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rjd (48 posts)
Feb-10-02, 07:33 PM (EST) "How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." were they somewhat like oversized automobile choke cables or electric switches again somewhat like model trains. Saw "The Train" movie starring Burt Lancaster yesterday, I couldn't see how the levers and switches were connected. Thanks, Roger D. Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: How were levers in control towe... CPR_Malice_96th Feb-10-02 1 RE: How were levers in control towe... chucksc Feb-10-02 2 RE: How were levers in control towe... jm1941 Feb-11-02 3 RE: How were levers in control towe... rjd Feb-11-02 4 RE: How were levers in control towe... jm1941 Feb-12-02 12 RE: How were levers in control towe... chucksc Feb-12-02 13 RE: How were levers in control towe... dvdhoven Feb-13-02 14 RE: How were levers in control towe... kevarc Feb-11-02 5 RE: How were levers in control towe... Nels_Anderson Feb-11-02 6 RE: How were levers in control towe... chucksc Feb-11-02 7 RE: How were levers in control towe... Uliger Feb-11-02 8 RE: How were levers in control towe... miketrak Feb-11-02 9 RE: How were levers in control towe... EngineJoe Feb-11-02 10 RE: How were levers in control towe... jm1941 Feb-12-02 11 RE: How were levers in control towe... Vince Feb-13-02 15

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CPR_Malice_96th (560 posts)
Feb-10-02, 07:43 PM (EST) 1. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." That is a VERY good questionOne that never puzzled me untill now !!Thanks !!Tim Kent

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chucksc (974 posts)
Feb-10-02, 09:31 PM (EST) 2. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." Some of the early ones I've seen are basically long steel rods... Kinda like choke cables on steriods... They were the reason for the Tall Levers in the Tower... To gain mechanical advantage to throw them... Later motors and "power assists" were added....------Chuck Schneider---------

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jm1941 (184 posts)
Feb-11-02, 01:19 AM (EST) 3. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." Hi Roger,Liked your explanation on how the cabins may have worked.
I worked in two of these type cabins during my Railway career. So here is picture with a breakdown of how they basically do work. No electric switches, but later type cabins did have electric type switches. Anyway this should give you some idea. A lot were built higher to get a good view of the area around the cabin. No radios or electronics in those days. Only Train Control (despatcher) or train whistles etc. The levers were great for muscle building if cabin was between shunt (switch) yards. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rjd (48 posts)
Feb-11-02, 08:19 AM (EST) 4. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-02 AT 08:31 AM (EST)Excellent info.,Chuck and jm1941. I guess in snow country the levers and rods must have frozen solid. Thanks, Roger D. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jm1941 (184 posts)
Feb-12-02, 08:09 PM (EST) 12. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." Hi Roger,Sorry I do not know about the effect of snow on the levers and rodding. Here in Australia it is very rare thing to see any snow at all. It melts as soon as it hits the ground. Heavy early morning frosts in winter did affect pulling the levers a bit though.Maybe Chuck knows about the snow effect on the rodding. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chucksc (974 posts)
Feb-12-02, 09:54 PM (EST) 13. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." I can't help you on this one... I was never in the tower when it was in operation with snow on the ground... Common Sense says it would have been a *itch because all the rods would have had a tendency to stick along with all the switches and signal gear! I'd bet they were getting heated up by smudge pots at the same time the switch points were....
------Chuck Schneider---------

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dvdhoven (574 posts)
Feb-13-02, 12:25 PM (EST) 14. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." Hi,I only know how it was in the Netherlands. Mainly from stories from old collegue railroaders. I myself was dispatcher on more modern systems with NX (Entrance/Exit) systems.But winter was a nightmare! Often the wires got frozen up, the weels were they run on, were stucked. Most of the time, in winter the weels got extra oil.
Here in the Netherlands, both signals and switches were pulled by a combination of wires and chains.
And as they often run through "tunnels", there was an extra risk that these tunnels could get frozen up. Quite often the signalmen put straw in the "mouth" of the tunnels to prevent snow to creep in.Dick van den Hoven
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kevarc (170 posts)
Feb-11-02, 09:16 AM (EST) 5. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." That is why they called them armstrong levers. Each of the levers had its own personality. You could throw one easily, while others might require a little english to throw.Kevin Arceneaux Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Nels_Anderson (574 posts)
Feb-11-02, 03:15 PM (EST) 6. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." I'd often wondered how that all worked and this is the first clear explanation I've seen. Thank you for sharing it. It's really a mechanical nightmare...amazing it all could be made to work reliably especially when you consider some of those rods went for quite a long distance. In old photos you can often see whole banks of the rods running parallel to the tracks. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chucksc (974 posts)
Feb-11-02, 03:21 PM (EST) 7. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." Nels,WHen I was a kid and haunting Stamford Yard in the late 50s they still had the "mechanical controls" for some of the switches run from a tower at the "throat of the yard"...
I think there was some kind of "power assist" installed by then though I'm not sure.... But I clearly remember the "banks of rods" paralleling the tracks... I also kind of remember something very similar from New Haven when I used to "bum rides" up there and back.....------Chuck Schneider---------

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Uliger (12 posts)
Feb-11-02, 05:04 PM (EST) 8. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." Ìt's not so long ago. In fact this 'mechanical nightmare' is still in use on a branch line used for diesel commuter traffic during the week. Ok, I live on the opposit side of the Big Pond. It's in Germany close to Frankfurt, the branch from Frankfurt/Bad Vilbel to Stockheim. That are about 20 miles under mechanical (muscle) control, with the exception of road crossings. It's a one lane track but during the rush hours every half an hour a train is coming. Because both directions are used that counts to approx. every 15 minutes a train. At least the guys(and/or girls?)have a weekend because they shut the line completly down during the weekends. Instead there is a bus service. In 2003 a reconstruction to modern standards is on schedule, but who knows?
Keep your (Amtrack) trains running!
bye
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miketrak (18 posts)
Feb-11-02, 05:40 PM (EST) 9. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-02 AT 05:42 PM (EST)Hi Folks,
I'm a volunteer signalman on the preserved Gwili Steam Railway near Carmarthen in West Wales, UK. We have a mechanical signalbox which operates the line. Our furthest operating semaphore signal is 905 yards from the box, so that's over 1/2 a mile of wire to pull to clear the signal! not for the inexperienced (It's fun to try and get the visitors to pull that signal off, even the 'muscle men' of the family have difficulty!) it's all in the technique rather then brute strength. Our points (Switches to the US!) are not very far from the box, so it is quite easy to operate them.
What may not be clear to some of our American friends who started this post, is that signals are operated by a wire, and points (switches) by a bar.
Put simply, when the lever in the signalbox is pulled, the wire (Which is attached to the bottom of the lever) pulls on the signal arm and clears the signal. There is a balance weight near the base of the signal post, so if the wire snapped for some reason, the signal would automatically go back to danger. It also makes the signal go back to danger when the tension on the wire is released (by putting the lever back)
With points (switches), they need to be forced both ways, so a solid bar is used to do that. The bars are 'n' shaped, and supported on rollers every few yards or so.
So, even though i'm 19, I am in the process of learning the finer points of mechanical signalling, ensuring it will last into the 21st century!!
Bye,
Mike.
P.S. Some places on the UK main line system still use mechanical signalling, Parts of Cornwall and South Wales are 'Hot-spots' for mechanical signalling. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
EngineJoe (56 posts)
Feb-11-02, 05:44 PM (EST) 10. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." I'm old enough to remember towers but too young to see them in used service. However, one of the local model railroad clubs in my area managed to save a set of armstrong levers, including track indicator and train control instruments, from demolition and they intergraded it into their layout. It was cool because I had a number of hot shot freights and a low priority train all at once. I had to throw the levers to operate the switches, signals, and locks in the proper order to keep everything running smoothly. I had a blast and it gave me an appreation for all those people that did/do this for real.Joe Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jm1941 (184 posts)
Feb-12-02, 02:02 AM (EST) 11. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." G'day interested folks,Good on ya mike working a preserved cabin. It is an art in itself.
Here is two old photos of the Mount Gambier signal cabin in South Australia.
This line was closed in April 1995. There is talk a Private railway will re-open this line again later.
This cabin had 40 levers that controlled the Mount Gambier Station Yard in South Australia.
There was another signal cabin 1½ miles away that controlled the 2 main lines and into the other Marshalling yard.
A brief run down.
Red: levers pulled OUT of the frame were for pulling off the Lower Quadrant signals. (45deg).
Red: levers IN the frame, showed ALL signals were at the STOP or ON position. (90deg)
Black: were for turning switches through that rodding that ran from the cabin to all the interlocked switches each end of the yard.
Blue: levers through rodding locked or unlocked switches.
White: levers were spares if needed later on.
The small buttons above the BLACK and BLUE levers are the Push-in electric circuit buttons that had to be pressed and held in, before one could operate any of the switch or locking levers.
If there was a train on a circuit anywhere, there was no way the cabin operator could operate the switches, as everything is locked up. If NO train on circuit, the electric button was pushed or held in to electrically ALLOW the lock and switch levers to be moved manually.
1. The BLUE lock lever was pushed into the frame. This unlocked the switches.
2. Then BLACK lever was used to change the direction of the switches.
3. Then BLUE lever pulled out again which locked the switches.
Note: there may be 3 or 4 other switches which may be involved in a train movement. Kept you flat out at times.
4. Then the RED signal levers could be pulled out of frame (OFF position) to allow a train or engine to exit, or be admitted into the yard or station. All this is for safety reasons and worked very well.
So the signalman had to know exactly in what sequence the cabin levers had to be placed, before any train movements could begin. Levers not set right, then NO signal, no movements, nasty docket from boss to answer.
Pulling these levers during a shift was at times a near back breaking job and very busy with two or three engines shunting (switching) at once all the time.
The Signalman's job was also incurred train working responsibilities, such as Electric staffs, S.A. Train orders, and Victorian staff & ticket working. This cabin in its day was quite busy, as there were two seperate shunt yards to contend with. In cabins were other little gadgets that were used if there were problems with the cabin. Will not go into that bit.
Sorry photo a bit wishy washy I've had it on my wall for years. It reminds me of those great now older railway days. No, I'm not in photo, I was shunting in the other marshalling yard at the time. I worked the Station and Junction cabins for last 2 years till they finally dis-connected them and all the signals and rodding was pulled out.
If any of you get the chance to see under one of these type cabins, you will be truly amazed how the engineers originally figured it all out. It's quite amazing, really is. Well worth a look.Hope you find this of some interest.
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Vince (88 posts)
Feb-13-02, 04:08 PM (EST) 15. "RE: How were levers in control towers connected to the switches in the yards...." As late as the late 70's on the Long Island Railroad at Mineola Junction where a double track line to Oyster Bay branched off the double track main there was a manual interlocking. There are two switches and a movable frog curved diamond crossing that branched off north from the east/west mainline. Trains, both diesel and electric (650 volts DC, outside third rail) thundered through the main line interlocking at 80 miles per hour. Speed through the interlocking off the main to the Oyster Bay Branch was a reasonable 10 MPH. Signaling was electric but the switches were operated manually from Mineola Tower about 1/4 mile east of Mineola station. The bars that operated the switches and diamond were about an inch and a quarter in diameter and were supported by flanged rollers about 3 inches in diameter.

In winter snow and icy conditions the switch points were heated by open gas flames burning under the switch points. How they kept the crossties from catching fire I do not know. This was also the case for the complex switching, many double slips, at Jamica Station (14 platforms?) where all but one of the Long Island Railroad lines converged, a very pretty sight at night in the snow, 2 miles of flickering flames under the switches. All these switches were electrically operated.Vince Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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