Suddenly, a suspicious hobby

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0501190349jan19,1,4935619.story?coll=chi-newslocal-hed&ctrack=2&cset=trueAS I posted in the scanner thread down in the “yard” we should add the police to the freq’s we monitor while on the “hunt” so to speak!This is a CLASSIC reason why! Best to get out of the way of misinformed and often over zealous cops, some with SERIOUS “My TOWN” issues Andy J http://www.blueridgerails.com/

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RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, OCrailfan, Jan-25-05, 07:16 PM, (1) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, rockislandfan, Jan-25-05, 08:20 PM, (2) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, singerbard, Jan-25-05, 10:27 PM, (5) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, westerngy, Jan-25-05, 11:54 PM, (6) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, ace6879, Jan-26-05, 03:37 AM, (7) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, Gixxer86g, Jan-26-05, 02:13 PM, (8) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, ace6879, Jan-26-05, 03:00 PM, (9) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, GrandTrunkFan, Jan-26-05, 03:26 PM, (10) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, Gixxer86g, Jan-26-05, 03:41 PM, (11) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, Andy J, Jan-26-05, 04:07 PM, (12) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, ace6879, Jan-26-05, 04:31 PM, (13) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, Brad 110, Jan-27-05, 05:00 PM, (15) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, singerbard, Jan-31-05, 03:24 PM, (16) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, Brad 110, Jan-27-05, 04:49 PM, (14) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, ChrisCooper, Feb-02-05, 05:08 AM, (17) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, Brad 110, Feb-02-05, 04:01 PM, (18) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, bigbadCN_man, Feb-02-05, 06:14 PM, (19) RE: Suddenly, a suspicious hobby, PAktino, Feb-02-05, 08:45 PM, (20)

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It says I have to register in order to view it....

Michael
My Photos at RailPictures.net!
Founding member of the "No Trail CR/NS SD45-2 club"

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-25-05 AT 08:25 PM (EST)

Try this, you don't need to register.http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0501190349jan19,1,4935619.story?coll=chi-news-hedOr go to the Atlas model RR website and go to HO scale forums. I think its on page 8 or 9.

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Very sad. It reminds me of the grilling my mom had to go through recently at the drugstore to get a package of cold medicine (which contained pseudoephedrine, an ingredient in making methamphetamine). She had to give her name and address, show ID<and they wouldn't even let her carry the package to the checkout. She finally balked when they told her she had to checkout at one specific lane.I'm all for co-operating with the police, but when they get overzealous like this and trample on our rights, we need to speak up and remind our governing officials that WE aren't the terrorists and shouldn't be assumed to be just because we like trains. I have a good position in that I am indeed in the local media and have my ID to flash if needed. It also helps that this is a relatively small community and people know me both from being on the radio and because I've been railfanning around here for almost 10 years. Still, if I am on public property and not causing any kind of disruption, the cops should have no right or authority to prevent me from getting my pictures. It's amazing. Frankly, the terrorists have won because we have SEVERELY changed the way we do things in the name of "security"."Those who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security, and will lose both." -- Benjamin Franklin

Kevin N Payne *aka* singerbard
Email: nikolaibard-*AT*-yahoo.com
Yahoo Messenger: nikolaibard
MSN Messenger: singerbard

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Its sad to see whats happening to our neighbours to the south.Your country is going more towards a communist country with no freedoms or liberty's all in the disguise of Homeland Security.Just Rollin Down The Tracks

Dale

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HEy all, First off, Why don't it supprise me Georgi55 posted a "shortcut" to something to hack into sites???????....Second, I am a member of the IC and WC lists where these guys post, and I know both from my travels and railfanning jaunts. I read about this the first day it happened. It's sad but true, and will happen more and more unless we the people put a stop to it. IIRC< a passenger waiting on the platform tipped the cops off to the guys being there...they WERE going to confiscate the camers and all their gear.This has happend before.....but these two are fighting back~! The police DO NOT have a right to use Gestapo tactics PERIOD when your on public property.....Weather Rumsfeld approves or not!While I hear on the radio here in Illinois we get to give more of our rights to privacy away to the law by the easing up of the ways they search your vehicle, that still don't give them the right to stop you from picture-taking, videoing, drawing, or just enjoying ANY hobby on public land......Now, get on Railroad property.....you got trouble Jack.....But until we as a people get it in the media's head we are sick and tired of the "Gestapo" getting it in their heads they have a right to do whatever they choose, and come up with whatever "security risks" they think they can get away with to stop what they don't agree with or understand.....THIS WILL CONTINUE.It is a shame my friends, that train watching by us is now thought to be a terrorist act......and yet, they never seem to do a thing about the Hadji's in Doughnut shops or gas stations. Not meant to be a racist remark, but think about it....... X(sigh,,,,,I wanna go back to the 80's. Ronny, where are ya when we need ya? (And I ain't even a Republican)

Kelley D. Ellison
CSX A-Line Chief Lighting Engineer
NALW Lighting Engineer

Dekosoft Lighting Engineer
GM&O SIMULATIONS Chief Lighting Engineer

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This is a no win situation for all involved.As a RR how do you protect yourself without "busting balls"?As law enforcement how can you tell a foamer from a would be terrorist without profiling?So we as railfans suffer.And the worse part is that we can offer some real help in protecting our railroads.

"Hold tight,feel the drivers bite,hear the whistle moan.Engine rockin' to the left and right,vibratin' in my bones.Once the locomotive steals your soul,you got a Casey Jones!"---Ian"Lemmy"Kilmister

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Hey, Your post has merit......but you know what...sometimes profiling is a ness. evil. Like it or not. BUT.....Keep in mind Tim McVeigh was a WASP........so nut jobs bent on killing to make a statement or to apease their "god" or the voices in their heads knows no color. SO were back to your post.......what to do? No one has the right answer. After re-reading mine, and thinking of this one, I am sure that the terror organizations KNOW we are looking for people of Mid-Easten decent, and would recruit some of the nut cases in the US. and the circle goes on. sigh...now I am depressed.

Kelley D. Ellison
CSX A-Line Chief Lighting Engineer
NALW Lighting Engineer

Dekosoft Lighting Engineer
GM&O SIMULATIONS Chief Lighting Engineer

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In the article it says and I quote:
"Olson, 55, and Burgess, 43, said they understand the security concerns but believe it was obvious they were not terrorists. A potentially bigger threat, they said, were backpack-toting passengers waiting to board the train."I believe that. That is the only thing in the article I agreed with. I think railroads just dont want people taking pictures of their stuff.

Dependable transportation for West Michigan, If your 1/87 scale.

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-26-05 AT 03:43 PM (EST)

You're right Kelly,how do you tell a foamer from a would be terrorist at all?Whether domestic or international,pretending to be a foamer would be the preferred and most likely tactic for a terrorist wanting to damage the rail system.But I'm not concerned about sabotage of rail lines so much as I'm concerned about a Madrid style attack.

"Hold tight,feel the drivers bite,hear the whistle moan.Engine rockin' to the left and right,vibratin' in my bones.Once the locomotive steals your soul,you got a Casey Jones!"---Ian"Lemmy"Kilmister

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Those cops need to leave us railfans alone. (Sarcasm)They need to go arrest the REAL criminals like these! (end/Sarcasm)http://www.local6.com/news/4130302/detail.html
Andy J http://www.blueridgerails.com/

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Oh god!!!! Jesus, I would be considered the anti-christ for the war pictures I drew when I was a kid...sound effects as I drew them too!So..OK< they arrest these boys for this drawing.......hmmmm....What about Mike Moore??? He made a whole intimidating movie!@!!!!God, where will it end????!!?!?!?!?!?"Does anybody here remember Beeeralynn?"A free prize for the one who guesses what that reference is from....It fits this situation!

Kelley D. Ellison
CSX A-Line Chief Lighting Engineer
NALW Lighting Engineer

Dekosoft Lighting Engineer
GM&O SIMULATIONS Chief Lighting Engineer

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>This is a no win situation for all involved.As a RR how do
>you protect yourself without "busting balls"?You don't. You ignore what is not on your property and go to ball busting when something does occur on your property. >As law
>enforcement how can you tell a foamer from a would be
>terrorist without profiling?You (they) can't, but the question then arises: Should the police be treating ANYONE as a suspected terrorist based on where he is and what is in plain sight on his person? IMO not only no, but HELL NO, not under any circumstances whatsoever.
Brad Meyer

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But there you have the big problem with "zero tolerance" issues. Too many people substitute the "rules" for their brains and common sense. Like the two little kids cuffed and arrested for drawing the kind of pictures little boys draw. How asinine. We have brains for a reason--but too many people want to be able to fall back on "zero tolerance" so thay don't have to actually use their brains, and of course have their asses covered in case of trouble."Well, that's the rules and we gotta go by the rules!" Those the same rules that say you can spend half your shift in the donut shop instead of out on the street doing your job?

Kevin N Payne *aka* singerbard
Email: nikolaibard-*AT*-yahoo.com
Yahoo Messenger: nikolaibard
MSN Messenger: singerbard

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>The police DO NOT have a right to use Gestapo tactics
>PERIOD when your on public property.....Weather Rumsfeld
>approves or not! If you mean "legal right", that point is still very much up in the air and will require a court test of the "The Govt knows whats's best for you" law. That law gives the police authority to use whatever tactics they deem proper in their ani-terrorism role. If you mean "moral right" I agree with you but the point is largely immaterial.>While I hear on the radio here in Illinois we get to give
>more of our rights to privacy away to the law . . .I haven't given up any rights that I know of. OTOH, I have had several taken away recently. If they can be taken away with impunity that they never were "my" (that is "our") rights in the first place. IMO is people would make that distinction then there would be much less "taking" of "rights" by govenmental entities.>But until we as a people get it in the media's head we are
>sick and tired of the "Gestapo" getting it in their heads
>they have a right to do whatever they choose, and come up
>with whatever "security risks" they think they can get away
>with to stop what they don't agree with or
>understand.....THIS WILL CONTINUE.Indeed. It reminds me of a poster from my youth that went something along the lines of "When Hitler went after the Jews I did not speak up because I was not a Jew. When he went after the trade unionists I did not speak up because I was not a trade unionist. When he went after the teachers I did not speak up because I was not a teacher. When he went after . . . (Judges, Doctors, etc., etc., in each case he did not speak up from the same reasoning). When he went after me I looked around and there was no one left but me to speak up."Brad Meyer

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We've had these sort of problems on and off in the UK aswell. At one point Network Rail, the semi-private company that owns all the track and stations wanted to ban photography outright on all the stations it ran (most are leased to and run by individual operators), which is practically every main station in the country. Security concerns were given as the reason. Luckely they had to withdraw the proposal due to a public outcry, not just from enthusiasts but from some national newspapers aswell (one ran a "save our spotters" campaingn). Sadly though this hasn't stopped many employees, in particular contract security staff, from making out that the rules exist, both for Network Rail, and other train operators. Their have been quite a number of stories about people having trouble from security staff. Most worryingly their have been stories about people posing as workers and "confiscating" cameras and other equipment, then running off with it. I don't know the situation in the US, but here the only people who have power to confiscate property are the police. Private security companies only have the power to remove people from private property, or detain people until the police arrive. The transport police, like all police in the UK, are so underfunded and bogged down in paperwork that its rare to see them about, but I have seen them whilst photographing and never had trouble. The only 2 times I have had problems from them were nothing to do with photographing, just being somewhere they felt I shouldn't (although I was on a publically accesable part of the station).

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That is exactly the reason that, although I have yet to go anywhere to take train pictures, I feel strongly about this. I figure if I don't speak now, by the time they ban the taking of photos in national parks, there will be no one left to speak up.Brad Meyer

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It won't be long untill we have to register our cameras, just like our guns.Or it will be illegal to own cameras. Seems to be the way things are going.Morgan

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He! What did you expect??? Give them 1 inch, and they will take 1 mile. American people were scared a few weeks, the government took the chance and did everything they wanted forever. People never learn from the past...

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