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Matt Vince (119 posts)
Feb-09-02, 05:21 AM (EST) "Observation Car question (real RRs)" Firstly, I have to praise all involved for the Merchants Limited cars. They are absolutley amazing!
The Question:
Since Observation Cars are always at the back, and since they are 'single ended', what happens to the observation car when the train reaches its terminus (this is assuming the terminus is not loop shaped)? Is the whole train turned on some conveniantly near triangle? Is the car itself turned on a turntable?Matt Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Observation Car question (real ... SHEPLEY1935 Feb-09-02 1 RE: Observation Car question (real ... chucksc Feb-09-02 2 RE: Observation Car question (real ... Matt Vince Feb-09-02 3 RE: Observation Car question (real ... harveype Feb-09-02 6 RE: Observation Car question (real ... Matt Vince Feb-09-02 7 RE: Observation Car question (real ... jm1941 Feb-09-02 4 RE: Observation Car question (real ... Matt Vince Feb-09-02 5 RE: Observation Car question (real ... nw_fan Feb-10-02 8 RE: Observation Car question (real ... pwillard Apr-10-02 9 RE: Observation Car question (real ... SHEPLEY1935 Apr-10-02 10 RE: Observation Car question (real ... easagrippa Apr-13-02 11 RE: Observation Car question (real ... SHEPLEY1935 Apr-13-02 12

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SHEPLEY1935 (313 posts)
Feb-09-02, 05:46 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Observation Car question (real RRs)" When the Santa Fe trains came into Chicago they were pulled back to the 18th St. Coach Yard and went around a baloon track so that the whole train was turned around to go back west! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
chucksc (1363 posts)
Feb-09-02, 09:06 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Observation Car question (real RRs)" Normally Vince they are turned! However the New Haven got tired of doing this after a couple of years and so converted their observation cars so they could be used mid-train or connected into the consist from either end... What they did was cut a door and add a diaphram to the "boat end". It so ruined the appearance that we decided to model the cars "as new" not after they had been bankruptcied and PCed?------Chuck Schneider---------

-----"Power for You"------- Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Matt Vince (119 posts)
Feb-09-02, 11:04 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Observation Car question (real RRs)" What I'd really like to see is a Gresley 'Beavertail' Observation Car, used by the London and North Eastern Railway with the A4 Pacifics (Mallard et al). These were truely great observation cars, in keeping with the styles of the time, and were a perfect finishing touch for the LNER's mighty non-stop expresses. Plus they were articulated at the inner end! (sorry, I can't find any pictures on the net)Matt Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
harveype (85 posts)
Feb-09-02, 07:18 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Observation Car question (real RRs)" LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-02 AT 07:28 PM (EST)MattRegarding the LNER observation car I am currently modelling this car and it 4 double brothers to create the coronation carrige set the models are complete I intend to release it with the A4 Commomweath of Australia. I am just finishing the texture maps for them. And as far as turning this carriage around, at the end of each journey the observation carriage was shunted off to a turntable and turned around so the train it selve was 1st class behind loco on one way of the journey and third class behind loco back the observation car was switched from end to end using a turntable.PeterPS Matt I just noted your comment about the articulation of the Observation car, It was not articulated it had its own two bogies, I have a few images and some tech drawings of the coronation train set. As a matter of fact the observation carriage was removed during winter as it was deemed that it had no use during the bleaker shorter days. It was reported too that the tail on the carriage increased the engines HP by 35hp at 100mph.Peter Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Matt Vince (119 posts)
Feb-09-02, 08:17 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Observation Car question (real RRs)" Yeah, about the articulation, I just looked at a pic of the obs car again, it wasn't articulated, ooops!Articulated Trains Rock! Or not! Depends on the Track! Matt
TGV fan
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jm1941 (234 posts)
Feb-09-02, 06:17 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Observation Car question (real RRs)" G'day Matt,My answer here is nothing to do with observation cars, but that was a good question as I often wondered at times myself about how they go about that in North America. > Is the whole train turned on some conveniantly near triangle? Just nice to see someone else use the term, TRIANGLE and not WYE, to turn or reverse engines etc. Actually never heard of the term WYE till the Train Sim Forum. I mentioned Triangle before on the Forum and no one defended me, so thought only us South Aussies used the name Triangle to turn engines etc when no turntables.
Triangle seemed more meaningful as the engine does actually go round like as in a triangle. Please no rockets copped that last time, just nice to see Matt used it as well. Thanks Matt do not feel alone now. It is interesting the different terms used on different country's Railways (Railroads)
The term "BALLOON", we call a LOOP.
We call a siding off the main line for crossing or passing trains, a passing siding, others call it a "loop". Just to name a couple.I personally find it is all very interesting, but at same time this can be confusing when trying to explain something of your own country's railway terminology to others who are not aware of these terms. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Matt Vince (119 posts)
Feb-09-02, 06:47 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Observation Car question (real RRs)" I tend to use the term triangle. Wye strikes me as being a Y shaped junction, and refers more closely to a switch/point/turnout/whatever-you-call-it-in-your-part-of-the-world . I use triangle partly because I am from the UK, where we let politicans mess stuff up, and partly because in French, triangular shaped junctions are called Triangle (eg Triangle de Coubert, PK32 from Paris on the PSE TGV line!!! )Matt
UK
TGV fan Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
nw_fan (287 posts)
Feb-10-02, 00:23 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Observation Car question (real RRs)" There is usually at least one, sometimes all turnouts/switches that branch both left and right (without the normal straight track) used in a wye. We call those turnouts wyes also. I speculate that this is where the name came from. Also if there is a straight mainline and you build a "wye" off it to turn engines, all the track that makes it up, minus your mainline track, looks like a "Y".Mike
Norfolk & Western
Precision Transportation Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
pwillard (33 posts)
Apr-10-02, 01:54 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Observation Car question (real RRs)" LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-02 AT 02:03 PM (EST)LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-02 AT 02:02 PM (EST)Well, I group up in the Framingham Ma, area and what we called a Y was really a triangle too. There is a small train yard near farm pond that lies perpendicular to the mainline. The yard converges on a throat area that then immediately splits left and right to the mainline.OOPS, can't do ascii pictures... With a litle backing up work towards the yard, this wouldn't be a bad way to turn a whole passenger train around...Never thought of that before now. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SHEPLEY1935 (313 posts)
Apr-10-02, 02:42 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Observation Car question (real RRs)" I turn my three car steam passenger local in Kalispel on the wye all the time to turn around and head back to Whitefish...Try It! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
easagrippa (143 posts)
Apr-13-02, 10:20 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Observation Car question (real RRs)" LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-02 AT 10:21 AM (EST)This is not the case with all trains, but into Chicago Union station most of the grand old ladies of American Passenger trains and even Amtraks such as the Three Rivers pull pass the station onto a wye and then back in. This was much simpler back in the day, but today this project takes 15-20 minutes because of the removal of road railers and express cars on the tail end of the train. The fact that roadrailers can't be backed up and can only be coupled onto from one end makes it even more complicated because the three rivers will drop them on the main then pull forward through the wye and back in. The backing in into Chicago can be seen if you watch most metra trains, they fly into the station backwards and pull forwards out since they run extremely fast scheduless for all the people they carry.Cheers
Nicholas Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SHEPLEY1935 (313 posts)
Apr-13-02, 12:11 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Observation Car question (real RRs)" But St. Louis Union Station was the classic of all "pull by and back into" arrangements! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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