Runaway

Is this a common occurence on railroads? I know there has been a movie about one called Runaway Train, and they say "There's a runaway coming your way." like it's an everyday thing. So is it?-Andy the LRC lover
EMD all the way!!

MapleLeafTracks:
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You will always be in our hearts and trains.

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RE: Runaway, rpicardi1, Oct-30-04, 08:03 PM, (1) RE: Runaway, taracer, Oct-30-04, 08:35 PM, (2) RE: Runaway, buzzbenz, Nov-12-04, 01:46 AM, (15) RE: Runaway, Xacto, Oct-30-04, 10:49 PM, (3) RE: Runaway, marko bevic, Nov-09-04, 11:20 PM, (12) RE: Runaway, sooner, Oct-31-04, 03:09 AM, (4) RE: Runaway, Magick_maker, Nov-01-04, 00:59 AM, (5) RE: Runaway, tcain1, Nov-06-04, 09:38 PM, (6) RE: Runaway, bradhig, Nov-06-04, 10:19 PM, (7) RE: Runaway, tcain1, Nov-07-04, 10:41 AM, (8) RE: Runaway, lnorth, Nov-07-04, 06:13 PM, (9) RE: Runaway, kro52, Nov-07-04, 07:30 PM, (10) RE: Runaway, marko bevic, Nov-09-04, 11:05 PM, (11) RE: Runaway, UP6767, Nov-10-04, 03:46 PM, (13) RE: Runaway, bradhig, Nov-10-04, 05:35 PM, (14)

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Given all of the safety interlocks on modern trains, it is a very rare occurance for this to happen. Lots of things have to fail at once.Deadman throttles go to run 0 and apply brakes if the engineer doesn't do something in a given period of time. Braking system on trains and the consist go into emergency if a brake line fails due to a broken hose or broken coupler.Still, it can happen. Example, an Erie LTV mining train blew the curve to the loading dock when the engineer was unable to control the speed of the consist on the long downgrade due to deep snow that created slippery track and made the brake shoes slick. Hollywood movies are just that - Their versions of runaway trains are pure Hollywood fantasy.SRV Ron

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-04 AT 08:41 PM (EDT)

The movie was trying to give credit to train dispatchers. It was saying that TD's are well trained, and can deal with emergencies without getting stressed out. Their training takes over and they deal with the problem. The movie showed the "big boss" of the railroad to be out of control and out of touch. Have you ever heard piolts talking to ATC? They are the same way when the unexpected happens. They remember their training and don't "freak out".Of course, it is Hollywood, so a little drama had to be added. Remember that this movie is 20 years old, so watching it now it maybe kind of cheesy.I saw it when it first came out, on the big screen, and enjoyed it.I didn't take it seriously, but understood that the producer was probally a railfan, like myself.

Modeling CSX, Metro North(ex CR, PC, NYC) Hudson Line, West Albany to New York Penn Station, 150 miles.
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> Have you ever heard piolts talking to ATC?Same with Mission Control. As good as the Apollo 13 movie was, even the cast and crew admit that the tensions with the crew were greatly exaggerated for the purpose of drama. They all remained calm and professional during the ordeal. And honestly, i think it may have been a rather dull movie if everyone remained calm the entire time!> Remember that this movie is 20 years old, so watching it now it
> maybe kind of cheesy.Not at all! I purchased that on DVD a few months back in fact, and still enjoy it.The train is really more of the, uh, well - vehicle - for the story, not the story itself. Runaway Train is more the human story of the two criminals that escape. Jon Voight's performance in that movie as Manny is timeless. I'll admit, when i was younger, i liked the movie just for the train. But now, i really like the story and the dialogue even more than the rail equipment...BTW - to the best of my knowledge, Silver Streak, of all movies, is the only one that has a pretty solid explanation of how the train ended up as a runaway. The did that very cleverly - the average Joe probably thinks that pedal is an accelator, while those of us in the know understand it's really the dead-man's brake. But for both the Average Joe as well as the rabid railfan, stashing the toolbox on top of that infamous pedal explains why the train didn't stop!----------- BUZZ -----------

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A real one here:http://www.cwrr.com/Lounge/Feature/runaway/

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>A real one here:
>
>http://www.cwrr.com/Lounge/Feature/runaway/
Xacto , ive just posted a link to the audio file man, different
link but what a top listen,
sorry didnt even see your post just went straight for the bat!
great site link and a great read. thanks.10-4
marko

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A great source of straight of information on this subject is the NTSB's "Railroad Accidents" website, http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/R_Acc.htm, where you'll find actual NTSB derailment reports. They include a tragic ATSF runaway on Cajon on February 1, 1996, caused by an undetermined obstruction in the train brake pipe which prevented full application of the brakes, and resulted in calls for mandatory ETD devises allowing the brake pipe to be vented remotely from the cab; and a scary runaway of 31 UP freight cars at Montclair, CA on June 20, 2003, caused by poor procedures.A famous runaway, also on Cajon, occurred on May 12, 1989, when a Southern Pacific freight derailed in the Muscoy neighborhood of San Bernardino CA, causing a pipeline rupture which lead to an explosion days later. This runaway was caused by inadequate dynamic brakes; there's an excellent account of it in "New Yorker" magazine, October 22, 1990, by George W.S. Trow.

Bud

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true runaways, with locomotives attached aren't as common as they were in the time of steam. Back then, there was the danger that something would happen, taking the crew out of the equation, and then causing a locomotive to continue on to derail.In the times of air brakes and deadman throttles though, it is rare. However, it does still happen.One story I am reminded of, is a particular company whose spur was on a grade. It was not uncommon for cars, left in the wrong spot, to begin to roll down hill and derail in the company's yard. Numerous times, this would cause injuries. Sadly, I'm unsure of where this happened. Though, runaways weren't always deadly or even caused by human error. Sometimes, to quote a friend of mine Crap just happened.Perhaps the funniest story I remember, took place on the CAGY (Columbus and Greenville Railway) back about 1950.The CAGY was known for stopping traffic over holidays and sundays. Well, one morning, crews returned to find one of their locomotives, a 4-6-0 or an 4-6-2 (forget which) with its nose sticking down in the middle of the turntable pit and its "tail" in the air. It was actually hissing and the engine seemed to be quite content with where it was. There was also a sizable ammount of leather belts hanging from the boiler, and a few bits of unidentifiable metals. It turned out, that the locomotive had been in the shops for minor repairs. The crews had left her with a banked fire, and left for the weekend. Well, somehow, a little bit of steam had managed to leak into the pistons, her brakes were loose (probably the repairs) and she creeped at a speed estimated to be 1 or 1/2 mile per hour out the front door. In the process she tore all the belting from the roof (hence the leather and metal) and destroyed the machine shop's conveyors and doors. It's guessed, it took her about 8 hours to travel the distance before dropping into the pit with a Thud.

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-04 AT 09:42 PM (EST)

A famous runaway, also on Cajon, occurred on May 12, 1989, when a Southern Pacific freight derailed in the Muscoy neighborhood of San Bernardino CA, causing a pipeline rupture which lead to an explosion days later. This runaway was caused by inadequate dynamic brakes; there's an excellent account of it in "New Yorker" magazine, October 22, 1990, by George W.S. Trow. Actually I just saw a Documentary on that, and it wasn't the train that caused the pipeline to burst. After the accident the pipe line was checked and it was ok. After that though, a Backhough was used for additional clean up directly above the pipeline. In effect, it removed layers of Earth in which the pipeline was only burried 6 feet under, skrapeing it at a number of points. This weakened it to the point of rupture within a few days. This coupled with a pipeline worker mistakening the warning signs when the pipeline shutdown and then restarted it made matters worse. You are right about the dynamic brakes. There were helper engines on the rearend and one of those had non-functioning Dynamic brakes, which the rear engineer didn't warn the lead engineer about. That coupled with the wrong calculation of weight (They thought some of the hoppers were empty.) led the engineer to enter the pass at too high of speed (30 MPH) for it's configuration,(Should have been <20MPH) caused the tain to accellerate at a higher speed then the remaining dynamic braking could handle causing too much friction. What made matters worse the rear engineer threw the emergency brakes which meant total loss of dynamic braking when that failed there was no hope, at point of the derailment it was estimated the train was doing 110MPH around the 45MPH curve.BTW The show was on Discovery Science channel today, Sorry I didn't catch the title.

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is that where the big white cross sits near the tracks on Cajon Pass? I have heard of it called the Disaster on Duffy Street.

Riding on Supertrain.

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is that where the big white cross sits near the tracks on Cajon Pass? I have heard of it called the Disaster on Duffy Street. That's where it happened Duffy St. Another disaster resulting out of it, was an ambulance chaser lawyer signed up 200 families affected in the accident in an action against the Railroad and Pipeline company, ending up settling for only 2-Million 7 years later, with the lawyer getting a big chunk of it. They ended up getting next to nothing compared to their losses. Others who sued independantly made out better.

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This discussion reminded me of a runaway that was in the news a few years ago. A CSX train in Ohio traveled almost 70 miles without a crew. I have always wondered why the alerter system did not stop the train. Well, I did search, and now I know: "Alerter system is nullified when locomotive brake cylinder pressure of 20 psi is developed in the Independent Application and Release pipe." The engineer made an incredible number of errors, including mismounting a moving train, which, because of another error, was accelerating, making remounting impossible. You can read about this runaway at community-2.webtv.net/bulletbob52/RunawayTrain/. Larry

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Here's a blurb from the NY Daily News:Feds: Train, crew both to blame

By PETE DONOHUE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

The runaway locomotive that injured four people in Queens last week had faulty brakes - but crew members also failed to use backup safety measures, investigators said yesterday.
Tests on the Long Island Rail Road locomotive found that the air brake system lost pressure after being set, the National Transportation Safety Board said.The crew did not set the hand brake or place blocks behind the wheels to secure the 150-ton engine - as required by LIRR rules - before leaving it idling and unattended in the Fresh Pond yard, the NTSB said in an update on its continuing investigation.Former NTSB Chairman Jim Burnett, who is now a private consultant, said the March 10 accident clearly could have been prevented."You had human error, maintenance failure and policy failure," Burnett told the Daily News.The NTSB also noted that a piece of equipment that should derail runaway equipment was not working - and that the LIRR inspected and passed the locomotive just two days before the accident.The locomotive rolled away on the LIRR's Bushwick freight line after the crew left it for a short time to move another engine. It slammed into three cars and two trucks on a nearly 2-mile trip. Two of the four victims were critically injured.The NTSB also is looking into a March 6 incident in which the same locomotive rolled but was stopped by a conductor who jumped aboard and set the hand brake.LIRR spokesman Brian Dolan said the four crew members have been relieved of their duties but remain on the payroll pending the results of an internal investigation.Robert Evers of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers declined to comment yesterday. But he previously said that mechanical failure, not the crew, was to blame. Originally published on March 17, 2004 KRO52

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>Is this a common occurence on railroads? I know there has
>been a movie about one called Runaway Train, and they say
>"There's a runaway coming your way." like it's an everyday
>thing. So is it? Hi Andy, here's a real life one for you, but in no way do these things happen daily mister.http://www.trainnet.org/Libraries/Lib002/RUNAWAY.RA 1.25mb(please right click and save to you computer, and you will require real player to listen to the file)21 minutes 46 seconds, mono a Recording of the radio conversation between the CN dispatcher and the crew of a runaway train as it hurtles towards disaster near Nipisiguit, New Brunswick, in the early 1980'sI had posted this one many years ago here, prior to losing my membership due to forum crash, but well worth the time for a listen.10-4
Marko

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the Movie Atomic Train was dealing with this. The Lines Broke between the two front engines and the first locomotive had a small fire.. and they couldnt control it.

Shawn.
Guilford Rail System
SD70ACe_GM73@yahoo.com
Korn's # 1 FAN!!

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In a Rescue 911 episode a coupling broke on a train and two boxcars rolled backwards striking a car in a crossing killing one person. The warning lights and bells at the crossing were not triggered by the runaway cars.

Riding on Supertrain.

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