Numbers and boiler views?

I'm trying to hack a generic steam cabview using the NALW big boy for a template (stop, thief!), and I'm wondering about several things,
1. If I manage to get the position (in the .cvf file) in the right place, will the boiler be visible?
2. Is there a way to figure out how far left/right, how high, how far back the position should be based on the numbers given in the .eng file? I guess the first question is, does the length in the .eng file include the tender (IE, overall length) or just the engine?Here's my "B'guess&B'god" hacking attempts on the 2-8-0 so far;
Since the big boy is a hell of a lot longer than the 2-8-0, obviously the default -16 is too far back, what I'm looking at here is the side of the tender up top. Oddly enough, the engine is not visible ahead of the tender.
Note the 405 on the side of the coal bunker, gives an idea of where the viewpoint in the first shot is.

Moving the view forward by changing the -16 to -8, -7, -6, etc., and moving the view down and left hasn't given me a boiler view yet.
Can you actually see the boiler in the window, or do you actually have to paint one on? Is this why nobody makes a steam cab view where you can actually see where you're going?
As for the obvoius first return question, yes, I am crazy.

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RE: Numbers and boiler views?, kevarc, Jul-10-02, 05:23 PM, (1) RE: Numbers and boiler views?, sniper297, Jul-10-02, 08:02 PM, (2) RE: Numbers and boiler views?, smmille1, Jul-10-02, 08:20 PM, (3) RE: Numbers and boiler views?, kevarc, Jul-10-02, 09:59 PM, (4) RE: Numbers and boiler views?, kevarc, Jul-11-02, 09:21 AM, (5) RE: Numbers and boiler views?, ctillier, Jul-11-02, 11:10 AM, (6) RE: Numbers and boiler views?, sniper297, Jul-13-02, 03:38 PM, (7)

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the view out of the cab window is an alpha'd area, if you want the boiler you need to add it to the ace. Moving the view position will not enable you to see the boiler.Kevin Arceneaux

Remember, its just a game!

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Yeah, that's what's puzzling me right now, how to add it? I'm one of those nuts who likes to see where he's going from inside the cab, which is why I'm trying to do an enlarged-window cabview in the first place (a lot of people complain about the ugly GP-38 cabview, but I like it cuz you can admire the scenery). Here's the default big boy ace file:And here's my hack with the window and alpha enlarged:And when I put that in the bigboy cabview folder, I get this;
Which is the effect I'm looking for, but where is the side of the boiler? It ain't in any of the ace files I can find, except the one that actually skins the shape, and I don't think that's it. I'm using all the same ace files in the \Cabview folder for the 2-8-2, is there something I need to put in the root folder?

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The reason its "working" is because you're seeing Big Boy Part 2. there. Part one, which is the one with the cabview, is only the lead truck and front drivers. you're getting basically the same effect as you were when you added it to the 2-8-0 and saw the tender but no loco.

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Sniper - you're going to need a skinner or modeler to do that, I only know why. You might email Chip with Dekosoft, he seams to have a good handle on it.Kevin Arceneaux

Remember, its just a game!

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Upon further review and looking at the relationships between the files, a skinner or modeler will not help. By the position of where your "eyes" are located in the cvf file the sim computes what you should see out the window. With it located on the front set of driving wheels you will not see the boiler. What you would need to do is move the cvf line from the one eng file to the other. However, do the way conventional steamers are constructed you will not have a better view out the window, you will always have the boiler/smokebox in the way. This is the first time I hav looked at the way the files interact in a steamer and I was using the way they are done in diesels and there appears to be some differences.Kevin Arceneaux

Remember, its just a game!

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Another problem to consider: perspective.The view positions and orientations specified in the .cvf file will determine the vanishing point of the exterior scenery.The cab background images also have a vanishing point, which depends on how the camera was oriented (if it's a picture) or the viewpoint of the rendering (if it's a 3D rendering) for each of the three views (front, left, right)If the interior and exterior vanishing points don't match up, such as in your example (and a great many MSTS cabs), the cab will work but feel strangely distorted. Maybe that's what's bothering you and not the lack of boiler out the window. I'm not saying the graphics MUST match up, but when they do you'll know it, it feels a lot more like you're really there in the cab.Just a thought, hopefully not too disconnected.Cheers,

--
Clem

http://www.tillier.net/speedworks/index.html

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Hmmm, left this thread orphaned for a while, hey? Well, thanks for the feedback, guys, I did try using the head out view from the .eng file and moving it left/right in increments from there, no luck yet. I also played with the view angle in the direction line in the .cvf, no luck there either. I wonder why it has 3 cvf files? Just noticed that, the one I'm hacking is BigBoy.cvf, there's also a BigBoy-fwd-1.cvf and a BigBoy-fwd-2.cvf, wonder what those are for.
I just figured that somebody in here would have a known formula for this stuff, it's all new to me. I'm even dabbling in reskinning once in a while, and that's crazy too, since I don't do it often enough to remember what all has to be changed, so I get a lot of error messages before I get it sorted out. Then I do something really stupid, like leaving it out in the rain before the paint dries, and it gets all rusted!

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