New Rules in effect at 6pm PST

LAST EDITED ON Jul-13-04 AT 11:01 PM (EST)

Editing Final Rules

Brian E. Bundridge
http://Evergreentracks.tk

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New Rules in effect at 6pm PST [View All], Macster, 03:34 PM, Jul-12-04, (0) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, bnsfrr, Jul-12-04, 04:24 PM, (1) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, ATSF104, Jul-12-04, 04:57 PM, (2) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, sinclair97, Jul-12-04, 05:06 PM, (3) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, shoskins, Jul-12-04, 07:12 PM, (4) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, chazlee1, Jul-13-04, 10:22 AM, (5) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, jdtrainman, Jul-13-04, 11:55 AM, (6) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, Macster, Jul-13-04, 12:40 PM, (7) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, jdtrainman, Jul-13-04, 01:15 PM, (8) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, The Real Leo, Jul-13-04, 02:53 PM, (9) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, sinclair97, Jul-13-04, 03:17 PM, (10) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, ssw, Jul-13-04, 03:21 PM, (11) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, yellowdog, Jul-13-04, 04:47 PM, (13) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, chucksc, Jul-13-04, 04:57 PM, (14) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, Macster, Jul-13-04, 05:18 PM, (15) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, jdtrainman, Jul-13-04, 05:56 PM, (16) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, moose49, Jul-13-04, 06:55 PM, (17) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, steamloco, Jul-13-04, 10:52 PM, (19) RE: New Rules in effect at 6pm PST, jgvaughan, Jul-13-04, 07:14 PM, (18)

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All seem fair yet firm. Thank you for your work on the new rules, appears they should help things out.

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Seems fair there are some rules that I dont understand I guess I'll read the official ones later.-MattATSF GP60M #104 works on the local in Flagstaff, AZ.

www.atsfrr.com Please attend the up coming convention in Pasadena, California.
Vice-President of FWLS. Now Hiring!

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Brian,I echo Mike's sentiment: "Fair yet firm", and thank you for providing a well-thought out procedure. One last point: as of today does the 30 to 60 day ban apply retrospectively.

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Add my vote for agreement on the new rules. Perhaps people will start acting more maturely in these forums now.

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Ditto.....

Happy Rails,
Chaz
(BNSF Conductor)
<>

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Brian:As one of the forum moderators I expected that I would have been included in the discussions pertaining to the imposition of new rules which appear to affect ALL forums. Since that didn't happen, here are my thoughts...This business of new rules DOES bring up concerns which I encourage you to carefully consider and what the potential outcomes may be of the enforcement.I have no problem with the "3 strike" rule however I see nothing that gives the banned user the right of appeal. Who judges whether a warning is justified? Who keeps the records? Who has the final say? Enforcement can not be arbitrary and capricious. What is to keep a moderator who is angered by a user from simply marking up a warning?It is my firm belief that what goes on in private mail is not within the perview of the forum moderators. That is PRIVATE and privileged communications between two users. By treading into private mail you're treading on VERY shaky legal ground. Leave that to Nels. Stepping into private, privileged communications, is NOT appropriate even if it IS a flame fest between two users. Unless and until it spills into one of the public forums we moderators have NO business getting involved, period. I certainly think that it's long overdue that we clean up the flame wars but the current rules, established by Nels (as I understand it), already provide the relief necessary. Still, having specific guidelines is a good thing...it's getting people to READ the guidelines that is going to be the difficult part.I don't see why there is a problem with cross-posting of multi-player sessions (or any other forum!) for a reasonable period of time until that forum becomes solidly established but apparently you do. We are still building the following of that forum and I would hope that there would be some flexibility along this line. I would think that a reasonable period of flex-time would be acceptable....Once again, I support the fact that we need to clean up the forums and will back you up 100% on this but I will also defend the right of the user to appeal and think you should seriously consider adding that to your new commandments.
--
Jim Duncan
Multi-Player Forum Moderator

Jim Duncan
Midwest Rail Group

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LAST EDITED ON Jul-13-04 AT 12:42 PM (EST)

Jim, remember, you are the one that wanted the forum and to keep the multiplayer posts from all over the forum. Keep it in your forum. That is that.

Brian E. Bundridge
http://Evergreentracks.tk

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I trust that you will apply the same vigorous approach to ANY topic that does not belong in your forums. What applies to one must apply to all.Once again, I support what you're trying to do, but I don't completely agree with everything you present (re-read my previous post).Are these new rules applicable to every forum or only to YOUR forums? That is one point that has yet to be clearly defined.JD

Jim Duncan
Midwest Rail Group

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Will there be different rules for different forums?If so, there will certainly be much confusion.

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It is clear that Macster has gone to a lot of trouble to present the rules in both a fair and very clear way that leaves no ambiguity! Continued negative criticism of these well-thought out rules only seeks to undermine (intentionally or unintentionally) the running of the Train-sim forum

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they sound like global rules for all forums Jim. Bradley Linda
Waco, Texas

TKW Paint Shop

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"It is my firm belief that what goes on in private mail is not within the perview of the forum moderators. That is PRIVATE and privileged communications between two users. By treading into private mail you're treading on VERY shaky legal ground. Leave that to Nels. Stepping into private, privileged communications, is NOT appropriate even if it IS a flame fest between two users. Unless and until it spills into one of the public forums we moderators have NO business getting involved, period."This is not exactly true because, by their very nature of taking place and being hosted by this forum, they are not "private." It's sort of like passing notes in school, in my opinion. I don't particularly want a moderator "snooping" through my PMs (though he/she wouldn't find anything offensive), but I would like the ability to bring a PM to a moderator's attention for action if necessary should the PM cross any boundaries established in the forums. As for the rules, I say, "Bring it on!"

Clayton

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I agree with Clayton on this one...
No snooping! But if a problem is reported then authority to investigate and take action...
Otherwise all that will happen is the Village Idiots will go hog wild with abusive PMs.....Chuck Schneider
Chief Cook, Bottle Washer and (Virtual) CEO

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Heh, We can't look at your notes, you would have to show us. Otherwise there is nothing we or Nels could do.

Brian E. Bundridge
http://Evergreentracks.tk

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If that is the case then I see no problem IF a PM is reported but I think that there is a potential for abuse here. Unless it really does spill over into the public forums leave the private mails to Nels.By staying out of it the moderators keep themselves out of any possibility of being perceived as taking sides.As long as it's not abused (like reporting threads) I don't see any problem. What I read into Brian's original post was that moderators could look at PM's....Anyway, on we go....JBD

Jim Duncan
Midwest Rail Group

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}>
Brian and all, good job makes sense to me.

JEFF

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Afraid I am going to have to agree with Mr. Duncan on the three strike rule and the right to an appeal. I think this is necessary for the reasons that he gave. No one is perfect and there could be times when a moderator could just use this tool to get rid of someone they don't like.I also agree that what goes on in PM's remain there and remain private unless of course brought up to a moderator that someone is abusing another by using the PM route. Otherwise I think the rules are fair and needed and justified. Now, of course comes the problem of enforcing them and not being prejudiced against some posters while letting others slide. That has been the problem in the past. Let's hope that doesn't continue to happen in the future. As long as that happens this forum will never be cleaned up. It is important for someone to oversee this and ensure it does not happen anymore.Nice work Brian, I hope it works....but it hasn't seemed to in the past. And that doesn't mean getting overly tough either as that just draws ire from some and makes for bad business. There are other ways to quell a potential flame war. I particularly like the idea of PM'ing the offenders rather than making it public. I have been after this rule for a long time now. Good rule.Good luck anyway, Brian. You will no doubt need it.JL

"He was found in the wreck with his hand on the throttle and scalded to death by the steam"

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Agree, and appreciate the time and effort.

Jim

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