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"Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years"

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EMDMac70 (44 posts)
Jan-19-02, 07:57 PM (EST) "Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years" Railroads block potential strike by engineers
CHICAGO -- Major U.S. railroads have won a court order to block a strike by
train engineers who protested a plan to assign freight-car switching work to
a rival union, a wire service reports. The Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers said their contract was violated when
railroads selected the United Transportation Union to switch freight cars
between trains by remote control instead of engineers. A strike could have
shut railroads that carried more than 26 million shipments last year,
disrupting manufacturing and food production during a U.S. recession. U.S. District Court Judge Joan Gottschall granted an injunction sought by
Union Pacific Corp., Burlington Northern and Santa Fe Corp., CSX Corp. and
Norfolk Southern Corp. The railroads plan to use remote control this year to
save as much as $250 million by eliminating jobs, analysts estimate. The ruling "is only one step in a very long process," Morgan Stanley Dean
Witter analyst James Valentine said. "It's a step in the right direction, but
it doesn't get us closure on remote control, and it doesn't give us closure
on the contract negotiations." The National Railway Labor Conference, which negotiates contracts on behalf
of the four railroads, declined to comment. The engineers union didn't
immediately comment. The engineers said in court proceedings that they planned a strike when the
other union's members began using remote-control switching, the ruling said.
Railroads said the contract lets them make agreements for new technology with
a union other than engineers. The rails' bargaining unit and the United Transport Union released a joint
statement after the court ruling saying they have agreed to start using
remote control in pilot projects while terms for wider use are set. The
statement said talks would cover issues such as safety, pay, training and
severance terms for workers who lose jobs. Kansas City Southern Industries, owner of the fifth- largest U.S.-owned
railroad, has bought 50 remote controls, making the company the largest user
of the technology, spokesman Bill Galligan said. Training classes will begin
Monday, and the first equipment will be used two weeks later in Kansas City,
the company's headquarters.
Wednesday, January 16, 2002 Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Railroading is going to get ugl... jeffmorris Jan-20-02 1 RE: Railroading is going to get ugl... sd90mac Jan-20-02 2 RE: Railroading is going to get ugl... jeffmorris Jan-20-02 3 RE: Railroading is going to get ugl... sd90mac Jan-20-02 4 RE: Railroading is going to get ugl... jeffmorris Jan-21-02 5 RE: Railroading is going to get ugl... EMDMac70 Jan-21-02 6 RE: Railroading is going to get ugl... dvdhoven Jan-21-02 7 RE: Railroading is going to get ugl... kenm62 Jan-21-02 8 RE: Railroading is going to get ugl... akochan Jan-21-02 9 RE: Railroading is going to get ugl... EMDMac70 Jan-21-02 10 RE: Railroading is going to get ugl... SHEPLEY1935 Jan-22-02 11 RE: Railroading is going to get ugl... SHEPLEY1935 Jan-22-02 12

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jeffmorris (459 posts)
Jan-20-02, 06:18 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years" How can railroads switch cars using remote control? Who will couple and uncouple the cars, and connect and disconnect the air brake lines? How can the person using the remote control see what's going on in the yard? Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sd90mac (95 posts)
Jan-20-02, 06:28 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years" Jeffrey:It is the Switchmen and Brakemen that would be using the remote control packs. They would be doing the switching and the running of the locomotive.TAP
Locomotive Engineer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (459 posts)
Jan-20-02, 06:36 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years" If the Switchmen and Brakemen are controlling the locomotives using remote control, will someone be in the cab to take control of the locomotive in case of emergency? Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
sd90mac (95 posts)
Jan-20-02, 07:42 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years" U.S. District Court Judge Joan Gottschall granted an injunction sought by
Union Pacific Corp., Burlington Northern and Santa Fe Corp., CSX Corp. and
Norfolk Southern Corp. The railroads plan to use remote control this year to
save as much as $250 million by eliminating jobs, analysts estimate.The key terrible word here is "eliminating jobs". Does that answer your question Jeffrey?TAP
Locomotive Engineer Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (459 posts)
Jan-21-02, 05:10 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years" A few years ago, NYCTA tried to use one-man trains instead of two-men trains to save money and wound up using one-man trains on shuttles. They also tried to close token booths and sell MetroCards from vending machines to save money but a court blocked them. BMT also tried to use one-man trains before World War II but the unions blocked them. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
EMDMac70 (44 posts)
Jan-21-02, 08:16 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years" the whole reason I said ugly is because Lives will be lost because of this. Someone is going to run over themself and die. I believe you will see something like "postal" too. Its hard not to think that if they take food off of their employee's kids tables so they can increase their multi million dollar stock bonus, I hope the railroads loose big time on this. Csx is starting today Monday the 21st in Florida they are going to give it a try. They bought 200 of these belt pacs. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dvdhoven (479 posts)
Jan-21-02, 12:21 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years" Hi,Here in the Netherlands, this is common practice for several years.
Sometimes only an engineer goes on duty with a loco and a remote control. He does all the duties, switching, coupling, uncoupling, brake proofing, etc.And yes somewhat more then a year ago such engineer was hit by his own loco.The remote boxes has an emergency button and some savety in case someone falls, but there is nobody in the cab.Dick van den Hoven
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kenm62 (187 posts)
Jan-21-02, 04:17 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years" It sounds like they're turning the railroad into a giant HO layout (with DCC). Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
akochan (391 posts)
Jan-21-02, 04:51 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years" LAST EDITED ON Jan-21-02 AT 04:52 PM (EST)Actually it's so much like that so when Railfans are talking about remote controls and you walk into the middle of the conversation it's hard to tell if they're talking about real operations or their layout. Seriously though, this is going to be a messy set of strikes or negotiations, and has been brewing both there and in other yards and companies for years now. When two unions compete against each other for members with neither giving ground towards a potential merger it's never pretty. And it sadly gives management a big upperhand if there are management vs union negotiations underway because management will just play them against each other.-Andy (son of a labor relations mediator)
akochan@crosswinds.net Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
EMDMac70 (44 posts)
Jan-21-02, 11:32 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years" the biggest reason why the utu and the ble never merged because of the fat checks everyone was going to recieve. Twice the pay was the biggest yearly pay and $800,000 a year for retirement? they need to be a union and not make it such a money hungry buiseness. Granted both unions suck and neither one of them get much in the end. I believe you are going to see some real fighting now, blood shed if I must say and it wont be for the unions either. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SHEPLEY1935 (158 posts)
Jan-22-02, 08:29 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years" LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-02 AT 08:37 AM (EST)When I first started my RR career my job (fireman) was eliminated
and I still spent 40 years in the industry so the coming of other operating technologies does not necessarily spell doom and gloom!I take NO exception to the criticism of the long standing Love Hate relationship between management and contract employees as, in many cases, it has been detrimental to both sides. The top down style of management has stiffled many good ideas generated
at the bottom. Union intransigence has been equally stiffling!The take over problems experienced by the UP/SP and CSX/NS Conrail mergers are proof positive that management is mediocre at best! Union personnel had best accept the fact that stock holders, who deserve a return on their investment, are often hurt as much as
non management employees by the Jules Verne schemes dreamed up at the head offices.When inexperienced finance people and lawyers pushed out experienced railroad operating people and took over management
the problems worsened...thats historical fact!So much for my yearly tirade!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don Shepley=ChicagoPS: Somewhere in my archives I have saved my withdrawal cards form the long gone trainmen and firemans unions...Been there and done that! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SHEPLEY1935 (158 posts)
Jan-22-02, 08:40 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Railroading is going to get ugly in the next one to five years" LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-02 AT 08:42 AM (EST)jeffmoris,
The Chicago Transit Authority has done both with some success! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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