The New SD70M-2

http://www.gmemd.com/en/locomotive/na_freight/sd70m-2/Still ugly!Austin

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RE: The New SD70M-2...., TexasWestern70Mac, Sep-14-04, 10:51 PM, (1) RE: The New SD70M-2...., runaway_b_unit, Sep-14-04, 10:57 PM, (2) RE: The New SD70M-2...., smp11512, Sep-14-04, 11:01 PM, (3) RE: The New SD70M-2...., plainsman, Sep-14-04, 11:15 PM, (4) RE: The New SD70M-2...., TexasWestern70Mac, Sep-15-04, 00:37 AM, (5) RE: The New SD70M-2...., smallspy, Sep-15-04, 01:08 AM, (6) RE: The New SD70M-2...., ASR_Q301, Sep-15-04, 01:41 AM, (7) RE: The New SD70M-2...., adamb, Sep-15-04, 02:02 AM, (8) RE: The New SD70M-2...., ASR_Q301, Sep-15-04, 08:45 AM, (13) RE: The New SD70M-2...., Mousy, Sep-15-04, 06:01 PM, (20) RE: The New SD70M-2...., trainmaster_1, Sep-16-04, 00:17 AM, (26) RE: The New SD70M-2...., plainsman, Sep-15-04, 07:31 AM, (11) RE: The New SD70M-2...., smallspy, Sep-15-04, 10:58 PM, (25) RE: The New SD70M-2...., robertlearmont, Sep-16-04, 04:47 PM, (30) RE: The New SD70M-2...., USRailFan, Sep-15-04, 02:39 AM, (9) RE: The New SD70M-2...., NW 1218, Sep-15-04, 07:14 AM, (10) RE: The New SD70M-2...., OCrailfan, Sep-15-04, 08:30 AM, (12) RE: The New SD70M-2...., CPR_Malice_96th, Sep-15-04, 09:50 AM, (14) RE: The New SD70M-2...., Chessie SD50 8563, Sep-15-04, 02:12 PM, (15) RE: The New SD70M-2...., FURX, Sep-15-04, 02:32 PM, (16) RE: The New SD70M-2...., FireDragonLightning, Sep-15-04, 02:54 PM, (17) RE: The New SD70M-2...., NewEnglandRailFan, Sep-15-04, 04:22 PM, (18) RE: The New SD70M-2...., ASR_Q301, Sep-15-04, 10:16 PM, (24) RE: The New SD70M-2...., SouthwestChief, Sep-15-04, 05:29 PM, (19) RE: The New SD70M-2...., smp11512, Sep-15-04, 06:03 PM, (21) RE: The New SD70M-2...., ns_sd70m, Sep-15-04, 09:13 PM, (22) RE: The New SD70M-2...., AEM7AC 920, Sep-15-04, 09:58 PM, (23) RE: The New SD70M-2...., Macster, Sep-16-04, 01:35 PM, (27) RE: The New SD70M-2...., SouthwestChief, Sep-16-04, 03:43 PM, (28) RE: The New SD70M-2...., NW 1218, Sep-16-04, 04:24 PM, (29) RE: The New SD70M-2...., NorthShore_364, Sep-16-04, 05:19 PM, (31) RE: The New SD70M-2...., adamb, Sep-16-04, 08:16 PM, (32) RE: The New SD70M-2...., ASR_Q301, Sep-16-04, 08:29 PM, (34) RE: The New SD70M-2...., NewEnglandRailFan, Sep-16-04, 08:38 PM, (35) RE: The New SD70M-2...., The MP36er, Sep-16-04, 08:26 PM, (33) RE: The New SD70M-2...., ns_sd70m, Sep-16-04, 10:39 PM, (36) RE: The New SD70M-2...., Erick_Cantu, Sep-17-04, 10:25 AM, (37) RE: The New SD70M-2...., TexasWestern70Mac, Sep-18-04, 04:30 AM, (38) RE: The New SD70M-2...., ASR_Q301, Sep-18-04, 07:24 AM, (39) RE: The New SD70M-2...., BN_9402, Sep-18-04, 09:34 AM, (40) RE: The New SD70M-2...., ASR_Q301, Sep-18-04, 11:03 AM, (41)

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agreed........ very ugly....... they weigh too much, and WON'T sell..... this being said i'm an EMD fan, but these engines are fuse into the EMD death bomb ......... if these flop, which it looks like they will, and they dont make anymore sd70m's/mac's....... emd will be gone .... not the first time they screwed up though, but this might do them in for good.........Hauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb; train sim repainter

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I would like to see more of the classic SD70's, SD70M's, and SD70MAC's built if the railroads need new power. Some of the fleets out there are getting old so that could be soon.

C h r i s

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Lol, Mikes gonna dieeeeee
Shane

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Hi Bill,
It looks like these were made to order for UP. And maybe NS as well. I would guess little if any market at BNSF and not much at CSX either. I don't know what CN is doing?? They might be a market as well?
Bob

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still doesn't make them any less ugly or beat the crap out of the tracks any less Hauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb; train sim repainter

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Hey Bill, bad news for you....They aren't THAT heavy. There are locos that are weighted as much as 430k lbs. There are other locos that damage the track worse that don't weigh as much.Just like every locomotive built since, well, quite possibly the beginning of rail travel, the weight can be varied. That just happened to be what they recommended/used for their numbers.Bob, did you notice that the starting TE seemed a little high for a DC unit? Hell, GM is saying that 191K STE is possible with the 70ACe...DanAbsolute power corrupts absolutely.

www.greatlakesrail.com

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OMFG!!! That is AWFUL!!!! <runs to the bathroom to throw up>Back...Well...What I said to Shane about these "things"...isnt postable...So I will leave you with this short, sharp, sweet message...GO THE GEVO's!!!!!!I have said it before...I will say it again!!>Mike Forster<
Perth, Western Australiapacificnational_nr103@hotmail.com
http://www.trainweb.org/aussiepix

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>Well...What I said to Shane about these "things"...isnt
>postable...So I will leave you with this short, sharp, sweet
>message...
>
>GO THE GEVO's!!!!!! What I said about GEVO's can't be repeated either KILL THE GEVO's and BUILD A DAMN SD40-2!Ever notice how GE rebuild EMD products? Adam

Visit my website! www.trainweb.org/aussiepix/
Adam, TKW Reskinner, Australia

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>Ever notice how GE rebuild EMD products? Yeah...because EMD couldnt give a rat's @$$ about thier older SD40-2's... But GE (Being GE) saw a market for rebuilding meduim horsepower (3000hp range) locomotives. OK...im going to say this...GE's U-Boat and Dash7's were not the greatest locos ever...infact they were rather crap. EMD owned GE back then. But look at the 21st Century! If it wasnt for A) UP's SD70M's B) BNSF's SD70MAC's...EMD would be in a grave yard, and it will be GE and MP flying the locomotive building market flag! GE rebuilding EMD products is just them trying to make a couple of bucks...something EMD seam to be struggling to do! >Mike Forster<
Perth, Western Australiapacificnational_nr103@hotmail.com
http://www.trainweb.org/aussiepix

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>KILL THE GEVO's and BUILD A DAMN SD40-2!Amen!BTW, why are they STILL comparing the performance brand-new, modern, high-tech locomotives with that of an SD40-2? An SD40-2 will always be a gas-guzzlin' old beauty that's not high-tech and computerized, so why aren't they comparing new locomotives with todays standard, an EMD SD70 or a GE C44-9W? Besides, the only Tier 2-compliant locomotive out there is the GEVO (ES44DC/ES44AC). Yes, I do know about the SD70ACe (and the SD70M-2? I ain't even gonna go there!), but I wouln't call THAT a locomotive. Everyone will be happy when EMD can build a Tier 2 emmisions-compliant SD40-2 that is as efficient and reliable as todays modern high-horsepower locomotives, but still performs like a true SD40-2.

SD40-2: the best locomotive EMD ever made!
______________________________________________
Fort Worth Locomotive Shops
ENG & WAG Technician & Lighting Engineer

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-16-04 AT 00:21 AM (EDT)

>BTW, why are they STILL comparing the performance brand-new, modern, high-tech locomotives with that of an SD40-2?They must have forgot what an SD40-2 looks or sounds like>An SD40-2 will always be a gas-guzzlin' old beauty that's not high-tech and computerized, so why aren't they comparing new locomotives with todays standard, an EMD SD70 or a GE C44-9W?Amen to that brother and such a reliable locomotive it is, but I guess they want to convience the railroads that newer locomotives can out perform an SD40-2 anytime anyday, yea right like they can.......>Everyone will be happy when EMD can build a Tier 2 emmisions-compliant SD40-2 that is as efficient and reliable as todays modern high-horsepower locomotives, but still performs like a true SD40-2.That I would like to see but the good old SD40-2 doesn't need computers to keep it running it needs maintainers to keep it running it tip top shape! I would like to see some computers in the good old SD40-2 (but not alot) but what I would like to see is rebuilding them SD40-2 to have GE electrics so that can lug well with a heavy load but thats not gonna happen I like them as fast loaders and not slow pokes. Mike
Future CPR Locomotive EngineerPontiac Grand Prix GTP - Built For Drivers"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven" - Jean Chretien

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Hi Dan,
Many marketing departments get a little aggressive in the specs they publish for equipment. The CW60AC and the SD90Mac were both supposed to get over 200,000 pounds of STE from 425-427,000 pound units. Under "lab" conditions, maybe this is possible, but under real operating conditions the best from a 427,000# CW60AC was a shade over 188K pounds, and the 425,000 SD90Mac about 185K pounds. I have not heard any good operating condition data on the GEVOs and 70ACes. I would guess that even with latest technology, DC is going to get about 34-35% of weight and AC about 44% under excellent rail conditions in the field. 40% DC (the nice round number marketing chose) and 50% AC are probably only encountered under "lab" conditions. As an example of how you get "lab" type data, you carefully groom the rail, test a lead unit, then add the target locomotive to the test behind the lead unit and the difference between TE before and the new TE is the rated TE. The second unit will get a little more pull than a lead.
I agree, 407,000 pounds is not all that heavy. I think most BNSF Dash 9s are up over 405,000 pounds (the Santa Fe units were a little lighter at about 392-395,000#), and BNSF had coal SD40-2 units that went over 415,000 pounds. Most SD70Macs are about 410,000 pounds, and most CW44AC weigh 415,000 pounds. CSX had some 425,000 pound CW44AC (AC4400) "Magnum" units.
Bob

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Bob,
Thanks for the explanation about how TE testing is done. That would explain why much of the time when EMD test consists are photographed, the newest unit is somewhere in the middle, rather than in the lead.DanAbsolute power corrupts absolutely.

www.greatlakesrail.com

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I think they look good, but I agree with the rest.
Google, Google, Google!
Simplest answers are always the best!

Howdy!
Bob
E-mail: robertlearmont@realcountryfan.com

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So THAT is what happened to Volvo's design office from the 70s and 80s - they all went to work for EMD

Leiv Eiriksson was first - Christoffer Columbus used a Viking map!

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Hehe, looks like another EMD.............................I like it.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim

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Well, the locomotive looks cool but the paint scheme is NOT. Yeah, I guess some railroads may need this soon....

Michael
CEO and Founder of Virtual Morgan Run Shop, now hiring!

My Photos at RailPictures.net!

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>Well, the locomotive looks cool but the paint scheme is NOT.
>Yeah, I guess some railroads may need this soon....
I agree,Put a CN or UP paint scheme on there and it'll look pretty goodLater

Tim Kent – 96th_Malice - Winnipeg Canada

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hum D100 traction motors.... sounds tasty, wounder how differnt they are from the D90TR

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At least they could humore us by putting an SD40-2 body over top the engineThe last "cool" looking engine EMD did IMO was their flarred radiator SD70MACs for CSX..........Well, EMD has convinced themselves that this will sell, I'm sure they thought everything through...........I hope....-Jeffrey

Courteous Future Engineer
NKP 2-8-4 #765. www.765.org
Chessie System Historical Society. http://moosevalley.org/cshs/
My Website; www.xanga.com/csxd765

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Will look pretty durn nice in CPBTW, that photo is actually a photochop, no models have been produced yet!

Jay
http://www.s95019297.onlinehome.us/

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-15-04 AT 04:23 PM (EDT)

Nice! I love that look! Seriously. Still doesn't look like a Dash 2 tho. I think this is directed at the anti-AC traction rr's like NS and CN and maybe even for BNSF Transcon.Its still better looking than the GE crap!-Dave

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Hahahahahaha.....BNSF + EMD?!?!?!?! Not in my life time!! BNSF seam to be keen on GE Hence why BNSF is my favorite RR! >Mike Forster<
Perth, Western Australiapacificnational_nr103@hotmail.com
http://www.trainweb.org/aussiepix

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It's an okay looking loco in dire need of a nose job. I personally would hate to see the BNSF (Santa Fe Cigar Band) herald applied to a beak like that. I hope BNSF stays with the GE's for a while. It seems almost every BNSF loco out here is a GE Dash 9.
Matt Doti

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/fdoti/index.html

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I have a little wager going with Mike that BNSF will be staying with the GE's }> , I would have to agree though on the fact that the Santa Fe's Cigar band would not look good on that Shane

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Personally, I wouldn't mind the design of the locomotive if it had the EMD cab that is found on the earlier SD70/80/90. Other than that, I would prefer it over it over a GEevo just like I prefer an SD40-2 over GE's old Dash-trash.

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-15-04 AT 09:58 PM (EDT)

They still look the Same as the ACE's and that's UGLY!! Give ME A GEevo.AEM7AC 920
How do you like your toast?

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Gevo Gevo Gevoooo..............

______________________

Brian E. Bundridge
http://Evergreentracks.tk

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>Gevo Gevo Gevoooo.............. So when you say this three times does that mean a GEVO appears, like Beetle Juice?
Matt Doti

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/fdoti/index.html

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NS+EMD=Good looking engine.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-16-04 AT 05:23 PM (EDT)

>NS+EMD=Good looking engine. Did you mean "NS+GE=Good looking engine (until NS decides to buy 1026 GE widecabs)"? I think the Dash 9 looks much better but I'd rather see an SD70M because the Dash 9's are everywhere and they get very old. If NS bought 1000 SD70M-2's I'd sell my camera on Ebay.Compare these two photos. The GE looks alot better than the EMD. I would, however, like the EMD more if it had been painted blue with a white band on the nose with the words "Conrail Quality" . Note: I like NS' Second Generation EMD's, just not the SD70M's.

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Bah! That SD70M 0wnz the GE I think anything looks good in NS! Adam

Visit my website! www.trainweb.org/aussiepix/
Adam, TKW Reskinner, Australia

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Well...seeing the SD70M is my 3rd favorite locomotive, I cant really go EMD bashing...its just those new low emmission EMD's I hate. 1) C44-9W + any GEVO's...tied first
2) SD45-2, SD45, SDFP45, SD45-2B's...pretty much the same things
3) SD70M.Im starting to get used to the new paint on NS locos. I perfer the all black windshield on the C40-9W's though. Nice shots! >Mike Forster<
Perth, Western Australiapacificnational_nr103@hotmail.com
http://www.trainweb.org/aussiepix

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Ooo someone's been fishing! I don't like catfish myself -Dave

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>>Gevo Gevo Gevoooo..............
>
>So when you say this three times does that mean a GEVO
>appears, like Beetle Juice? Of course! Just don't say it in your house!Oh, and anything EMD comes out now with is gonna be ugly until it is painted in NS black. The black hides all the hideousness and that horrible cab design.Joe LeMay

One of us Railfans from Downers Grove, IL

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My favorite locomotive of all time is the NS NSD70M. It has flared radiators and a cool nose while still having EMD's teardrop cab. My second favorite loco is UP's flared SD70M's. GE's are just too boring...

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Yeesh. Can't Canadians do ANYTHING right?"The F59PHI and Genesis are the lamest excuses for locomotives Amtrak has ever operated - accept it and move on. Hug an F40 before it's too late!"

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actually the canadians just make em, blame the US for the inherent design failure Hauling America one pixel at a time
Bill Hemb; train sim repainter

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Now...if us Aussies made them...they would be 4000hp and box cabed!! lol>Mike Forster<
Perth, Western Australiapacificnational_nr103@hotmail.com
http://www.trainweb.org/aussiepix

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Ya'll never been to Powder River then eh? GE smokes EMD there. Nothing like watching a BNSF and UP coal drag with EMD and GE power respectivly racing up Logan Hill. The UP drag wins the battle easily, whilst the EMD powered BNSF drag slows to a crawl, backing up everything behind it.BTW, SD70M is the only GOOD modern EMD unit, with the SD9043MACs coming in at a close second.Austin

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Agreed Austin!! SD80's were a complete waste of time.
SD50's are still giving EMD headaches.
SD60's are slowly getting problems.Hehehe..noticed how all this happend when they left La Grange?? >Mike Forster<
Perth, Western Australiapacificnational_nr103@hotmail.com
http://www.trainweb.org/aussiepix

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