IIRC. I'm not sure what it would need of the ESE's
>that shouldn't already be there?????? It's something to do with the Merchants Limited; off the top of my head, it's an SMS file that distinctly calls to the ESE. I've noticed that the upholstery in the chairs across from me in the passenger view of the Merchants Limited has a zebra pattern that I think is due to missing textures. Those are the two things I've noticed, but I could be wrong. Once I get home, I'll give you more accurate information.

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>Yeah. I'm just one of those "zero-defects" kind of people
>when it comes to simulation add-ons; I'm sure I spent dozens
>of hours tinkering with various FS planes and so
>forth to make sure that they were "right", with no reported
>errors. Conbuilder has been very good in doing what I used
>JAB98 and JAB GAU for in Flight Simulator. Thats the trouble.... Conbuilder calls things defects that aren't!
Most good programmers are anal about enforcing standards.... And I think that is what Carlos is trying to do... The problem is that some of his standards are not Microsofts....>>Those are the correct horn names.... I wonder where the H471
>>reference comes from???? That is an alternate file from
>>early days and IIRC we never used it... Or maybe we did in
>>the NH-E60c re-skin???? I can't remember....
>
>Good for the names. What should I do with 471? I don't
>remember what it was off the top of my head, and I'm not
>opposed to either commenting the thing out or replacing it
>with an appropriate file, just so long as I know what I'm
>supposed to be hearing.
>Go ahead and delete the file.... If you find any references to it change them to the H4700 series files....>>There should be nothing in the EP5 that wants the ESE... The
>>update, which installs the Merchant's Limited, is based on a
>>re-skin of the ESE cars.... And was released as a stand
>>alone set IIRC. I'm not sure what it would need of the ESE's
>>that shouldn't already be there??????
>
>It's something to do with the Merchants Limited; off the top
>of my head, it's an SMS file that distinctly calls to the
>ESE. I'll have to look at mine again.... I don't remember that and I did the physics and sounds for that package....I've noticed that the upholstery in the chairs across
>from me in the passenger view of the Merchants Limited has a
>zebra pattern that I think is due to missing textures. Those
>are the two things I've noticed, but I could be wrong. Once
>I get home, I'll give you more accurate information. The Zebra is actually a joke between Verne Horton and I.... At the time these cars, or their visual cousins, would have been in the NH's inventory they were pretty close to broke and did all kinds of crazy things to raise money.... Including teaming up with Alamo Rent-a-Car.... If you look close that is what those seat covers say....Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Those "H471" horn names are right in the cab.sms and eng.sms files of the NALW EP-5....in the lines which actually specify which horn is to be used!!!!In fact, the eng.sms file shows the first two such lines as x_H47.wav, and the third one shows the line to be x_h471.wav Notice that that last "1" is missing from the first two lines in the eng.sms file.It's the same situation in the cab.sms file with h47.wav and h471.wav first two hare h47.wav and third is h471.wavI have version 1.0 of the EP-5 -- and ran into the "missing" horn sounds when I first set it up to run it. I figured it all out, renaming the actual .wav's to H4700.wav anx x_H4700.wav -- and then doing the same thing within the .sms filesWiht the vast amount of information that has to go into any MSTS file, little things like this are bound to creep in.

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Thanks Dude....
We probably fixed it in 1.1 so I lost track...I'm running the (unreleased 2.0) right now so my files are gonna be a little different..Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Here's the latest:On the Berkshire, while sitting completely at rest, the following tests were run:-From 100% of airbrake applied and downwards, I got a "puff" sound upon various points in the release countdown. No other sounds immediately attributable to the brakes.
-From 0% application up, I get the occasional "puff" sound, along with some sort of "exhaling", which I think is linked to the locomotive itself. I occasionally hear something that sounds for all the world like pipes banging together and that loud exhaling sound. The next step is for me to go and play several of the Berkshire WAVs to see what I'm hearing.The EP5 horn works neither in the cab nor in the exterior. I will be editing the SMS files to reflect the reality of the WAV files. As for H471.wav, I don't have it; I'm curious as to what I should do in order to replace it. The sound error in the Merchants Limited is as follows:
Failed to find SMS file
file: ../../ESE/Sound/ESE_obser_pass.smsI think I can go through and hunt it down such that I can get the thing to at least stop complaining, but I'm not certain of that, and I'd like to have whatever sound the good folks at NALW intended.As for the 'zebra' textures, I see the Alamo text once or twice, but I'm also seeing ESE textures, along with a lot of signage that indicates "EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS"; I think the passenger car's got something mixed up. It even looks like a passenger car, 'cause I can see the windows and the lining of the sides. Cary Grant and Alfred Hitchcock, are, however, a welcome addition. I just wish I knew who the others were, and I hope that martini's shaken, not stirred.

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Norfolk & Western’s Radford Division, Pulaski District: Who needs the Marias Pass?

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-03 AT 09:54 PM (EDT)

Addendum: The H4700.wav and x_H4700.wav trick didn't work quite right. The horn is inaudible in the cab, and it's nigh impossible to hear in the exterior view. Moreover, what I can hear is like a faint steam whistle, not a diesel or electric horn.

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-03 AT 12:17 PM (EDT)

TUrn your sound up! LOL!
The Hancock AirWhistle does sound like a Steam Engine...
It was supposed to...
Has more class then the single trumpet honkers of the early diesels..BTW,,, The real ones fell out of favor because they weren't loud enough....
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Hi ChuckI have just run the Berks through Conbuilder1.5.5 and got the same result of the sms calling for abrake.wav. I checked the sms and it is indeed calling for this file, but in the sound folder we only have abrake1 2 and 3, no vanilla abrake. On that basis I dont think that conbuilder is finding nonexistant "faults". The question is, which one do we use for abrake, 1 2 or 3?mervyn@madasafish.com

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I just flipped this over the fence to Fowlis and Clitheroe...
IIRC those files maybe FS or 380 files that are edited or maybe not... They should know...Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-03 AT 06:07 PM (EDT)

Go into your cab.sms file and click on "Edit" then "Find" and type in "horn".Make sure where the .wav files are specified (three locations in the entire file) that the .wav specified is H4700.wavNow go into your eng.sms file and do the same search. Make sure the three locations where the .wav is specified it reads x_H4700.wavThe problem is in the original cab.sms and eng.sms files -- I just checked the original download I have saved onto a CD here and the cab.sms and eng.sms files show h47.wav twice, h471.wav once within the cab -- and x_h47.wav twice and x_h471.wav once in the eng.sms file.

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Now it comes back to me!We changed the horn in 1.1 and renamed it to H4700!
H47 and H471 were different pitches on the original recording done for us by 5 Chime Associates from their Horn Museum...Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Glad to help out....I just KNEW I had seen reference to those filenames (H47.wav and H471.wav) somewhere. so I dug out the CD-ROM I burned with all my old saves on it and did a quick install just to check and see if I could help the guy. I don't have the EP-5 on my system now, but I always save the original download .zip's just in case I ever want to re-install. I did grab it when it first came out but I did not realize there was a newer edition (1.1) -- so perhaps I will get that one just to have the latest.In any event, your efforts that went into the EP-5 and Hancock whistles is most appreciated...I'm a big New Haven fan. Grew up about two blocks from them in the Bronx, NY...did many cab rides in the FL9's and EP5's as my grandfather was an engineer with NHuntil 1967.

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No Prob Shoe....Version 1.1 adds the Budd Cars for the Merchant's Limited also... You might also want to try the NH PA set that our Phil Moberg (Now works for CDOT or MN I forget which - senility) did... All of the Paint Schemes the NH had on them... He is currently working on a version 2 of the EP5 and a version one of the EF4(PC-E33).... Also some washboard MUs... So your NH "jones" should get plenty of action! LOL!
Now if I can only get J-C off his butt to finish the FL9!!!! He thinks it fugly and wants to do more E and F units... I keep telling him there are "lembenty thousand" already done and a huge demand for the FL9 built up! Maybe I'll convert him one of these days????I too grew up alongside the NH in the 50s/early 60s in Stamford where I used to haunt the yard all the time.... got to know several of the old guys down there real well and my grandfather who was a typical Irish politician knew some more up in New Haven so I got to ride in the Cabs of Washboards, EP4s and 5s, once a PA and a couple of FL9s....
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Hi there,
I just installed both the EP5 and the Merchants Limited, and have run into both sound problems that "NW611" had mentioned... the missing horn AND the "ESE_obser_pass.sms". I changed the .wav files to H4700.wav in cab.sms and to x_H4700.wav in eng.sms, but I still get no horn, just the bell. As for the ESE question, I can't even find the file to delete/fix it, but every time I run the Merchants Limited consist, that error message pops up. What can I do to correct this?

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