Gibson Yards

Are there any routes in existence that have captured
what is now IHB (Indiana Harbor Belt) Gibson Yards??I grew up about six blocks from them in the 40's &
early 50's..Thanks in advance,Butch born in 38

Warren M.

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RE: Gibson Yards, SVTS, Jun-21-04, 12:23 PM, (1) RE: Gibson Yards, Butch38, Jun-21-04, 03:31 PM, (3) RE: Gibson Yards, Butch38, Jun-21-04, 07:01 PM, (7) RE: Gibson Yards, trainmaster_1, Jun-21-04, 07:10 PM, (8) RE: Gibson Yards, SVTS, Jun-21-04, 07:32 PM, (9) RE: Gibson Yards, NW 1218, Jun-21-04, 10:20 PM, (13) RE: Gibson Yards, CPR_Malice_96th, Jun-21-04, 11:56 PM, (14) RE: Gibson Yards, Flash, Jun-22-04, 02:26 AM, (17) RE: Gibson Yards, Butch38, Jun-22-04, 10:20 AM, (18) RE: Gibson Yards, CGW409, Jun-22-04, 05:42 PM, (19) RE: Gibson Yards, Butch38, Jun-22-04, 07:08 PM, (20) RE: Gibson Yards, CGW409, Jun-23-04, 05:28 PM, (21) RE: Gibson Yards, NW 1218, Jun-23-04, 05:50 PM, (22) RE: Gibson Yards, Butch38, Jun-24-04, 02:00 PM, (24) RE: Gibson Yards, CGW409, Jun-24-04, 04:58 PM, (25) RE: Gibson Yards, Butch38, Jun-26-04, 11:51 AM, (26) RE: Gibson Yards, NW 1218, Jun-26-04, 01:08 PM, (27) RE: Gibson Yards, Butch38, Jun-26-04, 03:35 PM, (28) RE: Gibson Yards, CGW409, Jun-26-04, 09:03 PM, (29) RE: Gibson Yards, Butch38, Jun-26-04, 11:42 PM, (30) RE: Gibson Yards, BNSF4999, Jun-23-04, 06:57 PM, (23)

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No.Chris Bogley
Syracuse New York
www.msnusers.com/AshleyPhotography
www.msnusers.com/cnytrainsWholesale Route Sales / Production, Krispy Kreme, Syracuse NYAmtrak "American Eagle" Activity Pack, Summer 2004

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Thanks for the NO's I would say the answer is NO!!Is there a reason the answer is NO???Or is it just NO???Thanks for the No's guys!!Butch38

Warren M.

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Sorry I do apologize I didn't mean to light anyone's fuse.I am newbie on the MSTS and a oldie on EARTH born in 38'..I thank you for your NO answers but was wondering if there
was any reason that such an active yard in the 40's and 50's and maybe
later was a NO NO to route builders -- I surely didn't mean to yank anyone's chain...My Humble apologies to all that previous remark set off.... ?????

Warren M.

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>Sorry I do apologize I didn't mean to light anyone's fuse.
>
>I am newbie on the MSTS and a oldie on EARTH born in 38'..
>
>I thank you for your NO answers but was wondering if there
>was any reason that such an active yard in the 40's and 50's
>and maybe
>later was a NO NO to route builders -- I surely didn't mean
>to yank anyone's chain...
>
>My Humble apologies to all that previous remark set off....
>????? Unless they have not enough sufficent data to build the yard but other times its how large the yard will be and how long it will take it would be glad if someone did it but I guess they wouldn't have the time to do it because of personal things they have to do. But also route builders want to do routes that they feel that they are a customed to and to others when they upload it but I'd say a yard would be good to do for a newbie to start his or her way into building a highly profiled route.Mike
Future CPR Locomotive Engineer

Pontiac Grand Prix GTP - Built For Drivers

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In order for anyone to construct the yards, there would first have to be a route to go with it. Most routes are built by those that either live or have lived in that area. My answer was not meant as anything other than a quick simple answer to a easy question. Chris Bogley
Syracuse New York
www.msnusers.com/AshleyPhotography
www.msnusers.com/cnytrainsWholesale Route Sales / Production, Krispy Kreme, Syracuse NYAmtrak "American Eagle" Activity Pack, Summer 2004

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I know Gibson Yard like the back of my hand. Not a small yard.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim

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Hey Butch,If yuo are scared off by this initial post you made hereDON'T BE !!Everyone here for the most part are good guys trying to help one another.It's nice to have the older folk who didn't have computers when they were young on here with us tooWelcome to the Forums. There may not be exactly what you are looking for in the file library, BUT there is alot ther to offer that will take up plenty of your free time.If you have issues ... feel free to ask.Later

Tim Kent – 96th_Malice - Winnipeg Canada

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>
>I thank you for your NO answers but was wondering if there
>was any reason that such an active yard in the 40's and 50's
>and maybe
>later was a NO NO to route builders -- One consideration for the yard not being recreated would be the present limitations of MSTS. Some routes, because of extensive yards and track, as well as the necessary scenery, bring even powerful computers to their knees in the frames per second area. It is very frustrating to move into an area of a route where there is lots of activity and scenery and the fps become so jerky, you are waiting for Buster Keaton to go by on his speeder. Come to think of it his pictures had better frame rates.

flash@vnerr.com
"Procrastination is the thief of our self-respect. It nags us and spoils our fun.
It deprives us of the fullest realization of our ambitions and hopes."

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>Hey Butch,
>
>If yuo are scared off by this initial post you made here
>
>DON'T BE !!
>
>Everyone here for the most part are good guys trying to help
>one another. I know that to be quite true from past posts -- my start date got changed when I had to ask Nels to reset my password because I apparently forgot the original one <I may be suffering from sometimers>!!>It's nice to have the older folk who didn't have computers
>when they were young on here with us too I was working on computers in the late 50's on paper and have had a computer of one sort or another since the early 60's.. My first PC I purchased was PC's LTD which was PC MAG pick of the year -- 1984 which later became known and DELL COMPUTERS...It is MSTS Trainsim that I am a newbie at -- and I am really enjoying it immensely..>Welcome to the Forums. There may not be exactly what you are
>looking for in the file library, BUT there is alot ther to
>offer that will take up plenty of your free time.
>
>If you have issues ... feel free to ask. If one was to take on building a route such as Gibson Yards do you have to get permission of the Railroad i.e. IHB to use there logo on engines and rolling stock???And are routes made as they look today or as they once were when railroads were plentiful??My biggest problem is that I am ignorant about a lot of things; which is OKAY!!Remember: Ignorance is repairable!! STUPID IS FOREVER!!Butch

Warren M.

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ButchIf one was to take on building a route such as Gibson Yards do you have to get permission of the Railroad i.e. IHB to use there logo on engines and rolling stock???And are routes made as they look today or as they once were when railroads were plentiful??First let me say welcome aboard,now if you are considering yourself to be brave(or crazy )enough to tackle the route editor I'd strongly suggest you head on over to the route builders forum where there's already some anchored posts regarding taking ones first steps in that direction and more than enough of us happy to help you with any of the rough spots as for the second part of your first question(bear in mind I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV)but the general rule of thumb has been distribute free of charge, no but if one wants to make profit then one needs a licence.
Pretty much the one exception is UP and they want you to be licenced even to skin freeware for UP and UP predecessor roads, howsome ever with IHB you should be safe without getting permission as long as you are not selling your reskins.
As to your second question, it really depends on the route and the route creator some create the route as new as yesterday afternoon while others try to represent existing roads as they appeared years ago, Mike Deming recreated the CGW's Eastern(Illinois)division and I'm currently building the old Chicago Aurora & Elgin interurban, Mike rendered his route with a fairly wide timeframe (very late 50's to a post C&NW merger early 70's) while my CA&E is set circa 58 just prior to the end of passenger service now if either of those were modled as they exist today they'd need to be built for Microsoft Bike Trail and Farm Field Simulator(look out, just gave the boys over at KUJU a free idea )Gary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

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Well that PERMISSION with IHB is why IHB isn't represented very much on MSTS -- I inquired a few months back and was turned down..If I were to create such a project I knew I would need some info
from them so before even looking at the tools used for building a route. I called them.. My original question to this thread was just a hope that someone had succeeded in getting permission and included the yard and I just hadn't found that route yet on here...What I don't know is when I was real young was the gibson yard IHB or was it New York Central -- the round house had steam engines in it. I just in awe with them and not what name they bore... And that was the era when most of it wasn't a bike trail (as so well put by CGW409)..Butch

Warren M.

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Ah there's your first mistake,it's easier to ask forgivness than permission that won't preclude others here in the Chitown area from skinning the equipment(particularly those jade green/red lightning stripe SW's)if you still want to take on doing the IHB as a route I'd say go ahead, they don't hold any trademark right to the landscape around them and as far as any particular track arangements that would be offlimits there are several sat photo sites that'll give you the tracks as they exist today and through a little research you should be able to glean enough info to provide the "right" feel for the IHB at the time you wish to model,I know that my CA&E is not 100% accurate but was done with the best info avalble at the time track was laid.
No one is going to give you grief if the route is not 100% spot on and if they do tell them where to stick it.Been awhile since I was down in the area around Gibson but IIRC that is the yard just east of the crossing in Hammond(IIRC) where the PRR,NYC,NKP,Monon,EL and IHB crossed, if that's the case then that yard would have IHB(or at least joint IHB/NYC) the reason for your confusion is (1) IHB was a subsidary of the Central so there would have been some similarities in liveries(the above mentioned lighting stripe switchers)and (2) the Harbor and the Central ran along side each other at that stretch.
Of course if your going to take this route on somebody is going to have to build one of those big bruiser steam switcher on steriods 080's of theirs.Gary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

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Now adays in and around Gibson Yard, the NYC is now CSX and continues east along an IHB branch that is not used much. Going north out of Gibson, the IHB goes up to Calumet Crossing to cross the CSX (x-B&OCT). North of "Cal Tower" is the IHB's final interchange yard with the x-Conrail PRR/NYC mainline which is now NS.
If I am correct, the IHB is owned/shared by a bunch of railroads. In the Gibson Yard area, NS is the dominant road on the IHB.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim

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>>Been awhile since I was down in the area around Gibson but
>IIRC that is the yard just east of the crossing in
>Hammond(IIRC) where the PRR,NYC,NKP,Monon,EL and IHB
>crossed,You sure have my brain smoking here...
I think your referring to Hohman Avenue near State Street; but
I am totally lost with the PRR being there and don't know what the EL is??? The PRR as far as I was aware of had two mains East & West that ran through Indiana Harbor steel mill area and probably had yards up in that vicinity for the steel mills and perhaps the refineries in Whiting.. The crossing at Hohman Monon, NKP, NYC, IHB and I think EJ&E had a track through there -- I am smoking my memory cells trying to remember where the B&O went once it got through Highland headed for Chicago.. <frown>....
> if that's the case then that yard would have IHB(or
>at least joint IHB/NYC) the reason for your confusion is (1)
>IHB was a subsidary of the Central so there would have been
and they used to reference Michigan Central in articles..I grew up in Hessville and the IHB had a Olive diesel with a Orange Stripe -- I just looked at there home page -- and they are showing the colors of what was the EJ&E almost now -- that orange must have ran.... LOL...Butch akaWarren M.

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Warren
You got it Hohman Av was what I was thinking of.
I'm also taxing my memory banks here as well since the last time I was in the Homan area was the late 80's but IIRC that was near the end of the PRR/NYC's "raceway"(or possibly part of the Panhandle divison) out of Chicago so pretty much the PRR,NYC(and possibly NYC's Michigan Central subsidiary)and IHB all ran alongside one another at that point, NKP came in from the east and curved northwest crossing the PRR,NYC and IHB at Homan, the Erie Lakawana(Erie I think prior to the 64 merger)ran in from the south east but was nothing but a weed grown ROW during my visits to Homan and the Monon came in from a more southern approach but ran along the NKP,EL through the junction but was also abandoned by the time of my visits(L&N had a derailment that took out a drawbridge over a canal just NW of the junction and at least back in the 80's the remains of the bridge were still there)but the rails and diamonds for both Monon and EL were still in the street(though probably gone now that Homan Av crosses the whole mess on an overpass as of the early 90's).Trains magazine had an article on the Harbor in the early to mid 80's so I do remember seeing the olive and orange livery in pictures and since we have relitives that we'd visit in Hickory Hills IL(I 294 and the IHB and B&OCT behind the house)most of my memories of the Harbor are of black dip job switchers and jade green coupola hacks and the jade and red switchers are a very dim memory as they were on their way out when I was but a very,very young boy.Gary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

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What does IIRC stand for??I was doing some web surfing in that area and also sent a email to my sister who lives in a little town called Griffith; for it is in that town that has a set of tracks that come out at Hohman ave crossing that I don't know what rail line it was -- I have 3 different responses so far <grin> B&O, Eire Lackawana or Grand Trunk -- If IIRC has anything to do with Illinois then it wasn't present at Hohman avenue -- but six blocks West of that location is the Indiana/Illinois State Line..Warren M.

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Griffith holds Griffith Crossing which is the CN (x-Grand Trunk) crossing at grade with the EJ&E.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.freewebs.com/klwtrainsim

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>Griffith holds Griffith Crossing which is the CN (x-Grand
>Trunk) crossing at grade with the EJ&E. The town was once an interchange point for five railroads - the Michigan Central, Erie, Grand Trunk, Elgin Joliet & Eastern, and the Chesapeake & Ohio. Just found the above at
http://www.lakenetnwi.net/org/griffithhistsoc/hist.htmWish I knew what all them Acronyms aka Mnemonics are that you folks spout meant i.e. NS, CSX, B&OCT -- is there a glossary that has them spelled out somewhere??It is like the automobile thing -- when I was a kid (easier back then all of them were made in the USA) I knew the mfg of every vehicle I saw on the road -- not anymore though...
Warren M.

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Warren
My apologies I sometimes forget not everyone is familiar with someof the internet shorthand.IIRC If I Recall Correctly
Some others
LOL Laughing Out Loud
IMOHO In My Own Humble Opinion
That's all I can think of at the momentGary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

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>IIRC If I Recall Correctly
>Some others
>LOL Laughing Out Loud
>IMOHO In My Own Humble Opinion
>That's all I can think of at the moment
ROTFLMBOI was thinking it was something like Illinois/Illiana Railroad Commuter or something... LOLThanks for response Warren M.

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The biggest lines having partial ownership of IHB if i remember correctly are these: Union Pacific, CSX, CP (Soo Line). There may be more, but i remember hearing those three more than any others.
Of course, none of them want to pay for anything on the IHB and this is the reason why the track, especially from Franklin park south to Bedford Park and from Chicago Ridge on east is for the lack of a better term very rough. Last I heard CP had finally had enough of the bad track and is planning on paying for upgrades. But when you have 15mph crossovers on a three track line in lagrange for example, you get an idea of what this road is like. seeing auto trains go over the sharp switches is kind of cool though....
Kevin V.
-President/CEO of Illinois Northern Ry Inc, subsidiary of The Midwest Regional Railways Corp.

Ohio Southern is on the way...coming when I get sick of the IN!

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