This Is Not Good At All

For those who think running long hood forward isnt any good. A tragic incident indeed.
http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16953

The best railroad there ever was

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RE: This Is Not Good At All, bradhig, Jun-28-04, 10:22 PM, (1) RE: This Is Not Good At All, Boilerbuster, Jun-29-04, 01:52 AM, (4) RE: This Is Not Good At All, sd70mac666, Jul-01-04, 00:51 AM, (16) RE: This Is Not Good At All, Boilerbuster, Jul-02-04, 12:56 PM, (20) RE: This Is Not Good At All, shoskins, Jul-03-04, 07:20 AM, (21) RE: This Is Not Good At All, shadowr434, Jul-03-04, 06:20 PM, (22) RE: This Is Not Good At All, Cell0518, Jun-28-04, 10:24 PM, (2) RE: This Is Not Good At All, NS5237, Jun-28-04, 11:16 PM, (3) RE: This Is Not Good At All, LAHDPOP, Jun-29-04, 02:03 AM, (5) RE: This Is Not Good At All, mjs2101, Jun-29-04, 02:25 AM, (6) RE: This Is Not Good At All, ssw_96, Jun-29-04, 06:15 AM, (7) RE: This Is Not Good At All, Claude350, Jun-29-04, 08:58 AM, (8) RE: This Is Not Good At All, BNSF4723, Jun-29-04, 12:15 PM, (9) RE: This Is Not Good At All, Richard, Jun-29-04, 11:50 PM, (12) RE: This Is Not Good At All, Brad 110, Jun-30-04, 05:44 PM, (15) RE: This Is Not Good At All, Richard, Jul-02-04, 09:30 AM, (19) RE: This Is Not Good At All, mjs2101, Jun-29-04, 01:19 PM, (10) RE: This Is Not Good At All, sou2601, Jun-30-04, 03:46 PM, (14) RE: This Is Not Good At All, rpicardi1, Jun-29-04, 08:46 PM, (11) RE: This Is Not Good At All, ace6879, Jun-30-04, 10:43 AM, (13) RE: This Is Not Good At All, ssw_96, Jul-01-04, 06:19 AM, (17) RE: This Is Not Good At All, erniep, Jul-01-04, 06:35 AM, (18) RE: This Is Not Good At All, shadowr434, Jul-03-04, 06:39 PM, (23)

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Federal law says trucks must stop at railroad crossings.

Riding on Supertrain.

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>Federal law says trucks must stop at railroad crossings. Only if the truck is carring Hasmat materials. In the case of this driver he did stop but didnt yeild to the train. Shame really.
I am currently a Class A CDL holder with Hasmat Endorcement.
Rules are as follows.
1. When hauling Hasmat you must stop at all rail crossings within 15 to 50 feet of the nearest rail.
2. When you proceed across the tracks do not shift gears.However I think that it is a good policy that one should stop reguardless if your hauling hasmat or not.
Don Pottorff

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Well I hold a CDL with a passenger, Air brake and School Bus Endorsement and I'm not playing chicken with a train here in Vermont. If I can note that it's moving I will not move the bus I will shift it to neutral and apply the parking brake. The engineer or conductor will give em a signal though if I wait long enough. Usually it's the hand signal or the dimming of the lights. Dr. SatanI'm otherwise known as the SatanTrain

High on the roof,
Thin the blood,
Another one on the waves tonight,
Comin' in, you're home
Orange Crush: R.E.M.

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Yes I forgot about the Passenger Endorcement. that also requires a stop at all crossings. When I dont see a train and where I live you can see them for miles. I get across the tracks as fast as I can. But I never race a train. I forgot that you said that you drive a school bus. That by far is the most important cargo there is. Even though I have a hasmat endorcement I dont haul hasmat. To get a job with any of the major trucking companys the Hasmat endorcement is a must.
My father used to haul Amonium Nitrate. If you dont know what that is all I have to say is that it was what was used in the Oklahoma City bombing. He used to haul about 60,000 lbs of it. In a semi that is one of the most dangrous loads you can haul... Because the other material that makes it a bomb is Diesel fuel. You dont want to get in a wreck with a train with that kind of load. A wreck with that material would make the Oklahoma city bomb look like a fire cracker compared to what that kind of detonation would look like.
Amonium Nitrate is hauled in a grain hopper as it is a granual form. Since a Semi is fueled by diesel the danger is apperant.
Don Pottorff

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>Federal law says trucks must stop at railroad crossings. Let's clarify that....Trucks that carry HAZARDOUS MATERIALS must stop, not just trucks in general.Buses must also stop if they have anyone on board in addition to the driver.I drive a transit bus...and if we were IN SERVICE, we must stop regardless of whether we have passengers or not. If we are deadheading (NOT in service) we are okay to keep rolling.The specifics of stopping/gear shifting/etc. have all been correctly spelled out by other professional drivers in this thread.

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>>Federal law says trucks must stop at railroad crossings.
>
>Let's clarify that....
>
>Trucks that carry HAZARDOUS MATERIALS must stop, not just
>trucks in general.
>
>Buses must also stop if they have anyone on board in
>addition to the driver.
>
>I drive a transit bus...and if we were IN SERVICE, we must
>stop regardless of whether we have passengers or not. If we
>are deadheading (NOT in service) we are okay to keep
>rolling.
>
>The specifics of stopping/gear shifting/etc. have all been
>correctly spelled out by other professional drivers in this
>thread.
To even clarify more,a truck with a placard or reportable amount of hazardous materials must stop. Any amount under 1001 pounds doesn't need placards.However a tanker is always placarded and always needs to stop.I drove gasoline tanker for many yrs. Now am in the freight business, so still run haz mat a few times a week.

Frank Roberts
P&D Tractor trailer Driver for R&L Carriers
"Sometimes I dream about being carried off by a big giant squirrel. Does that make me a nut?"

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Exactly right chad. I had always heard that was a SAFETY feature. It keeps you a little farther away from the accident. Hope they (crew) has a speedy recovery.
PLEASE Visit->

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Thanks for the link Chad, prey that the crew has a quick recovery.

John - SC MP95

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According to WWL TV in New Orleans, the badly injured crew members did not survive.

Bret

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Definitely a bad situation. I remember a similar incident in Greensboro, NC along "gasoline alley" (I think that is the nickname) many years ago. A Southern freight hit a tanker and you could see the smoke for more than 10 miles away! Managed to see the burned diesels a few days later and the leading unit was seriously warped from the heat. If I remember correctly, the crew survived.Makes you wonder why anyone, especially a truck driver hauling dangerous material would try to "beat" a train.Mykel

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That was pretty stupid on the truck drivers part. Trying to get that extra minute isnt worth it sometimes. Unfortunately his action has caused several families to be in greif at this time. But it kinda was a good thing that it was running long hood forward.

The best railroad there ever was

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Mykel the conductor died in that incident.He found outside the second unit on the ground.Alot of changes have been made at those crossings.If I'm not mistaken that incident happened on the H-Line which Runs Between Greensboro and Goldsboro NC with major stops in Durham and Raleigh.Claude Debnam NS Piedmont Division Raleigh East

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It gets me thinking, why the hell do you pull a stunt like that when you are carrying such explosive material? I can partially understand someone getting to work in the morning, peeling off through the crossing cause they are late but pulling a tanker full of gasoline and taking off infront of a speeding, multi ton steel hammer? NO. I'm glad the truck driver was killed, no sympathy from me.Poor train crew and their families. I wish I could help.

Cedarbrae RR - A fictional railroad in rural lands. Coming soon.

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I'm not siding with the truck driver on the accident, as it was a stupid mistake, but here is a little insight into the trucking business. The true problem is, as long as truck drivers continue to be paid mileage or tonnage, they will continue to take chances. You ask why? Simple, the more miles you run, the more money you make. There is no over time pay when you drive a truck, everything is based on mileage or tonnage. Only a few carriers pay hourly, so most driver are stuck trying to make ends meet, by driving a minimum of 2500 miles per week. And don't forget all the time you spend loading and unloading that you do not get paid for! So lets look at it this way, If I need to earn $40,000 and my company pays me .30 cents per mile. I must drive 2,500 miles per week. If I would like to spend two days at home with my family, I need to drive 500 miles per day. What happens when prices go up, you need to drive more miles, to bring home the extra money. What is really sad, in the last twenty years, the average pay per mile has only increased by 15 cents for non-union carriers. When I hear the government say they are concerned about highway safety, I must disagree. If the government was truly concerned about highway safety, all class 8 vehicles would be equipped with engine brakes, and all truck drivers would be paid by the hour, for every hour spend on line 3 and line 4 of their log books. Until that day comes, expect more of these types of accidents.
For the train crew and there families, they will be in my prayers. The truck driver is already gone, but his family will be in my prayers as well.
Take care,
Rich S.

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No sale here. Even allowing for all you say, if one feels one has to not only break the law but to risk the lives of others to be able to spend two days a week at home one should probably be looking for another line of work. Rather then another set of govt mandates, when enough truckers decide to find a better living the trucking companies will change their policies.Brad Meyer

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"when enough truckers decide to find a better living the trucking companies will change their policies"Brad,
That is a nice thought, but will probably happen on the same day that people stop selling illegal drugs on street corners If it were not for government mandates, the railroads would not have switched to the knuckle coupler and automatic air brakes. When men were loosing their hands because of link and pin couplers, the railroads were not having any problems replacing the injured people. We all seem to have this built in response that says "it won't happen to me, it will happen to someone else".
Just my 28 cents / mile thoughts Take care,
Rich S.

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Sorry to hear the conductor didn't make it. I guess that is really just about the worse situation for a train crew. All you can really do is pray the driver hears you and gets out of the way in time, or that the tanker is empty.This was about a mile from PTI airport. Not sure if this is part of the H-Line. (Does the H-Line end at Pomona yard or extend to Winston-Salem?) And fortunately as you said, there have been significant improvements along that stretch as well as a few tank farms closing down. All we can do is hope that something like this doesn't happen again, any where!Mykel

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That incident happened on the K-Line (Greensboro to Winston Salem). The engineer and conductor both died from the accident. The brakeman survivded due to being in a trailing unit. Also, they hit a truck loaded with aviation fuel. It was heading to the Piedmont Triad International Airport just outside Greensboro. After the acident, all of the crossing save one were removed to the fueling facilities. I worked awhile with the brakeman now conductor that survivded. He still didn't like going thru that area for good reasons.Jonathan

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Most unfortune for the crew on this wreak caused by someone in a hurry.Few years back, one of the club members that is an engineer, was running long hood foward from Bay City to Saginaw with a consist of mixed freight. He t-boned a fully loaded, 100 tons, double bottom, two trailers, 21 axle, gravel truck. The collision totaled the lead engine and one of the trailers. (The truck tried to beat the train.)Fortunely, no one was hurt. (Been a different story if the engine was running short hood forward.) The driver of the truck had his CVL revoked and the trucking company was billed for a new engine plus the cost of cleanup and repairing several hundred feet of ripped up rails.SRV Ron

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GUys, This kind of BS with stupid truckers happens on a DAILY basis. Sometimes more than once in a railroaders tour of duty. I seen it many times, being gas or propane, and just prayed. Even as a railfan, I have been on a cab ride or two and have had this happen there as well. All you can do is TRY to avoid the flames by hitting the deck.......and praying......A: that you don't burn up...and B: that you stay on the rails......the "don't let anyone get hurt" comes later. Long hood forward will help immensly, but in the end it is a no-win situation....someone is going to die, or wish they were dead. All to get that extra few min. As long as there are grade crossings, there will be stupid people. Old saying: When you idiot-proof something, the world builds you a better idiot!Later!

Kelley D. Ellison
CSX A-Line Chief Lighting Engineer
NALW Lighting Engineer

Dekosoft Lighting Engineer
GM&O SIMULATIONS Chief Lighting Engineer

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Try and tell this to the utterly stupid and blind-to-the-fact people at www.angelsontrack.org

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"As long as there are grade crossings, there will be stupid people. Old saying: When you idiot-proof something, the world builds you a better idiot!" Good one, Kelley. There was one in Alberta a few years ago where a train hit a semi carrying fuel oil at a crossing. The resulting fire killed both the truck driver as well as the 3 man train crew. Totally needless. That crossing has a clear view of the track of more than a mile in both directions. Ironic thing is the trucking company involved was under contract to supply the railway with it's diesel fuel. While it can be appreciated how much pressure is on the truck drivers to put as many miles on as possible, trying to save 60-90 seconds at a rail crossing is stupid, considering that if you don't make it you will likely pay with your life. cheers,
Ernie

Don't take life too seriously, just remember what not to do next time around.

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Also not a good excuse considering most gas drivers are payed hourly and very well. No,this gentleman was just stupid as are some others driving trucks and others driving cars and still other idiots put in charge of driving a train. There are many morons out there doing many jobs they shouldn't.Hell guys still try every once in a while to fly an airliner full of people while drunk. Lets not throw all truckers under the tires because of a few bad ones. Thanks.

Frank Roberts
P&D Tractor trailer Driver for R&L Carriers
"Sometimes I dream about being carried off by a big giant squirrel. Does that make me a nut?"

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