The Fighting Needs to Stop… Now

LAST EDITED ON Jun-27-04 AT 04:17 PM (EST) by Nels_Anderson (admin)

This is certainly a twist from last years crap when we had all the kids seemingly killing the forum ever so slowly. The mods stepped in and tried to do what we can.. it worked overtime.Now, a different side of the realm... the adults have seemingly now turned into 4 year olds crying about models and saying they aren't a business, yet they sale payware.For those wondering what happened to Chris and Ryan's posts, I deleted them, there is no need for it, because it isn't going to do anything at all. There are 4 people on this forum that need to seriously be dealt with, however, the chief doesn't want to do anything about.He has his reasons, I don't know if he has seen the real reasons why they should be permanently banished from the site because the posts get so bad that we (mods) end up deleting the post.So, basically, what I want to know is; Why run a forum when the chief won't even banish somebody that is causing all of the problems. You get rid of the problem childs, the forum will be fine. Leave them here, and you get what you have now.At this point, there is no reason to even mod the forums when upper level can't work together on a situation with the mods. My 2 dollars of change worth..

Brian E. Bundridge
http://Evergreentracks.tk

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The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now [View All], Macster, 01:00 PM, Jun-25-04, (0) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, yellowdog, Jun-25-04, 01:35 PM, (1) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, CBF, Jun-25-04, 01:43 PM, (2) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, calr, Jun-25-04, 03:18 PM, (3) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, kevarc, Jun-25-04, 03:48 PM, (4) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, sinclair97, Jun-25-04, 05:23 PM, (5) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, SVTS, Jun-25-04, 06:20 PM, (6) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, calr, Jun-25-04, 06:23 PM, (7) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, Poltergeist, Jun-25-04, 10:54 PM, (17) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, dti407, Jun-25-04, 06:23 PM, (8) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, NewEnglandRailFan, Jun-25-04, 06:47 PM, (9) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, dti407, Jun-26-04, 08:34 PM, (67) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... 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Now, jfroth1, Jun-26-04, 07:36 PM, (56) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, Baldwinbob, Jun-26-04, 08:02 PM, (63) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, DJShepley, Jun-26-04, 09:01 PM, (71) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, jfroth1, Jun-26-04, 09:25 PM, (75) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, steamloco, Jun-26-04, 09:34 PM, (77) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, OTTODAD, Jun-25-04, 08:49 PM, (12) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, CP3084, Jun-25-04, 09:19 PM, (13) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, CWorth, Jun-25-04, 10:32 PM, (16) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, kevarc, Jun-25-04, 11:07 PM, (18) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, Night_Train, Jun-26-04, 01:42 AM, (21) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, Macster, Jun-26-04, 01:59 AM, (22) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, Night_Train, Jun-26-04, 02:04 AM, (23) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, sinclair97, Jun-26-04, 07:17 AM, (24) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, CRSD40, Jun-26-04, 07:54 AM, (25) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, kevarc, Jun-26-04, 09:46 AM, (26) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, Nels_Anderson, Jun-26-04, 09:49 AM, (27) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, BNSF4723, Jun-26-04, 10:17 AM, (28) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, kevarc, Jun-26-04, 10:33 AM, (29) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, Nels_Anderson, Jun-26-04, 11:07 AM, (32) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, The Real Leo, Jun-26-04, 12:08 PM, (34) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, Hack, Jun-26-04, 01:13 PM, (37) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, OTTODAD, Jun-26-04, 03:28 PM, (42) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, BN_9402, Jun-26-04, 07:47 PM, (57) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Agree, Nels:, jfroth1, Jun-26-04, 06:47 PM, (46) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Agree, Nels:, OTTODAD, Jun-26-04, 07:10 PM, (49) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Agree, Nels:, sinclair97, Jun-26-04, 07:22 PM, (51) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Agree, Nels:, jfroth1, Jun-26-04, 07:54 PM, (59) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Agree, Nels:, jfroth1, Jun-26-04, 07:30 PM, (55) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, yellowdog, Jun-26-04, 12:06 PM, (33) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, Hack, Jun-26-04, 01:15 PM, (38) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, kmanc21, Jun-26-04, 10:54 AM, (31) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, mailer_diablo, Jun-26-04, 01:09 PM, (36) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, NW 1218, Jun-26-04, 01:26 PM, (39) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, cnw8717, Jun-26-04, 01:48 PM, (41) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, adamb, Jun-26-04, 07:56 PM, (60) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, moose49, Jun-26-04, 08:01 PM, (62) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, sniper297, Jun-26-04, 09:09 PM, (72) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, ATF1224, Jun-26-04, 08:49 PM, (68) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, dti407, Jun-26-04, 08:53 PM, (70) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, Matt Vince, Jun-26-04, 09:23 PM, (74) RE: The Fighting Needs to Stop.... Now, ssw, Jun-26-04, 09:40 PM, (78)

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Careful, Brian--you might have to lock your own thread or ban yourself if you keep making comments like that! Seriously, though, I think you bring up some valid points. It's a shame nobody seems to be able to do anything about it. I've already commented about "the chief" elsewhere, so I'll not rehash that in this thread.

Clayton

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Not taking a stand on tough issues is a cop-out, no matter what the circumstance. Someone is going to have to take on the responsibility and make tough decisions, or we may very well lose this forum!How come we have so many members, but so few of them post? In my opinion it is because of the attitue of some the frequent posters.Keep up the good work as a moderator as best you can.My 2 pesoes worth.Cheers; Chuck F.

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Brian, I know I've challenged you in the past, but I'm with you 100% this time. Although I haven't been following the posts and threads referenced, I know what you are dealing with.What is truly amazing is that there are are forums where this does not happen. I am a member of a digital photography forum. This forum has both young people and adults present. The youngest people that I know of are in their high teens. The thing is that there is no fighting or arguing whatsoever! Everyone in the forums is working toward the same goal--better photographs. There are discussion forums on a wide variety of subjects including a group of forums to post and critique your photos. The only negative posts I have seen are constructive criticism of someone's photograph or to speak badly about a particular product that is nothing but trouble.The mood on the forums is always upbeat. Now I know that the moderators keep a tight fist on things. It is a family oriented forum and they enforce that concept. The "chief" over there takes a direct interest in everything that goes on and moderates just as much as the moderators do.My point is, if it can be done there, why not here? The topics are different but the management problems are the same. It works over there but not here. Why? Think about it.If anyone wants to know the forum I am talking about, PM me.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
(My email is in my profile)Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 2-- Started)

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I am a member amany forums, MSTS ones and others, and this is by far the worse run one. Nothing against the mods, but they do not get the support from the boss like they need. It has been this way since day 1, and people know that and run amok. I am as guilty as anyone else.I see this very seldom on other forums. One reason, even though one may get criticism, it is handled a lot by the person receiving it. Instead of ripping into the person, it is generally a thanks, I try it that way next time or I tried to to it that way and it didn't work for me. And if it is handled the way it is here, that person is warned. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.Another thing is that if you ask about something and a respondee tells you it will not work the way you are trying, you can take it to the bank that the responee has BEEN THERE, DONE THAT, and IT DIDN'T WORK. Not much fighting about it. Here, they want to argue with ya. And that gets tiring after a while.Another thing, and this is a good idea - when you get your confirming email, you are told straight out what will not be tolerated.BTW, people have tried to carry arguements with me to other forums. My policy is what happens here, stays here. Don't bring to my forum, it is history if you do.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
It's fun being CRAZY!!!!!
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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Kevarc!!! After putting a tutorial into your forum as a good-will gesture I found that a few days ago I was publicly attacked by you for putting some "funnies" into the screenshot forum. This attack took the form of an offensive verbal abuse which has since been deleted by Nels. this attack by you was uncalled for as the owner of the pics concerned was "flattered" that I had used his pics for my funnies.I have not received an apology for this verbal abuse attack, yet I notice that you demand of it others.You have openly declared that you hate this forum and most of its members. you have arrogantly bragged that you have been threatened with suspension. You have for so long now actively endorsed your offensive tag: "Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war by the disruption and locked posts you have created that is time now to do something about this once and for all.I'm about to make a big sacrifice as I have made a lot of friends on the forum, and I also like to think that I have put back into train simming what I have taken out by contributing both to the forums and the download library.Ok here is the deal I am going to put my money where my mouth is: I am prepared to voluntarily leave this forum if Kevarc is also asked to leave. If this obligation is met then I think people can get back to train simming again in reasonable peaceOne might ask why my leaving is going to make any difference? Simple! If I remain I will dedicate all my energies in countering this troublemaker's offensive posts which sufficates other people's goodwill.Finally, am I allowed to say Scream anarchy let loose the harbingers of strife.Mike

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Sinclair, first of all, this is not a Kevarc bashing thread. I am sure however you will have no trouble finding one though if you search.As is typical with you and me, some days I would love nothing more than to watch you leave this froum, hell, I would pave the way for it. But other days you actually say stuff that makes since, today being of them I guess.Kevin will never change. He is what he is. He thinks he is the greatest asset to the train sim world, when actually, all he is is the biggest ass to the train sim world. I don't see the point behind you offering to leave if he does. You have contributed to the sim in many ways, and even though you are equally a pain in the rump sometimes, I don't think this is the way to convey your message. I have been here for 3 years now, and one thing I have learned is to ignore the few losers that think the world spins around their clouded minds. Perhaps you too can find a way to do the same. Not everyone will like you. Not everyone likes me. So be it. Life goes on. Doughnuts must still be made. Trains must still run the animated rails.Chris Bogley
Syracuse New York
www.msnusers.com/AshleyPhotography
www.msnusers.com/cnytrainsWholesale Route Sales / Production, Krispy Kreme, Syracuse NYAmtrak "American Eagle" Activity Pack, Summer 2004

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How about a duel? Nukes at 20 paces. It would solve both problems at the same time.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, OR
(My email is in my profile)Columbia Gorge Route (Phase 2-- Started)

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>How about a duel? Nukes at 20 paces. It would solve both
>problems at the same time.
>Works for me.

Sean Summer AKA Poltergeist
"The voices, the voices, I hear them, they're with me, so I follow I follow..." ~Eminem's "Guilty Conscious"

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-25-04 AT 06:26 PM (EST)

>Kevin will never change. He is what he is. He thinks he is
>the greatest asset to the train sim world, when actually,
>all he is is the biggest ass to the train sim world. I don't
>see the point behind you offering to leave if he does. You
>have contributed to the sim in many ways, and even though
>you are equally a pain in the rump sometimes, I don't think
>this is the way to convey your message. I have been here for
>3 years now, and one thing I have learned is to ignore the
>few losers that think the world spins around their clouded
>minds. Why can we not keep this thread FLAME-FREE? How hard is that to do?Greg Zoll

Greg's MSTS Forum @ http://www.msts.bb2.org

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>Why can we not keep this thread FLAME-FREE?
>How hard is that to do? Here Here!!!!! This is an anti flame thread and guess what... People are Flaming!Brian, I'm glad you stepped up here. There have been enough locked theads here in the past week to fill up a Boxcar!I don't know about you guys, but I have been trying to avoid them. The Screen Shot forum has been riddled with flames too. It almost gets boringWell anyway, lets keep simming and stop arguing-Dave-Dave

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-04 AT 08:38 PM (EST)

>Why can we not keep this thread FLAME-FREE?
>How hard is that to do?
This is pathetic.uploading new sig pic.Greg Zoll

Greg's MSTS Forum @ http://www.msts.bb2.org

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You can't Greg because there are too many idiots here who know they can say whatever they want and get away with it. And usually do. Why? Because the boss just doesn't care.
JL

"He was found in the wreck with his hand on the throttle and scalded to death by the steam"

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This is going well. Lighten up kids, it's only a hobby.Twinkies 1 Milwaukee 0 middle of the 3rd

--------------------------
Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-25-04 AT 08:33 PM (EST)

I said some words that I should not have said here when I first joined, but I have matured, but as for the others, I'd Pm them and tell them to grow up and if they don't........Kick I'm off of here, yea its a good hobby but people like to raise hell over little stuff

JBT #55
River District MP. 242
Arkansas Railfannin

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>Twinkies 1 Milwaukee 0 middle of the 3rd Yanks & Mets got rained out (go Yanks) -Dave-Dave

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"Kevin will never change. He is what he is. He thinks he is the greatest asset to the train sim world, when actually, all he is is the biggest ass to the train sim world." - No that would be Paul Fowler.And Sinclair ain't done spit.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
It's fun being CRAZY!!!!!
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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Chris stated:>Sinclair, first of all, this is not a Kevarc bashing thread.And yet he writes:>He thinks he is the greatest asset to the train sim world, when
>actually, all he is is the biggest ass to the train sim world.So then why did you bash him?Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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Actually Chris, you have it all ass backwards as usual. You are probably the biggest ass here. Strange that Kevin never has this problem in other forums only this one. Why? Very simple. He doesn't have to deal with idiots like you there and everyone in the other forums knows how helpful he is and knowlegeable in the game he is and that just tears most of you Kevin haters right up doesn't it? You sir will never have one tenth of the knowledge that he possesses. So get off your high horse and quit lying and go make your donuts......where you belong!Exactly why I normally ignore you sir! I have been here just as long as you and you haven't changed in all that time. No, not everyone likes you and for a reason. You are a big mouth who rarely knows what he is talking about. Oh, and just for the record. You are absolutely correct Brian, this was a nice place at one time but you know what, since the boss could give a rats behind about what is going on here, this place has turned into the place that it now has become. Many of us have warned about it and even wrote the man, but you know the response we get. Oh, I don't want to upset anyone, and I don't have time for this. Yeah, well it is obvious. In one weeks time he could turn this place around if he even cared one iota. But he doesn't. So this place will continue to turn to crap!I tried to help here some time ago but it didn't work because I got jumped on for helping people. Totally ridiculous. They seem to come out of the slime here and then slip back in because they have nothing else to contribute.
Brian you are wasting your time here because it isn't worth saving at this point. JLJL

"He was found in the wreck with his hand on the throttle and scalded to death by the steam"

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I can remember a time when Kev was one of the nicest people on this forum...he helped me immensely...but then the trolls started screaming bloody murder about TA's busines decisions and attacking the people that tried to defend TA...I flamed with the best of them...I count some of the members of TA as close friends. So now then....we are products of our environment. 1972

http://www.trainsimstuff.com"I am the game and you don't want to play me." Lemmy Kilmister--Motorhead

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I'll tell you the same thing I told Paul - When hell freezes over. Whether Marc didn't mind or not is irrelevent to me, I didn't like them. You had done stupid pics like that before and not many found them funny, only stupid. When I make a comment, it is because the person made a completely stupid post. And I will continue to say what is on my mind. If I get booted here, big whoop. I see very little coming from you or others here that interests me. A lot of the real work is being done in other forums, that do accomplish things. When it comes down to it, you and bogley are about as usefull as udders on a bull.I put your tutorial up and pinned it. But after the pics, I removed it. Don't go away mad - just go away if you feel that way.Anarchy - the furture form of government. No rules, just fun!Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
It's fun being CRAZY!!!!!
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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OK Sinclair you got your wish...Kev is now gone...please leave yourself. 1972

http://www.trainsimstuff.com"I am the game and you don't want to play me." Lemmy Kilmister--Motorhead

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Nah, Sinclair isn't honorable enough to actually live up to it and leave. Or.........?Go ahead, Sinclair, prove me wrong. Leave.

Bret

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Hi Bret,I received no acknowledgment let alone official endorsement to my offer; moreover, Kevarc was banished by his own "couldn't care less" attitude towards Nels' serious posting; therefore, in this particular instance I was not specifically instrumental in this banishment.However, if Nels requires me to leave, then I shall, but as yet have not been told to do so. Though I have to say that I am loath to do anything you ask of me for the simple reason you yourself gave me verbal abuse about two weeks ago, which I can't repeat as it is too vulgar and offensive.I sincerely hope that your foul-mouthing of other people on this forum is going to stop; afterall, the civilised amongst us would not go into your clubhouse and foul mouth there, so why should we put up with it here?

Mike

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These were your words..."Ok here is the deal I am going to put my money where my mouth is: I am prepared to voluntarily leave this forum if Kevarc is also asked to leave. If this obligation is met then I think people can get back to train simming again in reasonable peace"I have no quarrel with you and do not know you, but Kevin was asked to leave and you as well did not specify how he was asked to leave. Henceforth, my apologies, but you should abide by your own proclamation and not rationalize the predictament and be honorable to your word.Anything less and your word is as good as a liar.Rich Garber

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Totally agree, Rich.John Roth
<--- D&H Lives!

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Rich,I understand you have something of a reputation and some kudos: Yes?I therefore profoundly regret to say that you have made yourself look quite silly my deliberately distorting the facts.Fact 1. Yes, I said I would voluntarily leave this forum if Kevarc was ASKED to leave.Fact 2. KEVARC WAS NOT ASKED TO LEAVE: HE DID NOT ASK TO LEAVE: HE WAS BANISHED BY NELS.Now I would like an apology from you for A stating that Kevarc was asked to leave: he was banished. And B. for tacitly implying that I am a liar.I am one of the most honourable people aroundI regret to say that I must now ask for an apology, because you got your FACTS wrong.if I do not have an apology from you I will seriously consider legal action for slander: you have implied that I have been less than honest, where in fact I have been honest all the time. this is disgraceful that you should be so careless in your accusations of my being a liar.If Kevarc had been asked to leave and he had agreed then I would have kept my side of the bargain. This has not been the case. Nels directly banished him for his specific attitude towards Nels' post.
Mike

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sinclair97,Grow Up.John Roth
<--- D&H Lives!

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Typical. I knew it! I knew you'd pull some crap like this, Sinclair.And asking Rich for an APOLOGY? Please! Give me the smallest of breaks. Here, how's this, Sinclair:
Instead of "tacitly implying" you're a liar, I'll just say it: "You're a liar." Don't quibble about "asked" vs "banished." He's gone. Now you go.

Bret

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Sounds like you suffer from acute meglomaia!

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Better to look silly rather than a hypocrite and a liar.Fact 1. Yes, I said I would voluntarily leave this forum if Kevarc was ASKED to leave. Fact 2. KEVARC WAS NOT ASKED TO LEAVE: HE DID NOT ASK TO LEAVE: HE WAS BANISHED BY NELS.This saran wrap of an excuse leaves you just as transparent. If you say as you do that Kevin was supposed to have been asked to leave, then from whom did you expect Kevin to be asked to leave? And further, to whom did you think that Kevin would be asked to leave and then have the authority that Kevin would heed the request?Either you are a victim of your own 'honorable intention' as this so plainly looks or you created a false pretense in which you knew the said case could never be honored.I would so hate to think that you are using a technicality to betray your own honorable intentions.So which is it?Rich Garber

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Okay one more time: I said I would leave voluntarily if Kevarc was asked to leave.My assumption was just that: I would leave if Kevarc on being asked by Nels to leave agreed to leave. HE DID NOT AGREE: He was booted out. In other words, I did NOT have the opportunity to exercise my promise i.e. leaving the forum after Kevarc consented to leaving the forum also: No such event took place.My lawyer will explain it so much better when you get the papers.I am truly sorry to have "crossed" swords with you Rich, but I have a right to be spoken to without abuse from Kevarc--which is what all this is about.Mike.

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You don't have to explain again, we get it. You're a liar.

Bret

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>My lawyer will explain it so much better when you get the
>papers.Your Lawyer. I didnt know you could sue for being a crybaby who lies about leaving.

Brock Hansen or cnw8717.
Painter of Trainsim stuff.

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And just why did you expect Nels to ask Kevin to leave? On what incidental note of the past have you ever seen or heard of Nels asking someone to leave? And if Nels asked Kevin to leave, then is it your supposition that Kevin would? Asking is different than demanding. So explain the logic in a proposal you made that has such a narrow, if even that, result.What it looks like to me is that you cowardly (another slanderous remark) are renigging on your offer and you obviously had no intention of keeping the offer; probably just as shocked that Nels banned Kevin from the forums too. Like I said, your a victim of your own honorable intentions, and man does it look like you are trying to weasel out of it.For shame.But then this is just more of this hyperbole isn't it?Rich G

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Mike, we all take a swipe at and idea or thought product or service that we don't like from time to time. The idea that Kevarc, Rich Garber, or you are hurting anything with your swipes at each other or any one else is ridiculous. Your engaging in symantics now that Kevarc is gone is ludicrous and even though your swipes are taken in a politicaly correct manner they are swipes none the less.Why don't we all try to get along and talk about T/S and related products and services offer help instead of swipes when one has a question or a problem.

JEFF

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You are so full of BS Sinclair it is ridiculous. No one expected you to leave anyway, because you are such a liar anyway. We all know what you said and you have backed down and that makes you worse than Kevin ever thought of being. But we all knew that anyway.JL

"He was found in the wreck with his hand on the throttle and scalded to death by the steam"

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-04 AT 07:24 PM (EST)

Rich,Well said Sir...Damn well said!

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Hey Don, from one old curmudgeon to another old curmudgeon,Do you believe the stuff going on with the juveniles here?Good to see your post and hoping you are well!Best,
John Roth
<--- D&H Lives!

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I have the man to stop all this baloney! CITIZENS ARREST, CITIZENS ARREST!!Have a nice day kids.Bob

--------------------------
Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here

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Thank you John for your kind thoughts! No...I find it hard to believe that there are so many selfindulgent little snits!
Are you and yours fit and fiddle. Best Regards!!!!!

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Haha, yes Don - "selfindulgent little snits" - many are. Good one!All is well here; lots of work (defense) so I don't have time to drive as many trains in the sim as before. I really enjoy the D&H stuff, you may recall - they were only a 4 hour drive from 'home'. When I come here I mostly limit myself to the Screenshot forum, but even that has gotten tedious, what with the GMO-loser vs anyone who takes his creations to task fiasco. So I check the other forums and this is the garbage posted. Kids, and adults with kid mentality.The "My lawyer will explain it so much better when you get the papers." in post #64 crap was a laugher. I went to school in the '60's with smarter guys that flunked 6th grade gym...Oh for the simpler days...!Stay well, sir.Very best, John Roth
<--- D&H Lives!

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And I will help the idiot out the door too. I am with Kevin here. Doesn't matter whether Marc was upset about the pictures or not. That is something you just don't do to someone else's piece of work. I don't care if the work was good or not. You don't put trash on someone else's work and think it is funny. Because it is not. It just shows your own immaturity!
I am with MKT here, leave. Kevin is leaving so please leave, and take donut man with you!JL

"He was found in the wreck with his hand on the throttle and scalded to death by the steam"

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I have been a member of many clubs in my time, had numerous jobs and they all had the same in common.They have rules about what is expected. Break them once, you get a verbal warning. Break them again you get a written one. Once more and you are out !Offending members in these Fora need to be dealt with the same way, 3 strikes and you are out !O t t o

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Mainly the reason for the most part of my overall silence. There was a time when I was upbeat, posting alot. It ended up stopping. Mainly because it was when things got out of hand and crap started flying the first time.For the most part, it has kept me away from the forums alot. I just come in from time to time, look around, shake my head and leave again.
I run 2 forums, I dont hear the end of it if I dont resolve problems.I wish it could be the same way here. Oh well. Back to my hole in the ground.JP

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This is part of the reason I am trying to start up my own forum.To give people a chance to post somewhere where the bashing and flaming will not be tolerated and ones caught doing this are given 2 warnings and the 3rd is a temporary ban from the forum or permanent ban depending on the circumstances.Only thing I need is members and moderators who are willing to do what is nessacary to keep order.I like this place but am also getting tired of the flaming and bashing in almost every topic.I try not to get involved in those tyoes but if i do I try to keep more or less on neutral ground..exception being the latest incidents.

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We have that - at www.3dtrains.com. This crap is not tolerated. Period.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
It's fun being CRAZY!!!!!
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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>This is certainly a twist from last years crap when we had
>all the kids seemingly killing the forum ever so slowly. The
>mods stepped in and tried to do what we can.. it worked
>overtime.
>
>Now, a different side of the realm... the adults have
>seemingly now turned into 4 year olds crying about models
>and saying they aren't a business, yet they sale payware.
>
>For those wondering what happened to Chris and Ryan's posts,
>I deleted them, there is no need for it, because it isn't
>going to do anything at all. There are 4 people on this
>forum that need to seriously be dealt with, however, the
>chief doesn't want to do anything about.
>
>He has his reasons, I don't know if he has seen the real
>reasons why they should be permanently banished from the
>site because the posts get so bad that we (mods) end up
>deleting the post.
>
>So, basically, what I want to know is; Why run a forum when
>the chief won't even banish somebody that is causing all of
>the problems. You get rid of the problem childs, the forum
>will be fine. Leave them here, and you get what you have
>now.
>
>At this point, there is no reason to even mod the forums
>when upper level can't work together on a situation with the
>mods.
>
>My 2 dollars of change worth.. MSTS IS BORING, really! after few hours, save and play another day, so all you chiefs and indians, who has the best loco, or best route, who took my skin, who stole my loco, blah blah, who gives a hoot,
msts is a sim/game and just enjoy, pls.some hard core members need to recognise this aspect!
thats why we get flamers , because MSTS, is a boring sim,
long hauls, switching (front coupler bugs ,forget it),
if the sim was exiting , we wouldnt see any flames like this!my 10$ worth
mark

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mmkay.... thxbuhbye

Brian E. Bundridge
http://Evergreentracks.tk

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>mmkay.... thxbuhbye
WTF , gave ya a lock reason eh?keep it real OK!!!!!!!!!you post real , you keep it real moderator!
thanks
mark

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Kevarc!!!A clumsy attempt was made to intimidate me into stopping me do my work by offensive verbal abuse. It has to be said that there is a whole world of difference between comments/criticism and blatant verbal abuse.You use this forum like a public urinal but refuse to have the mess that you deliberately create go over into your own forum. It is your extreme intolerance to others that is causing me to write this.I have grown to love this forum and have the greatest respect for it, so much so that I am prepared to be suspended in trying to keep it free from your malice.In your many postings here I have noticed that you have demanded apologies and forgiveness for those who have dared to confront you. but none is forthcoming from you. All that is asked of us as forum members is to be civil to one another. When civility breaks down and the appropriate action not taken swiftly you get problems like this.Until I am suspended I will, with my usual politeness and civility, confront and respond to any post that has all the hallmarks of your usual sneering condescension, and of course you will respond, or should I say retaliate, in your usual aggressive way. But at least I am attempting to stop the rot. The fighting will always continue if Kevarc continues to be verbally abusive to those who simply wish to continue what they are doing without the fear of being attacked from him.Mike

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Can't you for once take this into PM? I know you and Kev have issues, but that really isn't why this thread was started. Anyways, I think the state of a forum depends more on the people who visit it and post at it at than who is in charge. Usually when a bad thread starts it has time to spread hostility before a mod can get to it (after all we all do have lives outside of our computers, hopefully). The feelings of hostility tend to hang around after a thread is locked/deleted, which affects the state of the forum. And since people don't usually change too much, you'll see the same bull$hit appear again, unless they are banned.-----------------------------

Kyle Norek, Milepost 76 on the NS Buffalo Line
New e-mail address: NS7203@msn.com
MSN Messenger: crsd40@hotmail.com

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You will notice that most of them are not requests for apoligies to me. but others. I expect none, other than from Paul.You did a pretty good job hijacking this threadto suit your needs. The only way to get me to quit calling you and others idiots, is for YOU and THEM to quit being...well, IDIOTS. Until then......Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
It's fun being CRAZY!!!!!
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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I wonder if we had a nice, simple set of rules here if things would work better. All too many of the regulars don't seem to be able to handle the rules we have now. How about this:Rule #1: Be civil to other members of the forum in all your postings.a) If you don't know what "civil" means, do not post.
b) Break the rule once, get a warning.
c) Break the rule twice, get locked out of the forum.Seriously, if we are all mature, civilized adults here ("adult" in nature, not necessarily chronological age) that should be all the rules we need.

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I think that would be a welcome addition to the rules list. Its time to start using the ban button.

Cedarbrae RR - A fictional railroad in rural lands. Coming soon.

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Thank you for my morning chuckle.I have seen the support you give your mods. Does Lawrence Kelly ring a bell? He tried to do the right thing (maybe not the right way) and he got smacked by a few and you did not back him and he left. The whiners got what they wanted.You want to stop the crap, make me a mod. I don't play favorites, most of you know that. I will not tolerate any of the crap that either side of an issue spews out.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
It's fun being CRAZY!!!!!
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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I see my serious post is a joke to you. Kevin, you a moderator? You are the problem, not the solution. But not any more. You're gone.

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Although long overdue you made the right decision.

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>You are the problem, not the solution. But not any more. You're gone.Uh - what happened to "Rule #1?"Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-04 AT 03:48 PM (EST)

Uncivilised people can not expect to be treated in a civilised manner and I am not referring to anybody in particular, but hope that one or two others also get the message !O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-04 AT 08:04 PM (EST)

>Uh - what happened to "Rule #1?" Up in smoke, like most of the threads here anymore.Sadly I have to attach this...Austin

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/40de1d2217fa0311.gif

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I rarely post more than a screenshot (or 5) here of late, but as a charter member I'd like to offer the following:Nels: "I see my serious post is a joke to you. Kevin, you a moderator? You are the problem, not the solution. But not any more. You're gone."Nels, I would like to respectfully disagree with your decision.From your post 27 on this thread,:Rule #1: Be civil to other members of the forum in all your postings.
a) If you don't know what "civil" means, do not post.
b) Break the rule once, get a warning.
c) Break the rule twice, get locked out of the forum.With all due respect, I failed to see you exercise a warning, i.e., your Rule #1 b) in this instance.Qualifier: I am a railfan and have added little more than MSTS screenshots to train-sim.com; however, as a defense contractor employee, this is My Take:You might consider that there are certain individuals that post here who use their keyboard for little more than 'target practice' at whoever disagrees with them, or for 'personal gain'. Having been a member here as long as many, I firmly believe that Kevarc is NOT one of that group. I certainly see many who snipe when it is in vogue (and that feeds their egos, I suppose), but I did not/do not keep a very tedious scorecard. I'd like you to invoke the Rule #1 you outlined in post 27 of this thread via your moderators. Bouncing anyone into the abyss is a difficult decision. However, I'd be more inclined to suggest a "THREE" strikes and you're out - 1. Warning; 2. You're treading on thin ice; 3. Goodbye.
My thanks to you, Nels. You've given many of us the opportunity to share in a common interest, display our sensibilities, and voice our opinions.John Roth
<--- D&H Lives!

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-04 AT 07:22 PM (EST)

Hi John !What you read here is just the tip of the Iceberg of what has been going on for a very long time now and Nels reacted to the "Last Straw which broke the Camel's back" ! I myself was on the receiving end once, being called an "Idiot" via E-Mail !What is required in these Fora is that members treat each other in a civilised manner and with respect, irrespective of age and sex. What matters is not so much what you say but how you say it !I also don't think that anybody should hold Mike Sinclair to his promise to voluntarily leave if Kevin is asked to leave, made in sheer frustration, knowing how he felt at the time ! In any case Kevin was not asked to leave, he got banned !We are losing enough valuable contributors as it is, staying in the background because they just can not put up with all this nonsense !O t t o

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Hi Otto,
I have just replied to Rich Garber (who ought to know better) that my promise WAS not done out of frustration But said in good faith: I repeat: I will leave if Kevarc is asked to leave. Kevarc was not asked to leave, He did not ask to leave: he was banished: booted out.Mike

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Are you a teenager wet behind the ears sinclair, yes or no? I ask because anyone more mature would know better than to hang his hat on his own egotistical and runaround choice of words.I see you are still here on your escape route. Too bad you have become a problem and not a solution.John Roth
<--- D&H Lives!

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Hello Otto,I totally agree with your take on this - CIVILITY rules - , save for the sinclair97 part...He said he would vanish but he has yet to - - his weasel-worded excuse and cop out - IMO his word does not hold credence!Frankly this is too petty and I think I will retire to some cognac and run a few trains...Best,John Roth
<--- D&H Lives!

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I would respectfully add that I believe this should apply to PMs as well. It doesn't quite seem "fair" that a person can post whatever he/she wants (regardless of forum rules) in a PM and get away with it. >I wonder if we had a nice, simple set of rules here if
>things would work better. All too many of the regulars don't
>seem to be able to handle the rules we have now. How about
>this:
>
>Rule #1: Be civil to other members of the forum in all
>your postings.
>
>a) If you don't know what "civil" means, do not post.
>b) Break the rule once, get a warning.
>c) Break the rule twice, get locked out of the forum.
>
>Seriously, if we are all mature, civilized adults here
>("adult" in nature, not necessarily chronological age) that
>should be all the rules we need.

Clayton

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>Rule #1: Be civil to other members of the forum in all
>your postings.I believe that if the mods are given the power to enforce this rule, then it could work quite well. We need to get back to the task at hand: running trains and having fun. Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series SuperPacks

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I couldn't agree more with the post. This forum has a terrible reputation in most of the other communities. The flaming, bashing and other assorted trash has got to be brought under control. I find that we are losing more and more of the very talented folks in this hobby to other communities. Some will say no big loss, but I disagree. To lose just one talented person (and many of those with talent tend to be termpermental - I know as I do a lot of volunteer work with our local theatre group) is a loss that should be prevented if at all possible. I read Nels post later in the thread and think that I agree, we need to treat each other with courtesy and respect. Violate the rule once, shame on you with a warning. Violate the rule a second time, shame on me and YOU ARE GONE. No second chances, no crying about how I was wrong and won't do it again, you are gone for at least 6 months. It is time for the owner to step up and let the mods do their job and give them 100% backing until this problem gets solved.Ken

How did I survive before MSTS

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-04 AT 01:12 PM (EST)

Macster, Kevin & Everyone Else :I have seen both extremes of the BVE community, right at Train-Sim.com community forums. One year ago, I was at the BVE forum facing the same problems. Too much flaming, too little moderation. This was one of the extremes. Shortly under CPR_Malice's suggestion, a group of moderators were voted into power. Currently, I believe you are facing the problems of this extreme right now.However, now the BVE forum is closely monitored, it now suffers the other extreme. Any slightest 'misbehaviour' deemed by the moderator is immediately binned, no questions asked. Post any n00b question, you are out of the forum. If your signature is deemed unsuitable by the mods, all your posts in the forum is deleted? Try to be funny and expect a call from your ISP. Yes, this is the 'Lawrence Kelly' extreme I'm referring to. If you do not believe me, please post an off-topic right at the BVE forum and see what happens. Do you think anyone dares to post there?The moderators also decided that in order to have some real, 'matured' discussion, a secret BVE Workshop forum is set up for only members approved by the moderators. If you are not seen as a matured developer, then the forum isn't even visible to you. Is this elitism? You bet.Please treasure the freedom you all have now, if you don't want to see the other extreme happen. This is a very big warning. The BVE community is dying under the latter, and I do NOT wish to see a deja-vyu happen. It's very sad for me to see a community crumble under opression.Two advices :- No matter how, no question is stooopid.
- Everyone was a newbie.Freedom or opression, equality or elitism? The choice is yours.

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Oh my god.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim

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I think we banned the wrong person here.

Brock Hansen or cnw8717.
Painter of Trainsim stuff.

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>I think we banned the wrong person here. Yes, we did. But it wasn't "we"....

Adam, TKW Reskinner, Australia
Check the new and IMPROVED...
www.trainweb.org/aussiepix
An opinion is only a flame as long as you cant take criticism...

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THE WRONG PERSON I AGREE!!!!!!!

JEFF

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-26-04 AT 09:19 PM (EST)

Brian, I've always liked and respected you, and I think you're a great moderator. You show a maturity level way beyond your years. This is not one of your better moments tho, when you disagree with the chief's decision, dragging the dirty laundry out in public is not the way to deal with it.The rest of you guys, look at post #16; "This is part of the reason I am trying to start up my own forum."I also occasionally get censored or posts deleted, and I don't question the mods that do it, just accept it when it happens. This is not my forum, it's not your forum, this is Nels' forum. Anyone who doesn't like the way Nels runs the forum really should go elsewhere, join a different forum or start your own. Starting your own forum is probably the best, then you can run it the way YOU think it should be run, make up your own rules, and enforce or don't enforce them as you see fit.Train-sim.com is not public property. The balance line between fighting/bickering and free speech vs. total fascist censorship is not decided by congressional committee, it's decided by the guy who OWNS THE FORUM. I stay here because I like the way Nels runs this forum, if I didn't like it I would go to Avsim or wherever.EDIT:Just saw this:http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/23881.htmlKnock yourselves out, guys.

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You banned Kevin.... I strogly disagree with that decision.But my real question is...Why the HELL is Paul still here????

Jake Mensel

The Norfolk Southern Winston-Salem District

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>Why the HELL is Paul still here???? I thought the same thing. This doesn't make sense. WTF?
Greg Zoll

Greg's MSTS Forum @ http://www.msts.bb2.org

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My 2 cents:I ask the question: Why can't we get along? We have to accept that this is a community, with different people bringing different skills and experiences. Yet 'we', as a community, seem only too content to bicker about things - letting personalities get in the way of progress.It also frustrates me that certain members feel they have certain priviledges, which prompt them to make posts which only serve to highlight their foolishness - and result in this community losing decent, honest, established members. On the subject of Commercial use of the Forums, I have no problems with 'Teaser' shots (of upcoming products), and of course Banners and Press Releases (on the main page), I object to the blatent use of these forums for advertising commercial wares, for two reasons: 1) Where no discernable payment is made ('free' advertising), and 2) Where certain companies choose to ignore, or worse, abuse potential customers. It doesn't take a Marketing Guru to figure out that such behaviour doesn't help customer goodwill and loyalty.On a more general point, can we have some order please? It seems like every other post is a potential flame-war. As others have said, real work gets done at other forums - that's the result of the continual in-fighting here. Decent moderating is one part, and I know SSW and Macster do their best, but so is discretion, sense, reason and calm from us all.It's only a game!Cheers,
Matt

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I've already locked this twice, yet it keeps getting unlocked.So I'm trying again.Locked for the third time.Bradley Linda
Waco, Texas

TKW Paint Shop

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