I wish "Model Railroader" was on CD-ROM/DVD

I have 100 years of "National Geographic" and almost every issue of "MAD Magazine" on CD. I really wish Kalmbach would do this for Model Railroader. An entire wall of my office is overflowing with back issues and the shelves are sagging. Asside from the storage and deterioration issues, it would be nice to be able to do searches, scale drawings and browse through issues that have long been out of print.Ron
http://www.railwaystation.com

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RE: I wish, briwdou, Jan-03-05, 04:27 PM, (1) RE: I wish, KeltikSylk, Jan-04-05, 10:34 AM, (4) RE: I wish, briwdou, Jan-04-05, 05:55 PM, (5) RE: I wish, KeltikSylk, Jan-05-05, 11:07 AM, (9) Frank -- You -- da man, briwdou, Jan-06-05, 11:28 PM, (14) Getting a reprint from the NMRA, stationmaster, Jan-07-05, 00:21 AM, (15) RE: I wish, Hack, Jan-05-05, 01:30 PM, (10) RE: I wish "Model Railroader" was on CD-ROM/DVD, andrewpickell, Jan-03-05, 05:26 PM, (2) RE: I wish "Model Railroader" was on CD-ROM/DVD, shoskins, Jan-03-05, 07:17 PM, (3) RE: I wish "Model Railroader" was on CD-ROM/DVD, Hack, Jan-05-05, 01:31 PM, (11) RE: I wish "Model Railroader" was on CD-ROM/DVD, cwhense, Jan-04-05, 07:42 PM, (6) RE: I wish "Model Railroader" was on CD-ROM/DVD, stationmaster, Jan-05-05, 02:09 AM, (7) RE: I wish, KeltikSylk, Jan-05-05, 10:38 AM, (8) RE: I wish, stationmaster, Jan-06-05, 03:46 AM, (12) RE: I wish, KeltikSylk, Jan-06-05, 10:23 AM, (13)

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-05 AT 04:29 PM (EST)

>I have 100 years of "National Geographic" and almost every
>issue of "MAD Magazine" on CD. I really wish Kalmbach would
>do this for Model Railroader. snipped>it would
>be nice to be able to do searches, scale drawings and browse
>through issues that have long been out of print.
>
>Ron
>http://www.railwaystation.com
Same here Ron.I've been trying to find a layout I tried to build in the 1970's that was in Model Railroader . It was in the mid 1970's (1974 to 1977). A N-scale 4 ft x 4 ft "under the bed" type of layout.I've been going to local railroad shows in the area, looking at back issues and I haven't found it yet.It would be a great idea.But I have no credibility

Best Wishes,
Brian W. Dougherty
briwdou@verizon.net

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Not sure it's the right one, but the only thing that looks like it in that period is "Brandywine Short Line, 4x4 N scale" in the December 1977 issue. Not sure I have it (not at home) but I'll check.The Index is very helpful, but it doesn't have a general search capability. I could not, for instance, just key in "under the bed" and find the article. I was able to use the word "bedroom", but that was a dead end. It does work well if you have a better idea of what you're looking for. I use it all the time for finding more specific articles on locomotives or railroads. I wouldn't be able to find things in my 8 decades worth of magazines any other way (unless I went through every one, every time).It also covers magazines that are not necessarily Kalmbach publications like RMC; and books like "100 years of Steam Locomotives".Wish there was a similar service for Railroad Magazine, but I haven't found one yet.Frank MusickMoving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-05 AT 05:59 PM (EST)

Thanks for the reply, Frank.I'm not sure. I do remeber starting to cut the lumber for the railroad benchwork in June 1977. I was home from college at the time. (but it could be.The only other thing I could find was Layouts for Small Spaces in the Dec 1974. Now, I've seen the back issue of that and that's not it.(edit to add
I do remeber making a full size track plan in Dec of one year. I remeber listening to the radio and they wer talking about the Tampa Bay Bucs making it into the playoffs for the fist time in their (then) short history. This would put it about 1975 or 1976. I'll go check the Bucs web site.
()Once again, tho, thanks for the reply.But I have no credibility

Best Wishes,
Brian W. Dougherty
briwdou@verizon.net

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I meant to check this for your last night and forgot...I'm sending myself a reminder.Frank MusickMoving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-05 AT 11:29 PM (EST)

Fifty lashes with a wet noodle. The Dec 1977 is the one I've been looking for.Brings back a flood of old college memories from the time. But I could have sworn that it was from either 1975 or 1976. Shows you how memories can change over 20+ years.Thanks Frank and Marc and everyone else who made contributions to this thread.But I have no credibility

Best Wishes,
Brian W. Dougherty
briwdou@verizon.net

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On a couple of occasions, I have used the NMRA's Kalmbach Memorial Library to obtain reprints of articles. I don't think you have to be an NMRA member, but as I recall the service is substantially cheaper if you are.http://www.nmra.org/library/
Phone: (423) 894-8144 Assuming "Building the Brandywine Short Line" is what you are looking for, it was on pages 86-91 of the Dec 1977 issue.Ron
http://www.railwaystation.com

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>I've been trying to find a layout I tried to build in the 1970's that was in Model Railroader .
>It was in the mid 1970's (1974 to 1977). A N-scale 4 ft x 4 ft "under the bed" type of layout.This one?
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG=MR&MO=12&YR=1977&output=5&sort=AIf so, I found it on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=280&item=4516499104&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVWCheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series v4.0 SuperPacks

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Ron and Brian,Check out this link to the The Model Train Magazine Index.http://index.mrmag.com/You can search the database to find out which issues articles are in etc. Not quite what you want Ron, but the closest thing that I know of.AndrewBC Rail Squamish Subdivision for MSTS

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At Kalmbach's prices, I doubt if anyone could afford it.

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Pssst - eBay. Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series v4.0 SuperPacks

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I wrote them awhile back about this, and got a email back. They told me was something along the lines that it would be too costly to scan in all the issues and they didnt think that there would be enough market to sell them.Now if we got everyone on this site to and others forums to email them requesting this be done. Maybe they will rethink the idea and do it. If there is a good market they would do it. Cost it would be cheaper then trying to find back issues you dont have at swapmeets and shows. maybe if you dont need but one or two but like me I have issues from when I was in highschool, then for about 12 years didnt buy it except every once in a blue moon. Now I back to getting in the mail but it does take up space.

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How long ago was that?I'm not sure how many pages we're talking about here (80,000 maybe?), but figures I've seen are 3-15 cents per page. Even at the high end (~$12,000!) the cost of indexing and CD-ROM production, the cost should not be very costly.Ron
http://www.railwaystation.com

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I had a similar reply when I sent them a link to this thread.It's not high on their list of projects.I'm gonna' speculate a little here, so bear with me...First big issue is copyright. You'd have to get quite a few legal issues settled before you went at it.The technical side is another major issue. You'd be digitizing nearly 1000 magazines. Times that by the number of pages in each issue. All the scans would have to be high resolution. You have to start with really good images, especially if you need to reduce them. Terrabytes of visual data? I know the individual scans I have made for plans are tens of megabytes each. They need to be if you want to read the dimensions, etc...It would also be labor intensive. You would need a dedicated staff working for at least a year to get it done. They would probably farm it out to someone, but either way it's a chunk of change.Then you would have to organize and index the entire thing so it would be search friendly.Most of all, it's just plain economics.National Geographic and other magazines are almost guaranteed a profit just from the number of libraries that would purchase a set. They also have a reader base numbering in the millions. Model Railroader has a circulation of about 200,000 or so. Of that number, only a small fraction spend real money on the hobby (I doubt that all those expensive Broadway Limited products are being purchased by more than a scant few). There is no guarantee that the average reader would buy the thing. I know I wouldn't because...A) I've been collecting MR for several years now and except for big chunks of the 30's and 40's I've got nearly every year.B) A digitized copy of a plan comes in handy when I'm modeling, but only if there is a computer around. I'm one of those neanderthals who still likes using hard copy for most other purposes. Books and magazines are extremely portable (you can roll them up, fit them into pockets, and they work even when wet). I seldom carry a laptop (or cell phone for that matter), because it's too much aggravation (thieves, electrical connections, wireless issues, blah, blah)C) I like looking at the old magazines.I buy up the old magazines when I find them cheap. I rarely spend more than a few bucks. The most expensive book I've ever purchased was about $45, and then only because I had a gift card to pay for it. I refuse to pay $10 for one issue of any magazine, even if it's printed in gold leaf. So spending any large amount of money on a set of CD's is not gonna happen.Having authored one, I tend to think that past response to MSTS articles in MR and RMC has appeared negligible to the publishers. I'm not sure that many train simmers actually consider themselves model railroaders. To many of the purchasers, it's just a video game. Probaly only a fraction of the owners of MSTS are diehards like us. Even though there seems to be quite a few of us based on numbers from the various MSTS sites and sales, how many of us have skewed those numbers by registering at multiple sites? More than that...how many of us are actually vocal enough to make ourselves heard. There are a lot of messages on the various forums on various sites, but many of them have the same names.Finally, we are not highly organized. There is no simmer SIG in the NRMA. As a segment of model railroading, we are less represented than S-scale (TT and OO even) and the various narrow gauges. One obstacle appears to be the amount of infighting as evidenced by the flame wars that break out whenever moderation gets lax. Many of us are talented individuals, and very opinionated. It's hard to create a cohesive group out of so may factions. I also think many of us are not at all comfortable with organizations, which is probably one of the reasons that MSTS appeals to us so much. We are strong individualists (if not rebels).I think we would have to change quite a few things about ourselves as a community before we became a marketing force.Like I said, I'm speculating. Take it with a grain of salt.Frank MusickMoving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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Thanks Frank, very interesting. I'm glad you followed up.I can address a few things, but pretty much it's up to Kalmbach - it's their property. I did think of one other benefit to getting their archives in digital form - preservation. Most of my older copies of MR are in pretty good shape, but I don't expect it to last forever, especially if I keep digging back into them.1. Copyrights - I would be surprised if Kalmbach did not own all rights, but odd contracts and conflicts happen. What they may be more concerned about is the legitimate fear of piracy. It's something that everyone in our business has to deal with.2. Cost. More research - 5 cents a page seems pretty common which would probably put the scanning cost under $10k. This is not something you would do in-house, there are many firms that specialize in document archiving. Higher estimates may be assuming in-house staff time, or OCR and CAD work, which are not really necessary if indexed and scanned at 600 dpi or better. My WAG is that it would take 6-CD's or 1 DVD.3. Demand, it's not just MSTS users. There are quite a few companies making model railroad and railfan software products (including me!) that have far smaller potential appeal than a complete MR magazine archive. There is most definitely a market. Most hobbiests do not have a vast library. They may be new to the hobby, have gaps from the college to starting-family years, or just not have the space. Age and deterioration will make older copies harder and harder to find.Overall, I think the costs are likely to be lower and the demand greater than many of the books that Kalmbach also produces and markets every year.

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I realize that there is a greater market than just train simmers. It's a given that the product would be valuable to all model railroaders and perhaps a few other hobbyists. Despite that, the basic issue is still economical.I took the liberty of looking up the 32 CD set that National Geographic produces. Even used, this collection fetches several hundred dollars. Amazon lists it for $300 second hand. I'm gonna assume the same for E-Bay (unless the seller is desperate).Geographic has a much wider appeal, with an monthly subscriber base of about 7 million. MR has only 186,000 readers on a monthly basis. That's a huge difference. NG is guaranteed some return on their investment. I'm not sure Kalmbach could claim the same.Although MR has been in circulation for over half the time that NG has, I'm thinking we are still talking 16 CD's (not every computer has a DVD drive). I'm also thinking the retail price would have to be at least equal to the NG set to make it profitable enough to produce.How many modelers would have the wherewithal or desire to shell out $300 for the set? I would think most would rather spend such money on models and supplies. There are those who would, but they're the same guys who have DCC in every one of their 57 locomotives running on 15 scale miles of mainline (or other combinations of heavy investment). I do not think the average model rail has that kind of disposable income.Your points on durability are well taken, and I agree it might be good for MR to create a digital archive. I believe this would be a priority, if they saw a reason for it. In such a case copies of that archive could be sold to recoup the costs. I'm guessing this is probably what happened in the case of National Geographic. Again it depends on how valuable the information is. Geographic is a historic document in many respects, and it's stories and photos have great historical value to the general public. MR could be considered the same, but for a very limited audience. You would think Kalmbach itself might consider the old copies a valuable asset, but does it?We should take into consideration that Kalmbach knows how much demand there is for their previous publications. Are they barraged with requests for article reprints? Perhaps not. If so, the old issues are just nostalgic curiosities. Or perhaps they are swamped with reprint requests and the sum of $5 per reprint adds up to a nice chunk of change. In which case the CD set might actually cost them money in lost revenue from the reprints.Having said all that, I have noticed that early issues of the magazine are becoming valuable as collector's items. While this drives me crazy (I'm not really a "collector" as I use the magazines for real projects) I can appreciate someone holding out for over $200 dollars on the 1934 set. It's hard to get single issues from the early years for less than $5-$10. The demand, however, appears to be for the original magazines. There are hardbound reproductions of the same years but they generally sell for less value. Because of this fact, I'm not sure this trend would prompt Kalmbach to create a digital version on par with Geographics.Finally, I do agree that it is a good idea, even though I don't need it. I'm just pretty sure Kalmbach is not interested at this time.FWIWFrank MusickMoving America into the 19th Century!

www.kelticsylk.com

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