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I just bought 3DT E7&8s and the engine RPM sounds are wrong, only IDLE, RUN 1 and 8 are correct. The rest are mixed up, or just duplicated. What a dissappointment - after paying for something that you would expect to be better than freeware! Should I demand my money back, or does anyone know the "fix"? :-(
Do you really know that those sounds are wrong?????? Or are you just positing it based on a quick count of the different file names in the Sound Folder? I suggest that you do some research on how the MSTS sound engine works before you troll in here like that! Given the quality of your 1st post I predict a long and illustrious career pi$$ing people off on this board! May I also suggest given the tenor of your post, especially about asking for your money back and inferring the supplier (3DTrains) ripped you off - I think you should ask for your money back! Based on my quick impression of you from your post, You're are not mentally competent enough to own MSTS or any of the fine add on products available.... I suggest on the job training with Thomas the Tank Engine.(Hey, I've been getting sensitivity training from Kevarc! - Is it working guys?)Lesson 1 ( for all the real newbies who want to learn) Its almost impossible to get get smooth transitions and prototypical sound in MSTS from 8 separate sound files. You tend to get skips and drop outs now matter how good your hardware is or what OS you are running. Most of the good packages from the Add-on Designers who have an interest in sound... use only a few sound samples and phase shift and volume modulate them to produce the various power settings that are required. This technique seems to work much much better in the Kuju sound engine than the separate files technique.Lesson 2 In Real Life (12" to the foot or 1000 meters to the kilometer scale) there is very little correlation between throttle settings and Engine/Prime-Mover RPM (hence sound). All you are doing with the throttle is controlling the power sent to the traction motors and then the governor independently decides what RPM of the prime-mover is required to produce that! Listen to our GEmegaPak or better yet to a real locomotive moving off under load to hear what I am talking about!Here Endeth the Lesson! Chuck Schneider (Virtual) CEO North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works
Mr. Schneider, I implore to please exercise a little tolerance regarding answering a newbie’s question. A possible scenario here is that this person has just received MSTS for Christmas, and is very excited about it, and wants to learn more. Toward that end, he/she has acquired an add-on product, and is now inquiring about the correctness of the product. This person is probably not aware that product is from a reputable firm, which offers fine products at a reasonable price. For all this person knows, drug addicts made this product in their basement. I trust that is not the case.I have before me a copy of the Operator’s Manual for an Electro-Motive Division model E-7 locomotive. On page 100, I read the following:The engines have a speed range from 275 to 800 RPM controlled by an electro-pneumatic governor control, which is operated by movement of the engineer’s throttle. In this manner all engines in the locomotive can be controlled simultaneously. Each notch on the engineer’s throttle changes the engine’s speed approximately 75 RPM.Back to Thomas the Tank Engine for me.
Oops... I screwed up there! The manual is correct (obviously LOL!) about governor steps on E units and F units.... I was thinking about modern engines like dash 8s and 9s and SD70s, 80s and 90s where Mr. Chip does it all and there is no direct co-relation.... I forgot to make that part clear... I jumped on him because of the tone of his post... Not because he is a newbie! Hopefully he is not a troll and will have learned his lesson about talking like that about reputable firms in here! I don't know about the rest of you but I am kinda tired of the 1 post wonders who come roaring in and very clearly state in one of their 1st dozen posts that a package or group of developers (well thought of professionally by the rest of us) are krap... Usually because they (the poster) did not RTFM! Or doesn't understand what is really being said...I would suggest that this gentleman would have been better served to ask something like; "I noticed in the E7 package from 3DT that there are not enough sound samples to cover all 8 notches. Doe anyone know why this is? Is it a problem? If so How do I fix it?"Chuck Schneider (Virtual) CEO North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works
"I was thinking about modern engines like dash 8s and 9s and SD70s, 80s and 90s where Mr. Chip does it all and there is no direct co-relation.... I forgot to make that part clear..."Hmmmm. I can tell a difference in the sounds without looking at the Locomotive Monitor to see what RPM's it's turning.Yes, Mr. Chip does get in the way as far as immediate response goes. However, the RPM's and/or sound does change from notch to notch even on an AC4400. (I won't get into the weird things 90's do.) I can tell what notch I am in from the sound, so I guess they do change.............btw-One thing I have noticed on many models out there is the RPM's increasing when you go to run 1. Unless the locomotive in question has a low idle solenoid, the RPM's generally don't increase.As far as the "tone of his post" goes, I suggest you reread some of your own.Best, Todd Jones
>"I was thinking about modern engines like dash 8s and 9s and >SD70s, 80s and 90s where Mr. Chip does it all and there is >no direct co-relation.... I forgot to make that part >clear..." > >Hmmmm. I can tell a difference in the sounds without looking >at the Locomotive Monitor to see what RPM's it's turning. >That's because your load/current draw is changing... your rpm will change in response to that..... Modern locomotives respond to varying load by varying the throttle/governor to produce the amount of current necessary for that load which is why run5 on a light engine may produce different rpms than run 5 wth 50 cars in trail.... On the older locomotives you changed the governor which varied the RPM directly and then the prime mover reacted to that and off you went... Rn 5 produced the same RPM reguardless of load... If you think of the Governor-Throttle as the top of the system and the traction motors the bottom of the system then the old locos' throttling was top driven and the newer stuff is bottom driven.... >Yes, Mr. Chip does get in the way as far as immediate >response goes. However, the RPM's and/or sound does change >from notch to notch even on an AC4400. (I won't get into the >weird things 90's do.) I can tell what notch I am in from >the sound, so I guess they do change............. > >btw-One thing I have noticed on many models out there is the >RPM's increasing when you go to run 1. Unless the locomotive >in question has a low idle solenoid, the RPM's generally >don't increase. Again you are correct... I have wrestled with the idea making this change or not... I have SMS files for most of the NALW locomotives that work like that (no sound change until run 2)... Just haven't got them into an upgrade pack yet.... > >As far as the "tone of his post" goes, I suggest you reread >some of your own. Sure.... Whatever and I am usually responding to some thing not jumping in with ad-hominem attacks out of the clear blue... I guess it is OK for people like that to get on here and attack-criticise us or other established modelers but heaven forbid if we defend ourselves or our friends....Chuck Schneider (Virtual) CEO North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works
Some of the above does not follow my experiences. The RPM's do indeed follow the throttle on the newer stuff. There is a delay there however as the computer does it's thing saving us from all that diesel smoke. This is especially noticable in the lower notches.One thing to remember is that the governor does not react solely to the throttle, but also the load regulator. The load regulator is what varies the load on the prime mover as the current demands of the locomotive vary. As speed goes down, the motors will draw more amps, increasing the load on the prime mover. Hence, the governor opens up the injectors allowing more fuel in. The RPM's don't go up but the sound does change a bit as the engine works harder.All this is also controlled with the computers on the new stuff, so they handle a bit differently, but it's all the same in the end.As far as doing stuff for models on MSTS, I wouldn't worry too much about getting these little things exactly right. I would work more at getting the sound itself right. I have yet to hear an model sound like the real deal. (GE's bark when working hard, 86 DB my arse. Not this muffled stuff I hear.)I realize that much of the reason for that is the sound engine with the game, but there are improvements that could be made I am sure. I have heard a couple models that sound pretty decent, Toland's S4 and Enocell's TrainMaster come to mind. I run those when I feel like playing the game while taking a break from the RE or 3DCanvas.btw-I don't have any problem with someone responding to a detractor, but ya sound like you're ready to come through your monitor dude. This is a hobby. Lets enjoy it.PS-Do you work with Chris Lee at all? He sent me an email a while back and I never got a response to my reply. Wanted some info about the loading characteristics of AC4400's at different speeds IIRC.Best, Todd
Work with Chris Lee? Very rarely anymore since he went over to the "dark side" and went to payware with the rest of TA.... He has kinda gone dormant to the rest of us... Probably busy making money! LOL! Maybe Bob B. has heard from him recently but I haven't... And I used to hear from him quite often....And as for me coming through the monitor at some of the posts on here you are pretty close.... Ever since we were accused of vaporware on here and have been nitpicked to death by people who contribute almost nothing and had our ideas and models outright stolen (by former beta testers) I've gotten a little more grouchy than when I started out... But, being a stubborn Dutchman I will not allow the same collection of losers who drove out CLW and TA and several other designers to do the same to my friends and I. I want them to see us as a big mine field that is very painful to them... Sorry if I offend the rest of you but.. Ya gotta stand up for your friends or you've got nothing.BTW, you ought to see some of the offensive and demanding e-mails we receive on a weekly basis... We are not dealing with nice people here. Chuck Schneider (Virtual) CEO North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works
