London Underground train - new cab finished

I've finally completed the new cab for Richard Scott's beautiful London Underground R Stock train. I hope to post a complete update kit soon (with Richard's permission), as I've also re-worked the eng file to give realistic performance and to implement the blended air/dynamic brakes and the combined throttle/brake controller, added a bunch of realistic sounds, etc. Experts will note the cab is in fact based on a late C Stock unit. I added one non-prototypical display to show the position of the CTBC controler, else I believe it's realistic.Here's a driver's-eye view:Regards to all, Jimi

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RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, BNSF4723, Aug-30-02, 07:41 PM, (1) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, Stooopid_person, Aug-31-02, 06:06 AM, (2) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, Stooopid_person, Aug-31-02, 09:17 AM, (3) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, DrJimi, Aug-31-02, 11:55 AM, (6) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, TrirailF40PHL, Aug-31-02, 09:46 AM, (4) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, Stooopid_person, Aug-31-02, 09:53 AM, (5) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, DrJimi, Aug-31-02, 12:25 PM, (7) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, TrirailF40PHL, Aug-31-02, 03:40 PM, (8) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, DrJimi, Aug-31-02, 06:05 PM, (9) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, DrJimi, Sep-07-02, 02:09 PM, (10) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, Stooopid_person, Sep-07-02, 11:42 PM, (11) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, Stooopid_person, Sep-08-02, 10:15 AM, (12) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, Stooopid_person, Sep-10-02, 06:53 AM, (13) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, DrJimi, Sep-10-02, 04:25 PM, (14) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, jvizoso, Sep-11-02, 00:35 AM, (15) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, DrJimi, Sep-12-02, 12:08 PM, (18) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, Stooopid_person, Sep-11-02, 06:47 AM, (16) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, DrJimi, Sep-12-02, 11:57 AM, (17) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, Stooopid_person, Sep-14-02, 00:48 AM, (19) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, Stooopid_person, Sep-14-02, 09:09 AM, (20) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, Stooopid_person, Sep-14-02, 09:49 AM, (21) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, DrJimi, Sep-14-02, 06:56 PM, (22) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, Stooopid_person, Sep-14-02, 11:58 PM, (23) RE: London Underground train - new cab finished, Stooopid_person, Sep-15-02, 06:42 AM, (24)

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Looks great Jimi. That cab will look good on any subway vehicle! *~þHÃt*Rat~**~classic american playa~*


www.atlanticsystem.tk

Skinner #2 at Atlantic System

September 11th, 2001: I stand united! Peace to those who perished... R.I.P

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Actually, the R stock used the 2BIL cabs but for those who didn't want to download it, it used a Series 2000 cab. I remember Richard saying in Version 1.1 of R stock, the .eng files have been modified and it makes it more like CO/CP stock. I agree with him as the R stock was never in the Aluminium or LU red livery. It was in the Cat Whisker livery I remember. In BVE, there is a CO/CP stock for us to drive. Would you want a screenshot of that as it should be more realistic than C stock cab, maybe that could be your next project.And what is that RHEO and EP Hold? C stocks don't have that. And the controller, when braking, should be farther away, and accelarting should be close to you(Unlike other LUL trains). I can tell you were either braking or Idling by the Track monitor.The cab is excellent! I must download this!-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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C stock cab from BVE by Paul Jobber. The left window's left should be slanted. And your Speedometer and brake gauge should switch places.

CO/CP stock cab from BVE by Paul Jobber. You can see the R stock in its Cat's Whiskers livery.

-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-31-02 AT 11:59 AM (EDT)

Regarding your comments about controls and their placement... My explanation below may seem defensive. That's not my intention, I simply want to show the information sources I used, and the conclusions and decisions I reached to meet my goal -- a reasonably realistic cab of that era.Here's a few photos I used during design of the cab. It's a refurbished (late) C Stock. Pictures obtained from the C Stock page on the LU TubePrune site.First the general console shot:Note the position of the CTBC. It's in the RHEO 1 & HOLD position. (More detail in the next photo). Also, the unit is stationary and the right gauge is at 0 and the left shows a reading, so I had to believe the left is brake pressure and the right is speed. I think BVE has it backwards Here's a closeup of the CTBC bezel (which I did faithfully reproduce in the cab, but because of the angle it's unreadable). That's why I added the extra display to show the controller position.The control above is in the "Rheostatic 1 & hold" position. This provides initial braking (in real life) and also provides a 1 BAR hold pressure to hold the unit stationary when at a station. Rotating CCW to the next few positions adds air brakes (proportionally, un-notched) and Rheostatic 2 dynamics. The Off & Release position is straight up. Rotating CW from there powers the motors at 3 levels (ignoring the weak field switch, which wasn't used much due to wheelslip). Thus OFF is vertical, moving the knob left (rotating CW) provides motoring, moving the knob right and forward (rotating CCW) provides braking.I don't know where the BVE cab developer got his data, but it doesn't appear to match the C Stock photos I used. Maybe he was simply limited by BVE's graphics animation abilities.Incidentally, I wasn't able to exactly match the CTBC functions in the MSTS eng file. Rheo 1 & hold is just a hold position (which holds the current braking level). I couldn't get the dynamics to kick in at this setting as the blended braking in MSTS doesn't work that way, sadly. Moving to Rheo2 + EP min (and beyond) provides linear EP blended with dynamics, which is modelled correctly in MSTS, as are Service and Emerg. I also enabled the hold position such that you can release a little pressure/dynamic (via the Off/release position) and then move back to Hold to hold that level. Useful if you're braking a little rapidly and want to ease it off a little. Also the dynamics realistically start to cut out at about 20mph so you need to add a little braking at this point to maintain effective braking level.The motoring (shunt, series, parallel) I've modeled at 10, 50 and 100% of full power. This gives realistic acceleration in each notch, but the Series position should really limit the speed available more than it does. The shunt position appears to provide a good speed hold at 40-45 mph. I also managed to add the realistic sound of the dynamics as you add braking And the door open/close noises (cab and outside) when you hit the P key (door animation is included in Richard's model). And, for fun, the bell (B) control causes a well-known station announcement I couldn't model the compressor noise in the passenger view due to a known bug in MSTS, but you can hear it in the cab.I'm working on final testing and packaing and hope to have it uploaded (once I get Richard's permission) in the next few days as a Beta 1.0 release. Then I'm going to use what I learned on the 30000 to develop a night-time cab for this one too.Again, I don't intend the explanations above to be an argument against your comments, and I DO sincerely appreciate your enthusiasm. I didn't really set out to exactly reproduce the R Stock cab -- more to develop a similar-era LU cab that most folks would perceive as an appropriate cab for an older LU unit. Even if they didn't know a CTBC from an M door Thanks again, Jimi

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That is a NICE CAB. Details everywhere!Say, Jimi, Chris Cyko and me have been looking for someone to make us a cabview (with the 3D-look) for a Chicago Elevated 2400 series and 3200 series car. I would like to ask if you could create us the 2400 series cab, if it would not be too much trouble. We would greatly appreciate it!Take care!Kurt
KLWTrainSim

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How does the 2400 cab look like? A photo to show us?-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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Kurt, I'm honestly flattered to be asked, and would be delighted to try. I'm not in the same league as SamSpade, Chris L, Clem et al (who continue to provide me with inspiration) but I think I have a good eye and am getting better at convincing 3DC to deform primitives and glue them together to match my visions And to do some work for the "L" would be awesome. Chris's recent screen shots show he's done some incredible work and I look forward to downloading it, when available.Can you point me to some in-cab photos? As much detail and as many different views as possible, especially console and gauge detail. I'll also need to know the interior dimensions of the cab and the operation of the controls. Maybe the eng file for the train too, as there may be a few tweaks needed, and the cvf will have to match the control animations to the eng file, etc.Feel free to contact me offline at <mailto:meltdown@adelphia.net> to discuss this further. I'm about done with the LU unit and was wondering what to do next Thanks for the offer -- It would be a blast to work with two people who's work I admire.Regards, Jimi

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Hello Jimi!I'm so glad to hear you would be interested in doing the 2400 cabview!Chris did a rendering of the 2400 cab in TSM for me, because actual photos of the 2400 cabs are next to impossible to find. ( Chris tried taking a photo of one once, got arrested for doing it ) Following is some screenshots of the TSM version, and a flat version that shows the controls in more detail.BTW, the throttle on the 2400s is set up somewhat like the Series 7000. As you bring the throttle closer to you, you engage electronic braking (actually, dynamic), and if you push it away, you accelerate.
GTG - backed up on emails, and I gotta write a whole bunch! Take care!Kurt
KLWTrainSim
http://klwtrainsim.cjb.net

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-31-02 AT 06:12 PM (EDT)

Ah yes, I recall Chris's post about the arrest. The pics you attached give me the general idea. Dimensions? Who's the manufacturer BTW? Maybe I'll get lucky with a web crawl. Any chance of getting the TSM file (I have TSM as well as 3DC and POV-Ray). That would let me "look around" the model bit more, although I'll be using 3DC/POV to create the cab. This looks very interesting...Update: I just check the relevant page on your website and found the manufacturer. I'll go crawl the ether a bit...Thanks, Jimi

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-07-02 AT 02:11 PM (EDT)

Got approval from Richard for the full kit upload - new cab, controls, eng files and sounds. I uploaded to both Train-sim and UKtrainsim last night. Look for LUR-B100.zip. It's a Beta 1.0, as I expect to make a few changes after some folks have expressed their opinions A "night version" is in progress.I've also started work on the Boeing-Vertol Series 2400 cab for the "L" trains. That will likely take about a month to complete.../Jimi

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Will it have C stock or R stock sounds?-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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It is released!-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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I think there is a problem. The textures are form the V1 R stock but the latest R stock(before yours) was v1.1 and had updates to the no smoking sign and front of train.-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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I couldn't find a V1.1 on UKtrainsim (using a search for R Stock). Can you give me a pointer? If I can get V1.1 I'll include those textures in my final release (along with the 3 missing sound files and a night view cab).Thanks, Jimi

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Great cab ..and the thing drives and sounds great ! I 'borrowed' the sounds missing from the common cab p42 sounds folder !
I ran the tube.zip activity from uktrainsim with the new red train .. fantastic.. I'd always had trouble with the response on the series 2000 brake system )) but with the new tube trains it was a gas!!
I too am looking forward to a night view .. That last night cab was great! jv Everyone has responded really well to this underground train ! I guess we all have a soft spot for them . I was always suprised how small the bakerloo line trains were compared to the District and Circle line ones.. I suppose those deep tunnels were just smaller.

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Delighted you like it! Expect an update in a few weeks with the night cab and a few bug fixes.
I've been running tests on the German U1 underground route. That's what helped me dial-in the braking levels. I'll have to d/l the tube.zip activity and try it.
Yes - the LU crowd seem to have emerged from hibernation There's now a re-paint or two, threats to make a sub-surface route, etc. Richard told me he's thinking of doing a C Stock unit sometime in the future. I'd like to see some tube stock ('68-'72 era maybe - I have good pictures of the pre-OPO cabs). Regarding the sizes, the tube stock is shaped differently (more rounded) and shorter (height) than the sub-surface stock. There's a good article on the TubePrune site that discusses the differences and gives dimensions.Thanks again, Jimi

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V1.1 is on UKTS. V1 has been deleted at UKTS an updated with v1.1 of the silver and red versions.-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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Thanks! BTW, I'm also in discussion with Richard about a few minnor updates to the cab for the final (post-Beta) release. I will also fix the consist error (end unit should be an east motor unit) and the missing 3 wavs. I'm going to fix the CTBC display too - the font/size below 1280 screen res is ugly. And I think the driver's front window deserves some smearing and wiper blade marks.BTW -- seen the new red/white/blue repaint on UKTS? Not uploaded yet, but there's a thread in teh MSTS Gen Discussion forum.Best - Jimi

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>BTW -- seen the new red/white/blue repaint on UKTS? Not
>uploaded yet, but there's a thread in teh MSTS Gen
>Discussion forum.
>
It doesn't look a bit like the A stock at all altough the colours are correct, but the shape is wrong. Could anyone send me the LU R stock V1.1 Silver Aluminimum bodied version? My e-mail address is at the top right hand corner where all the icons are.-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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And I think you have a consist problem. You coupled the train DM+T+DM+T+T+DM But DM+T+T+DM+T+DM should be more realistic.-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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>And I think you have a consist problem. You coupled the
>train DM+T+DM+T+T+DM But DM+T+T+DM+T+DM should be more
>realistic.
OK, here's a more detailed explanation

So now, there won't be drivers in the middle and end of train now.
And R stocks were always in 7-car formations. The 6-car formation is the CO/CP stock which is the R stock, as R stock was never painted red but CO/CP stocks was painted red. In the train's front, you can see a small word saying "CP". So Maybe Dr Jimi, in the next version, call it CP or CO stock. And I think the sounds are too loud and what about getting sounds from the BVE CO/CP stock? It would sound more realistic than C stock sounds. The most big difference between them is the compressor sound.
Maybe the consists under yhis sentence might be more realistic.-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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I agree with you about the consist - already fixed and will be in the final release version. 30 secs work with ConBuilder
As I now have Richard's V1.1 "bodywork" that will also go in the final kit, designated as CO/CP Stock.
Interesting comment about the sounds. I already had an Email asking if they could be louder. I wrote back with an explanation about the SMS files and how to change the volume levels of the individual sounds, and the guy changed them to his personal liking. Feel free to do the same - sound is very subjective. Personally I now think the motor alternators are too quiet You can just hear them at standstill.I hope to get the final kit out in about 2 weeks as I'm going to be off-line (vacation) for 10 days. Oh, and the Boeing-Vertol Series 2400 cab is coming along nicely - about a week or so's work left to finalize the lighting and do the control animations. I'll post a few shots in a new topic.
Regards, Jimi

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Do can anyone e-mail me the v1.1 Silver version?-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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>Interesting comment about the sounds. I already had an Email
>asking if they could be louder. I wrote back with an
>explanation about the SMS files and how to change the volume
>levels of the individual sounds, and the guy changed them to
>his personal liking. Feel free to do the same - sound is
>very subjective. Personally I now think the motor
>alternators are too quiet You can just hear them at
>standstill.
>
Normally, in LUL trains, the track sounds are louder than the train sounds. That's why I feel it is too soft. Maybe I could repaint it to a more realistic R stock like the picture shown somewhere in this thread.
-------------My favourite LUL train-------------

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